Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Tucson gun store owner halts purchase of semiautomatic rifle by Kelly
Arizona Daily Star ^ | Carmen Duarte

Posted on 03/26/2013 6:16:04 AM PDT by SandRat

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-70 next last

1 posted on 03/26/2013 6:16:05 AM PDT by SandRat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SandRat

Kelly was probably going to use it to kill baby seals anyway (before handing it over to the cops, of course!)


2 posted on 03/26/2013 6:21:18 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Democrats: Robbing Peter to buy Paul's vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

So Kelley was on record he was going to be a straw buyer?


3 posted on 03/26/2013 6:22:31 AM PDT by Sybeck1 (What has the GOP done today to gain your support in 2014?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sybeck1

Sounds like a “yes”. “Are you the ultimate recipient of the gun?” Lying on the 4473 is a felony - at least when us peasants do it.


4 posted on 03/26/2013 6:23:52 AM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

so he was purchasaing the firearm under false pretenses...


5 posted on 03/26/2013 6:25:18 AM PDT by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sybeck1

Who would bring charges ATF? Cool.


6 posted on 03/26/2013 6:26:05 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Sybeck1

No. He was going to buy the gun and “gift” it. Perfectly legal.


7 posted on 03/26/2013 6:26:14 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

So my mom can do that so the rest of the family don’t get in the database?


8 posted on 03/26/2013 6:27:13 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SandRat
Kelly could not be reached for comment.

He was on a baby seal hunt in California with his attack dog.

9 posted on 03/26/2013 6:27:54 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: listenhillary

Kelly, AKA the lying, straw gun buying Seal killer.


10 posted on 03/26/2013 6:28:04 AM PDT by DAC21
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: camle

The article says he hoped the Police Dept could raffle it off to generate funds. That means that bad ugly gun would still end up in the hands of some citizen. Does that make sense to anyone else?

Plain and simple, he got caught and then didn’t think out his cover story.


11 posted on 03/26/2013 6:29:02 AM PDT by Josa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

and you believe that?


12 posted on 03/26/2013 6:29:17 AM PDT by roofgoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Gifting still means you are not the ultimate owner.


13 posted on 03/26/2013 6:29:21 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Happy Hunger Games! May the odds be ever in your favor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: BipolarBob

You buy a gun and give it to your kid. Are you a straw buyer? No. Give it to someone else? No.


14 posted on 03/26/2013 6:31:23 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: roofgoat

You don’t?


15 posted on 03/26/2013 6:31:55 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Josa

well it’s a good thing that the shiop owner took the initiative. makes all gunshop operators look good.


16 posted on 03/26/2013 6:32:00 AM PDT by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SandRat
"MacKinlay also said that his gun store will make a $1,295 contribution, the selling price of the assault rifle, to the National Rifle Association's Eddie Eagle GunSafe Program, which teaches gun safety to children."

Ooooooh that ones gonna get their panties in a twist!

17 posted on 03/26/2013 6:35:11 AM PDT by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DAC21

So let’s sum up Captain Kelly’s last few weeks...

He arranges to buy what he would call an assault rifle, then is busted by another gun store customer for hypocrisy. He then defends himself by asserting that he was engaging in a straw purchase with the unnamed intended recipient being the Tucson PD.

Now he’s out on a walk with his daughter and a pit bull. The dog attacks and kills a protected animal.

Act three has to involve a diaper drive.


18 posted on 03/26/2013 6:39:35 AM PDT by vrwconspiracist (The Tax Man cometh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

you got to be kidding? He got caught, then backtracked.

Also, he wants to show how easy it is, right? Didn’t he buy a used rifle?

If so, used means 20 day wait in AZ I believe. Maybe I’m wrong on AZ gun laws.

So he wants to show how easy it is to get an AR and he goes for the a gun that takes an extra 20 days. That is not the definition of easy.


19 posted on 03/26/2013 6:40:33 AM PDT by roofgoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

Geez, these guys at this newspaper are failing at their job. They only call this AR-15 an assault rifle twice in the whole article.


20 posted on 03/26/2013 6:43:07 AM PDT by rocksblues
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SandRat
I've followed this a little, here on FR. Key statement is thus....

When the purchase became public earlier this month

IMHO, this situation is akin to a bank robber getting caught, handing back the money, and saying "Great Job!! I was just testing out your security...."

Amazing what a little light does for the roaches.

21 posted on 03/26/2013 6:44:48 AM PDT by wbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

It’s still a straw man purchase and illegal. The law doesn’t differentiate. The dealer did the right thing. FFL holders can get in big trouble even with paperwork errors.


22 posted on 03/26/2013 6:44:52 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: roofgoat
Back up a little, cowboy. I am responding to the issue of whether buying a gun and turning it over to the authorities makes you a "straw buyer" in the eyes of the law. It doesn't.

I'm not discussing Kelly's justification at all. False or not, it is not relevant.

23 posted on 03/26/2013 6:44:53 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

Perhaps he will be found guilty of killing a marine mammal by use of a dog which is probably a felony. That would prevent Mr Kelly from having to worry about how easy it is for him to buy a gun. He would also no longer have to worry about being shot...into space.


24 posted on 03/26/2013 6:46:07 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: meatloaf
It’s still a straw man purchase and illegal.

That's what the bloggers say. Funny, they can't cite to the law.

25 posted on 03/26/2013 6:46:28 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SandRat
My goodness, one of the majority of ethical firearms retailers cancels the attempted straw purchase of a firearm by a disreputable socialist Demorat tool.

Who woulda thought?

Just every firearms salesman I know of, for the last 25 years.

26 posted on 03/26/2013 6:51:22 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: roofgoat

Also, regarding his motive. Maybe by some chance he was trying to show how easy it is (which that motive dies if he did in fact buy used). You still have to fill out a form that gets sent to the Feds for a background check, NICS.

So does Mark think we should double the NICS check, add a Super NICS check because the first check is a little on the weak side.


27 posted on 03/26/2013 6:52:56 AM PDT by roofgoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Sybeck1
So Kelley was on record he was going to be a straw buyer?

Absolutely!

He committed a felony by attempting to make a "Straw Man" purchase.

He should be prosecuted for lying on his ATF Form 4473.

Here is the applicable question on the form:

(ATF Form 4473) Firearms Transaction Record Part I - Over The Counter

11. Answer questions 11.a. (see exceptions) through 11.l. and 12 (if applicable) by checking or marking “yes” or “no” in the boxes to the right of the questions.

1. Transferee’s Full Name

a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?

Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.

I certify that my answers to Section A are true, correct, and complete. I have read and understand the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on ATF Form 4473. I understand that answering “yes” to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law. I understand that a person who answers “yes” to any of the questions 11.b. through 11.k. is prohibited from purchasing or receiving a firearm. I understand that a person who answers “yes” to question 11.l. is prohibited from purchasing or receiving a firearm, unless the person also answers “Yes” to question 12. I also understand that making any fals e oral or written statement, or exhibiting any false or misrepresented identification with respect to this transaction, is a crime punish able as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law. I further understand that the repetitive purchase of firearms for the purpose of resale for livelihood and profit without a Federal firearms license is a violation of law (See Instructions for Question 16)


28 posted on 03/26/2013 6:54:11 AM PDT by Iron Munro (Welcome to Obama-Land - EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Cowboy Bob
Kelly was probably going to use it to kill baby seals anyway (before handing it over to the cops, of course!)

Using guns on baby seals doesn't seem all that sporting. You hunt them like a British fox hunt with dogs chasing the seals.

Tally ho!

29 posted on 03/26/2013 6:54:46 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
Be careful with that. I got a gun as a gift. I still had to go through NICS. Look at the BATF form 4473 carefully.

Could be a technicality. I have to double check the statutes and regs.

30 posted on 03/26/2013 6:58:52 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922


31 posted on 03/26/2013 7:07:46 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Darren McCarty

Darren, don’t waste your time. Kelly got caught and is a liar. But rules are for peons (or conservatives).

Look at the NBC clown David Gregory. Waves an AK mag that is illegal in DC. Rules do not apply for the elite.

DC Atty General stated - prosecution would not promote public safety in the District of Columbia nor serve the best interests of the people of the District to whom this office owes its trust.


32 posted on 03/26/2013 7:12:38 AM PDT by roofgoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Darren McCarty; 1rudeboy
Likely Kelly would be toast for any Federal prosecutor that would care to shaft him.

Gifts to non prohibited immediate family members are tolerated, but that must be the intent. Kelly has provided ample public evidence that his intent was to transfer to a non immediate family member to defeat the law.

In short, Kelly premeditated intent to commit a firearm transfer felony (for political purposes), not to buy a gift for a child or spouse under his guardianship and instruction.

A proper jury would send him to prison on his own words, while giving a pass to a father buying a 22 rifle for his 12 year old.

33 posted on 03/26/2013 7:20:47 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: meatloaf
Ok, now direct me to the "false" part of it. Note: Mr. Kelly's justification, even if he made it after he was busted, is not false in the eyes of the law. It is false because we claim it is. Big difference.
34 posted on 03/26/2013 7:24:34 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SandRat

Arizona and Texas will be the foundation of a new Constitutional United States of America.


35 posted on 03/26/2013 7:25:32 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
In this case he said he was buying it for somebody else BEFORE he bought it. We have two sets of laws to consder ~ AZ and US. Somewhere in there is the idea that you can't go around acting as a straw purchaser ~ and some have noted the law ~ which law? ~ says you may buy for personal use ~ but isn't this what ATF was killing hundreds of Mexicans by doing?

I think Kelly is showing us that existing laws, rarely enforced against high ranked politicians, do keep straw purchasers from using loopholes to buy firearms for other than personal use.

36 posted on 03/26/2013 7:28:59 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Brooklyn Attitude

So, two felonies in just a month ~ violating federal gun laws AND killing a protected species with a dog ~ ONE MORE and this dude best hope he’s not in California when he does it.


37 posted on 03/26/2013 7:30:55 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: roofgoat
But rules are for peons (or conservatives).

Rules do not apply for the elite.

You got that right, America has lost the Rule of Law for decades, now.

38 posted on 03/26/2013 7:32:21 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
My reading of the statute leads me to believe that, unless Kelly made his "false" statement with the intent to transfer the firearm to someone who legally cannot possess it, then there is no violation.
39 posted on 03/26/2013 7:33:18 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

look at post 28. The form is part of the law.


40 posted on 03/26/2013 7:34:42 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: roofgoat

I just posted a copy of the law which applies for those who don’t believe a law exists.


41 posted on 03/26/2013 7:37:17 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Sybeck1
So Kelley was on record he was going to be a straw buyer?

Only armed with the facts given to-date, that would certainly appear to be what happened. HE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED FOR TRYING TO BE A PROPAGANDA MINISTER FOR THE GUN GRABBERS.
42 posted on 03/26/2013 7:38:58 AM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

“So, two felonies in just a month ~ violating federal gun laws AND killing a protected species with a dog ~ ONE MORE and this dude best hope he’s not in California when he does it.”

Too bad liberal darlings rarely get convicted or even charged with crimes the rest of us would be crucified for.


43 posted on 03/26/2013 7:41:22 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

I just bought a raffle ticket from the local NRA that gives me the opportunity to win a M4. Is the NRA a “straw buyer?” If not, why not?


44 posted on 03/26/2013 7:42:03 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Read the terms and conditions carefully.


45 posted on 03/26/2013 7:43:40 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

I did, but thanks.


46 posted on 03/26/2013 7:44:41 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Cowboy Bob

Come on, we all know you use little clubs to kill baby seals. You don’t want to put holes in their teeny tiny little pelts.


47 posted on 03/26/2013 7:49:49 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

rude, debate all you want about legality and intentions. I could care less the legal aspect.

Mark said he wanted to show how easy it was to get an AR. His choice of purchase was anything but easy. It was one of the hardest way to get one fast, he bought used and had to wait.

That’s like saying I want to show how easy it is to buy an “evil assault rifle” so I choose to buy an AR with a silencer.

OK fine, it’s yours. Except you have to apply and pay for a special Fed Stamp. How easy, 90-120 day wait?


48 posted on 03/26/2013 7:55:14 AM PDT by roofgoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I would say it all hinged on if he declared, at the time of purchase, that he was not purchasing the gun for himself.

Appears to me he didn't and that is the grounds for the gun shop canceling the order.

49 posted on 03/26/2013 8:00:25 AM PDT by CAluvdubya (Molon Labe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I won a gun once before. Once I won it, I had to pick it up at an FFL in Hastings and go through the NICS check.

If it goes through an FFL and the receiver goes through NICS, it's not a straw purchaser.

50 posted on 03/26/2013 8:02:20 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-70 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson