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Gay Is Not All in the Genes
http://news.sciencemag.org ^ | 30 June 2008 | by Michael Balter

Posted on 03/28/2013 8:33:24 AM PDT by Maelstorm

Why are some people gay? Most researchers who study sexual orientation think that both genetic and environmental factors play a role, but the relative contributions of each remain unclear. A new study of Swedish twins reinforces earlier findings that environmental influences--including the environment in the womb--may play a greater role than genes.

Scientists studying complex human behaviors often turn to twin studies. Researchers look at both identical and fraternal twins to see how often they share a trait--a parameter called concordance. The greater the concordance among genetically identical twins compared with fraternal twins--who share only half of their genes--the more likely that genetic factors are involved.

Earlier twin studies of sexual orientation have suggested varying degrees of genetic and environmental influences. But they have suffered from the limitations typical of all twin studies. These include small sample sizes and assumptions that identical and fraternal twins both have the same family environments; if identical twins are treated more similarly by their parents than fraternal twins, for example, this could be mistaken for a genetic influence. Recruitment biases are also an issue: Some studies have enlisted participants who openly identify themselves as gay, who may not be typical of the entire homosexual population.

To try to get around these problems, a team led by Niklas Langström, a psychiatrist at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, recruited subjects from the Swedish Twin Registry, the world's largest. All 43,808 twins born in Sweden between 1959 and 1985 were invited to participate in a Web-based survey that comprised a wide range of questions about personal behaviors and experiences. The team ended up with a sample of 3826 twin pairs, of which 2320 were identical and 1506 fraternal. Of that sample, roughly 5% of men and 8% of women reported sexual activity with a member of the same sex at least once during their lifetimes. Then they plugged the survey responses into a standard mathematical model for comparing identical and fraternal twins.

The results, published online this month in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, confirm earlier findings that identical twins are more concordant for same-sex behaviors than fraternal twins are but only modestly so: In men, genetic effects appeared to explain 34% to 39% of the differences between the two twin groups, whereas in women, genetics accounted for only about 18% to 19% of the difference--a finding consistent with other research showing that sexual orientation in women is not as rigidly determined as it is in men.

As for what environmental factors might be at play, the authors point out that these might not be entirely social but could also be biological. For example, some studies have suggested that exposure to prenatal hormones or even the mother's immune system could influence the sexual development of a fetus.

J. Michael Bailey, a psychologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, who led earlier twin studies of sexual orientation, calls the new study "good, important, and one unlikely to be bettered in the near future." But Jonathan Beckwith, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, says that the new work fails to overcome a number of problems faced by previous twin studies. He notes that the final sample included only 12% of the males in the Swedish registry, leaving open the possibility of recruitment bias. And Beckwith says that the failure to control for family environment could inflate estimates of genetic influence.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gay; gaygene; genes; genetics; homosexualagenda; scotus; sourcetitlenoturl; ssm
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I think this adds a very important context to the whole gay marriage debate. Too many "conservatives" are relenting on the "born this way" bs. There may be propensity for any number of behaviors but just because there is a propensity does not mean one should gravitate to a "biological natural state". The whole of human civilization has been built not on striving to affirm an animal nature but to exceed it.
1 posted on 03/28/2013 8:33:24 AM PDT by Maelstorm
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To: Maelstorm

Some people are born with a propensity to kill. We call them sociopaths.

Predisposition is something we fight with Civilization.

Whether we think civilization can accept or must reject homosexuality (much less the “marriage” of gays) is a crap-shoot.

But let’s not suppose that just because someone is born with a predisposition it makes it incumbent upon Governments to validate their predisposition as a right.

I have a predisposition to molest most attractive women I see. I don’t get to. Tough luck! And, even if they were willing, I oughtn’t. And I shouldn’t be allowed by government to marry 8 of them, even if they all agreed.

I know one thing: G-d WILL sort this out. You place your bets and you takes your chances.


2 posted on 03/28/2013 8:40:24 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Due Process 2013: "Burn the M*****-F***er Down!")
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To: Maelstorm

I have noticed that many gays were molested or horribly abused in their young or teenage years. Also have noticed that many that lost their mother, either died or left, when young turned queer. IMHO, about 99% enviromental.

Which means that it IS treatable.


3 posted on 03/28/2013 8:40:26 AM PDT by ohiobuckeye1997
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To: ohiobuckeye1997

I’ve noticed the same thing, there always seems to be something deep and dark in their past. Or, some were drama queens to begin with, so some things became even more significant in their eyes, leading to their lifestyle choice.


4 posted on 03/28/2013 8:43:29 AM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: Maelstorm; longtermmemmory; Gilbo_3; cradle of freedom; posterchild; BillyBoy; Impy
This is the right argument but I am afraid too late.
This argument needed to be made strongly about 10 years ago when GWB was POTUS, and kept up over time.

HERE :
If they are not born with these desires then how do their (un-natural) desires acquired in their life become their new (legitimate) constitutional rights that redefine centuries old traditional marriage regardless of voters opposition?

This is an argument I pose at young people,
I dont tell them its Biblical sinning because they will naturally just blow that off. For most of them Obama's word trumps the Bible's word.

5 posted on 03/28/2013 8:43:30 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Maelstorm

A friend of my husbands is a twin. He is ‘gay’ and his brother is heterosexual.

The gay twin grew up as a heterosexual, married, had children. Then decided at some point he was not happy and was gay, divorced, moved to San Jose with a homosexual other, and now lives a totally liberal lifestyle. Claims his being married has not hurt anyone, forgetting what he did to his wife and two little girls. He still sees them, they are of course expected to accept his new lifestyle. He feels he is a good father.


6 posted on 03/28/2013 8:44:37 AM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: Maelstorm

Is there such a thing as a “gay gene”?

If so, isn’t it a genetic defect?


7 posted on 03/28/2013 8:44:49 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: BenLurkin
Is there such a thing as a “gay gene”?

NO

8 posted on 03/28/2013 8:46:56 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

During pride week in Chicago I’ve seen some of the woman. Some of these chicks are brutes. Big shoulders, necks, thick backs.....combine that with men’s clothing, facial hair and homade tattoos. Something..I don’t know is really off.


9 posted on 03/28/2013 8:47:42 AM PDT by Blackirish (Forward Comrades!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Maelstorm

“Most researchers who study sexual orientation think that both genetic..”

The same folks that defend evolution with all of their might, seem to believe that a “gene” that CAN NOT procreate has somehow survived their millions of years of evolving.


10 posted on 03/28/2013 8:49:36 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

First of all, God made them.


11 posted on 03/28/2013 8:49:49 AM PDT by DooDahhhh
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To: Maelstorm

Let’s assume for a minute that gays are indeed “Born that way.”
God knows the cause, whether it is genetic or environmental, and He still said “Do not practice homosexuality.” In God’s eyes the cause is irrelevant. The Sodom and Gomorrah narrative strongly suggests peer pressure was involved.
BTW my oldest daughter is gay and the only “trauma” in her life is that her father and I divorced when she was four because he abused me.


12 posted on 03/28/2013 8:53:41 AM PDT by Wiser now (Socialism does not eliminate poverty, it guarantees it.)
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To: Maelstorm
Gay Is Not All in the Genes

ACTUALLY:

'Gay' Is ALL In The Jeans

It is all about the sexual activity -that IS the only differentiator.

13 posted on 03/28/2013 9:01:17 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Maelstorm

“may play a greater role than genes”

Most certainly, because genes don’t play a role.


14 posted on 03/28/2013 9:01:31 AM PDT by jagusafr (the American Trinity (Liberty, In G0D We Trust, E Pluribus Unum))
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To: Beowulf9
A friend of my husbands is a twin. He is ‘gay’ and his brother is heterosexual.

The gay twin grew up as a heterosexual, married, had children. Then decided at some point he was not happy and was gay, divorced, moved to San Jose with a homosexual other, and now lives a totally liberal lifestyle. Claims his being married has not hurt anyone, forgetting what he did to his wife and two little girls. He still sees them, they are of course expected to accept his new lifestyle. He feels he is a good father.

Your anecdote sums up the fact that some people think that a fulfilling sex life is actually a right. It is a mark of immaturity and irresponsibility IMO when people behave in the way you described. Throughout our lives, we are faced with temptations and choices. Many people (both homo and hetero) make the wrong decisions based on what "makes them happy". For instance, a man may leave his wife of many years and marry his cute secretary. He doesn't "need" to do this. But he yields to his baser instincts and does it anyway.

In college, I was a theater major and was around a lot of homosexuals. A more sex-obsessed bunch you will never see. Of course we heterosexual guys were trying to score with cute the cute girls as well. We had to jump through all the hoops most guys do - take them out, buy them presents, etc. The gays just seemed to meet and immediately decide to have sex. A young and inexperienced guy could get sexual experience really fast by joining the gay clique. I saw several young fellows get snapped up by the gays almost on arrival on campus. I only know of one of those young fellows that left the gay lifestyle. He ended up marrying one of the more attractive girls and having kids.

The explosion of acceptance of homosexuality grows to a great extent out of the idea that a person has the right to be sexually satisfied all the days of his/her life.

15 posted on 03/28/2013 9:04:09 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Maelstorm

A gene that doesn’t propagate the species?

I wonder how THAT ONE evolved!


16 posted on 03/28/2013 9:06:07 AM PDT by papertyger (It's only "hate" if you're conservative.)
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To: Wiser now

um... that’s pretty tramatic.


17 posted on 03/28/2013 9:07:31 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Sans-Culotte
The explosion of acceptance of homosexuality grows to a great extent out of the idea that a person has the right to be sexually satisfied all the days of his/her life.

Actually, I think it grew out of the de facto "ad campaign" we've been subjected to for decades by the "arts crowd's" ugly sister (i.e. mainstream media).

18 posted on 03/28/2013 9:12:37 AM PDT by papertyger (It's only "hate" if you're conservative.)
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To: Maelstorm

I believe I read this article in 1977 when my younger brother came out as gay to the family.

So in 35 years will hundreds of millions spent on 1% of our society - we appear to have learned nothing.


19 posted on 03/28/2013 9:12:37 AM PDT by edcoil (If the man was accused of leadership, there would not be enough evidence to convict him.)
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To: Blackirish

“I’ve seen some of the woman. Some of these chicks are brutes.”

Right, and I think many of them, just because they aren’t very attractive to men, gravitate towards lesbianism. They don’t look manly because they have a gay gene; they became gay because they look manly and couldn’t attract a man.


20 posted on 03/28/2013 9:15:13 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Blackirish

they mostl ikely are takign steroids to be more manly looking


21 posted on 03/28/2013 9:17:40 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Maelstorm
There's another thread, "Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids".

We may get more data on what happens to kids raised by gay adoptive parents, once there are more gay adoptions. (Or we may not, if the study results prove too controversial).

22 posted on 03/28/2013 9:19:48 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Maelstorm

Living in California I have the privilege of being around a greater % of homosexuals. All kidding aside, there is one trait that I’ve noticed for almost every homosexual/lesbian I’ve met. Their families had an extremely dominant mother and a very passive father. The “man of the house” was the mother and she pressed her control very hard. It is interesting that the feminist movement contains that same paradigm.


23 posted on 03/28/2013 9:22:01 AM PDT by Son-Joshua (son-joshua)
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To: Wiser now

This is a very good point- God also told peopel not to hjave relations before marrriage- and htose that don’t, are OBEYING Him, while htose that do are DISOBEYING Him- they are makign a conscious choice to DISOBEY God- Heteros aren’t ‘born that way’ They are born with desires true or rather develope desires later on through hormone icnreases- but they are NOT born to act on those desires- they CHOOSE to act opn those desires- to DISOBEY God - Same hting with peopel who VAIOLATE God’s word by feedign hteir horniness in unnatural ways- they FEED their devient desires until it takes cotnrol of them- they becoem slaves to their desires and to their unwillingness to control those desires

This ‘gay gene’ hypothesis is pure crap- Nuns and many priests go through life without ever havign relations because htey MAKE A CHOICE to do what they think God wants of them proving once and for all peopel CAN control their desiresw whether natural or unnatural, but that some folks REFUSE to cotnrol their desires and conscously choose to DISOBEY God and live in sin


24 posted on 03/28/2013 9:24:33 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Maelstorm; P-Marlowe
Even if, and I doubt it, there is a component of genetics involved in homosexuality, then as I understand it, there is also a biological propensity to alcoholism:

From the National Institutes of Health (NIH):

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa60.htm Research has shown conclusively that familial transmission of alcoholism risk is at least in part genetic and not just the result of family environment (1). The task of current science is to identify what a person inherits that increases vulnerability to alcoholism and how inherited factors interact with the environment to cause disease.

And with addiction in general:

They add to evidence that individual differences in the quality and quantity of brain connections make pleiotropic contributions to individual differences in vulnerability to addictions and to related brain disorders and phenotypes http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18991966

And with introversion:

Consistent with GWA results, we found that BDNF Met carriers were more introverted. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20042999

Therefore, if it's really helpful to tell a homosexual to give in to behavior that will kill him, then, of the others, we should tell one to crawl inside as bottle, the other to craw inside a crack pipe, and the last to crawl inside a cave.

That's real helpful.

Now, there IS a biological propensity for males and females to mate when they feel like it with whomever is available. That, however, has been found to be unhelpful, so those urges are brought under control.

If one can control, then so can the other.

25 posted on 03/28/2013 9:25:06 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: PapaBear3625

Good post.

This is why homosexuals need legalized marriage. The second they acquire gay marriage, they will demand preference in adoption. And every one of those adopted children can be brainwashed to embrace the homosexual lifestyle.

That is the plan. The plan is to turn adopted children into fags and dykes, and they can’t demand adoption preference until they conquer legalized marriage. Then they will scream they were being discriminated against any time they are turned down for adoption, and the adoption agency will fold and give in.

This is the plan.


26 posted on 03/28/2013 9:30:00 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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To: Maelstorm

I think I know why some people are so happy, or gay, but being homosexual is another issue.


27 posted on 03/28/2013 9:32:50 AM PDT by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

If divorce and domestic violence were the cause of homosexuality there would be far greater numbers of gays than there are.


28 posted on 03/28/2013 9:33:47 AM PDT by Wiser now (Socialism does not eliminate poverty, it guarantees it.)
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To: Beowulf9
The gay twin grew up as a heterosexual, married, had children. Then ...was gay, divorced, moved ...with a homosexual other...forgetting what he did to his wife and two little girls. He still sees them, they are of course expected to accept his new lifestyle. He feels he is a good father.

The divorce industry long ago redefined "a good father" to mean someone who keeps up with pittance child support payments and demands to see the kids, occasionally doing so. Or demanding custody so he can avoid paying support to his ex-wife, and letting his future live-in cope with them off-handedly. As long as the lawyers get paid, he's a "good" father.

29 posted on 03/28/2013 9:47:21 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Commies out of DC!" --Raoul Deming, 1954-2013)
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To: Maelstorm

...roughly 5% of men and 8% of women reported sexual activity with a member of the same sex at least once during their lifetimes. Then they plugged the survey responses into a standard mathematical model for comparing identical and fraternal twins....


Here’s the problem.

The 5-8% (as opposed to 2%) gay numbers suggest they are including non-gays who had an isolated homosexual experience (pubescent experimentation, college “LUG” etc.)

Someone else can do the math, but the data may very well explain that most or all gays who are living an ongoing gay lifestyle are explained genetically, and all those who have a random experimentation have no genetic factor.


30 posted on 03/28/2013 9:47:53 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Universal Background Check -> Registration -> Confiscation -> Oppression -> Extermination)
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To: Maelstorm

The so called “gay gene” is nothing compared to the “multiple partners gene,” yet we have laws against polygamy.


31 posted on 03/28/2013 9:49:04 AM PDT by pallis
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To: BenLurkin
Is there such a thing as a “gay gene”?

Vicky Gene Robinson, the first gay bishop of the Episcopal church; Billie Gene, Michael Jackson's fictitious baby mama...

32 posted on 03/28/2013 9:51:48 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Commies out of DC!" --Raoul Deming, 1954-2013)
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To: Wiser now; LucyT; azishot

“God knows the cause, whether it is genetic or environmental, and He still said “Do not practice homosexuality.” In God’s eyes the cause is irrelevant.”

Going one step further, I wonder if any homo is able to answer this question:

Assuming that “homos are born (created) with the homo gene,” why would God say, “Do not practice homosexuality”?

I suspect that homos will claim atheism rather than answering the question.


33 posted on 03/28/2013 9:55:35 AM PDT by melancholy
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To: Maelstorm

I’m a male lesbian.


34 posted on 03/28/2013 9:58:34 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Life is a bitch. If it was easy, we would call it a slut)
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To: Borax Queen
Or, some were drama queens to begin with

My money is on at least 90% is the craving for attention.

35 posted on 03/28/2013 10:05:40 AM PDT by bgill
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To: Maelstorm

The Supreme Court - About to Play God Again?


36 posted on 03/28/2013 10:06:03 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
This is why homosexuals need legalized marriage. The second they acquire gay marriage, they will demand preference in adoption. And every one of those adopted children can be brainwashed to embrace the homosexual lifestyle.

And at some point, they will say they make bettr parents because they chose to have children, unlike heteros who can have children "by accident." Reminds me of the abortion promise "every child a wanted child."

Children as a rule deserve to know their geneology. Yes, adoption by strangers is sometimes necessary, but it should not be the goal.

37 posted on 03/28/2013 10:06:09 AM PDT by informavoracious (God help us.)
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To: Maelstorm

Just imagine how quickly the ‘gay problem’ in society will correct itself if they ever discover a ‘gay gene’. With a society that places so little regard on it’s unborn (just look at the abortion rate for Downs Syndrome children) a test for a gay gene would remove well over 90% of the gay population.

The funny thing is that the only people who would keep their ‘gay babies’ would be the religious Christians that the Homosexuals hate so much!


38 posted on 03/28/2013 10:09:12 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Maelstorm

Gay by genes or by choice is beside the point since what matters in terms of the law is how society experiences the effect of the gayness. In other words, if two men marry, society doesn’t know the root cause of their choice. All society knows is that a gay marriage, e.g., produces no children, which has a substantive effect on society. To start dwelling on the cause and not the effect lets the left get its foot in the door with bogus arguments about discrimination.


39 posted on 03/28/2013 10:16:57 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Blackirish; Maelstorm
Some of these chicks are brutes. Big shoulders, necks, thick backs.....combine that with men’s clothing, facial hair and homade tattoos. Something..I don’t know is really off.

Brain studies originating with research into stroke and traumatic brain injury have found that when people focus on a given area of life, the brain grows or colonizes more brain cells in that site.

Brain-injured people are put through occupational therapy to grow new brain pathways around old injuries -- working with eye-hand coordination, repetitive movements involving the injured sphere or the new objective in recovery.

So it makes sense that people have some ability to grow into or out of various behaviors --"Be transformed by the renewing of your mind" -- or that repetition of certain behaviors could grow enough brain cells that the person experiences a powerful sense of compulsion -- especially in the areas of child abuse or being orphaned or abandoned -- the self-protective, "I need to protect my hurt" functions of emotional growth. In the case of butch lesbians, adding layers of fat and making themselves unattractive to men self-reinforces an inner sense of un"whole"ness. In effeminate men, unmanly behaviors insulate a male from adult responsibility, especially the emotional responsibility of a natural marriage.

As for the parade you saw, the medical fad of giving opposite-sex hormones to these confused folks may be responsible for facial hair on women, masculine body image, etc.

Here is the testimony of a woman who gradually grew out of lesbianism. The comments at the link to the original article contain several stories of men and women who either left the life, or continue to insist that nothing can change them, and therefore aren't open to the possibility. The testimonies include people whose pathway included Christianity and people who healed without a religious conversion.

My Train Wreck Conversion (Lesbian turns away, chooses Christianity)

40 posted on 03/28/2013 10:18:50 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Commies out of DC!" --Raoul Deming, 1954-2013)
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To: DooDahhhh

Yes, God may have made them, but they succumbed to their own prurient interests. Don’t pawn their dysfunction off on God.

We all have temptation. It is the Civil Society that prevents us from anarchy. A society that blithely accepts every dysfunction as if it is not only normal, but acceptable, quickly declines.

How many people will fight for a morally bankrupt society?


41 posted on 03/28/2013 10:20:33 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: CSM
The same folks that defend evolution with all of their might, seem to believe that a “gene” that CAN NOT procreate has somehow survived their millions of years of evolving.

Ouch! Good one!

42 posted on 03/28/2013 10:20:44 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Commies out of DC!" --Raoul Deming, 1954-2013)
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To: Maelstorm

Repost-

I read a theory on Freep that has been stuck in my mind for about a week or so. I have tried to locate the post so I can quote the person who wrote it but I simply can”t find it. (If you are reading this, I apologize. I really tried.)

The theory basically said that homosexuals are stuck at a level of sexual immaturity beyond which most people move and become heterosexual. (Little kids aren’t yet sexual so they don’t qualify as homo or hetero for this argument.)

The point is - those of us who are hetero, do you remember when you were very small? Way back before puberty? When sex was something you didn’t even know about? What did you think of the opposite sex? If you were a boy you probably thought girls were icky. If you were a girl you probably thought boys were stupid. Then as puberty hit something began to change. You began to have feelings that weren’t there before. You began to feel attracted to the opposite sex. It was confusing and exciting at the same time.

The theory says that for whatever reason (Something different about their brains? Some psychological trauma?) people who are homosexual did not make this jump. They became sexual without losing their distaste for the opposite sex and maturing to the next level. They are adults with the sexual attitudes of children.

I found the idea interesting. It had never occurred to me before that homosexual attitudes towards the opposite sex were very similar to the attitudes held by prepubescent children.


43 posted on 03/28/2013 10:20:46 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: Osage Orange

I also suffer from this ailment. One from which I hope to never recover.


44 posted on 03/28/2013 10:29:23 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: DooDahhhh
First of all, God made them.

He also gives them free will. He does not make us behave this way or that way -- that's up to us. If my family tree is any example, I was born an alcoholic. I made a decision in young adulthood never to drink. My last alcoholic drink was 47 years ago, even though my brain still struggles with the tendency. It was -- and is -- a choice. If I have to choose it every day, so be it.

Thank you, God for being more attractive to me than what my brain thinks it wants.

45 posted on 03/28/2013 10:29:47 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Commies out of DC!" --Raoul Deming, 1954-2013)
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To: DooDahhhh

made them do what?

did not “make eve” do anything.

did not “make” moses smash tablets

did not “make” bill clinton sign doma.

did not “make” people vote for reagan.

how about some evil...

john wayne gaycee?

jane fonda sit on a gunemplacement?

washington state vote for pot?

that crazy woman say obama is gonna’ pay her mortgage?

give obama phones as a campaign tactic?

behavior vs immutable status.


46 posted on 03/28/2013 10:33:43 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: ohiobuckeye1997

Just a thought - maybe I’m way off base. But since the breakdown of the family over the past 50 years or so, many woman increasingly live their 9 months of pregnancy as single women, in stressful or even violent environments. Life begins at conception which would lead me to conclude that a fetus can sense and can be negatively affected by stress or trauma of the mother even before birth. Many homosexuals I know will tell you that the have had significant issues with a parent, often same sex parent. I’ve often wondered why more and more kids at a young age are “coming out” as homosexuals. I suspect it is the natural consequence of the breakdown of the family.


47 posted on 03/28/2013 10:35:42 AM PDT by cblue55 (The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.)
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To: edcoil
So in 35 years [with] hundreds of millions spent on 1% of our society - we appear to have learned nothing.

About a decade ago, I read that we spent over $40 billion on LBJ's "War on Poverty" -- and statistically, nothing has been accomplished. We still have crime-ridden ghettoes full of drugs, low employment, poor childhood conditions, and so on.

And then, as if money is the answer to moral poverty, our country elected a president who vowed to throw them all the rest of whatever we have left, and even more. It's just another lie of the devil, with the poor being used as a smokescreen to line the pockets of those at the levers of power. LBJ even said so -- that the "Great Society" program would "have the [n-words] voting Democrat for the next 200 years."

It's the same with this issue -- they don't really care what will happen, as long as pontificating about it and siphoning money from the decadent wealthy keeps them on the gravy train.

48 posted on 03/28/2013 10:39:23 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Commies out of DC!" --Raoul Deming, 1954-2013)
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To: DooDahhhh
First of all, God made them

True. God made the people. He assembled the parts and breathed Life into them.
What the person did with those parts and with that Life is the responsibility of the person.

God did not make drunks, drug addicts, alcoholics, or serial philanderers. He made human beings. What people have done to His beautiful creation is the story of The Fall.
49 posted on 03/28/2013 10:40:01 AM PDT by TxAg1981
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To: Maelstorm
I don't know if one is born with that inclination or if it comes from environment.

I can say this though. My inclination is that I have a weakness for pretty redheaded women. I also currently have a steady girlfriend. Whether I go and accept that phone number from that redhead at the bar is a choice I make....which would cause bad consequences. Sleeping with that redhead would cause worse consequences and expose me as a untrustworthy snake - so I don't do that.

50 posted on 03/28/2013 10:43:31 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
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