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Chaos in crisis-hit Cyprus as thousands of savers rush to withdraw cash
Daily Mail ^ | 3/28/13 | Simon Tomlinson

Posted on 03/28/2013 12:34:05 PM PDT by Jean S

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To: BfloGuy

“The same is true anywhere in the world — only about 10% of your cash is at the bank. They just depend on the fact that everyone won’t want his at the same time.”

Then how can they take the 40% from depositors, even from a limited number of depositors who are subject to the 40%. Is there even enough cash in reserve to cover the 40% withdrawals? Remember, the 40% fee is based on total deposits above the $100,000, not the total fractional amount in reserve. Unless I’m missing something here, do these socialists ever realize the consequences what they’re doing? Or more than likely they just don’t care.


51 posted on 03/28/2013 2:09:39 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: SaraJohnson

Yes, I’ve known that for a while. I have no IRA, 401K, or pension.

My biggest worry at this point is what to do if the politicians are voted out of office, then refuse to leave?

Civil war will result, of that I’m certain.


52 posted on 03/28/2013 2:18:30 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: ScottfromNJ
Then how can they take the 40% from depositors

They aren't taking actual cash; they're removing the obligation to pay the depositors back (and issuing worthless stock certificates for the difference). The whole deal is to make the bank's balance sheets look better, not to raise actual cash.

53 posted on 03/28/2013 2:23:13 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: Vigilanteman

Going to cause a lot of job losses as businesses with the payroll money in the banks instantly lose a big chunk of the money they needed to meet payroll.

Doubt the politicians thought about that.

Or cared.


54 posted on 03/28/2013 2:23:45 PM PDT by OldArmy52 (The question is not whether Obama ever lies, but whether he ever tells the truth.)
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To: OldArmy52

Going to cause a lot of job losses as businesses with the payroll money in the banks instantly lose a big chunk of the money they needed to meet payroll.

Doubt the politicians thought about that.

Or cared.


It would/will spiral out of control very quickly.

No, the politicians won’t care. But they’d better find deep bunkers.


55 posted on 03/28/2013 2:27:05 PM PDT by laplata
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To: Oatka

Some of the photos at the link show kids standing in line with their parents. That is a tough primer for learning socialism.


56 posted on 03/28/2013 2:27:23 PM PDT by cornfedcowboy (Trust in God, but empty the clip.)
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To: Jean S

For many, Cyprus was a tax shelter, while it lasted. So what’s happening with Italian bonds these days? Will bond investors take haircuts there soon?


57 posted on 03/28/2013 2:40:46 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: demshateGod; Kartographer
Sigh... This looks eerily like one of those “buy ammo” prophecies I’ve seen over the years on FR. I didn’t listen, I’m kicking myself for it.....

There is (at least) one FReeper that I'd love to have read your most honest post. I'll just ping the guy who posts the "prep" threads to your post.

58 posted on 03/28/2013 3:00:30 PM PDT by Jane Long (Background checks? Dandy idea, Mr. President. Shoulda started with yours. - Sarah Palin)
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To: Iron Munro

“Does anyone here doubt that Obama and the democrats would do the same thing if (when) they feel they can get away with it?
And when they do it they will have help from some RINOs too.”

Americans who pay their taxes quarterly would have a response to that (one would think).


59 posted on 03/28/2013 3:09:01 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: steve86
"How did these accounts accumulate over 100,000 Euro if they belong to people who sucked welfare from cradle to grave?"

You're kidding right? It's like the illegal Mexican I once knew who bragged about how he had $250,000 in his bank account because he worked hard to build a small construction business. In the next breath he bragged how he and his family got free health care at the local emergency room, free food from the government, and free education for his anchor babies, but he didn't pay any taxes because he worked off the books. I bet every Freeper who every lived would have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank account if we worked off the books in a shadow economy, didn't pay taxes, and sucked off the governemtn teat.

Cyprus, Greece, and other countries in that region have some of the highest rates of tax avoidance in the world. It's part of the culture. In some areas, the untaxed underground economy rivals the GDP. Yet when the government even hints at cutting a benefit to get its fiscal house in order, the same people who have turned tax avoidance into a sport, take to the steeet in violent protest.

60 posted on 03/28/2013 3:12:16 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Jean S

sarah is misinformed. There is no chaos. Cyprus is calm


61 posted on 03/28/2013 3:15:11 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: bert

Who is sarah?


62 posted on 03/28/2013 3:22:15 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Vigilanteman
Every dollar of deposited money provides the bank with about five dollars to lend, assuming the reserve ratio remains around the historic norm of 20%

Apparently the "too-big-to-fail" banks have exceeded that 5-to-1 ratio just a little bit. I understand they are closer to 22-to-1... I wonder why they needed 'emergency' measures a few years ago?

Of course we don't know the leverage ration for sure. Banks (any business, actually) that are considered systemically important are allowed to keep 2 sets of books, one for their reporting to their shareholders (and the public), and another to report to government.

That was by executive order - can't have the people know how many firms are insolvent. They might Panic! We might need arms, and bullets, and armored vehicles to keep the peace if they found out!

When will I wake up from this long bad dream???

63 posted on 03/28/2013 4:11:22 PM PDT by Kay Ludlow (Government actions ALWAYS have unintended consequences...)
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To: Jean S

ooops....that would be simon, not sarah


64 posted on 03/28/2013 4:17:08 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: ScottfromNJ
Is there even enough cash in reserve to cover the 40%

No. This is a bookkeeping exercise.

do these socialists ever realize the consequences what they’re doing?

They do realize that if they just let the banks fail [like they should], the bank-to-government gravy train will be in danger.

65 posted on 03/28/2013 4:25:14 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The economy is not a pie, but a bakery.)
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To: SaraJohnson

Keep investing in lead. That may be one of the ahem savings needed.


66 posted on 03/28/2013 4:25:30 PM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: circlecity
Can’t believe it’s not happening in Spain too. They’ll wait until it’s too late.

Anybody with large amounts of money in any southern European bank right now is a fool.

67 posted on 03/28/2013 4:31:56 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Jean S

Mattress banking is better.


68 posted on 03/28/2013 4:43:35 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Jean S

You mean Shep Smith just lied to us when he said it was only a few dozen people? I’m gobsmacked!


69 posted on 03/28/2013 4:51:27 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I am a dissident. Will you join me? My name is John....)
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To: RedMDer
We don't have it monthly (yet) but I have had the clerk call the cops on me for using an old “small portrait” $100 bill. Before 1996, they didn't have a line or watermark so she assumed it was fake.

The cops came and basically grilled me about “what do you do” and “where did you get that bill”. Luckily someone else in the store recognized the old style or the idiots probably would have called the Secret Service.

Lesson: when a new bill style is introduced, rotate the old and replace with new.

70 posted on 03/28/2013 4:56:25 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga

Yeah, I learned about that at the casino when the slots wouldn’t accept my 20’s.


71 posted on 03/28/2013 5:01:07 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I am a dissident. Will you join me? My name is John....)
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To: Jean S

Oh no! The music stopped and there are no chairs left! That’s just not “fair”!!! :O


72 posted on 03/28/2013 5:38:15 PM PDT by The Duke (We don't rent pigs, but apparently we *do* ELECT them.)
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To: Jean S

Fears of a run on bank deposits. LOL, what would give them such a notion?


73 posted on 03/28/2013 5:43:05 PM PDT by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: SatinDoll

Seniors can’t remove their SS income, Social Security has gone electronic.


74 posted on 03/28/2013 5:45:26 PM PDT by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: Labyrinthos

NO, that sounds like about 50% of the USA people...


75 posted on 03/28/2013 6:07:11 PM PDT by goodnesswins (R.I.P. Doherty, Smith, Stevens, Woods.)
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To: steve86

A bunch of bankers will need to hire people to start their cars,taste their food,guard their children,etc.....


76 posted on 03/28/2013 6:41:25 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: MrB

“But, really, what right does a bank have to say that you can’t have YOUR money?”

Because when you put money in a bank, it’s not YOUR money, it’s the BANK’s money!

What people don’t realize is that when they deposit money in a bank, it’s not for the purpose of the bank to hold on to THEIR money for THEIR convenience, but what they are really doing is LOANING their money to the bank! They are actually a lender and not a depositor. And once they loan the money to the bank, it’s no longer their money, it’s the bank’s money! This is all spelled out in the account agreement one signs with a bank, and by loaning your money to the bank you’re giving the bank permission to use the money you loaned them pretty much as they see fit, and there is no real guarantee that you’ll ever get back any of the money you loaned the bank!

Prior to the illusion of FDIC insured deposits (loans) and it’s equivalent in other countries, banks used to go bankrupt all the time, completely wiping out ALL investors’ deposits. That was a big part of the death spiral of the Great Depression and why it was necessary for FDIC insurance to be invented, or otherwise no sane person would ever loan their money to a bank again.

And like in the EU, the FDIC actually only insures accounts up to a certain limit, and for anything over that there simply are no guarantees you’ll ever get the money you loaned the bank back. Period.

Now when banks DO go bankrupt, there are SUPPOSED to be lawful ways in which the remaining assets are distributed to the banks debt holders in an orderly, lawful fashion, the depositors being simply one class of debt holder. That process has worked pretty well in the U.S. recently, but given the propensity of the Obammunists to ignore the law and just do what they feel like, all bets are off for the future.

And in places like Cyprus, it sounds like they didn’t have ready-made procedures for bank bankruptcies anyway, so they had to make some up quickly. One could label such ex-post facto, ad hoc measures “theft”, but the net result to those foolish enough to make giant loans (deposits) to these crappy banks would probably be pretty much the same if Cyprus had a U.S.-like process in place prior to bank bankruptcy anyway, namely the depositors money has simply completely evaporated because the banks made really, really bad investments with their depositors’ loaned money, and they’d wind up with nothing anyway.

And most likely nothing criminal has been involved here either, except maybe criminal stupidity or maybe criminal greed by both the depositors and the banks themselves. Because the depositors were chasing unrealistic returns promised by the bank, and which they the bank delivered by “investing” their depositors money in Greek bonds. Greek bonds were paying extremely high interest rates, but the high interest rates were being paid because it was likely the bonds would fail, which is exactly what happened.

The takeaway lesson here, though, is simply don’t loan your money to a bank. Just keep enough money in your bank account to pay next month’s bills. Even better switch as much of your transactions as possible to cash. It’s actually easier to do than most people think. For example, I live in a small town and pay all of my insurance and property taxes by simply walking in and plunking down the cash. I could do the same thing for my utilities if I wanted. And I never use plastic except when I buy stuff on the Internet.


77 posted on 03/28/2013 6:55:26 PM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: HomeAtLast

In truth, by the time I’m eligible to collect SS, it probably will no longer exist.


78 posted on 03/28/2013 8:05:23 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: laplata

I don’t think the Russian mob is going to want much publicity.

They were able to get their money out from Branches of the bank in London and Greece. Dur ring the banking holiday the foreign branches of the bank were kept open without limit on withdraw so that all the special people could get their money.
This in turn depleted what the poor saps in Cyprus will ever get back.


79 posted on 03/28/2013 8:17:21 PM PDT by Revel
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To: varyouga

Idiots! They never saw an older bill. Sheese...


80 posted on 03/28/2013 8:31:31 PM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: Revel

That’s Evil to the core.

I saw a street interview of a woman on Crete today. To

paraphrase her: “We must work harder to make up for this”.

Stupid woman.


81 posted on 03/28/2013 8:31:40 PM PDT by laplata
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To: Cyber Liberty

Shep Smith is a wimpy little Progressive. He loves Statist propaganda.


82 posted on 03/28/2013 8:33:51 PM PDT by laplata
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To: steve86
Actually, only 30-40% of the part over 100,000€ is being confiscated

They have withdrawal limits now, set at 300 Euros. This means the following:

  1. All the money is confiscated, regardless of the amount
  2. The stolen money, up to 100K Euros, can be returned to you at a later time and in small batches, if you are insistent enough and live long enough.

One could say that "the money, up to 100K Euros, is NOT confiscated" only if you can withdraw it all whenever you wish. This condition is not met.

83 posted on 03/28/2013 8:35:08 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Greysard

I understand what you’re saying — it is as good as confiscated.

They claim the capital controls will be ended soon but I really doubt that.


84 posted on 03/28/2013 8:37:00 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: SatinDoll

Of course, nowadays there can be silent runs, with people withdrawing/transferring money using electronic means not in existence during the last Depression.


85 posted on 03/28/2013 9:17:24 PM PDT by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Oatka
Those patriotic people above will regret their decision in a few days/weeks. .

They were not given a decision.

300L per day is the max ALLOWED!

My money?!? Allowed?!? Really?!?

This will spread.

86 posted on 03/28/2013 10:49:32 PM PDT by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: RedMDer

That would lead to a barter system developing, people would stop taking money.


87 posted on 03/29/2013 4:13:41 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: Labyrinthos

True.


88 posted on 03/29/2013 4:15:12 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: houeto

“They were not given a decision. 300L per day is the max ALLOWED! My money?!? Allowed?!? Really?!? This will spread.”

We cannot let ‘capitalism’ take the hit for this, as the left will try to push. The reality is that socialism has had a huge role, by far the biggest role worldwide in the financial crisis.

I don’t know the details about Cyprus, but I do know that Greece was living a socialist utopia lifestyle for years without the GDP to warrant it. At some point the bills come due. The problem is that those who have savings probably weren’t part of the problem (with the exception of their votes for socialists, if they did so), but will suffer the most loss.

From our US perspective, who here thinks the FDIC is anything more than a feel good acronym? If there were a run on US banks, about the only thing the government could and would do is to print more useless money - which would just dilute the value of whatever we were able to salvage anyway.

I was thinking today about the old Smith Barney commercial “We make money the old fashioned way. We earn it.” The reality is that the current crop of leftists in power, starting in the US with the President, don’t believe that you can ‘earn it’. ‘You didn’t build that.’ You didn’t earn that. Property and the concepts of ‘earnings’ and ‘savings’ are no longer sacrosanct. They’re just words now, and an obstruction to the agenda of those who are in power in much of the world.


89 posted on 03/29/2013 8:09:43 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: laplata; fatima; aegiscg47; Labyrinthos; MrB

And many businesses will be closing because their capital and payroll have been swiped. Here is one story.

http://tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=219237


90 posted on 03/29/2013 12:17:18 PM PDT by Revel
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To: Revel

Thanks for that link.

We ain’t seen nothin’ yet.


91 posted on 03/29/2013 12:32:56 PM PDT by laplata
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To: taxcontrol

The bottom-line reason the banks blew up in Cyprus was that they were using their reserves to buy Cypriot gov’t bonds. Beyond the folks now not trusting the banks with their Euros nobody but nobody will be buying gov’t bonds. Not only are the banks on their way out of business but the gov’t will now be limited to it’s tax income stream-——————————————————————————————————————Hang on folks-—the exact same thing is coming to a bank near you. The biggest US bond trader in the US, Bill Gross of PIMCO, announced some months ago that he was on his way out of US bonds entirely. I sold all mine back in the mid 90’s when Clinton was scaring me and haven’t owned one since. Greece drew the map on gov’t bond defaults and our own genius Beranky doesn’t know a dammmmm thing that the Gleeks didn’t know. He’s printing/digitizing/papering/faking/ imagining some 85 billion dollars a month of unsecured US bonds, they can’t be sold at zero interest rates, and there is absolutely no way to make them good. Divide Obamuzzie’s 17 trillion dollar debt by the 300 million people who are on the hook for it ( can’t do it here because I don’t have enough zeros) and you see how much money each of us is on the hook for——and doesn’t have.


92 posted on 03/29/2013 1:09:13 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: cherokee1

I’m sure that there will be a back room deal to put more dollars chasing bonds. It will come after the next big market drop. Something about 401Ks are retirement plans needing to be protected and that the only way to do that is to require investors to put some X% into bonds. It will likely start small, say 5% or some such. Later it will get larger and larger. There have already been calls by the Dems for this.

Mark my words, its coming.


93 posted on 03/29/2013 1:52:22 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: SatinDoll

I don’t think you need to worry about politicians refusing to leave. It far easier for them to simply rig the election so that they can claim they were never voted out.


94 posted on 03/29/2013 7:43:56 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: HomeAtLast

“Seniors can’t remove their SS income, Social Security has gone electronic.”

Socialist security was always a ponzi scheme. Now if bush had been successful in setting up individual back in 2005 accounts you might have some form of point.

But the AARP killed that using the dollars of millions of Senior members. There really is nothing keeping theses payments from being cut back. In fact I would say given growing welfare-state demands its only a matter of time before they are cut back if not in dollar amount certantly in value.

There is no way we can prevent that, and the demographic math is already in. Simply put seniors have no way to protect that money, they don’t even have a claim on it in an account much less a bank of any kind.

Indeed strictly speaking all the money has already been spent by politicians as quickly as it was collected.


95 posted on 03/29/2013 8:11:48 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: cherokee1

People need to be carefull in comparing EU nation’s financal problem with American problems.

EU nations are comparable to U.S. States in that they can’t tax by way of inflation. This has forced them to take direct acts to balance their books rather than indirect acts.

People don’t like direct acts because they can see them directly. But people tend to missatribute to a bad economy or “corporate greed” the effect of indirect acts such as inflation. Thus indirect taxation thou inflation is politically common.

The politician simply reaches around to your left pocket to take your money while blaming the thief on the guy standing to your left. As a group voters fall for this lie almost every time, because following the money is far too much work for your typical voter. Simply put as a population we are apathetic, and easy made fools of, particularly by figures we want to trust.

I digress... the U.S. Federal government will not likely run into any such problem because it has the power of indirect taxation. People like Obama will simply convince the majority to stop worrying about debt, and when interest rates become prohibited to “Take over the bank” and defraud the lenders.

E.U. nations don’t have that option, they have to be open and more honest with their population. At least as far as getting money goes.


96 posted on 03/29/2013 8:23:07 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Revel
I've quoted your comment elsewhere, following my own leade:

"Comment on the web, based on my repeated contention that the world's banking crisis was precipitated by the CRA, which concocted the nearly-limitless might of America's toxic home-mortgaging power to fund this country's unsustainable government largess:

97 posted on 03/30/2013 1:00:06 AM PDT by Does so (Progressives Don't Know the Meaning of INFRINGED...)
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To: Monorprise

I had a form of point, you merely missed it. It was that automatic electronic deposits can’t be protected. Seniors who subsist on SS can be effectively exterminated with the stroke of a key.


98 posted on 03/30/2013 4:48:00 AM PDT by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: HomeAtLast

“I had a form of point, you merely missed it. It was that automatic electronic deposits can’t be protected. Seniors who subsist on SS can be effectively exterminated with the stroke of a key.”

While this is technically true I don’t really understand its relevance. Whether its the stroke of a key or the stroke of a pin the machine is just as effectively stopped.

The only difference between a computer and an old style paper pusher is the speed and accuracy with which it processes data and executes commands.

So it takes 1 day instead of a week to carry out a congressional or presidential order to stop issuing SS checks.


99 posted on 03/30/2013 11:37:10 AM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Jean S

What a success this has been. Coming to a savings bank near you.


100 posted on 03/30/2013 2:46:51 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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