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D.C. Archbishop Wuerl Fears Catholic Marriage Beliefs Seen as Hate Speech
Newsmax ^ | Sunday, 31 Mar 2013 03:25 PM | Greg Richter

Posted on 03/31/2013 12:48:50 PM PDT by Olog-hai

The archbishop of Washington says that while the church is welcoming of everyone, including gay people, he fears the possibility of the church’s position that marriage is only for a man and a woman will be seen as bigotry or hate speech.

Cardinal Donald Wuerl, appearing on Fox News Sunday, said the church can be welcoming of gay people who are legally married without recognizing those marriages within the church itself. …

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: antireligion; homosexualagenda; lavendermafia; liberalagenda; wuerl; wuerlthegirl
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1 posted on 03/31/2013 12:48:50 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

He should just say “YUK”.


2 posted on 03/31/2013 12:52:15 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Olog-hai

Da ‘Burgh Bump! (He, the Cardinal Wuerl, was from Pittsburgh originally)


3 posted on 03/31/2013 12:52:54 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: Olog-hai

I ran into a gay priest once while travelling on leave ... they’re out there.


4 posted on 03/31/2013 12:54:13 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: Olog-hai

Cardinal Wuerl is the Catholic version of John Shelby Spong, just another Sixties-style leftwing idiot nutcake.


5 posted on 03/31/2013 12:54:42 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: Olog-hai

+ Dolan did similar tap-dancing on ABC.

I find it a very odd “coincidence” that each of these appearances on different networks had a homosexual focus. Sadly their mealey mouthed responses were not the least bit surprising.

Oh to have courageous and holy bishops who love not the acclaim of the world and feared not the rejection of worldly powers.


6 posted on 03/31/2013 12:55:09 PM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: jtal

Benedict XVI called homosexual marriage a “threat to humanity.” These prelates should simply have repeated Benedict XVI and kept it at that or referred to the Catholic Catechism on homosexual relations.


7 posted on 03/31/2013 12:57:17 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Olog-hai

A lot of folks don’t realize this, but “gay” “marriage” is the weapon the left will use to shut down Churches.

Failure to perform the “ceremony” will at first be used to deny tax exempt status to the Churches, and then they’ll be hauled in front of “human rights commissions”, broken financially and then have their Church’s property seized.


8 posted on 03/31/2013 12:59:07 PM PDT by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: Olog-hai
the church can be welcoming of gay people who are legally married

And open adulterers and fornicators, too, right? How about open racists? Thieves and perjurers?

Where does the "welcoming" of open and unrepentant sinners end?

9 posted on 03/31/2013 12:59:50 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Quien vive? JESUS! Y a su nombre? GLORIA! Y a su pueblo? VICTORIA!)
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To: Olog-hai

This is a canard. Welcoming gays is not the purpose of the church. Welcoming people who realize they are sinners and are need of the grace of God is. Why are priests playing into this false meme? Do they ever say we just are welcoming enough to alcoholics? We aren’t welcoming enough to divorcees? We aren’t welcoming enough to fornicators? I mean really this is ridiculous and really calls into question the mental capacity of this priest. If I were in charge I’d remove him from his position for being stupid.


10 posted on 03/31/2013 1:14:47 PM PDT by Maelstorm (This country wasn't founded with the battle cry "Give me liberty or give me a govt check!")
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To: Olog-hai

So, I guess he’s just going to ignore Chapter 5 of 1 Corinthians


11 posted on 03/31/2013 1:18:45 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: South Hawthorne
You are absolutely correct. The moment "gay" marriages become legal in the entire nation, there will be gay couples (set up by extremist gay groups) going to the Catholic Church and demanding that the Church marry them. When the Church says no, they will sue and say that their civil rights have been violated.

What then? Do we see if the 1st Amendment actually means anything; or, will we see that the only speech rights, and right to practice our religion, we have are those approved of by left-wing activist groups?

12 posted on 03/31/2013 1:28:30 PM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: Tax-chick
I could wring Cardinal Wuerl's neck, except I'm pretty sure that would be a canonical delict.

He's correct when he says the Church allows ---in the door (sort of)--- people who are divorced-remarried, even though they are no more "married" in the eyes of God than two sexually disordered men. So the comparison was technically correct.

But then he turns the analogy in exactly the wrong direction when he says,

"-- and it has never been a great problem."

EXCUSE ME??? I am working RIGHT NOW with the long-term emotional heartache and grief of two divorced-remarried couples, RCIA students of mine who completed the whole course but could not receive any of the Easter Sacraments because their petitions of annulment have not gone through.

Mind you, I know the Church is right about this, because the Church DOES take marriage seriously. But it IS a great problem. a HUGE problem. It's not like they just have a paperwork glitch. Their whole life in the Church has been knocked clear off the track because they are living in --- well, adultery , to use the word used by Jesus Christ when He explicitly forbade divorce-remarriage.

Mind you, there may be findings of nullity in these cases, and things will begin to resolve and be hunky-dory. But there may not. And if the Church upholds the bond, these people are going to be out of the Sacraments until the former spouse dies, or the present spouse dies, or they decide to live together in sexual continence, or the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, whichever comes first.

It's hard. It's a BIG PROBLEM.

It fries my grits when "gay married couples" are given the equivalent of a lavender-love sparkle-sticker, while divorced/remarried heteros get the Scarlet Letter.

Again, the Church is right to uphold the sanctity of marriage in every case, and to insist on "Real Marriage, No Substitutes."

But Cardinal Wuerl makes it would like a footnote formatting error. "Never been a great problem," my asterisk.

Grrrr.

Alleluia.

13 posted on 03/31/2013 1:42:29 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I saw water flowing from the right side of the Temple... Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Maybe he means those who were already Catholic, and then divorced and remarried, often outside the Church. They’re “under the radar.”

I sponsored a man through RCIA who was in a second marriage, as was his wife. They wanted so much to receive the Sacraments at the Easter Vigil that they made a full confession and agreed to live in continence until ... whenever. (I believe it was less than three months until the paperwork cleared.)

It IS a problem, and the message given by the acceptance of some couples openly in sin ... “We decided to get fixed because we are SO done having children!” ... while putting others through the wringer is that the Church is inconsistent and does not really care about marriage or chastity, except in cases where not caring would be too obvious and embarassing.

It’s hard for the Church in a “divorce culture.” People who, in good faith at the time, thought their first marriage was over find something different when they wish to become Catholics. However, saying that sodomitic sex does not create any relationship recognized by the Church - let alone marriage - should be EASY.


14 posted on 03/31/2013 1:54:36 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Quien vive? JESUS! Y a su nombre? GLORIA! Y a su pueblo? VICTORIA!)
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To: South Hawthorne
A lot of folks don’t realize this, but “gay” “marriage” is the weapon the left will use to shut down Churches.

Yep. Remember the secret wedding scene in Braveheart? I think we're headed in that direction, in many respects.

15 posted on 03/31/2013 1:57:09 PM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The problem with the like of Cardinals Wuerl and Dolan is they get trapped in the elitist bubble that is Lower Manhattan and DC. Cardinal Wuerl was the one who transferred a visiting priest who refused to administer the Eucharist to a pro-abortionist.


16 posted on 03/31/2013 2:05:55 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: South Hawthorne
Failure to perform the “ceremony” will at first be used to deny tax exempt status to the Churches, and then they’ll be hauled in front of “human rights commissions”, broken financially and then have their Church’s property seized.

Then we'll just go underground, but keep on trucking!

17 posted on 03/31/2013 2:06:18 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Olog-hai

Cardinal Donald Wuerl, appearing on Fox News Sunday, said the church can be welcoming of gay people who are legally married without recognizing those marriages within the church itself.

So if I am a single man and masturbate I am guilty of a mortal sin. If I watch porn I am guilty of a sin. Before I can go to communion, I must confess this sin to a priest and do penance.

Now Father Wuerl will tell me to go and sin no more .

When he accepts these gay people into the Church is he not endorsing the sin? How can he welcome gay people without welcoming sodomy? He knows what these people are doing is against God’s laws. How can he welcome that? He has seen what Sodomy and Pedophilia have done to his Church, and he welcomes that?

I do not understand that. The Church is not indulging in hate speech when it rejects sodomy, it is enforcing out God’s Law, and there is no way in Heaven that Wuerl or anyone esle can preach Gods word and accept Homosexuality.

I ambegginning to thick of Cardinal wuerl as the John McCain of Catholicism.


18 posted on 03/31/2013 2:39:31 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Olog-hai

Prepare for martyrdom, priest!


19 posted on 03/31/2013 2:53:54 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Olog-hai

It is time these Catholic priests start talking about marriage for priests. They will understand why giving marriage between a man and a woman must be given exclusive treatment which is not hate speech—just as we give celibacy special treatment.


20 posted on 03/31/2013 2:56:37 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Venturer
How can he welcome gay people without welcoming sodomy?

He cannot. He is deluded by Satan.

21 posted on 03/31/2013 2:59:31 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Quien vive? JESUS! Y a su nombre? GLORIA! Y a su pueblo? VICTORIA!)
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To: Olog-hai
"The archbishop of Washington says that while the church is welcoming of everyone, including gay people, he fears the possibility of the church’s position that marriage is only for a man and a woman will be seen as bigotry or hate speech."

Not to worry, that perception would merely get lost in the background noise of all hate and bigotry already being directed AGAINST the church by those same special rights goups.
22 posted on 03/31/2013 3:00:41 PM PDT by clearcarbon
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To: jonrick46

If they are “tolerant” of homosexuality, they do not have a proper understanding of matrimony, and their mockups of “marriage” would be as scandalous as the relations of many Church of England clergy.


23 posted on 03/31/2013 3:02:31 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Quien vive? JESUS! Y a su nombre? GLORIA! Y a su pueblo? VICTORIA!)
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To: jonrick46

“It is time these Catholic priests start talking about marriage for priests.”

The liberal Catholics who dig ‘gay marriage’ all hate the discipline of celibacy and talk about it constantly. They are all for doing away with it. In any case it would never be ‘marriage for priests’ but married men becoming priests.

Freegards


24 posted on 03/31/2013 3:10:45 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Olog-hai

Protesters Question Clergyman’s Loyalty
At Archbishop Jose Gomez Residence

Dozens of protesters have shown up at Archbishop of Los Angelus Jose Gomez residence many carrying American flags and bearing signs questioning his loyalty to the US not Mexico along with many signs demanding equal rights for American citizens in Mexico.

The protest was apparently triggered by the clerics decision to push forward with his predecessors decision the disgraced Cardinal Mahoney with offering amnesty thus citizenship to Mexicans crossing the border illegally while thousands of Americans in Mexico struggle under 2nd class citizenship unable to own property and suffer indignitys let alone participate in Mexican elections while living there in Mexico.

A spokeswoman for the group, Harriet Hildegarden insisted her group consists of Catholics loyal to the church. “We will be protesting at other locations where prominent clergy of the church have sided with the Obama regime. “Hildy” claims the church is supporting the democrat party which denied God at their convention and declared what she claims is war on the Catholics but would collude with it on”social engineering” issues including “amnesty” .

When asked if she may be denied communion for her activities her reply was “Well it’s been known that when that happens quicker when clerics get personally attacked than when some politican challanges the church on the grounds of faith and morals” .

from http://theusmat.com/natldeskdatire.htm


25 posted on 03/31/2013 3:10:52 PM PDT by mosesdapoet ("It's a sin to tell a lie", in telling others that , got me my nickname .Ex Chi" mechanic"ret)
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To: Venturer
"I am beginning to think of Cardinal Wuerl as the John McCain of Catholicism."

"Beginning"? What took you so long?

26 posted on 03/31/2013 3:48:18 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I saw water flowing from the right side of the Temple... Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o


'I love you, too': Cardinal Dolan says Catholic Church must embrace gays and lesbians

It seems that some of our U.S. Bishops had some kind of meeting recently to discuss this issue, as this related article about Cardinal Dolan (link above) says "Despite the appeal for inclusiveness, Dolan said the Church is unlikely to reverse their position on same-sex marriage".

(Please keep in mind, however, that the source here is NBC, which is certainly not the most reliable news source in the world.   I hope that what Cardinal Dolan actually said, or what he actually meant to say, was that the Church IS NOT GOING TO reverse their position on same-sex marriage!)

As the Bible says,

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?   Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.   1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(St. Paul is referring to unrepentant sinners who knowingly and willfully persist in their sinful behaviors.   Love the sinner, hate the sin.)
27 posted on 03/31/2013 4:07:35 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("God is Love" 1 John 4:8)
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To: jonrick46
Celibacy has nothing to do with it. Catholic vowed celibates (priests, brothers, sisters) number about 100,000 in the USA, so they are approx. 0.032% of the U.S. population.

I mention that only because the vast majority of people who are supporting the deconstruction of marriage are not vowed celibates. An amazing number of them are married straights.

There's not much about marriage (apparently) that inclines public opinion away from gay pseudomarriage. Married people themselves increasingly support gay pseudomarriage

Too many married people just say "Marriage is good for us, why wouldn't it be good for them, too?"

That's what all the Republicans who are flipping over to the LGBT agenda are saying. "As a husband and a father, I love my gay son who just wants the kind of lasting bond with his partner that his mother and I have" etc. etc.

It's incredible. Jaw-dropping. But true. You cannot count on "normal" married people, even Christian married people, to be your allies anymore.

28 posted on 03/31/2013 4:16:20 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Heart-Rest
No, the Catholic Church is never going to change its teaching about the thing mis-called "gay marriage," But can it be called a "teaching" if it is not actually taught?

And that's the danger. Not that the "teaching" will ever change (you'll always be able to find it in the internet-searchable Catechism) --- but it will simply be a dead letter. Nobody will say anything. Like nobody says anything about contraception. Silence conquers all.

29 posted on 03/31/2013 4:22:29 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Olog-hai

To the Church in Sardis: “I know about your activities: how you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were one or the other,

16 but since you are neither hot nor cold, but only lukewarm, I will spew you out of my mouth.”

Apocalypse 3

There can be no compromise. The Bishops can be one or the other and not both.


30 posted on 03/31/2013 4:33:26 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Ralph Martin has been going on a lot of talk shows recently promoting his latest book, "Will Many Be Saved?"

I have not read that book yet, but from his discussions about it, he believes that Jesus clearly often stated that many will sadly be lost.

We do not know how many pointy skulls of bishops will line the blazing floors of hell, but I think it behooves our Bishops to seek to perfectly align all their teachings with the teachings of our Risen Lord, and not try to weasel their way into popularity in today's warped and sinful culture, leading untold numbers of other people astray.

31 posted on 03/31/2013 4:39:20 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("God is Love" 1 John 4:8)
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To: OpusatFR
That was the Church of Laodicea.

What was said to the Church of Sardis was the following:
I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. / Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. / Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. / Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. / He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(Rev. 3:1-5)

32 posted on 03/31/2013 4:43:37 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Of course.

I’m in a chocolate coma right now.


33 posted on 03/31/2013 5:10:53 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: Tax-chick
Churches SHOULD be welcoming to sinners. How else would any of us be welcome there? Granted we may not be BIG sinners, but sin is sin, and we're all in need of God's Grace to overcome it. If sinners aren't there, where else will they hear God's Word?

The problem comes when Churches start to mitigate their message so as not to offend those sinners. The Episcopal Church and some of the Methodist and Lutheran churches have done this, to their detriment. If the Church doesn't change the message, I don't see the problem with inviting those who are public sinners to be there to hear it.

34 posted on 03/31/2013 5:14:36 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Tax-chick

Dishonest celibacy among Catholic priests is just as wrong as dishonest matrimony between protestant clerics. In the Catholic church, it has had disastrous results with young boys. Mandatory celibacy may be the root cause of two billion dollars to victims of priest-perpetrated sexual abuse.

What needs to be addressed is the practice of mandatory celibacy. Christ said it was never intended to be mandatory but was for a few chosen by God. This thinking needs to balanced with the idea that a few men are also chosen for the priesthood and marriage. This practice may have had its origins in the 12th century, where before, some popes handed the pope-hood to their sons.

The Catholic Church has had bizarre notions about sexuality from its early history. For instance, in the year 400, Council of Carthage decreed that bishops, priests and deacons abstain from conjugal relations: “It is fitting that the holy bishops and priests of God as well as the Levites, i.e. those who are in the service of the divine sacraments, observe perfect continence, so that they may obtain in all simplicity what they are asking from God; what the Apostles taught and what antiquity itself observed, let us also endeavor to keep... It pleases us all that bishop, priest and deacon, guardians of purity, abstain from conjugal intercourse with their wives, so that those who serve at the altar may keep a perfect chastity.”

We also know about the practice of castrating young boys so their voices would continue to sing in high notes when in 1599, Pope Clement VIII gave the ok for the production of castrati for such purposes. Why did they do this? Because of the Catholic Church’s distorted view of women and sexuality. This practice was done for about 280 years because women, who did have the vocal range, were forbidden to sing in the Catholic Churches.

What is important here is that the Catholic Church has held traditions that has lived in the fantasy world of utopian ideals. However, because of a learning process, the Catholic Church has learned that the earth is round and not the center of the universe. For the most part, it has grown to be an important force for the good of mankind. It is because of the church’s history of faults that its critics use to attack it. I just want the church to continue its positive role in human history by doing better.

I give the best Catholic teaching on marriage. It is called CASTI CONNUBII, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI ON CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE DECEMBER 31, 1930. If the Catholic Church would uphold the teachings of this encyclical, it would continue in its best traditions of upholding what is important for human destiny:

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11CASTI.HTM


35 posted on 03/31/2013 5:28:01 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
It's incredible. Jaw-dropping. But true. You cannot count on "normal" married people, even Christian married people, to be your allies anymore.

Sad, isn't it? Folks have gotten so worried about appearing bigoted, or even worse, in today's culture, unsophisticated, they'll go right along with it.

I think that one reason the younger generation is so easy with it is that they have a keen sense of 'justice', and they've been told that homosexuality is a 'civil right', so to deny homosexuals whatever they want is discrimination. Younger folks have only ever seen homosexuals presented in positive manner in the media, so to be against them must be bad.

36 posted on 03/31/2013 5:32:39 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: jonrick46
Christ said it was never intended to be mandatory but was for a few chosen by God.

Any man who is considering the priesthood knows full well that celibacy is part of the deal. There are many years of preparation, so a man has many chances to change his mind. I'd say that by the time a man is ordained, he CAN be considered 'chosen by God'.

37 posted on 03/31/2013 5:40:52 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Heart-Rest
It's unspeakably discouraging when wafflers like Cardinal Wuerl (DC) and Cardinal Dolan (NY) rise to positions of huge prestige in the U.S. Church on the basis of their ability to grin and give away the store.

I've deleted line after line here, casting about trying to express my disgust for their studied ambiguity and straight-ahead surrender. How in the devil's name did they get to be where they are? We're doomed.

Are we doomed?

:o(

Not good thoughts for Easter.

38 posted on 03/31/2013 5:52:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Tax-chick

And open adulterers and fornicators, too, right? How about open racists? Thieves and perjurers?

Where does the “welcoming” of open and unrepentant sinners end?


A little east of Kennedy-sized bank accounts; and a bit west of Pelosi-sized political power.


39 posted on 03/31/2013 6:28:18 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: jonrick46; Tax-chick; SuzyQ
Jonrick, your observations here are interesting and of course well-intended, and deserve to be considered thoughtfully. I'm afraid I won't do it justicve, because I'm soon to bed. But let me tuck in here jut a bit.

I am not convinced that celibacy is at the root of the homosexual problem. I think a vow of celibacy and a vow of marimony are about equally hard to live long term and in the right way. Neither vow provides impervious armor against unchastity, but both help --- with the grace of God.

In my opinion, as many men have sought "cover" for their homosexual liaisons under cover of wedding vows as under vows of celibacy. Surely in milieux where almost all adults were married and there was no real option for clerical celibacy (say, in Victorian London--- the Uranian pederast poets --- or in early 20th century England --- the Bloomsbury Group), most of the active gays were married men and woman. Oscar Wilde. VIrginia Woolf. John Maynard Keynes. Need I say more?

The phenomenon of castrati singers was far more complicated than you have written: and it was not a matter of the uptight Medieval church ideals warping the society, but of worldly Renaissance standards (especially the ideals of high art) infiltrating and warping the Church.

You must be aware that intentional castration was always against Church law. The practice was canonically condemned. But because a particular type of music dramatically benefited from castrato vocal qualities (sweetness, power, range), they became highly valued both in church choirs and in increasingly lavish secular musical productions.

This was not a a product of the Church Fathers --- you know that castrati were not eligible for clerical orders, and those who maimed boys could be excommunicated and turned over to "the secular arm" for dire punishment. Nor was it a product of the requirements of Medieval Music and the Gregorian Chant. The demand came from worldly Renaissance culture. It happened in violation of, not in accordance with, Church law.

Was there ever a vice that was not propagated by disobedient Catholics, swayed by their Zeitgeist, despising Divine and Natural Law, and given license by corrupt clerics? (Men of their times!!)

Good sport, though: citing people (including popes) who coarsely violated Catholic faith and morals, and then abhorring the corrupt creatures and blaming --- of course! --- Catholicism. I could go on, but --- sorry, Ive got to get to bed. Up early tomorrow.

Thanks for sparking this discussion.

40 posted on 03/31/2013 6:39:53 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: SuziQ

There are strong arguments for celibacy as a discipline that strengthens the man who succeeds in becoming one of those “chosen.” It is like a boot camp for learning the self sacrifice of Christ. There are other ways to get the boot camp.

The Church has had many traditions that have gone by the wayside of history. One of them was the marriage of priests. It was not until the eleventh century that the Second Lateran Council laid down in writing for the first time that priests should not marry nor have sex. It established that clerical celibacy became effectively obligatory. What I would like to see is this mandate become a matter of choice. We have church deacons who are married that are very effective in the church. Why not offer them the seminary training and let them become priests?

It has been found that when Pope Benedict XVI allowed married Lutheran and Anglican clergy to become Catholic priests, they were found to be very effective priests. Why not learn from this lesson? There has to be ways to train a priest how to become the Bride of Christ in a non symbolic manner without the indoctrination process it has used throughout the centuries.


41 posted on 03/31/2013 6:42:10 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"Not good thoughts for Easter."

I know what you mean!

But, while this season contains such overwhelming sadness (the Crucifixion), it also contains the greatest hope for all of us (the Resurrection).

While all of the original apostles skedaddled and scurried like bugs for cover at first due to their fears and cowardice, eventually, all but one returned to the fullness of their calls, and overcame their initial fears.   (And their times were very scary, and the cultures they worked in were filled with all kinds of disgusting perversions and obscenities too.)

(And, do any of our American Bishops sort of remind you right now of Peter in his denials, or the other original apostles in deep hiding at first from their cultural challenges?)

In the era I grew up in, I never thought that Americans would have to face the horrors of martyrdom, but now it is beginning to sound at least possible.

We have to pray for each other, and pray for all our Bishops and Priests, for the Holy Spirit to fill all of us and empower all of us to deal with whatever comes our way in these weird and ominous times.

In the mean time, cheer up Mrs. Don-o, and a Happy and Blessed Easter time to you!   (I'll pray for you --- please pray for me.)

42 posted on 03/31/2013 6:55:26 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("God is Love" 1 John 4:8)
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To: Olog-hai
What's next - Biological FACT is hate speech?
Sex, Evolution and Behavior
By Martin Daly and Margo Wilson
 
 
Got Socio-Biological Fitness?
 
 "Gay" penguins don't - not even in the San Francisco zoo
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=San+Francisco+gay+penguins
 
FAIL.

43 posted on 03/31/2013 7:25:50 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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vulva
anus

44 posted on 03/31/2013 7:39:43 PM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Are we doomed?

No ... those who persevere in the Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ are not doomed.

God grant that we may be among that number.

45 posted on 03/31/2013 8:05:59 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Olog-hai
D.C. Archbishop Wuerl Fears Catholic Marriage Beliefs Seen as Hate Speech...back-peddling and equivocating like this sure make it easier for those wanting to make the Church's beliefs look like hate speech to achieve their goal......
46 posted on 03/31/2013 9:51:11 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: jonrick46
some popes handed the pope-hood to their sons.

name one instance of this happening.

47 posted on 03/31/2013 10:05:53 PM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: Steelfish
Cardinal Wuerl was the one who transferred a visiting priest who refused to administer the Eucharist to a pro-abortionist.

Correction: Father Marcel Guarnizo refused Communion to an open, militant lesbian, Barbara Johnson, at her mother's funeral Mass.

48 posted on 03/31/2013 10:06:35 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: jtal

St. Anastasius, pope from 399 to 401, was succeeded by his son, Pope St. Innocent I, and a century later Pope St. Hormisdas’ son, St. Silverius, also was elected to the papacy.


49 posted on 03/31/2013 10:39:49 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: jonrick46
Mandatory celibacy may be the root cause of two billion dollars to victims of priest-perpetrated sexual abuse.

A specious, at best, argument which provides no explanation for the behavior of public education employees or these Baptists or other protestants. None of these groups can use celibacy as a crutch for explaining their crimes. Why do you use celibacy as a crutch to explain the criminal behavior of perverts masquerading as Catholic Priests?

What needs to be addressed is the practice of mandatory celibacy.

What needs to be repeatedly addressed, and is every time someone like you makes these silly ill-informed arguments, is the ignorance people possess on this topic. I doubt you understand that no man seeking Holy Orders is forced to embrace celibacy. Celibacy in the Latin Rite is a requirement for ordination but it is a discipline that is freely embraced. If one discerns in the seven years, on average, they are in formation that celibacy is not for them they are free to seek another vocation. No one has a right to the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Also, 21 of the 22 Churches sui juris which comprise the Catholic Church, ordain, as a norm, married men. Those seeking ordination have 22 options, again proving your contention to be a false one.

This practice may have had its origins in the 12th century,

Although I doubt you'll be able to comprehend the following, you are in dire need of reading it. Unless of course you take great pleasure in exposing yourself on the web as a fool.

The Catholic Church has had bizarre notions about sexuality from its early history.

I suppose you consider the teaching in Scripture about sexuality as bizarre too, assuming that you are consistent.

For instance, in the year 400, Council of Carthage decreed that bishops, priests and deacons abstain from conjugal relations:

I suggest you familiarize yourself with Canons XXVII and XXXIII of the Council of Elvira, which predate Carthage by a century.

However, because of a learning process, the Catholic Church has learned that the earth is round and not the center of the universe.

It's telling that you skirt the issue of the Church and science but you make no mention that Copernicus, a Catholic Priest, championed heliocentrism 21 years before the birth of Galileo. Copernicus was attacked by protestants, including Luther, Calvin and Melanchthon. Kepler, a protestant, had to flee his country because he was attacked, unanimously, by the protestant faculty at the University of Tubingen for writing "damnable heresy". Kepler was given refuge by the Jesuits and given a teaching position in a Catholic university by the Pope himself. Incidentally, Aristotle and Ptolemy rejected heliocentrism.

I just want the church to continue its positive role in human history by doing better.

Sure you do. If anyone believes that nonsense, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Behind every double standard lies an unconfessed single standard.

50 posted on 03/31/2013 10:59:12 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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