What's next - Biological FACT is hate speech?
Got Socio-Biological Fitness?
"Gay" penguins don't - not even in the San Francisco zoo
FAIL.
Posted on 03/31/2013 12:48:50 PM PDT by Olog-hai
The archbishop of Washington says that while the church is welcoming of everyone, including gay people, he fears the possibility of the church’s position that marriage is only for a man and a woman will be seen as bigotry or hate speech.
Cardinal Donald Wuerl, appearing on Fox News Sunday, said the church can be welcoming of gay people who are legally married without recognizing those marriages within the church itself. …
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
There are strong arguments for celibacy as a discipline that strengthens the man who succeeds in becoming one of those “chosen.” It is like a boot camp for learning the self sacrifice of Christ. There are other ways to get the boot camp.
The Church has had many traditions that have gone by the wayside of history. One of them was the marriage of priests. It was not until the eleventh century that the Second Lateran Council laid down in writing for the first time that priests should not marry nor have sex. It established that clerical celibacy became effectively obligatory. What I would like to see is this mandate become a matter of choice. We have church deacons who are married that are very effective in the church. Why not offer them the seminary training and let them become priests?
It has been found that when Pope Benedict XVI allowed married Lutheran and Anglican clergy to become Catholic priests, they were found to be very effective priests. Why not learn from this lesson? There has to be ways to train a priest how to become the Bride of Christ in a non symbolic manner without the indoctrination process it has used throughout the centuries.
I know what you mean!
But, while this season contains such overwhelming sadness (the Crucifixion), it also contains the greatest hope for all of us (the Resurrection).
While all of the original apostles skedaddled and scurried like bugs for cover at first due to their fears and cowardice, eventually, all but one returned to the fullness of their calls, and overcame their initial fears. (And their times were very scary, and the cultures they worked in were filled with all kinds of disgusting perversions and obscenities too.)
(And, do any of our American Bishops sort of remind you right now of Peter in his denials, or the other original apostles in deep hiding at first from their cultural challenges?)
In the era I grew up in, I never thought that Americans would have to face the horrors of martyrdom, but now it is beginning to sound at least possible.
We have to pray for each other, and pray for all our Bishops and Priests, for the Holy Spirit to fill all of us and empower all of us to deal with whatever comes our way in these weird and ominous times.
In the mean time, cheer up Mrs. Don-o, and a Happy and Blessed Easter time to you! (I'll pray for you --- please pray for me.)
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No ... those who persevere in the Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ are not doomed.
God grant that we may be among that number.
name one instance of this happening.
Correction: Father Marcel Guarnizo refused Communion to an open, militant lesbian, Barbara Johnson, at her mother's funeral Mass.
St. Anastasius, pope from 399 to 401, was succeeded by his son, Pope St. Innocent I, and a century later Pope St. Hormisdas’ son, St. Silverius, also was elected to the papacy.
A specious, at best, argument which provides no explanation for the behavior of public education employees or these Baptists or other protestants. None of these groups can use celibacy as a crutch for explaining their crimes. Why do you use celibacy as a crutch to explain the criminal behavior of perverts masquerading as Catholic Priests?
What needs to be addressed is the practice of mandatory celibacy.
What needs to be repeatedly addressed, and is every time someone like you makes these silly ill-informed arguments, is the ignorance people possess on this topic. I doubt you understand that no man seeking Holy Orders is forced to embrace celibacy. Celibacy in the Latin Rite is a requirement for ordination but it is a discipline that is freely embraced. If one discerns in the seven years, on average, they are in formation that celibacy is not for them they are free to seek another vocation. No one has a right to the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Also, 21 of the 22 Churches sui juris which comprise the Catholic Church, ordain, as a norm, married men. Those seeking ordination have 22 options, again proving your contention to be a false one.
This practice may have had its origins in the 12th century,
Although I doubt you'll be able to comprehend the following, you are in dire need of reading it. Unless of course you take great pleasure in exposing yourself on the web as a fool.
The Catholic Church has had bizarre notions about sexuality from its early history.
I suppose you consider the teaching in Scripture about sexuality as bizarre too, assuming that you are consistent.
For instance, in the year 400, Council of Carthage decreed that bishops, priests and deacons abstain from conjugal relations:
I suggest you familiarize yourself with Canons XXVII and XXXIII of the Council of Elvira, which predate Carthage by a century.
However, because of a learning process, the Catholic Church has learned that the earth is round and not the center of the universe.
It's telling that you skirt the issue of the Church and science but you make no mention that Copernicus, a Catholic Priest, championed heliocentrism 21 years before the birth of Galileo. Copernicus was attacked by protestants, including Luther, Calvin and Melanchthon. Kepler, a protestant, had to flee his country because he was attacked, unanimously, by the protestant faculty at the University of Tubingen for writing "damnable heresy". Kepler was given refuge by the Jesuits and given a teaching position in a Catholic university by the Pope himself. Incidentally, Aristotle and Ptolemy rejected heliocentrism.
I just want the church to continue its positive role in human history by doing better.
Sure you do. If anyone believes that nonsense, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Behind every double standard lies an unconfessed single standard.
Nope.
Innocent I was not the son of Anastasius.
Hormisdas was married and widowed before being ordained. He did indeed have son from this period who later became pope Silverius. But this was over ten years after his death and hardly qualifies as “passing down” the papacy. Furthermore this was in the 6th Century. If celibacy was “introduced” for this reason why did they wait 600 years?
Try again.
Revisionist history.
It has been found that when Pope Benedict XVI allowed married Lutheran and Anglican clergy to become Catholic priests, they were found to be very effective priests.
More revisionist history. The Pastoral Provision for Anglican converts and the dispensation from celibacy for other protestant converts was the work of Blessed Pope John Paul II, not Benedict XVI. Benedict XVI simply continued the policies of his predecessor and expanded it with his Personal Ordinariate for entire groups of Anglicans in Great Britain, Wales and the United States. You fail to note that prior to ordination, said converts must agree that if their spouse precedes them in death they will then adopt the discipline of celibacy for the rest of their life. No agreement, no ordination. Also, for want of a better term, the career path of these converts is extremely limited.
I think the only good thing that can come out of this is that perhaps it will force so many Christians who vote democrat, to wake up and finally realize that the left wants to destroy them.
I have been to a few Catholic message boards and quite a few posters who have been lifetime Democratic supporters (all because of “social justice”) are now expressing tremendous remorse.
“Must that grave, ennobling obligation remain today for those who have the intention of receiving major orders?”
“Is it possible and appropriate nowadays to observe such an obligation?”
“Has the time come to break the bond linking celibacy with the priesthood in the Church?”
“Could this difficult observance of it not be made optional?”
“Would this not be a way to help the priestly ministers and facilitate ecumenical approaches?”
“And if the golden law of sacred celibacy is to remain, what reasons are there to show that it is holy and fitting?”
“What means are to be taken to observe it and, how can it be changed from a burden to help for the priestly life?”
It is this preoccupation with the burdon of celibacy that takes the Church away from its more important duty: working for the sacrament of marriage.
For your reading I suggest this reading, The Disputed Case for Clerical Celibacy By Robert J. Willis, Ph.D.:
Good points. How exactly would a priest welcome a homosexual couple to his parish? Hello, Tim and Bob, welcome to our church supper! Have a seat wherever you like.
During the dinner, the host could stand up and introduce newcomers around the room. Welcome everybody! We’ve got a few newcomers here.
Tell us you’re from and how you met! At a San Francisco bathhouse? He was your 8th partner of the night? How romantic! We traditional Catholics must get out more.
Friendly, welcoming chuckles all around,
It’s a lot like the RINO Republicans going after Hispanics, and amnesty.
They seem to seek the new at the expense of possibly losing their base.
Catholicism is a religion with long traditions. Break the traditions and lose the basic faith.Look what happened to the Nuns when they came out of their habits.
“I could wring Cardinal Wuerl’s neck, except I'm pretty sure that would be a canonical delict.”
It's only a delict if you wring his neck because he's a Catholic cardinal. If you wring his neck because he's duplicitous jerk, more interested in the praise of men than in protecting the flock of Washington, then you're good to go.
sitetest
“Cardinal Wuerl was the one who transferred a visiting priest who refused to administer the Eucharist to a pro-abortionist.”
A pro-abortionist Buddhist lesbian.
Source?
Sacerdotalis Coelibatus(sic)
Again, it's very telling that you omit the answers to those questions and the conclusion of Paul VI in SACERDOTALIS CAELIBATUS when he wrote:
CONCLUSION
98. Venerable brothers, pastors of God's flock throughout the world, and dearly beloved priests, Our sons and brothers: as We come to the end of this letter which We have addressed to you, We invite you, with a soul responsive to Christ's great love, to turn your eyes and heart with renewed confidence and filial hope to the most loving Mother of Jesus and Mother of the Church, and to invoke for the Catholic priesthood her powerful and maternal intercession. In her the People of God admire and venerate the image of the Church, and model of faith, charity and perfect union with Him. May Mary Virgin and Mother obtain for the Church, which also is hailed as virgin and mother, (150) to rejoice always, though with due humility, in the faithfulness of her priests to the sublime gift of holy virginity they have received, and to see it flourishing and appreciated ever more and more in every walk of life, so that the army of those who "follow the divine Lamb wherever He goes'' (151) may increase throughout the earth.
99. The Church proclaims her hope in Christ; she is conscious of the critical shortage of priests when compared with the spiritual necessities of the world's population; but she is confident in her expectation which is founded on the infinite and mysterious power of grace, that the high spiritual quality of her ministers will bring about an increase also in their numbers, for everything is possible to God. (l52)
In this faith and in this hope, may the apostolic blessing which we impart with all Our heart be for all a pledge of heavenly graces and the testimony of Our fatherly affection.
Given at Rome, at St. Peter's, June 24, 1967, the feast of St. John the Baptist, in the fifth year of Our pontificate.
PAUL VI
You also neglect to include the writing of Pope John Paul II in PASTORES DABO VOBIS
50. The spiritual formation of one who is called to live celibacy should pay particular attention to preparing the future priest so that he may know, appreciate, love and live celibacy according to its true nature and according to its real purposes, that is, for evangelical, spiritual and pastoral motives. The virtue of chastity is a premise for this preparation and is its content. It colors all human relations and leads "to experiencing and showing...a sincere, human, fraternal and personal love, one that is capable of sacrifice, following Christ's example, a love for all and for each person."(151)
The celibacy of priests brings with it certain characteristics thanks to which they "renounce marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven (cf. Mt. 19:12) and hold fast to their Lord with that undivided love which is profoundly in harmony with the new covenant; they bear witness to the resurrection in a future life (cf. Lk. 20:36) and obtain the most useful assistance toward the constant exercise of that perfect charity by which they can become all things to all men in their priestly ministry."(152) And so priestly celibacy should not be considered just as a legal norm or as a totally external condition for admission to ordination, but rather as a value that is profoundly connected with ordination, whereby a man takes on the likeness of Jesus Christ, the good shepherd and spouse of the Church, and therefore as a choice of a greater and undivided love for Christ and his Church, as a full and joyful availability in his heart for the pastoral ministry. Celibacy is to be considered as a special grace, as a gift, for "not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given" (Mt. 1911). Certainly it is a grace which does not dispense with, but counts most definitely on, a conscious and free response on the part of the receiver. This charism of the Spirit also brings with it the grace for the receiver to remain faithful to it for all his life and be able to carry out generously and joyfully its concomitant commitments. Formation in priestly celibacy should also include helping people to be aware of the "precious gift of God,"(153) which will lead to prayer and to vigilance in guarding the gift from anything which could put it under threat. (emphasis added)
Through his celibate life, the priest will be able to fulfill better his ministry on behalf of the People of God. In particular, as he witnesses to the evangelical value of virginity, he will be able to aid Christian spouses to live fully the "great sacrament" of the love of Christ the bridegroom for his spouse the Church, just as his own faithfulness to celibacy will help them to be faithful to each other as husband and wife.(154)
The importance of a careful preparation for priestly celibacy, especially in the social and cultural situations that we see today, led the synod fathers to make a series of requests which have a permanent value, as the wisdom of our mother the Church confirms. I authoritatively set them down again as criteria to be followed in formation for chastity in celibacy: "Let the bishops together with the rectors and spiritual directors of the seminaries establish principles, offer criteria and give assistance for discernment in this matter. Of the greatest importance for formation for chastity in celibacy are the bishop's concern and fraternal life among priests. In the seminary, that is, in the program of formation, celibacy should be presented clearly, without any ambiguities and in a positive fashion. The seminarian should have a sufficient degree of psychological and sexual maturity as well as an assiduous and authentic life of prayer, and he should put himself under the direction of a spiritual father. The spiritual director should help the seminarian so that he himself reaches a mature and free decision, which is built on esteem for priestly friendship and self - discipline, as well as on the acceptance of solitude and on a physically and psychologically sound personal state. Therefore, seminarians should have a good knowledge of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, of the encyclical Sacerdotalis Coelibatus and the Instruction for Formation in Priestly Celibacy published by the Congregation for Catholic Education in 1974. In order that the seminarian may be able to embrace priestly celibacy for the kingdom of heaven with a free decision, he needs to know the Christian and truly human nature and purpose of sexuality in marriage and in celibacy. It is necessary also to instruct and educate the lay faithful regarding the evangelical, spiritual and pastoral reasons proper to priestly celibacy so that they will help priests with their friendship, understanding and cooperation."(155)
Since you're a fan of the Vatican, I suggest you carefully and methodically read the following:
The biblical foundation of priestly celibacy
I also pose the question to you that if celibacy is the root cause of the shortage of Priests in the Latin Rite and if doing away with it would be the panacea that you suggest it would, why is there a shortage of Priests in the 21 Churches in the Eastern Rites that already ordain, as a norm, married men?
Kindly provide the CV for Robert J. Willis. Your choice of an economist to support your argument is illuminating, to say the least.
>:o}
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