Posted on 04/04/2013 6:47:18 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Thousands of Americans are sent to jail not for committing a crime, but because they can't afford to pay for traffic tickets, medical bills and court fees.
If that sounds like a debtors' prison, a legal relic which was abolished in this country in the 1830s, that's because it is. And courts and judges in states across the land are violating the Constitution by incarcerating people for being unable to pay such debts.
Ask Jack Dawley, 55, an unemployed man in Ohio who between 2007 and 2012 spent a total of 16 days in jail in a Huron County lock-up for failing to pay roughly $1,500 in legal fines he'd incurred in the 1990s. The fines stemmed from Dawley's convictions for driving under the influence and other offenses. After his release from a Wisconsin correctional facility, Dawley, who admits he had struggled with drugs and alcohol, got clean. But if he put his substance problems behind him, Dawley's couldn't outrun his debts.
Struggling to find a job and dealing with the effects of a back injury, he fell behind on repayments to the municipal court in Norwalk, Ohio. He was arrested six years ago and sent to jail for not paying his original court fines. Although Dawley was put on a monthly payment plan, during his latest stint behind bars in 2012 the court ordered him to pay off his entire remaining debt.
" I called my brother, and they told him I have to pay off the whole fine in order for me to get out," he said. "That was $900. So I sat my whole 10 days [in jail.]"
Such stories are by no means unusual. Rather, they reflect a justice system that in effect criminalizes poverty....
(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...
IOW, you have not read the article. This is NOT A LOAN. It is a time payment schedule produced by a COURT to get their fines paid. The court placed a fine, not loaned him any money.
To you, it is obvious that it is a just debt. Tell that to the judge when he fines you $10,000 for owning a gun! Tell it to the judge when you are pulled for driving too fast in a school zone, and just lost YOUR income... and cannot pay the fines and fees. I got a speeding ticket last year for driving 12 mph over the speed limit. The fine was only $25. The court fees added another $185!!!
Also, a lien is placed after a COURT adjudicates any debt, and when it is confirmed and just, a chattel is placed upon the real and personal property of the debtor. When the debt is still not paid, there is a process to transfer the property in a legal manner. But, it is stupid to think that putting somebody into jail, at the expense of others, is a proper resolution.
It seems you are just all about retribution, and have no sympathy for those who fall by the way. I feel differently.
As a Christian, I have paid for others debts, and I have also helped to improve the lives of the unfortunate. Jesus paid the ultimate price for a debt I cannot repay. Sorry, you don't apparently don't know Him! The attitude presented in your posts is anything but Christian. I will add you to my prayer list!
Your brother-in-law needs an attorney...
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I agree ,, but he’s stupid ... he’s happy to collect unemployment and tell the bill collectors from the hospital to get lost.. It’d be a hard case to win ,, the cops did drop the charges , the phone call would be a cop (lying) against 2 harmed parties (employer harmed by cost of finding/training new employee) ,, court would go with the cop. He DID smell of alcohol from the sanitizer which would be difficult also...
My point was simply that through absolutely no fault of your own you can EASILY find yourself in a huge mess... Quite simply he’s gone Galt and I don’t blame him one bit.
Amen!!!
Traffic tickets is what they charge different rates for. Different rates for speeding or running a red light is not fair in my view.
hehe
My brother, many years ago when a young single guy, noticed that speeding tickets were much cheaper than speeding tickets, so his modus operandi became running stop signs and lights when in a hurry, but was careful about speed!
Are you sure the European approach to fines — scaling them to income or assets — really constitutes socialism, rather than justice?
It does not involve the state owning or otherwise controlling economic production, no businesses have been nationalized, and fines do not generally contribute significantly to income redistribution schemes.
Do you really think it just that when a person earning minimum wage is hit with a $1000 fine for, say disorderly conduct, plus court costs of $200, it deprives him of about a month’s before tax income, while someone who making in the six figures can do exactly the same thing and regard the fine and court-costs as a mere nuisance, and someone making in the mid-eight figures (think rock stars or professional athletes) could pay the fine with pocket change? Is it just that the rich rowdy can behave with more-or-less impunity, while the poor rowdy may go hungry or be thrown out of his home, or be imprisoned for choosing to eat and pay rent rather than pay the fine and court costs?
????
Its sounds like he didn’t pay fines for stuff he was convicted of, and guilty too. I miss the point.
Nothing in the story says he was jailed for failing to pay his ‘bills’
Documentation File on the negative impact of the Obamanation Counterculture on America.
I don’t get it.
I don’t think jail is appropriate but the same punishment for the exact same crime is justice in my opinion. If you are talking about destruction of property, then damages would be assessed on the property value, as I believe it is now. If there is no justice, what is to stop poor people from disobeying all traffic laws and destroying property as in your example if they know they won’t be charged a fine because they have no money?
That’s a horrible story. It seems that he could sue the police dept.
The stupidity is that it cost the government (taxpayers) a lot more than what he owed.
I would have had him pick up trash.
Having been on the wrong end of the non repay back of loans equations a few times, I tend to be on your side.
How’s the policy to beat deadbeat dads going for y’all? ;-)
See involuntary servitude, threat to compel to work, Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241 – Conspiracy Against Rights, Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242 – Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law (”alien,” etc.), Fourteenth Amendment (equal protection), cases,...
Amendment XIII
Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
America 2013 is a fascist police state.
Sure people need to pay for their mistakes - the example is a guy who did a bit of drink driving and was rightly punished for it - but does he deserve to be still paying? How long does and should a punishment last?
For sure there are laws for the common good and there should be penalties for infraction of them. But hold on, should not the punishment also fit the crime? A $100 fine would be a significant pain for me, and probably quite a lot of people, but a millionaire doesnt care about something like that - so how is that a punishment to them? How can it possibly even be a deterrent? And if its not a deterrent then the rich person could just keep on doing the infraction over and over again. They become, effectively, above the law. And that can't be right.
Maybe the answer is not to fine people the same flat fee, but the same proportion of their income. Shouldnt be too hard to figure something like that.
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