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1- "Background gun check records are saved."
Gunlaws.com | April, 2013 | Alan Korwin

Posted on 04/05/2013 10:13:28 AM PDT by marktwain

The lamestream media told you:

It's only reasonable, and studies show the overwhelming majority of Americans support universal background checks. We're not talking about registering guns.

The Uninvited Ombudsman notes however that:

How soon we forget. When the NICS computer was built and turned on by attorney general Janet Reno, in compliance with the Brady bill in 1994, she announced that the system not only would not erase records immediately after a gun-buyer background check as required by law, it could NOT erase records at all. She said it with a straight face, to Congress.

The Justice Dept. under Bill Clinton, had built a computer capable of checking out every American, from one spot in West Virginia, controlled by the FBI, a dream project the Bureau was dying for, and the quarter-billion dollar computer was incapable of deleting a record. That's what Janet Reno wanted us to believe, it's what she told us, and who knows -- maybe it's exactly what she built. We have no way to know. [Note: C'mon it's a computer, there's no such thing as one that can't delete a file, she lied through her teeth, had planned this all along].

Congress went wild, because the bill that authorized the monster computer (read, buildings full of equipment and staff) required that background check records be destroyed instantly after the background check was completed. Congress was well aware, and had been pressured incessantly by its constituents, not to start creating rosters of gun owners. The only way the background check got in the bill at all was with instant destruction of the record mandatory. Turns out statute didn't matter much to the feds.

Gun-owner registries are the start of confiscations, everyone knew that, history proved it over and over all last century. Now the government had gone and done that very thing, directly against the law. The so-called background check computer was a recording device.

They use the same machine today of course and no, you can't look at it. The FBI, which knew the Brady bill was its one vehicle for their much-coveted one-stop-shopping ID checker, didn't scrap it and start over. They only had this shot at the $250 million needed to build the thing, including the "campus" features, ongoing operating costs, and of course the upgrades, maintenance, and literal federal jobs program that goes with it. But it's still the NICS system Janet Reno gave us, retrofitted to erase some records somehow, probably. There is no way to know. The FBI will not allow you in for an independent audit.

It's worse than that. Multiple federal sources have revealed that the information checking infrastructure of the NICS system, and its interconnected NCIC and III data systems, link with international sources of criminal data. Record destruction is not a requirement anywhere but here (and even here it can be disregarded at will, as we've seen), so "privacy" might as well all be wishful thinking. On top of this, ten consecutive sets of backups are made, it's routine, according to agents within the FBI, and these are sequentially stored and destroyed, over some time frame, on and off site... it's complicated.

The government has already told us that background check records are saved. It has built a system designed to save records and register gun owners, with no way to behave differently, in direct defiance of written law. It has provided no way to confirm that such records are not saved.

This is like hearing Iran continuously say they are not building nuclear weapons, while they continue to build their nuclear weapons. The calls for universal background checks are a deception. The NICS background check system is designed as and fully functional as a record storage system and federal gun registry. The risks it presents to freedom is so significantly great it should be dismantled, and replaced with the equally effective, far less expensive, non-invasive transparency of the BIDS system.

GUN REGISTRATION BUILT INTO BACKGROUND CHECKS


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: alankorwin; backgroundchecks; banglist; fbi; govtabuse; gunchecks; guncheckssaved; guncontrol; gunlaws; gunubc; korwin; secondamendment; tyranny; ubc; youwillnotdisarmus

1 posted on 04/05/2013 10:13:28 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Here is a link to Alan Korwin’s site, gunlaws.com:

http://www.gunlaws.com/BIDSvNICS.htm


2 posted on 04/05/2013 10:14:24 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain
So they already register our guns illegally they just want to make it legal now?

Remember everything that the Nazies and Stalinists did was legal. We need to reread our Declaration of Independence.

3 posted on 04/05/2013 10:30:11 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again,")
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To: marktwain

Did you really think, even for a minute, that the lying S.O.B.s were ever going to erase anything?


4 posted on 04/05/2013 10:39:17 AM PDT by skimbell
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To: skimbell

My local gun shop told me they have to save 20 YEARS worth of 4473s.


5 posted on 04/05/2013 10:43:21 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: marktwain

I guess i watch too many cops shows
where they trace guns to owners through the serial numbers.

Do real police really do that?


6 posted on 04/05/2013 10:48:02 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: RWGinger

yes, they track serials and can find you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/28/dawn-nguyen-arrested_n_2377285.html
(I know, HP, take a shower after you get offline :) )

“Police used the serial numbers on the rifle and shotgun, which were purchased on June 6, 2010, to trace them to Nguyen, Hochul said.”


7 posted on 04/05/2013 10:58:50 AM PDT by PissAndVinegar
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To: PissAndVinegar

so we already have a national registry?


8 posted on 04/05/2013 11:10:52 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: RWGinger
“I guess i watch too many cops shows
where they trace guns to owners through the serial numbers.

Do real police really do that?”

In California the records are tied to your DL so they access the info through the DMV. When a traffic stop is done and a handgun is found a request is made for what handguns are registered to the “suspect” using DL information. If the S/N and weapon description that are supplied to the requesting LEO don't match then the S/N of the weapon found are fed back to the dispatch and a location and name comes back. After that the “suspect” has some “splainin” to do

9 posted on 04/05/2013 11:14:15 AM PDT by Polynikes (Yo Homie. That my briefcase?)
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To: marktwain

I miss the rule of law. Hopefully it will be restored - soon. As part of that, we need to participate as jurors and nullify unconstitutional laws until they can be overturned or repealed. A law-abiding gun owner may lose personal property due to unconstitutional “laws”, but we should ensure that there are no felony convictions resulting from those laws.


10 posted on 04/05/2013 11:33:40 AM PDT by Pollster1 (A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable chance of success.)
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To: RWGinger; All

so we already have a national registry?

No. We have nascent components of a national registry, in direct violation of the law.

We do not have any legal mechanism, except for voting in enough congresscritters and a president who will sign a new law, to enforce the law on the books.

Everything the NAZIs did was legal. Our government does not even bother with the legalities, at least if they are Democrats. Republicans bother more to follow the law, because they have to work worry about being exposed by the MSM.


11 posted on 04/05/2013 11:35:37 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain
One sacred principle used by almost all data centers, and in particular government data centers, is to backup and archive everything. As a matter of fact, there are probably government laws requiring that every transaction be backed up, in the event of some legal matter years later.

The only question is whether all of our records are "online" for instant search, or whether they are merely archived for retrieval whenever some agency wants to see them. It won't make much of a difference if an order to confiscate comes down.

12 posted on 04/05/2013 11:52:35 AM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: rarestia
My local gun shop told me they have to save 20 YEARS worth of 4473s.

They are saved permanently. If/when the business closes, they are sent to the state's AG, where they are stored.

In effect, a state-by-state registry has already been put in place.
13 posted on 04/05/2013 11:55:04 AM PDT by frankenMonkey (A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud)
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To: marktwain

There was never any doubt that the reason for reporting the model, caliber, and serial number was for their permanent record. Anyone who tells you they aren’t keeping a database of owners and their firearms is a liar of an ignorant fool.


14 posted on 04/05/2013 11:56:10 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (The founding fathers didn't form this country by compromising.)
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To: marktwain

“When the NICS computer was built and turned on by attorney general Janet Reno, in compliance with the Brady bill in 1994, she announced that the system not only would not erase records immediately after a gun-buyer background check as required by law, it could NOT erase records at all. “

Federal documents. Kept forever.


15 posted on 04/05/2013 12:27:57 PM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: frankenMonkey

Federal 4473’s are required to be kept by the dealer until he closes shop. Then they must be sent to the ATF storage facility in WV....not the state AG.

The 1984 GOPA and other laws through the years have allegedly prevented them from being indexed or transferred to a data base by specifically prohibiting it and denying any funding for it. When a gun is traced....they start with finding out who the manufacturer shipped it to and then thru the chain (wholesaler to dealer) and finally a visit to review the 4473 bound books in the dealer shop. They then call the “registered” buyer to see what he did with the gun.

States may have different laws such as the ones that require their own BG check (CA?) or permit (NY?)....I would imagine.

However, the current federal system has let us sell these 4473 “registered” firearms to anyone “off the books”...so they drop out out sight unless they surface in a crime. The so called gunshow and private sale loophole.

So, even though you bought a gun 5 years ago....it cannot be proved you still own it....unless you are buying ammo or accessories for it on a charge card or or have been seen shooting it at a range....etc. Then they may well suspect you still own it or something like it. They aren’t stupid.

Bottom line...there are many ways to track/profile who has guns, without knowing the specific gun or number owned.

You will only be able to hide if they aren’t looking for you or at you.


16 posted on 04/05/2013 12:50:23 PM PDT by Lowell1775
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To: PLMerite

If you’ve ever had any contact with the construction of a large database or program as it’s being created you will know that they would have had to intentionally restrict it from erasing the data and not because it was something simple, like, no one in the room knew the proper code.

They are liars and criminals. Personally, I’m surprised that no one has $%^dfg%$^ Reno in her home by now for the crimes she committed against American citizens (namely American children). These people just walk the streets like it’s no big deal.

And they said that Ashcroft was radical.... it’s amazing really what they get away with.

We need a much, much weaker Federal government.


17 posted on 04/05/2013 12:52:54 PM PDT by Noamie
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To: Sender
The only question is whether all of our records are "online" for instant search, or whether they are merely archived for retrieval whenever some agency wants to see them. It won't make much of a difference if an order to confiscate comes down.

Depends largely upon how old the backup was, and if the data format is the same as current ones. For instance, if they were backing up using 9-track 6250-bpi tape in the late 80s to mid 90s, they may well have issues getting that data off the tapes unless they still have the tape drives handy to read them. Even if they do, they still have a good chance of getting read failures on the tapes. This is especially true for the cassette systems that used helical scan read/write heads (works kinda like a vcr tape head). Those are particularly sensitive to alignment issues, and don't keep well over time. A little tape stretch, and your backup isn't worth the plastic it's written on.

This is the upside of hardware obsolescence. The downside, of course, is the data that you would like for them to be able to recover, such as historical records for use with genealogical research is every bit as likely to suffer extreme losses due to bit rot.

18 posted on 04/05/2013 1:04:15 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."

Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787)

19 posted on 04/05/2013 1:06:49 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
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To: zeugma

I bought many of my guns way back before NICS, so there was only a paper form 4473 kept by the dealer. But I know that some of those dealers went out of business, and they were required to send in all their records when they closed. I don’t know whether they ended up in a filing cabinet or if they were scanned somehow. They know who I am anyway and where I live.


20 posted on 04/05/2013 1:21:24 PM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: Sender
They know who I am anyway and where I live.

I used to worry about such things.

Don't anymore. I'm pretty much ready to live or die depending upon the Lord's will.

21 posted on 04/05/2013 1:25:36 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: marktwain

THAT is an excellent distinction
and makes it evn more important to make sure a real national registry does not get passed

although I am not sure what the difference really is since one exists now, legal or not
and it is used by law enforcement
and i am sure the Dem party


22 posted on 04/05/2013 3:24:48 PM PDT by RWGinger
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