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Transgender man plans to keep seeking divorce (Marriage re-definition complicates divorce law)
Star Advertiser ^ | 04/05/2013 | Jacques Billeaud

Posted on 04/05/2013 11:47:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

A transgender former Honolulu man whose divorce request was rejected after his marriage was declared invalid plans to keep trying to get his 9-year union dissolved, saying Tuesday that he wants the three children to whom he gave birth to know their parents' marriage was legitimate.

Thomas Beatie, wearing a dress shirt and tie, said a judge's decision last week to reject his divorce request was a swipe against his identity and could cause problems for him down the road if he decides to remarry.

He also said the ruling underscores his belief that Arizona is unaccepting of transgender people, pointing out a proposal in the Legislature that seeks to shield businesses from liability if they ban people from restrooms that don't match their birth sex.

"This obviously is not Beatie versus Beatie," Thomas Beatie said as he spoke to reporters at his attorney's office. "This is the state of Arizona versus transgender people, human reproductive rights and fairness under law."

Beatie, who plans to appeal the ruling in his divorce case, was born Tracy Lehuanani Lagondino on Oahu and later underwent a double-mastectomy and began testosterone hormone therapy to become a man, but retained female reproductive organs and gave birth to three children. He married his partner Nancy in early 2003 in Honolulu and became pregnant because Nancy was unable to have children. Thomas Beatie conceived with donated sperm. The couple eventually moved to Arizona.

"Imagine what this is doing to my children," Beatie said as he held the hand of his girlfriend of one year. "In time, they are going to look back and see that a court said that's not your daddy. I'm sorry, that's who I am. I am my children's father."

Maricopa County Family Court Judge Douglas Gerlach ruled on Thursday that Arizona's ban on same-sex marriages prevents Beatie's marriage from being recognized as valid.

Gerlach said he had no jurisdiction to approve a divorce because there's insufficient evidence that Beatie was a man when he got married. The judge said the Beaties never provided records to fully explain what Thomas Beatie actually had done and not done to become a man. The ruling also noted that Thomas Beatie had halted the testosterone treatments.

Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights, which isn't involved in the Beatie case, said the decision doesn't set a precedent and instead applies only to the Thomas and Nancy Beatie. Still, Minter said the decision is legally flawed and demoralizing to transgender people.

The ruling saves Thomas Beatie from paying alimony to Nancy, but Thomas said he was willing to take on that financial obligation because he wanted a court to recognize his marriage.

He said moving back to Hawaii to start divorce proceedings there was impractical. It would likely separate him from his children, lead to heavier living expenses and require him to find new employment.

Michael Cantor, one of Thomas Beatie's attorneys, said Beatie could remarry in Arizona, but he could create conflicts in Hawaii, where Beatie's first marriage was viewed as valid and where he could later be accused of polygamy.

David Higgins, Nancy's attorney, said his client will likely join Thomas Beatie in his planned appeal of Gerlach's decision. "She recognizes Thomas as a male and recognizes that her marriage is valid," Higgins said.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: divorce; gaymarriage; homosexuality; samesexdivorce; ssm; transgender

Thomas Beatie (born Tracy Lehuanani Lagondino) speaks at his attorney's office in Phoenix.


Thomas Beatie, and his girlfriend Amber Nicholas, speak at their attorney's office, Tuesday, April 2, 2013, in Phoenix. Maricopa County Family Court Judge Douglas Gerlach ruled, March 29, 2013, that Arizona's ban on same-sex marriages prevents Thomas Beatie's 9-year union from being recognized as valid


Thomas Beatie, right, listens as attorney David Michael Cantor speaks Tuesday, April 2, 2013, in Phoenix.Beatie was born a woman and later underwent a double-mastectomy, and began testosterone hormone therapy and psychological treatment to become a man, but he retained female reproductive organs and gave birth to three children.
1 posted on 04/05/2013 11:47:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Soon God is going to step in and yell, “OK Everybody, Out of the Pool!”


2 posted on 04/05/2013 11:48:37 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

If you are not confused yet, here’s what this man/woman did:

Thomas Beatie was a Transgendered man who still had his female organs intact.

He chose to become pregnant because his “wife” Nancy was infertile, doing so with cryogenic donated sperm and a syringe, at home. Thomas wrote an article about the experience in The Advocate.

The Washington Post further broadened the story on March 25 when blogger Emil Steiner called Beatie the first “legally” pregnant man on record, in reference to certain states’ and federal legal recognition of Beatie as a man.

In 2010, Guinness World Records recognized Beatie as the world’s “First Married Man to Give Birth.”

Beatie gave birth to a girl named Susan Juliette Beatie on June 29, 2008.

Barbara Walters announced Beatie’s second pregnancy on The View,

and Beatie gave birth to a boy named Austin Alexander Beatie on June 9, 2009.

Beatie later gave birth to his third child, a boy named Jensen James Beatie, on July 25, 2010

Beatie has since had a phalloplasty to create an artificial penis and is also considering a hysterectomy.

For those who refused to be confused, Beatie is a woman who had a sex change to become a “man,” kept her female reproductive parts and has been labeled, incorrectly, by most of the media as the first “pregnant man.”

The baby came out of a vagina. A woman has a vagina.

So, Beatie is legally a man, but is really a woman who had a baby.


3 posted on 04/05/2013 11:55:59 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

"I'm so confused!"

4 posted on 04/05/2013 11:57:44 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Wait till marriage becomes anything anyone wants it to mean and you’ll be even MORE confused.


5 posted on 04/05/2013 11:59:06 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

He doesn’t have the right chromosomes to be a man. No surgery or hormone treatment can give you that.


6 posted on 04/05/2013 11:59:38 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: SeekAndFind
This article is soooo confusing!

When I read this "transgender former Honolulu man" I had to wonder whether this was "former man" living in Honolulu, or a "man" formerly living in Honolulu. On reading further, I discovered it was neither.
7 posted on 04/05/2013 11:59:50 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: SeekAndFind
This is what my ex-girlfriend refered to as a "hot mess".

/johnny

8 posted on 04/05/2013 12:00:47 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: SeekAndFind

I keep thinking back to this old Monty Python.....I’m sure I laughed at it back in the day, but now I don’t get the joke...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRvuXu1_iF0


9 posted on 04/05/2013 12:02:10 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: FReepers
Liberals

What Can You Say?

Donate

10 posted on 04/05/2013 12:11:17 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Let me see if I can make it understandable:

1) This person was born a woman in Hawaii.

2) She decided not to be a woman anymore and officially became transgendered. So, she is now a he.

3) Problem — She/he took male hormones but did not take her female organs out.

4) She/he married a woman. The marriage is recognized in Hawaii.

5) The woman could not bear children.

6) He/She decides to bear the children by insemination because his/her female organs are still intact.

7) He/she succeeds and bears 3 kids which he/she and his/her partner raise.

8) They move to Arizona (where only one man one woman marriage is legally recognized ).

9) After 9 years of marriage he/she wants a divorce but can’t get it because Arizona does not recognize the Hawaiian marriage in the first place.

I guess the only solution is for him/her to go back to Hawaii to get the divorce.


11 posted on 04/05/2013 12:11:31 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Oh, the diversity!

He / she will be Hillary's 2016 running mate. The historical, first whatever candidate.

12 posted on 04/05/2013 12:26:24 PM PDT by rfp1234 (Arguing with a marxist is like playing Chess with a Pigeon.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think it is time to address something that nobody in the media (or the idiotic sheep of the public) wants too-—

What is this invented term “transgender”? What is the definition? Not what it has become.

Humans are created with either two X chromosomes or an X Chromosome and a Y Chromosome. Period. Thats the way it works.

Transgender is a manmade excuse for people to self-identify with the opposite gender to what they are genetically. WE can debate till the cows come home - but how do you debate whether a person has a “Y Chromosome” or not? You don’t


13 posted on 04/05/2013 12:26:35 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: SeekAndFind
I don't really see a problem here and agree with the judge, at least in the result. Because the "he" was never a "he" -- DNA would show "he" was always a "she" -- therefore, there is no marriage to dissolve because "shes" can't marry "shes" (marriage is a religious ceremony and a "she" marrying a "she" would be invalid in the eyes of God). Now if they had some sort of civil ceremony, that might be different ... (See tagline)
14 posted on 04/05/2013 12:34:55 PM PDT by Fast Moving Angel (A moral wrong is not a civil right: No religious sanction of an irreligious act.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Um, if you gave birth to the kids, you aren't their daddy. You're their mommy.

Good grief.

15 posted on 04/05/2013 12:39:00 PM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Reminds me of the episode of South Park where Ms. Garrison discovers that she can’t get an abortion because even though she had a sex change operation, she can’t get pregnant. I think she then tries to grow a penis on a mouse but that was a long time ago and I stopped watching that show.


16 posted on 04/05/2013 12:45:37 PM PDT by Mercat (I'm loving this Pope)
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To: MEGoody

Bingo! She-who-wants-to-be-He is the mother since she/he was pregnant and gave birth—THREE TIMES. He/she could not have been taking her “I want to be a man” medication if he/she were pregnant...hence he was actually a she when he gave birth.

Sometimes I really DO think I am living in a Monty Python movie!


17 posted on 04/05/2013 12:50:51 PM PDT by t2buckeye
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To: Mercat

Yeah and the dad of Stan gets surgery to look like a dolphin and gets really mad when they keep saying “Just because you look like a dolphin doesn’t really make you a dolphin!”


18 posted on 04/05/2013 12:53:29 PM PDT by chae (I was anti-Obama before it was cool)
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To: TheBattman
how do you debate whether a person has a “Y Chromosome” or not? You don’t

Your point is crystal clear and speaks volumes.

As my Dad used to say about people who wanted to debate a moot point such as you have pointed out... "they're just bull$hittin' themselves."

19 posted on 04/05/2013 1:19:34 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: chae

America’s media is so dishonest.

i.e. calling a woman by he.


20 posted on 04/05/2013 1:20:33 PM PDT by bicyclerepair (Got a letter from Gov. Palin in reply to my Dad sending her my picture from a TEA party rally.)
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To: dfwgator
Soon God is going to step in and yell, “OK Everybody, Out of the Pool!”

Soon Satan is going to step in and yell, "Coffee Break's over, everybody back on your heads!"

21 posted on 04/05/2013 1:23:09 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

You are correct, it is neither, since she no longer lives in HI and is not and never was a man.


22 posted on 04/05/2013 1:30:40 PM PDT by darkangel82
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To: SeekAndFind

No. That doesn’t fit the gay agenda. They like to sh!t in a pool and ruin it for everyone if they are not allowed to forcefully ram their demands down everyone’s throat.

You know. Becaue they are a protected species and all that.


23 posted on 04/05/2013 2:01:25 PM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: SeekAndFind

there is no such thing as transgendered, but there is mutilated


24 posted on 04/05/2013 2:02:35 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: SeekAndFind

EWW, EWW, EWW.


25 posted on 04/05/2013 2:12:33 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: TheBattman

There are also XYY and XXY individuals, though they are rare.


26 posted on 04/05/2013 3:46:15 PM PDT by HartleyMBaldwin
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To: SeekAndFind

27 posted on 04/05/2013 3:48:40 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"Imagine what this is doing to my children," Beatie said as he held the hand of his girlfriend of one year. "In time, they are going to look back and see that a court said that's not your daddy. I'm sorry, that's who I am. I am my children's father."

And the children aren't going to look back and wonder about "daddy" being biologically a woman? Imagine that conversation: "Yes, children, daddy used to be like mommy but daddy had a little operation to be like a daddy but your daddy doesn't have those daddy parts because daddy decided to keep daddy's mommy parts."

28 posted on 04/05/2013 5:04:02 PM PDT by Victoria_R (Believers in VERY small government: Count Mountjoy/Benter in 2012!!!)
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To: HartleyMBaldwin

XYY - does not manifest itself outwardly... indeed most who have that genetic issue don’t even realize their karyotype.

These are fully male, and have absolutely no “symptoms” - and can almost always have normal fertility.

Those with the extra Y Chromosome often do grow a bit taller... I fail to see how that makes any difference to this discussion.

As far as XXY - or “Klinefelter syndrome” - Is also quite rare, and while it does have a few more physical hallmarks, it still has no relationship to the gender “confusion” the radical Left keeps trying foist on the rest of the world.

Neither of these genetic disorders leads to “hermaphrodites” as is claimed. The absolute “worst-case” scenario is that some are born with decreased sensitivity to natural hormones (and a male with XXY may produce low testosterone levels already). This can lead to “ambiguous” genetalia... but there are no documented cases that I have been able to find reference to, where a single individual has fully-functional gentalia of both genders. This is called “pseudohermaphrodite”.

With decreased sensitivity to hormones, the biological response would be asexual - there would be little to no sex drive.


29 posted on 04/05/2013 8:08:07 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: TheBattman

Actually, I knew all that, oversimplified as it might be. That is why I posted my comment in response to your statement that “Humans are created with either two X chromosomes or an X Chromosome and a Y Chromosome. Period. Thats [sic] the way it works.”


30 posted on 04/06/2013 6:31:31 AM PDT by HartleyMBaldwin
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t get it, why does ‘he’ want a divorce for an invalid marrage?

‘He’ certantly doesn’t need the State to stop enforcing that which the state is not enforcing...

Why doesn’t he just forget about it and move on...


31 posted on 04/06/2013 11:45:00 PM PDT by Monorprise (`)
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To: SeekAndFind

If the “man” gave birth then ‘he’ is not a man...


32 posted on 04/06/2013 11:47:13 PM PDT by Monorprise (`)
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To: VideoDoctor

It is possible to be female and have a Y Chromosome or be male and have 2 X Chromosome.

Your Gender is determined by how much estrogen or testosterone you have at a certant vital stage of your development in the wound. If your mother for example produces a huge amount of estrogen or testosterone at that time.

You will be born anatomically a woman or man regardless of your Chromosomes.

What makes a man a man is his male reproductive organs and a woman a woman her female organs.


33 posted on 04/06/2013 11:51:20 PM PDT by Monorprise (`)
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To: Monorprise
If the “man” gave birth then ‘he’ is not a man...

You mean Arnold is really a woman?

34 posted on 04/07/2013 6:43:26 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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