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Psychiatrist warned campus police about Aurora shooter a month before mass murder
Hot Air ^ | April 5, 2013 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 04/05/2013 1:05:05 PM PDT by Malone LaVeigh

In a revelation that may have Colorado voters rethinking their state’s push on gun control, court documents revealed that the mass shooting in Aurora that killed 12 and injured 70 more could have been prevented by law enforcement. The psychiatrist for suspect, James Holmes, had warned campus police that Holmes was dangerous and homicidal a month before the shooting took place. Lynne Fenton even told the police that Holmes had begun to stalk and threaten her, and yet no action was apparently taken:

(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aurora; banglist; corruption; democrats; donutwatch; guncontrol; jamesholmes; lynnefenton; secondamendment; shooting
Oooops! Someone has some 'splaining to do.
1 posted on 04/05/2013 1:05:05 PM PDT by Malone LaVeigh
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To: Malone LaVeigh

This will be buried.


2 posted on 04/05/2013 1:09:06 PM PDT by brownsfan (Behold, the power of government cheese.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh
Who is this mysterious “Someone”?

The Governor?
Senators?
Representatives?

Most of them are pretty well insulated because the next election is in 2014. That is plenty of time for them to cook up a reason for the low information voter (Now the majority in Calirado) to blame anyone and everyone except the ruling majority.

3 posted on 04/05/2013 1:11:39 PM PDT by Tupelo (Old, Bald, Ugly, Fat and Broke in Arizona)
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To: Malone LaVeigh
GOTTA HIDE THE TRUTH & RUSH THEIR LEGISLATION THROUGH! DO THE RIGHT THING COLORADO, REMOVE THE RATS!
4 posted on 04/05/2013 1:15:58 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature ($1.84 - The price of a gallon of gas on Jan. 20th, 2009.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh
The families, friends, acquaintances, doctors, counselors, law enforcement officials, courts, schools know who these nutbags are before they go on their shooting sprees. Which of them is going to come forward and admit it, lest they put themselves in criminal or civil jeopardy? If you could get the knotheads institutionalized more easily, many of these rampages would not occur. But go ask the ACLU or any other Loony Left organization what they think of that idea...
5 posted on 04/05/2013 1:16:38 PM PDT by twister881
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To: Malone LaVeigh
court documents revealed that the mass shooting in Aurora that killed 12 and injured 70 more could have been prevented by law enforcement

Nonsense. All they could have done was question him. If he acted weird enough possibly commit him for a limited time for observation.

Then he's back out and really ticked off.

How exactly is this an improvement?

All of these "prevent mass shootings by locking up the nuts" ideas would probably require warehousing thousands or tens of thousands of odd people who have committed no crimes in order to catch the one mass killer.

They're the pro-gun side equivalent of gun control. A theoretically simple solution to a complex problem that just will not work.

6 posted on 04/05/2013 1:18:35 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Malone LaVeigh

Guess it did not fit the AGENDA desired.


7 posted on 04/05/2013 1:21:07 PM PDT by Diogenesis (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Malone LaVeigh
All the police did was cut off his access card. University authorities lied in their initial statement and claimed Holmes' access was cut off because he was dis-enrolling. Not so - they cut him off because of this report. But they didn't do anything else.

Both Holmes and Ebel should not have been on the streets and the only thing that would have kept them from killing was getting them off the streets. And it was government screw-ups and failures to act that put them out there.

8 posted on 04/05/2013 1:22:02 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Malone LaVeigh

“Police have testified to having no contact with Holmes before the shooting. Why exactly was that? The complaint/warning from Fenton should have prompted police to make sure Holmes wasn’t a threat to Fenton, at the very least. Had they performed that standard follow-up — and remember, this was a mental health professional telling the police that her patient was both homicidal and threatening her specifically — the police might well have had Holmes in custody long before the shooting.”

Law enforcement is reactive. To get arrested before committing a crime is almost unheard of. There are special stalker statutes, but that’s the exception. Remember the movie The Minority Report? If I recall, that was about a police unit that arrested murderers before they committed murder. Do we want that? We do have something in Florida called The Baker Act. Any official can arrest you if they judge you are a threat to yourself or others. But then the state has to take care of you; which is expensive. So it’s not often used. You have to really be nutso to get Baker Acted. Incarceration usually lasts 2 weeks. Two weeks would not have deterred this assailant.

Even if the doctor had a signed “I’m-gonna-kill-you” note, chances are they would have done nothing.


9 posted on 04/05/2013 1:22:23 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Malone LaVeigh

10 posted on 04/05/2013 1:22:57 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Sherman Logan
All of these "prevent mass shootings by locking up the nuts" ideas would probably require warehousing thousands or tens of thousands of odd people who have committed no crimes in order to catch the one mass killer.

I don't know, maybe a bit of an overstatement? Modern medicine / psychiatry is pretty good at distinguishing between the odd and the dangerous. The problem is taking the dangerous off the streets before they act. Don't know that society would require the odd to be locked up, too -- we're all odd in our own way(s). Might not be many folks at liberty if we did that! 8~)

11 posted on 04/05/2013 1:25:44 PM PDT by twister881
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To: brownsfan

Not if we don’t let them bury it!


12 posted on 04/05/2013 1:27:02 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Sherman Logan

I maintain the only answer to all this is to ban guns from being owned by liberals.

Everyone wins. They don’t want them. We don’t have to have any conservatives murdered in cold blood by mass-murdering homicidal liberals.

Seems simple enough to me.


13 posted on 04/05/2013 1:28:53 PM PDT by rlmorel (1793 French Jacobins and 2012 American Liberals have a lot in common.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh
In the old Soviet Union, dissidents were considered “insane” and could be committed indefinitely for psychiatric treatment. The rationale was that the state had created a workers’ paradise and any person who was not happy in paradise had to be crazy. I also learned that a psychiatric test was required to obtain a drivers license.

Pardon my cynicism when I see articles such as the one posted. Doesn't it suggest that psychiatrists should have the final word on who is permitted to own a firearm? Doesn't it suggest a psychiatric examination as a precondition for gun ownership? Who is to design, administer and record such tests?

Of course, if one patron had been armed, it is possible that a few grains of well placed lead would have restored mental balance to the shooter.

14 posted on 04/05/2013 1:30:46 PM PDT by trubolotta
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To: rlmorel

Amen.


15 posted on 04/05/2013 1:39:29 PM PDT by matt04
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To: Malone LaVeigh
Charles Whitman told a University of Texas psychiatrist that he "...felt the urge to start shooting people with a deer rifle."

I don't pretend to know the answers to the dilemma this kind of thing puts doctors in, or how to reconcile it with RKBA (which I'm very firmly committed to) and other civil liberties that we all treasure. It's perplexing. I only posted that fact because it came to my mind when I read the article.

16 posted on 04/05/2013 1:42:36 PM PDT by VR-21 (I'm weary of being lorded over by criminals and gilded degenerates.)
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To: Sherman Logan

The police were alerted by a health care professional that the kid was dangerous. Yes, all they could have done was to question him, it reflects the tendency of cops not to intervene until a crime actually happens. That’s because their bosses put little stress on prevention.


17 posted on 04/05/2013 1:46:39 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: twister881

How many “odd” people do you have to sift through in order to find the “dangerous” ones? What level of reliability is there in psychiatric diagnosis? How many false negative and false positives are there?

Do we really want to give this much power to psychiatric professionals, many of whom believe conservatives, especially people who like guns, are by definition mentally ill, dangerously so?

What we have here is a case of severe hindsightitis. Like the morons that claimed 911 or Pearl Harbor could have been prevented. Which is of course true, had intelligence analysts lined up half a dozen of the many thousands of snippets of information coming through and drawn the appropriate conclusions.

But in real life, do you have any idea how many “odd” people the cops deal with? About the loud uproar that would follow from “human rights activists” if they started rounding up all who don’t “fit in?”


18 posted on 04/05/2013 1:47:45 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: VR-21

The lady in Colorado, however, also felt she was in danger and so in this case, there was no dilemma.


19 posted on 04/05/2013 1:48:26 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
it reflects the tendency of cops not to intervene until a crime actually happens.

What should they do? You would perhaps prefer the cops institute a "pre-crime program?"

20 posted on 04/05/2013 1:49:05 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

21 posted on 04/05/2013 1:50:46 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
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To: RobbyS

Good point.


22 posted on 04/05/2013 1:51:46 PM PDT by VR-21 (I'm weary of being lorded over by criminals and gilded degenerates.)
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To: Travis McGee; mickie
Photo above of the three American mass murderers....the eyes have it.

Leni

23 posted on 04/05/2013 1:52:41 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: colorado tanker
"Both Holmes and Ebel should not have been on the streets and the only thing that would have kept them from killing was getting them off the streets. And it was government screw-ups and failures to act that put them out there."

The survivors should sue them to the limits for letting this happen. Maybe a few of these lawsuits will change that behavior!!'

24 posted on 04/05/2013 1:59:04 PM PDT by LADY J (ues)
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To: Sherman Logan

It is a difficult problem. Heck, there ARE people who shouldn’t be walking the streets, and society once DID find a way to get them off the streets. I think everyone can agree that there are indeed people who shouldn’t be living at large in society.

The question is, where does one draw the line at “YOU can live in society” and “You CANNOT live in society”...

But, as another poster said, it is also true that giving the government powers of incarceration for mental status CAN (and did) end up with tyrannical states like the Soviet Union using it for their own ends.

We were taking people off the streets at one time in this country without being the Soviet Union, and while it is true that the conditions in many of those places were bad, it was also true that it likely wouldn’t be worse than what many of those people had on the street, except that someone else was paying for it.


25 posted on 04/05/2013 2:00:04 PM PDT by rlmorel (1793 French Jacobins and 2012 American Liberals have a lot in common.)
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To: VR-21

Whitman had a brain tumor in the region that effects strong emotion. Received poor medical care and his problem went undiagnosed - we all know what happened next. The sad fact is that he was as much a victim as the people he killed.


26 posted on 04/05/2013 2:01:38 PM PDT by stormer
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To: MinuteGal

Yeah. They all look like Pelosi and THIS guy...

27 posted on 04/05/2013 2:02:14 PM PDT by rlmorel (1793 French Jacobins and 2012 American Liberals have a lot in common.)
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To: LADY J
The Holmes victims are suing the theater, although that seems a long shot. I don't think there is any argument that CU owed them a duty. What I don't get is why CU didn't try to get a restraining order or mental health hold and evaluation. It was one of their own being threatened ferchrisake.

It sounds like the pizza driver's (Leon) family is hopping mad and I'm sure they are looking into a lawsuit. It's really sad that the Department of Corrections' screw-ups got their own leader killed in addition to Leon, who appears to have been murdered just to get his Domino's shirt and pizza box.

And please, I know, the people responsible for these murders are the murderers. I'm talking about failures to take preventive measures, not who is criminally responsible.

28 posted on 04/05/2013 2:10:04 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Sherman Logan
You make several good points, and I'm on more on the Libertarian view, as well. I do like the idea of a well-armed citizenry and the ability to carry virtually anywhere as a deterrent, preventive, or mitigation for the nuts.
29 posted on 04/05/2013 2:11:33 PM PDT by twister881
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To: Sherman Logan

Death threats are enough to do an investigation. They wouldn’t have had to look far to see what he was buying or what he was hiding in his apartment.


30 posted on 04/05/2013 2:16:09 PM PDT by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh

Why would campus police even have any jurisdiction here? It seems like the equivalent of reporting a rape at work to the security at the front desk.. Sure, it might be a nice thing to do, but it wouldn’t replace going to the real authorities.

Are colleges independent nations, like Indian tribes—or what?


31 posted on 04/05/2013 2:22:32 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

Everybody knows that college cops are more like mall security than anything else.

Their prime incentive, with no doubt honorable exceptions, is to minimize the reported or investigated “crime rate” on campus.

A campus cop who starts making a lot of waves is likely to scare off students and parents and therefore have a short career.


32 posted on 04/05/2013 2:35:21 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: rlmorel
Heck, there ARE people who shouldn’t be walking the streets, and society once DID find a way to get them off the streets. I think everyone can agree that there are indeed people who shouldn’t be living at large in society.

Quite right.

But in the final analysis some human must be given the power to make that decision, and in our society, for better or worse, we have this whole bit about due process.

Some doctor's hunch or opinion is at best problematic as a way of deciding who gets locked up for years.

33 posted on 04/05/2013 2:37:59 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Travis McGee

Travis, you forgot to include a mug shot of a certain mulatto Marxist
Homo I know!


34 posted on 04/05/2013 2:45:11 PM PDT by Doc Savage ("I've shot people I like a lot more,...for a lot less!" Raylan Givins)
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To: Doc Savage
He is still on the "pending" list.

This 5 minute video mentions how and why.


35 posted on 04/05/2013 3:13:46 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Sherman Logan

Bullseye.


36 posted on 04/05/2013 3:14:22 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

The numbers for Stalin are probably underestimating significantly.


37 posted on 04/05/2013 3:17:04 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: Sherman Logan

Too often they don’t intervene because they haven’t been trained how to intervene, or given the authority or the discretion. Then there is the question of WHO. Who made the decision not to act. The doctor, the cop, or someone higher?


38 posted on 04/05/2013 3:39:46 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Sherman Logan

I don’t think we disagree much.

I always like to take a situation like this and drive a stake in both ends, then get people to speculate on where the line in the middle goes.

We have all seen people that there is 100% no doubt they should be institutionalized.

And then we can all look at people and say 100% they shouldn’t.

All the contention comes around with that gray area, and where you divide the issue into one or the other.


39 posted on 04/05/2013 4:51:20 PM PDT by rlmorel (1793 French Jacobins and 2012 American Liberals have a lot in common.)
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