Skip to comments.The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns
Posted on 04/10/2013 11:40:05 AM PDT by rmlew
I just talked to someone familiar with the Toomey-Manchin proposal who raises a serious concern based on his understanding of the legislation.
Everyone on all sides agrees that we need better help for those with mental health problems who need treatment.
Unfortunately, the person I talked with is concerned that the Toomey-Manchin proposal could discourage people from getting help.
The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.
There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.
Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.
Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.
Mental health is a serious issue and the Toomey-Manchin legislation could have negative consequences. Worse, it would still not stop a Columbine, a Newtown, or the daily massacres in Chicago.
There were so many things wrong with Schumers S374 that I really doubt Toomey could have fixed them all.
Just more crap frm Washington’s power-mad *ssholes - both Democan and Republicrat.
This already covered in the firearms act of1934.
Unnecessary and onerous
I doubt any senator read this.
Bloomberg’s cronies probably wrote this.
The same people who wrote obamacare as a socialist takeover.
Doctor on routine visit asks if I have guns in my house.
I tell him it's none of his business.
The doc adds me to the database, figuring I'm some kind of crazed gun nut.
Thanks, Toomey. You just ensured I will be working for whoever runs against you in the 2016 primary.
Tyrant Kim Un Hussein must be very pleased that his efforts to FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA are progressing so easily.
It says the “state” will come and collect the guns. Look for local cops, sheriffs and state police to give the feds extra firepower. They would all love to get on TV in a stand off with a “survivalist extremist”.
"Pennsylvania has a long, bipartisan tradition of supporting gun rights. I am a proud part of that tradition. I am a gun owner. I revere the rights enshrined in our Second Amendment. My record shows this. Criminal background checks are just common sense. If you pass a criminal background check, you can buy a gun. Its the people who fail a criminal or mental health background check that we dont want having guns. That can be done without infringing on law-abiding peoples gun rights. And we ought to do it."
What do you want to bet that Obamacare will have a quota that physisicans will have to meet.
Didn't think so.
Sometimes I wonder if these nimrods know what a black market is.
What’s to stop pediatricians from adding every parent of their patients to the list. Because children shouldn’t live in a home with guns?
The correct answer is, "I don't have a gun. Nobody saw my gun. You can't prove anything."
They've already been doing that. Note that whenever agents from given agencies visit Joe Citizen, they always bring along their local or state LEO "partners" to provide muscle.
REALLY crazy people who don’t seek help will still be able to get them. And you will not have solved the problem but made it worse by ensuring that they will shun treatment.
The words to these laws will mean different things to different people.
So if you get pulled over for running a stop sign you might as well tell the cop to follow you home so you can give him your guns.
Or if you’ve ever been to the Betty Ford Clinic for treatment of alcoholism, expect a knock on the door.
And if you tell them you sold your weapons they’ll ask you why you bought ammo last week.
I’m not sure, isn’t it racist?
I’m beginning to realize that this is what they really want. They don’t need anything else.
And let me guess: The doctor or other health care professional who reported you and made a mistake will be protected from litigation.
Well considering I don't intend to play by their "universal" system (as a seller or buyer) no matter what laws are passed and I long ago "opted out" of the Brady law, by only buying from individuals. I'm not particularly worried about anybody blocking my right to guns. Oh true, they might block my right to go down to the local gun store and buy one off the self, but I haven't played that game since before the brady bill went into effect anyway.
In reality, I will bet that the Doctor probably wouldn’t know that he’s adding anyone to a “list.”
The Doctor would simply put in a code (required by ObamaCare) that means something simple like, “patient has reported increased stress”.
What the Government will do - without the Docs knowledge - is start searching for those particular codes and then flag people.
HIPPA be damned.
Without a strong 2nd there just are no other Rights.
Primary them. Even if they win a primary, they are forced to spend money and are weakened. We need payback.
How many people have had legitimate issues with Experian and other credit agencies? And there you have data that shows where the mistaken reporting came from. And recourse to fix it.
It’s like the no fly database. No way of knowing how you ended up there. No way to fix it if you’re there by mistake.
I can’t find it at http://thomas.loc.gov
A secret bill?
Oh yeah, and you can bet all of this is already in place in Obamacare.
Further comments self censored...........(((ping))).
This will keep Ashley Judd from having a gun????
Is there anyone who is fifty or older who hasn’t had trouble sleeping or who hasn’t had a period of anxiety or depression?? Better not say anything about it to your doctor.
So they are going to make doctors the “police.”
And HIPA privacy be damned.
“The doctor or other health care professional who reported you and made a mistake will be protected from litigation.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if they were allowed to remain anonymous.
Face it. It is over That jackass McCain and his buds sold out.
No use voting anymore. People always said this is where they would draw the line. Yeah right. Just kicking the can down the road. The fight is over.
If I were a doctor, I would be concerned. If a person is determined, and unstable (why else would they be seeing the doctor) they’d be able to find a gun somewhere and might not be happy with the doctor.
If I were a doctor, I would refuse to comply for my own safety.
Yup, once again it's that time of day to beg your own government for freedoms which were not even in question not long ago.
Beg them to stop punishing you, call them, but be polite and ask them real nice to stop dancing with the devil. Remember, be polite, say please, say thank you, and provide them all your information!
oops we = The...sorry..Mistakes happens (even from us CONSERVATIVES)
I quadrupled my money on gunbroker.com
Toomey and Manchin's legislation clarifies that doctors can enter mental health records into the national background check system without it being a violation of privacy laws.That's nice. No due process!
A list of conservative, Second-Amendment friendly physicians in every state needs to be compiled, that is, if doing so hasn’t been made illegal.
Whatever happened to all that “between you and your doctor” bull**** the commie lib DemocRATS are always spewing at us?
It also sets up the dynamic that people will abstain from unnecessary or even routine doctor visits out of fear that the question would be asked.
It also brings up a very frightening question of being drugged by a doctor for a “procedure” that winds up being a truth serum or psychosis-inducing medication.
If anything else, it’ll lower the number of people seeking “care” under the PPACA, thus handing the Dems, and Obama, a budget “win.”
I’m OK with stopping a mentally ill person from buying a gun, but NOT ON A DOCTOR’S SAY-SO. That right should have to be removed by a Judge in a Court of Law, with testimony and the ability for rebuttal.
When the government asks me to incriminate myself I always take the “immaculate conception” defense.
My father didn't have sex with my mother.
As a baby I never defecated in my diapers.
As a child I never picked my nose and ate it.
I have never even SEEN a policeman.
I don't even know what illegal drugs are.
I have never even bent, let alone broken, the law.
I do not now own and have never owned a firearm. The only time I ever learned to shoot or held a firearm was when I was in the U.S. military, where I mysteriously shot amazingly well for a novice.
I am not now on, never have been on, or ever will be on any anti depressants, anti psychotics, or any pharmaceutical medication other than antibiotics.
Thank you! for the actual language link!
How did it feel to join the Marxists, if only for one mistaken moment? Did you take a shower? LOL Bob
Living in Obamaville, a prescription for stress meds should be a *requirement* before purchasing a gun. It’s the folks who don’t realize that the nation is crashing who are too stupid to own a gun. Bob
“Its the people who fail a criminal or mental health background check that we dont want having guns.”
He forgot the last part...”And we can pass or fail anyone we want depending on what we ‘check’ for.”
Just say “no” to your doctor. And lie to him if you smoke. I’ve been lying to my doctors for years.