Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Study: CA High-Speed Rail Will Lose $124-$373 Million A Year
Breitbart - Reason Foundation ^ | 13 Apr 2013 | Wynton Hall

Posted on 04/13/2013 11:59:34 AM PDT by george76

the California High-Speed Rail System will saddle taxpayers with losses between $124 million to $373 million a year.

Exaggerated ridership estimates and slower-than-promised trip speeds make the California bullet train project a big financial loser for taxpayers...

...

The [California High-Speed Rail Authority’s] financing assertions are virtual fantasy

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: agenda21; california; china; climatechange; globalwarming; governormoonbeam; highspeed; highspeedrail; imisswilliegreen; jerrybrown; rail; taxpayers; un; un21; unagenda21

1 posted on 04/13/2013 11:59:34 AM PDT by george76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: george76

2 posted on 04/13/2013 12:03:32 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The ballot box is a sham. Nothing will change until after the war.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Prime example would be the Rail Runner between Albuquerque and Santa Fe New Mexico. Loser!


3 posted on 04/13/2013 12:05:10 PM PDT by rktman (BACKGROUND CHECKS? YOU FIRST MR. PRESIDENT!(not that we'd get the truth!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

C’mon. This is Kalifornia we are talking about here. Since when do they worry about money problem?

“At least we have a super cool High Speed Rail system, none of you mid-west redneckers have one. Na na na na na na”


4 posted on 04/13/2013 12:06:03 PM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

I would double those estimates to err on the safe side.


5 posted on 04/13/2013 12:08:12 PM PDT by razorback-bert (I'm in shape. Round is a shape isn't it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

“A big financial loser for taxpayers”..... But not for California Democrats!

Get all on board the love train, love train, love train!
The next stop that we’ll make will be the bank.
Tell all the folks we’re buying yachts, too!


6 posted on 04/13/2013 12:09:10 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

If 1 cent was spent on this study it was a waste of money.

Here’s all that ever needs to be known about constructing a rail line; If it’s worth it, private enterprise will build it and run it at a profit. If government builds it, it will never make a profit and therefore is not worth the effort!


7 posted on 04/13/2013 12:09:45 PM PDT by DakotaGator (Weep for the lost Republic! And keep your powder dry!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Jerry Brown Math: We’re losing $500 per passenger mile traveled, but we’ll make up for it in volume!


8 posted on 04/13/2013 12:09:51 PM PDT by ssaftler (It's Obama's fault)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: razorback-bert

Frankly, I would double your double to be doubly safe. No kidding.


9 posted on 04/13/2013 12:10:43 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ssaftler

Print more money...we have plenty of paper and ink left. Happy days are here again! What does it matter?


10 posted on 04/13/2013 12:11:22 PM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: DakotaGator

It will be twice that estimate, AT LEAST


11 posted on 04/13/2013 12:11:42 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: DakotaGator

This was spelled out very plainly in Burton Folsom’s excellent book “The Myth of the Robber Barons.” Every government subsidized rail line and steamship line in the 1800s was a huge money loser. Those built with private capital made tons of money.


12 posted on 04/13/2013 12:11:57 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: george76

An “All Saints” line would make more sense.

San Diego to San Fransisco with stops in San Clemente, San Juan Capistrano, Santa Ana, Santa Monica, Santa Barbara, Santa Maria, San Luis Obispo, San Ardo, San Miguel, Santa Cruz, and San Jose, with the possibility of extending it to San Rafael and Santa Rosa...


13 posted on 04/13/2013 12:15:20 PM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of oppression and Democrats use them. Gun confiscation enables tyranny.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Paid parking at light rail stations was tried, they lost $100,000 during the trial period. So they will probably expand it. Even though it loses money, its more about control.

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2013/apr/11/carrollton-city-council-delays-decision-dart-paid-/


14 posted on 04/13/2013 12:16:24 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

This number can’t include capital cost amortization. At $100 billion (likely way more) and bonds have to pay 4%.

$4 billion per year for these costs alone. That’s a big nut.

And the product is inferior to a Southwest Airline flight that does the same thing.


15 posted on 04/13/2013 12:20:02 PM PDT by cicero2k
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

I am “shocked” that you would post this photo.;)


16 posted on 04/13/2013 12:25:46 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: george76

Good union jobs at good union wages. That’s all that matters.


17 posted on 04/13/2013 12:26:06 PM PDT by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DakotaGator
Actually, there are a couple of more things ~ one of them is that Freight does not have the same time and comfort constraints required for humans and therefore can spend more time sitting on a siding and ride on rougher rails.

Since freight traffic is going to pay for rail upkeep and force scheduling, passenger rail systems can never share the same right of way as freight! And, without rails, passenger rail systems will need ENORMOUS SUBSIDIES forever ~ plus, competing forms of transportation (personal automobiles, and airplanes) are more comfortable than the best rail passenger system under any conditions.

I'm betting on AUTOMATED AUTOMOBILES and an entirely new concept of transportation. These devices will turn into a utility.

18 posted on 04/13/2013 12:26:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

How do you explain the current passenger routes sharing rights of way with freight now?


19 posted on 04/13/2013 12:32:45 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: SoCal Pubbie

i just did. Passenger service sharing tracks with freight service is stupid!


20 posted on 04/13/2013 12:36:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

“Boxcar” Willie Green is that you?


21 posted on 04/13/2013 12:36:26 PM PDT by mountn man (ATTITUDE- The Pleasure You Get From Life, Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

So when you wrote “can never” you meant “should never.”


22 posted on 04/13/2013 12:42:54 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: SoCal Pubbie

Given the technical understanding of the politicians who scarf up the subsidies, those systems ‘can never’ ~ outside of isolated ‘subway’ systems, rail is dead when it comes to passenger traffic. It’s a waste of money to try to bring it back. Freight, on the other hand, IS rail these days in this country.


23 posted on 04/13/2013 12:46:35 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: george76

Collectivists don’t measure success by a cost/benefit formula. Success is simply doing the project, never mind the cost or the wisdom of it.


24 posted on 04/13/2013 12:48:59 PM PDT by lurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

” It will be twice that estimate, AT LEAST”

My guess? 4 times.


25 posted on 04/13/2013 1:03:28 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: george76

But the well connected will make multi-millions and politicians will get huge campaign contributions.

That’s what really counts - isn’t it?

/s


26 posted on 04/13/2013 1:10:24 PM PDT by Iron Munro (Welcome to Obama-Land - EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Freepers, your Contributions make every difference!
Please keep ‘em coming! Thank you all very much!

27 posted on 04/13/2013 1:26:10 PM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: george76
The Reason Foundation's estimate is still wayyyy too high, but at least they are on (get ready, drum roll...)

...the right track.

.

28 posted on 04/13/2013 1:41:28 PM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76
The California High-Speed Rail Authority has already significantly lowered its 2035 ridership projections from 65.5 million to 117 million down to just 19.6 million to 31.8 million.

Yet the Reason Foundation says even those lowered estimates are unrealistic; 2035 ridership is likely to be 65% to 77% lower.

Not This (Stuff) Again. Ok Jerry, let's go over this just one more time, then you really have to go to bed.

The latest estimates are for $100B in capital costs to build the thing. That's the stations and rails and trains. $100B at let's say 5% interest (because CA is broke and their bonds should pay what these days is considered "top dollar") is $5B per year. Divide that by the very most optimistic estimate of 30M passengers per year to get $166 per passenger.

The state would do better to pay for a no-advance-purchase Southwest ticket and a SuperShuttle for door-to-door service at each end.

Oh and of course that doesn't count operating expenses of salaries, fuel to run the thing (the most-expensive "green" energy they can find of course), advertising, etc. Add that in and now your Southwest passenger gets a day at Disneyland or a night at a hotel courtesy of the state as well.

29 posted on 04/13/2013 1:46:10 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

Do these loses include amortizing the (enormous) capital cost; or are they just losses on annual operating costs?


30 posted on 04/13/2013 1:49:06 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks george76.


31 posted on 04/13/2013 2:10:25 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: george76
California high-speed rail is part of UN Agenda 21.

High-Speed Rail in California Brings Agenda 21 Megacities Closer

32 posted on 04/13/2013 2:16:13 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth." --Alan Greenspan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: george76

It costs a lot of money to save the planet...


33 posted on 04/13/2013 2:24:19 PM PDT by Gritty (The Constitution's purpose is to insulate personal freedom from a lust for power-Judge A. Napolitano)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

My rule of thumb was that freight made the expenses, mail made the profit, and passengers made the cake.

Of course, government cannot understand any of that.


34 posted on 04/13/2013 5:20:50 PM PDT by DakotaGator (Weep for the lost Republic! And keep your powder dry!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: george76
...and because it will lose $124 to $373 million a year is precisely why we must spend billions to build a light rail train to nowhere. The idiots in CA are truly beyond comprehension. Good old Gov. Moonbeam.
35 posted on 04/13/2013 5:28:32 PM PDT by MasterGunner01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

“Even though it loses money, its more about control.”

And as P.J. O’Rourke often says, “Government programs are not failures, they’re underfunded”


36 posted on 04/14/2013 3:34:54 AM PDT by Artie (We are surrounded by MORONS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: MasterGunner01

Now there is daylight on the reasons why the water was taken from the richest part of the Central Valley of Calif,.

The high speed rail will go rith thru there. Cost of land acquisition went down drastically.


37 posted on 04/14/2013 8:13:33 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Iron Munro; lurk; george76

Today’s CA public works = Democrat money-laundering operations through unions.


38 posted on 04/14/2013 2:29:24 PM PDT by 4Liberty (Some on our "Roads & Bridges" head to the beach. Others head to their offices, farms, libraries....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson