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Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Investor's Business Daily ^ | April 16, 2013 | IBD EDITORIALS

Posted on 04/16/2013 6:01:00 PM PDT by raptor22

Overreach: The gun control bill lets doctors put your name in the national criminal background check system without telling you. Can the government say you're crazy and take your guns? It's already happening.

The road to deeper gun control seems like another road paved with good intentions. Since many recent mass shootings have involved shooters with varying degrees of mental impairment, the desire to keep guns out of the genuinely mentally ill seems to be a worthy goal.

Yet it is being exploited with definitions so vague and undefined, and with controls so lax, as to become not a means of ensuring public safety but to fulfill an ideological agenda that sacrifices a fundamental liberty in the name of securing a marginal degree of safety.

The Toomey-Manchin proposal contains a provision that lets a doctor add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

This would seem to violate doctor-patient confidentiality, due process and the presumption of innocence in one fell swoop.

As the Heritage Foundation reports, this "gun control legislation eliminates any (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) privacy protection for mental health records in connection with the NICS system, leaving only what privacy protection the attorney general cares to provide."

In other words, protection of your medical privacy and gun rights enshrined into law would be removed and put into the hands of Attorney General Eric Holder.

We have written how under New York's SAFE Act, mental health records are being cross-checked with the names of gun permit holders.

New York state resident David Lewis, a 34-year-old college librarian, recently had his pistol permit taken away on the grounds that a check of health records showed he once took anxiety medication.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government; US: Pennsylvania; US: West Virginia
KEYWORDS: 2a; 2ndamendment; banglist; firearms; guncontrol; guns; ibd; ibdguns; rkba; rtkba; secondamendment
Bend over and cough if you believe in the Second Amendment
1 posted on 04/16/2013 6:01:00 PM PDT by raptor22
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To: raptor22

Note the provisions in 0bozoCare that have doctors asking your kids if there are guns in your house.

I have zero respect or trust/faith in the modern Government-Medical Industrial complex. Oh, Add Academia to that.

The smart ones don’t go to College, and the healthy AND smart ones don’t go to the Doctor.

If I am going to have my 2A rights infringed because I once cried at a funeral... to Hell with it. I will buy my guns on the street like a common criminal.

How many people in this country are presently wondering what their background check currently contains... or will contain? I betcha anything you are somehow legally unable to find out.


2 posted on 04/16/2013 6:15:43 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: raptor22
Don't worry, the liberals intend to honor our 2nd Amd rights. Like this.


3 posted on 04/16/2013 6:16:19 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

IBD EDITORIALS


4 posted on 04/16/2013 6:26:17 PM PDT by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

Your Government: Now Paying Shrinks $3,000 For Every Veterans Gun They Confiscate

aherf=”http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/04/12024-gov-shrinks-getting-paid-3k-take-vets-guns/";</a>


5 posted on 04/16/2013 6:30:16 PM PDT by True Grit
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To: raptor22

You may have RKBA denied if your NEIGHBOR has issues, think about it. Or merely be required t have a certain type of safe and alarm system.

ATF is seeking bids on a giant database that will have not only stuff about you, but it will show your relationships with other people. So if somewhere in this web there is a person who is so disturbed he really should not be armed, we must be sure that he can’t get his hands on YOUR guns, isn’t that commonsense and reasonable?


6 posted on 04/16/2013 6:45:15 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: DBrow

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=974186e6ff5bfc7bfed500f5d51af352&_cview=0


7 posted on 04/16/2013 6:50:11 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: raptor22

Are there words vile enough to describe these sewer slime?


8 posted on 04/16/2013 6:51:27 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: raptor22

Obamacare is gonna be wonderful.

I will refuse to participate. Financially or otherwise.


9 posted on 04/16/2013 6:53:58 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: Grampa Dave; granite; GreenFreeper; grjr21; I got the rope; IchBinEinBerliner; jaredt112; JayB; ...

IBD EDITORIALS PING


10 posted on 04/16/2013 6:56:10 PM PDT by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

If one of your ex-in-laws is a doctor, you will probably be in deep 2nd amendment dodo!!!!


11 posted on 04/16/2013 7:15:55 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (The Team: Progressives, Margret Sanger, Josef Mengele and the Butcher of Philadelphia)
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To: raptor22

These problems are coming about since politicians with the (R) attached to their names, are caving in to where they are not withstanding the social pressures coming at them from the media along with lobbyist groups in Washington, D.C. Toomey is nothing more than a turncoat, along with the others. Toomey gave the left the means to begin a national registry, a doctor abusing the doctor patient privacy to where the government officials can deny who they see fit to in not having the right to own a firearm. Even a criminal once they pay their debt to society, can come back and apply for their rights to be restored. Now, we are finding more ways for gun confiscation and control. Any of these bills are wrong to change our rights. They can enforce the current laws. We have background checks. The background checks at gun shows could be re enforced but not the way this Toomey-Manchin bill is set. They have lied to us.


12 posted on 04/16/2013 7:20:07 PM PDT by Christie at the beach
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To: RetiredTexasVet

And just for chuckles, the bill doesn’t even state the type of doctor that can zap you .... Obgyn, Podiatrist, Dermatologist, Dentist, etc.


13 posted on 04/16/2013 7:20:15 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (The Team: Progressives, Margret Sanger, Josef Mengele and the Butcher of Philadelphia)
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To: Larousse2

Ya told me so!


14 posted on 04/16/2013 7:21:26 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Rodamala
How many people in this country are presently wondering what their background check currently contains... or will contain? I betcha anything you are somehow legally unable to find out.

Good question. The ATF/DOJ have been data mining at local law enforcement for several years now; looking for the gray areas in old records, etc. Many people are finding they are suddenly identified as a Prohibited Person and denied to purchase even though they have never had a problem owning and purchasing firearms from FFLs for decades.

DOJ asserts you are a Prohibited Person and your rights are denied without due process. Even though they have access to the same old court records and medical records, etc., as you, the burden of proof is on you to clear your name.

Meanwhile, during this time you technically a criminal unless you have your firearms secured where you can not have access or control. You may choose to keep them with you, but you will be in constant fear because you do not know if you will be one to get a late night visit from the storm troopers. They have your name. They know you are now labeled a Prohibited Person. And they know where you live. You never know if you might be the one to get a visit.

It can easily take a a year or more and serious money as it is best to hire an attorney. It usually takes at least 4 to 5 months just to find out why you were denied.

Its not just old court records. They are also data mining old medical records for such things as visiting an MD or admitting yourself to a hospital for depression during a difficult time, such as an old divorce, loss of a loved one, PSTD, etc.

Some have had to sue in Federal court to prove their rights are being violated. That's when the big dollars kick in.

Google it. This has been going on for the last 4 or 5 years. Just wait till the get the national registration/er background check is installed. The Prohibited Person list is going to get real big.

15 posted on 04/16/2013 7:22:08 PM PDT by suijuris
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To: unixfox
I will refuse to participate. Financially or otherwise.

I have/will continue to refuse on religious grounds alone, but this is icing on that cake.

16 posted on 04/16/2013 7:24:51 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: RetiredTexasVet

What’s to stop a pediatrician from adding the parents of ALL their patients. Because children shouldn’t be in homes with guns.


17 posted on 04/16/2013 7:27:29 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: suijuris
The ATF/DOJ have been data mining at local law enforcement for several years now; looking for the gray areas in old records, etc.

Anyone who has had a DUI, who was recommended for 'treatment' (almost a given in some jurisdictions) may be a target.

Anyone who ever got busted for dope back in college, (even if that was their 'come to Jesus moment' and they never smoked it again)...

Hard to say with so many laws and such moving thresholds for offending anyone, just what will be made into a disqualifier.

There are days when I think a really good EMP would be a blessing. Back when, people could grow up, move, start over, and now every infraction follows them wherever they go (short of joining and serving a hitch in the French Foreign Legion).

18 posted on 04/16/2013 7:31:11 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Still Thinking; StopGlobalWhining; Straight Vermonter; Tampa Caver; TChris; ...

IBD EDITORIAL PING


19 posted on 04/16/2013 7:46:08 PM PDT by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

It doesn’t limit violations of constitutional rights to veterans and other real men like Schumer’s bill did. Have fun. Enjoy the slide.


20 posted on 04/16/2013 7:50:54 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: raptor22

Schumer goes nuts over alternative gun measure
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3008380/posts

Gun-Rights Group Endorses Manchin-Toomey Compromise
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3007821/posts?page=66#66


21 posted on 04/16/2013 7:54:16 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: familyop

“It doesn’t limit violations of constitutional rights to veterans and other real men like Schumer’s bill did. Have fun. Enjoy the slide.”

So you are not denying that the Toomey-Manchin bill will allow Docs to place people on the no-gun list without telling them, or as the example shows, forbidding someone to own a gun because their spouse was treated as n outpatient years earlier?


22 posted on 04/16/2013 9:25:22 PM PDT by Yehuda
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To: Smokin' Joe
I have/will continue to refuse on religious grounds alone, but this is icing on that cake.

I believe I declared my Amishness a long while ago on FR. You know... one of those rogue chainsmoking, liquor-drinking, porn-surfing, F-bomb-dropping... Amish.

23 posted on 04/16/2013 10:09:13 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: True Grit

404 Error
Sorry that page doesn’t exsist. Try again...


24 posted on 04/16/2013 10:24:41 PM PDT by shove_it (long ago Orwell, Huxley and Rand warned us about 0bama's USA)
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To: raptor22

they don’t seem to appreciate that the rule of law means nothing to the dems. They have successfully numbed the public into accepting selective enforcement.


25 posted on 04/16/2013 10:54:25 PM PDT by dila813
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To: shove_it

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/04/12024-gov-shrinks-getting-paid-3k-take-vets-guns/


26 posted on 04/16/2013 11:46:43 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (Psalm 83)
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To: Brad's Gramma

Of course this type of action, like the New York legislation letting police have access to medical records on a systematic basis, and other incidents where peoples’ health records are used to seize their guns without any specific incident will actively discourage people from receiving any help. That discouragement will actually increase the general risk because people won’t be treated who otherwise need it. Tin foil hat observations - It’s not about health care, its about power and control and more risk equals more incidents equals more motivation for all out firearms prohibitions.


27 posted on 04/17/2013 4:02:10 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: raptor22

28 posted on 04/17/2013 4:48:41 AM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: Brad's Gramma

Thanks


29 posted on 04/17/2013 6:45:25 AM PDT by shove_it (long ago Orwell, Huxley and Rand warned us about 0bama's USA)
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To: raptor22

They want the doctors to take the fall, while they are using another usual tactic of sneaking what they want through.


30 posted on 04/17/2013 9:25:20 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Yehuda
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Excerpt:
The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has withdrawn its support for the Manchin-Toomey alternative background check measure because a key amendment for restoration of firearms rights is not being considered.

“Our support for this measure was contingent on several key provisions, the cornerstone of which was a rights restoration provision that is not on the schedule for consideration,” said a frustrated CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb.


31 posted on 04/17/2013 9:44:57 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Yehuda

Thanks for prompting me to take a look at the current status of the bill. It should now be defeated. And may the next bill also be loaded with “ornaments” for failure. ;-)

The Second Amendment Foundation
http://www.saf.org/

Equal Gun Rights
“Self Defense is a Human Right.”
http://equalgunrights.com/


32 posted on 04/17/2013 10:01:03 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: familyop

Thx.


33 posted on 04/17/2013 10:01:49 AM PDT by Yehuda
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To: Yehuda

It appears that the bill is gone. Good work, Alan and friends at the CCRKBA.

Breaking: Ayotte a no on Manchin-Toomey; (shortened title)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3008889/posts


34 posted on 04/17/2013 10:31:45 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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