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Virginia Plane Crash: 'Air Force General' Dies
Sky News ^ | April 20, 2013

Posted on 04/20/2013 10:19:11 AM PDT by Fennie

A pilot who died when his light aircraft crashed just a few metres away from a house was reportedly a US Air Force general.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.sky.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: afgeneral; airforce; aviation; military; nuclear; obama; planecrash; usaf
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1 posted on 04/20/2013 10:19:11 AM PDT by Fennie
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To: Fennie

Hmmm.


2 posted on 04/20/2013 10:21:55 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Fennie

I’m guessing he wasn’t gay....


3 posted on 04/20/2013 10:22:51 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Jonty30

With Stalin, it was a one-way ticket to the Lubyanka....guess we’re a little more creative.


4 posted on 04/20/2013 10:22:57 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Fennie
Air Force general killed in JCC crash

AMES CITY COUNTY, Va. (WAVY) - A single-engine Cessna plane crashed in the Williamsburg Landing subdivision in James City County, killing two people Friday afternoon.

Assistant Fire Chief Bob Ryalls said the plane went down on Boatright Court near the Williamsburg/Jamestown Airport shortly before 5 p.m. There was no fire when it crashed.

State Police have confirmed the pilot, 54-year-old Joseph D. Brown, IV and a female passenger were killed, as was a family pet.

end snip
**************


5 posted on 04/20/2013 10:24:05 AM PDT by deport
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To: Fennie
Bio

Maj. Gen. Joseph D. Brown IV


6 posted on 04/20/2013 10:24:36 AM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: Fennie

Well, one thing seems for sure. He was out of fuel.


7 posted on 04/20/2013 10:25:39 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: Fennie
Went straight in.

Stall/spin during approach to landing it appears.

8 posted on 04/20/2013 10:27:17 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: Fennie

He was a classmate (Brother Rat) of mine a VMI.


9 posted on 04/20/2013 10:29:02 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Democrats: Robbing Peter to buy Paul's vote.)
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To: Fennie

Condolences to Genl. Brown’s family.

(BTW, Are we once again getting news from the Brits?)


10 posted on 04/20/2013 10:30:07 AM PDT by EDINVA
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To: Nachum

FReepmail


11 posted on 04/20/2013 10:30:52 AM PDT by Old Sarge (My "KMA List" is growing daily...)
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To: EDINVA
(BTW, Are we once again getting news from the Brits?)

God save the Queen!

12 posted on 04/20/2013 10:33:45 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Fennie
Why did they put "Air Force General" in quotes?

Was he an Air Force General or did he just pretend to be one?

13 posted on 04/20/2013 10:35:02 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: darkwing104

former BUFF and B1 Commander...RIP General and Mrs. Brown....from a former ‘blue suiter”


14 posted on 04/20/2013 10:35:43 AM PDT by sternup
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To: deport

http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=9370


15 posted on 04/20/2013 10:36:51 AM PDT by M1911A1
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To: Fennie

Chicagocide


16 posted on 04/20/2013 10:37:20 AM PDT by South Dakota (shut up and build a bakken pipe line)
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To: UCANSEE2

My guess also.

Probably out of fuel and the old story of trying to stretch his glide.

But you would expect anyone with his hours and intensive training to have kept a cool head.

On the other hand, I suspect that the military does not spend any time teaching fighter jocks the basics of dead stick landing.

More like blow and go.


17 posted on 04/20/2013 10:39:40 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: dead

Probably his title is in quotes because when the story was written there’d been no confirmation of his ID. The military does try to notify family before publicizing the death, although it seems Mrs. Brown was the other passenger. There may also be older children the USAF would have preferred to notify.


18 posted on 04/20/2013 10:41:59 AM PDT by EDINVA
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To: deport

I’m betting the owners of that house are feeling pretty fortunate right now.


19 posted on 04/20/2013 10:45:05 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: Cowboy Bob

What class? I was there for one year in ‘70-71 - I can’t recall all my classmates by name, but his is not familiar.


20 posted on 04/20/2013 10:47:48 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: UCANSEE2

The 210 has very long wings. The fuel is in the wings. It is essential that the plane be level when fueling or you can end up short a few gallons. I never planned the last 5 gallons!

T210 driver


21 posted on 04/20/2013 10:49:06 AM PDT by BillM (.)
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To: old curmudgeon; billorites

The general logged a lot of hours on big aircraft, so he was not inexperienced.

Is it possible he could have been that negligent about his fuel, especially with the wife aboard?


22 posted on 04/20/2013 10:51:55 AM PDT by Old Sarge (My "KMA List" is growing daily...)
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To: Fennie
MAJOR GENERAL JOSEPH D. BROWN IV

Who worked on that plane last?

23 posted on 04/20/2013 10:53:07 AM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: Fennie

Seven Days in May????


24 posted on 04/20/2013 10:53:21 AM PDT by djf (Rich widows: My Bitcoin address is... 1ETDmR4GDjwmc9rUEQnfB1gAnk6WLmd3n6)
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To: dagogo redux

He graduated with me in 1980.


25 posted on 04/20/2013 10:56:41 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Democrats: Robbing Peter to buy Paul's vote.)
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To: Old Sarge
"Is it possible he could have been that negligent about his fuel, especially with the wife aboard?"

I doubt that he ran out of fuel. The article says he was landing at the airport in Williamsburg. Even experienced pilots can be distracted in the traffic pattern, get too slow, stall and spin without sufficient altitude to recover.

26 posted on 04/20/2013 11:00:21 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: billorites

Gotcha. I always ask questions that I hope others can answer...


27 posted on 04/20/2013 11:01:09 AM PDT by Old Sarge (My "KMA List" is growing daily...)
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To: Old Sarge

We are overlooking something very important.

Yesterday was a very interesting weather day.

To think about this rationally, we need to know what the weather was in that immediate area at that time.

We also need to know where the flight originated. That would give a hint as to how much weather deviation was involved, winds aloft along the route, whether the route was a fuel stretch, etc.


28 posted on 04/20/2013 11:01:21 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: billorites

I suspect more aircraft run out of fuel on a three mile final than anywhere else.


29 posted on 04/20/2013 11:02:51 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: Fennie

Wonder what orders he was less than enthusiastic about? Gay indoctrination? Firing on American citizens? Taking orders from the U.N.? For starters...


30 posted on 04/20/2013 11:02:53 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (Don't believe any rumors in Washington, DC until they are officially denied.)
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To: old curmudgeon
Running out of fuel doesn't cause aircraft to "fall out of the sky" as described in the article. Airplanes fly fine without fuel, just not for very long or very far.

Stall/spin is what makes airplanes fall out of the sky. That Cessna was not flying when it crashed. It was plummeting.

31 posted on 04/20/2013 11:05:47 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: old curmudgeon

Thanks, OC!


32 posted on 04/20/2013 11:06:50 AM PDT by Old Sarge (My "KMA List" is growing daily...)
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To: djf
"Seven Days in May????"

Alternatively, he may have run low on "essence".

33 posted on 04/20/2013 11:07:35 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: darkwing104

B-1 and B-52 pilot.


34 posted on 04/20/2013 11:08:31 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: billorites
Airplanes fly fine without fuel, just not for very long or very far

Thinking that little Cessna has a pretty good glide ratio.

35 posted on 04/20/2013 11:11:57 AM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: billorites
As a non-pilot, I have a few questions. I'd always heard that the Cessna virtually flew itself...a forgiving plane. He was on a final approach to the runway so he had to be in control until right before the crash, when the plane( as described) went in almost nose first

Why assume he ran out of fuel. isn't it as likely, if not more so, that he suffered a heart attack, spasm at the controls, at the plane went in..an autopsy will tell.

36 posted on 04/20/2013 11:13:48 AM PDT by ken5050 (My tagline has mysteriously vanished...)
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To: billorites

One of the most common mistakes made when power is lost is to try to stretch the glide.

Trying to make a field just a little bit past that tree line or village or whatever.

That always ends in a stall spin close to the ground.

One must maintain the proper speed and take whatever comes because a crash under control beats a loss of control crash every time.

We don’t know what happened. The check I just made on the weather conditions at 5:00PM yesterday showed winds gusting to 35. It could have been something as simple as loss of control in turbulence.


37 posted on 04/20/2013 11:16:29 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: ken5050

That was exactly my guess, about 5 seconds before reading your post.

I think he had a medical emergency.

Also a non-pilot.


38 posted on 04/20/2013 11:21:16 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: ken5050
"I'd always heard that the Cessna virtually flew itself...a forgiving plane."

I expect every airplane that I'm flying will try to kill me at some point. The plane may be forgiving, but the hard earth is unyielding.

Medical incapacitation of pilots is pretty rare. Much more common is fuel exhaustion. Perhaps he did run out of fuel, tried to stretch the glide, then stalled and spun it. That photo shows an aircraft that was out of control when it crashed. Fuel exhaustion does not render an aircraft out of control.

39 posted on 04/20/2013 11:21:27 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: billorites

No aircraft is forgiving in 35 MPH winds.

The weather I read was in MPH, not knots.

Never flew a 210, but I suspect that is is not a great ride close to the ground in that kind of wind combined with frontal passage or a squall line.

I don’t fly any more. Too old and can’t pass a medical and so longer watch aviation weather, but I do watch commercial weather closely.

My F350 has the Ford nav system on it and one of the nice features is the radar display.

I checked it at about that time and it showed a squall line out ahead of the front along the east coast. I would say very close to the Richmond / Williamsburg area.


40 posted on 04/20/2013 11:29:01 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: billorites

Thanks for the information..One more question...lets assume that he ran out of gas, and tried to stretch the glide..could the loss of control at the last minute be due to a sudden attempt to avoid crashing into a house..IOW, he thought he could make a dead-stick landing..which as I understand it, the pilot is mentally doing the calculations..air-speed, rate of descent...to see if he can make it to whatever possible landing area he’s picked out..at the last second, he realizes he’s misjudged it..there’s a house directly ahead, so he attempts to evade..to avoid killing anyone inside the house and also because he has a much better chance to survive an impact with a grass lawn than with a brick house..


41 posted on 04/20/2013 11:30:15 AM PDT by ken5050 (My tagline has mysteriously vanished...)
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To: dead

http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/


42 posted on 04/20/2013 11:32:03 AM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname (I really hate not knowing what was said in the deleted posts....)
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To: old curmudgeon

“Dead stick” is not possible. Flame out and you have no hydraulics and you are toast. If you have altitude and time and the engines are windmilling, then you can attempt a re-start.

So, NO, you don’t get dead stick training because you CAN’T dead stick the jet. Same with other jets.


43 posted on 04/20/2013 11:34:22 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: Fennie

Was in the Omaha World Hearld newspaper this morning. Family lived in Nebraska. Must have had ties to Offutt AFB.


44 posted on 04/20/2013 11:34:40 AM PDT by MountainDad (Support your local Militia)
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To: ken5050

Or had a white stripe around his head.


45 posted on 04/20/2013 11:34:44 AM PDT by bgill
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To: billorites

Or bird strike.


46 posted on 04/20/2013 11:35:35 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: ken5050

I flew a light plane until I read that doing so eventually ends in death by crash for one in 250. (or something like that)

Then I thought of the life insurance forms where they ALWAYS inquire: “Do you pilot your own airplane?”


47 posted on 04/20/2013 11:40:07 AM PDT by Huebolt (A country that has tipped will fall. RIP USA)
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To: Cowboy Bob

Sorry for your loss. I know how strong the bonds can be sometimes for a fellow Rat.

[I didn’t notice his age before I posted, but once I did I realized you and he were after my time.]


48 posted on 04/20/2013 11:42:56 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: Hulka

*****So, NO, you don’t get dead stick training because you CAN’T dead stick the jet. Same with other jets.*****

I met a former F-104 pilot who assured me that he personally knew a fellow pilot who dead sticked a starfighter.

I can only imagine the pilot dove at 60 degrees or so, building up max IAS, and then managed to flair out at the last second.

I was always told that they glide like a brick...


49 posted on 04/20/2013 11:45:23 AM PDT by Huebolt (A country that has tipped will fall. RIP USA)
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To: ken5050
"could the loss of control at the last minute be due to a sudden attempt to avoid crashing into a house."

No one was flying that airplane when it crashed. It was out of control.

Controlled flight into the woods, even after loss of engine power, would have destroyed the airplane while likely leaving passengers unharmed. That happens all the time.

The worse thing a pilot can do is to try to save the airplane. That's when they try to stretch the glide or do something else that's not possible.

That airplane stopped flying somewhere way up in the air and not just before crashing.

There is some crucial information that we just don't have. None of the news reports say whether the flight originated at Williamsburg or whether that was the destination. Makes guessing about fuel exhaustion vs. mechanical problems difficult to assess. Engine failure immediately after takeoff vs. after a 5 hour flight suggests different potential causes. There is nothing in any of the articles that says anything about fuel exhaustion. Even in the presence of fuel post-crash fires are not inevitable. It will be months before the NTSB releases a final report. When preliminary information becomes available look for comments about the presence or absence of fuel smell, amount of fuel drained from tanks, etc.

50 posted on 04/20/2013 11:56:14 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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