Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Paul: Drones would have been OK in Boston manhunt
Hot Air ^ | 4-23-2013 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 04/23/2013 9:54:24 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot

An important clarification from Senator Rand Paul, who made headlines for a rare talking filibuster challenging Barack Obama to explain the difference between using drones against American citizens overseas and using them in the United States. Neil Cavuto asked Paul about the distinction yesterday in light of the manhunt for American citizen Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on Friday, in which a drone or two with real-time infrared downlook capabilities above Watertown might have saved a little time. Paul told Cavuto that this wasn’t the use to which he objected:

“If there’s a killer on the loose in a neighborhood, I’m not against drones being used to search them out, heat-seeking devices being used, I’m all for law enforcement,” Paul said on Fox Business Network’s Cavuto last night. “I’m just not for surveillance when there’s no probable cause that a crime’s being committed.”

“Here’s the distinction, Neil, I’ve never argued against any technology being used when you have an imminent threat, active crime going on,” he added.

Actually, I thought that distinction was pretty clear all along. The police have used helicopters for decades to track suspects on the run from law enforcement, and haven’t been shy about using the latest surveillance technology in the air or on the ground. Case law has long allowed that kind of aerial surveillance, especially for open areas outside of houses, even in back yards. The only difference is in the aerial platform and whether a pilot is along for the ride.

The question Paul wanted answered was not about surveillance but about offensive operations ......

(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: 113th; citizen; counterterrorism; domestic; drones; randpaul
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-63 next last
How do we know if we are on a slippery slope?

Do citizens have safegurad against government abuse?

1 posted on 04/23/2013 9:54:24 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

bs....


2 posted on 04/23/2013 9:56:54 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

It is a moot point, and, frankly, a pointless interjection into the scope of events. The facts are that the ‘authorities,’ whoever that might be were using infrared detection (FLIR?) from a helicopter (or suitable platform). Makes no difference, manned or not in this case.


3 posted on 04/23/2013 9:57:36 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

Sure appears to me that a drone WAS used for inspecting the boat.


4 posted on 04/23/2013 9:57:53 AM PDT by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (PRISON AT BENGHAZI?????)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

I read it was a helicopter with FLIR technology onboard.


5 posted on 04/23/2013 10:01:15 AM PDT by bubbacluck (You don't drive out the darkness; you turn on the light.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

Your only safeguard is your weapons. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be. There are those that shuffle on the train and those that will never do that. It has always been that way as well.


6 posted on 04/23/2013 10:04:53 AM PDT by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer
They only used the heat seeking helicopter AFTER they found the guy. It could have been a dog, too.

It was absolutely unnecessary.

7 posted on 04/23/2013 10:07:21 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: liege; Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
My understanding, too.

If switched to an unmanned aerial platform, how do we know ‘if a crime is being committed’ or not?

Hence my question about safeguard against government abuse.

8 posted on 04/23/2013 10:07:39 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot
Drones are all well and good. But nothing beats storm troopers from going house to house ordering you to leave.

The controversial moment SWAT teams ordered innocent neighbors out of their houses at GUNPOINT ...

Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:46:29 AM · by Uncle Chip · 124 replies
The Daily Mail Online ^ | April 23, 2013 | Daily Mail Reporter

 

9 posted on 04/23/2013 10:08:23 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

Are reporters really this dumb? (Rhetorical)


10 posted on 04/23/2013 10:09:21 AM PDT by Raycpa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

He was found a half mile from the shootout his brother died at. Maybe a bloodhound would have been useful. Have they all been phased out by technology?


11 posted on 04/23/2013 10:09:54 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau

I did not hear that. From what I saw on TV, I was lead to believe that this was the big ‘get’....my bad then.


12 posted on 04/23/2013 10:11:58 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot
"If switched to an unmanned aerial platform, how do we know ‘if a crime is being committed’ or not?"

The governor of your state will text you a 'stay in place' order.

13 posted on 04/23/2013 10:12:14 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Raycpa

Reporters?

This is Sen. Rand Paul, and Ed Morrissey of Hot Air (a conservative opinion writer) thought it no biggie.


14 posted on 04/23/2013 10:12:26 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

They set up a perimeter and searched within the perimeter with dogs, helicopters, people, etc. The Joker was a block or so outside of the perimeter though.


15 posted on 04/23/2013 10:12:39 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Straight Vermonter

He walked a half mile from the first shootout. Are you telling me a bloodhound couldn’t have followed the trail of a bleeding man that far?


16 posted on 04/23/2013 10:14:02 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

Like everything else it starts out being used to aprehend criminals and ends up being used for surveilance on citizens.

Like the speed camera’s They started being used to slow down traffic, and then started being used to raise money.


17 posted on 04/23/2013 10:15:04 AM PDT by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

The Afghans have automatic rifles which are not crippled to three-shot-burst like civilians in the US are allowed to have. They also have anti-aircraft missiles, MANPADs and the like. And still, they cannot do anything against the drones.

Remember this, and you’ll see what a truly slippery slope it is when a government can wield combat drones against its own population.

A true reading of the Second Amendment cannot allow for restrictions against what a free citizen can possess to check the balance of power against the government. Even if that means private ownership of combat jets.


18 posted on 04/23/2013 10:15:10 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

In that case, what’s the difference between a drone with FLIR and a manned police helicopter with FLIR other than where the pilot and observers are sitting?

}:-)4


19 posted on 04/23/2013 10:16:42 AM PDT by Moose4 (SHALL. NOT. BE. INFRINGED.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

Hot pursuit is pretty cut and dry and the only question is when to break off surveillance after they lose the perp. I don’t think we need or want drones flying for weeks while some perp decomposes in a shed or parties in Mexico.


20 posted on 04/23/2013 10:18:08 AM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Sir Napsalot

how many swat teams were needef to catch oswald or the ut sniper?


22 posted on 04/23/2013 10:20:27 AM PDT by AlmaKing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Straight Vermonter
They set up a perimeter and searched within the perimeter with dogs, helicopters, people, etc. The Joker was a block or so outside of the perimeter though.

As an old fan of the show "24" I have to chuckle every time I hear the word perimeter. It was turned into a drinking game on the Dave Barry "24" blog because they mentioned the word so much. And of course the CTU "perimeter" was more leaky than a faucet with no washer!

23 posted on 04/23/2013 10:25:46 AM PDT by mc5cents
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
He walked a half mile from the first shootout.

I thought he drove? Wasn't it reported that he had run over his brother?

24 posted on 04/23/2013 10:27:03 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

They had helicopters with advanced optics. What would a drone have added?

Boston revealed that in an emergency the police, FBI, and ATF will trample civil rights, aim weapons at innocent Americans, and accomplish relatively nothing, and do it soo Boston Strong that your arse will hurt for days.

The people of Boston could have been yanked without warrants from their homes and then led onto trains to concentration camps and those idiots would have thanked the Feds for the free ride... Boston Strong!

The good news is that I no longer fear a Federal martial law. There is no way in hell they could deal with that and there is no way in hell it would work. The stupidity and disorder would have been 10X worse the other night if you had a remedially-trained fire team in the area shooting at those officers instead of one, pathetic terrorist.

Plus, there’s no money to pay for the overtime.


25 posted on 04/23/2013 10:29:51 AM PDT by Noamie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer
They only called the helicopter AFTER the homeowner called 9-11 to verify there was a "warm body" in there.It was a lot of bull.

The homeowner had climbed a ladder to look inside and saw the guy curled up. He knew what he had and called 9-11.

What makes it worse....he was only found AFTER the curfew had been lifted when he noticed his boat not like he had it.

Then their announcement..."We got him".

Note: The FBI had a party after they captured the Unabomber...t-shirt and all.

26 posted on 04/23/2013 10:33:33 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer
They only called the helicopter AFTER the homeowner called 9-11 to verify there was a "warm body" in there.It was a lot of bull.

The homeowner had climbed a ladder to look inside and saw the guy curled up. He knew what he had and called 9-11.

What makes it worse....he was only found AFTER the curfew had been lifted when he noticed his boat not like he had it.

Then their announcement..."We got him".

Note: The FBI had a party after they captured the Unabomber...t-shirts and all.

27 posted on 04/23/2013 10:33:42 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett
Even if that means private ownership of combat jets.

The Constitution explicitly recognizes the private ownership of what were basically battleships in their day. Letters of Marque and Reprisal authorized private citizens to go after Muslim pirate/slavers (The Barbary Coast Pirates... "To the shores of Tripoli").

To go after those pirates and their trans-Atlantic ships, one would need... anyone anyone? Bueller? Bueller?... yes, that's right, ships of their own, of equal or greater size and abilities.

It is not weaponry that has changed, it is our culture and what we have allowed our leadership to do to us.

28 posted on 04/23/2013 10:33:48 AM PDT by Teacher317 (Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Teacher317

I agree.


29 posted on 04/23/2013 10:34:34 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

More dogs might have “inflamed” fragile muslim sensitivities. (Do I really need a /sarc here?)


30 posted on 04/23/2013 10:34:56 AM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
Doubly racist. You're criticizing The One, and using a derogatory ethnic slur to boot. Report to re-education camp immediately.
31 posted on 04/23/2013 10:35:49 AM PDT by Teacher317 (Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Hot Tabasco

The Watertown police chief said that after he ran over his brother and smashed past two police cars he drove about a hundred yards and abandoned his car.


32 posted on 04/23/2013 10:37:04 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: James C. Bennett

I’d like to know where I can just go out and get a selective fire weapon with the kind of ease you imply. The only kind of rifle I can get that comes remotely close (without huge fees and wait times and extensive background checks, etc...) is a semi-auto. One trigger pull one bullet, lather, rinse, repeat.

Civilians can’t just go out and get a selective fire weapon, which includes full auto and 3 round burst. Those are true assault weapons, not what is commonly available in the typical civ AR platform.


34 posted on 04/23/2013 10:42:37 AM PDT by jurroppi1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot
"If there’s a killer on the loose in a neighborhood, I’m not against drones being used to search them out, heat-seeking devices being used, I’m all for law enforcement,” Paul said on Fox Business Network’s Cavuto last night. “I’m just not for surveillance when there’s no probable cause that a crime’s being committed."

I would just like to point out that at any given time, somewhere in the US there is a "killer on the loose in a neighborhood". It may even be a mad man more dangerous than some 19 year old bleeding coward terrorist puke.

So logically I guess we should have drones flying patterns 24/7 in all populated areas. Or they could just stop infringing our 2nd amendment, rights and let us take care of ourselves.

35 posted on 04/23/2013 10:50:21 AM PDT by Casie (democrats destroy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

Some day soon, they’ll be tossing U.S.-born citizens into Gitmo as enemy combatants, and we’ll all sit around wondering how we got there.


36 posted on 04/23/2013 10:50:41 AM PDT by Wolfie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Casie

“At any given time” is a little different than “probable cause that a crime’s being committed.”


37 posted on 04/23/2013 10:54:00 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

You would think the dogs could have.


38 posted on 04/23/2013 10:55:42 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Joe 6-pack

In the local rag’s ‘mail call’ section, people are asking what the recent ‘strange lights in the night sky’ are and wondering if they’re drones.

As a sign of the times, nobody’s even remotely suggested the usual “UFO” crap.


39 posted on 04/23/2013 10:57:38 AM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Casie
Paul: “I’m just not for surveillance when there’s no probable cause that a crime’s being committed.”
A CRIME is always being committed somewhere.

On top of ubiquitous surveillance cameras everywhere, Sen Paul and Ed Morrissey apparently think it is ok to have surveillance drones over citizens. (Note: that was my comment on Ed's post)

40 posted on 04/23/2013 11:01:45 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Salamander

The aliens have been waiting for that. We’re never gonna see ‘em comin’ at this rate! ;^)


41 posted on 04/23/2013 11:09:08 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

/facepalm

LOL


“I have a question for Hagerstown residents. Did anyone see unidentified flying objects on Saturday, April 13? That night, I, and five confirmed others at separate locations, saw triangles over the north side of the city, while looking for the Northern Lights. Electronics were even affected at two other known locations from these things. Were drones around?”
— Hagerstown”

I’ve seen the ‘triangles’ myself.
I figured it was our guys in some new tech-gizmo and waved at them.

Salamander The Unflappable Pragmatic

[I more curious as to why they were looking for the northen lights *here*]


42 posted on 04/23/2013 11:15:21 AM PDT by Salamander (Like acid and oil on a madman's face, reason tends to fly away.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

“Probably a crime being committed somewhere in this neighborhood. Lets buzz this street again just to make sure. “


43 posted on 04/23/2013 11:15:47 AM PDT by Casie (democrats destroy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: jurroppi1

Afghanistan, LOL.

I was only making the point that restrictions on the civilian ownership of any weapon goes against the true spirit of the 2nd Amendment, which aims for civilians to outmatch the power of the government.


44 posted on 04/23/2013 11:17:56 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Casie

Clearly not what Rand Paul meant. What’s the difference between a helicopter doing surveillance of an active chase and a drone?


45 posted on 04/23/2013 11:18:15 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Salamander

The newsies were telling people the Northern Lights might be visible further south than usual a week or so ago. My friend in south Jersey heard it and was hoping to see them too. Never did.


46 posted on 04/23/2013 11:20:54 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

It boils down to, do we have just cause to trust government to do what they say they are going to do?


47 posted on 04/23/2013 11:20:59 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot

No. So, do we shut down all gooberment activity (because I don’t trust them on anything) and if ‘yes’ how do we do that?


48 posted on 04/23/2013 11:22:34 AM PDT by TigersEye (If babies had guns they wouldn't be aborted)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Sir Napsalot
Am I the only one who saw the FLIR system being used with automated targeting systems being fired?
It's all over the news, but I guess people have no idea what they're watching.

The Technology "was" used in Boston, but because it was connected
to a helicopter it's ok I guess.

49 posted on 04/23/2013 11:23:49 AM PDT by MaxMax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
I don't have any answer.

I am questioning Sen Paul. From what he said, he can not guarantee government won't use surveillance drones when there’s no probable cause that a crime’s being committed.

50 posted on 04/23/2013 11:29:52 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-63 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson