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Watertown House to House police search

Posted on 04/24/2013 8:15:55 AM PDT by jt2

How is it at all legal for the police to have coerced people from their homes during the house to house search that was conducted in Watertown MA last week?

By 'coerced', I mean being told to leave their residence by police SWAT teams. When you have 10 police pointing rifles at you, yelling at your to get out of your house, I'd consider that coersion.

These people were removed from their homes and forced to go someplace else. It appears that they were not 'allowed' back into their homes for hours.

How is that possible in America?

Were homeowners able to decline having their homes searched?

Were they allowed to remain or return to their homes if they wanted to?

Could they have been arrested for interfering with police work for declining to have their homes search, or for trying to remain in their homes?

This is a major story...that is being ignored by the MSM. If all of that was legal and allowable, then we really have no rights left in this police state that we live in.


TOPICS: FReeper Editorial; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; absolutedespotism; communism; donttreadonme; donutwatch; govtabuse; jackbootedbrownshirt; longtrainofabuses; militarizedpolice; policestate; rapeofliberty; swat; swatabuse; tyranny; usurpations; vanity; waronliberty

1 posted on 04/24/2013 8:15:55 AM PDT by jt2
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To: jt2

We are being told that because the ACLU has not put up a fight that this was OK.


2 posted on 04/24/2013 8:17:09 AM PDT by frogjerk (We are conservatives. Not libertarians, not "fiscal conservatives", not moderates)
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To: jt2

Public safety.


3 posted on 04/24/2013 8:17:24 AM PDT by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: jt2
"They" can do anything for the "common good".
Just ask Nancy.
4 posted on 04/24/2013 8:19:10 AM PDT by grobdriver
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To: jt2

I share this concern. This is EXACTLY why the 4th Amendment exists. The British were forcing themselves into homes at will. This precedent is horrendous and needs to be challenged.


5 posted on 04/24/2013 8:20:07 AM PDT by ilgipper (The lesson for the GOP is simple - don't let the opposition define you)
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To: mbarker12474

“Public Safety”

So, you’re saying it legal for police to remove you from your home, for whatever reason they may come up with that has to do with some il defined “Public Safety”?

Any idea what law this is covered under?


6 posted on 04/24/2013 8:23:14 AM PDT by jt2
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To: ilgipper

Most excellent point, which I intend to bring up with my congresscritter.


7 posted on 04/24/2013 8:24:45 AM PDT by tgusa (gun control: deep breath, sight alignment, squeeze the trigger .......)
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To: jt2

This was a test case for what is to come. Can anyone say, “False Flag”?


8 posted on 04/24/2013 8:25:06 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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To: jt2

I told you all that all those SWAT teams that were created compliments of your “war” on drugs, were just practicing on the potheads with their Gestapo style raids. Now they are practicing the house to house searches. Should I ruin the surprise and tell you what comes next? Because a lot of people here are going to learn the hard way that leos really aren’t their friends.


9 posted on 04/24/2013 8:25:54 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: jt2
It's somewhat ironic that this was in Massachusetts, and the 4th Amendment is in the Bill of Rights specifically because of the behavior of King George's troops in Massachusetts.

If the 4th Amendment is now inoperative, why not house-to-house searches in Chicago to look for illegal guns? More are murdered over a typical Chicago weekend than died as a result of the brothers Tsarnaev's terrorism.

It's for the children, after all.

10 posted on 04/24/2013 8:26:21 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: jt2
Should have said, "You don't have a warrant." and then lay down on the floor. I would not submit to being yelled at and forced to run cowering out of my house. Literally, just shoot me. Just like the woman in Russia, I don't care anymore. If they want me out of the house, they can carry me out. If the feel the need to shoot me to do it, so be it. Enough of this.

If you want to stop this, start rounding up MUSLIMS and make them run cowering out of THEIR houses. Otherwise, get it on -- start shooting.

11 posted on 04/24/2013 8:27:24 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: jt2

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

I think it depends on how “reasonable” is defined and who exactly defines it, us or them. There can be considerable asymmetry in how “reasonable” is approached.


12 posted on 04/24/2013 8:27:26 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: jt2

As Emiliano Zapata so correctly said, “Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.”


13 posted on 04/24/2013 8:28:11 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: mbarker12474

You would have made a Good German.


14 posted on 04/24/2013 8:30:11 AM PDT by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: jt2

Could you have said, “NO!”, and shut your door?

Let them break it down, arrest you, and sue the bastards for failing to have a search warrant + damages + penalties for violating civil rights.


15 posted on 04/24/2013 8:32:55 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (All observant Muslims want to kill you. If they don't, they are not really Muslims.)
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To: frogjerk
We are being told that because the ACLU has not put up a fight that this was OK.

LOL! Well played.

16 posted on 04/24/2013 8:37:10 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

17 posted on 04/24/2013 8:37:47 AM PDT by Daffynition (Stand Your Ground)
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To: jt2

I wonder what happened or would have happened if a home was unoccupied?
Just go to the next or break in?


18 posted on 04/24/2013 8:38:57 AM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: jt2

Who did they ask to leave? I thought they just searched.


19 posted on 04/24/2013 8:39:40 AM PDT by AppyPappy (You never see a massacre at a gun show.)
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To: Uncle Miltie
And I'm sure the adrenaline junkies with their body armor and sub machine guns wouldn't put a few rounds into your dog and maybe you if you flinch in a threatening manner.

But you have to support law enforcement! They have shiny badges and are more equal than us lumpen.

20 posted on 04/24/2013 8:40:24 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Orangedog

Can anyone confirm that the video posted of the police forcing the people out of their home at gun point took place in Boston during the manhunt? I’ve been told that the home or street was not identified and that the video may be from an unrelated event. Would love to know if the illegal searches actually occured.


21 posted on 04/24/2013 8:45:31 AM PDT by RBW in PA
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To: Sooth2222
If the 4th Amendment is now inoperative, why not house-to-house searches in Chicago to look for illegal guns?

Shhhh...you're going to ruin the surprise when it happens in their town, not just chicago or watertown. A lot of freepers still think this can't happen to good, conservative supporters of law enforcement. It's just those damn new england liberals and druggies who get this treatment.

22 posted on 04/24/2013 8:48:21 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: jt2

If they had multiple eye witnesses saying they saw the terrorist run into a mosque, would they have handled it the same? I doubt it. They can only get away with what the people allow. We are screwed.


23 posted on 04/24/2013 8:50:06 AM PDT by ConservaTexan (February 6, 1911)
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To: RBW in PA

You mean opposed to all the other house to house searches by swat teams in the suburbs last week? I’m sure this was just a video of some potheads getting raided and getting what was coming to them for being druggies.


24 posted on 04/24/2013 8:52:12 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Orangedog

Normal Germans before they put on their Nazi uniforms. Normal every day Germans after the war. Blood thirsty thugs when society allowed and requested them to be in order to round up civilian “threats” during the war. Don’t think it can’t happen here.

Theses videos are much more terrifying to me than watching the towers fall. Makes my blood boil.


25 posted on 04/24/2013 8:53:17 AM PDT by Tail Gunner John
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To: Kozak

> You would have made a good German.

Calm down.

This is not a new or fearful situation. Police remove folks from homes and keep them from their homes frequently, in situations involving public safety.

Recently in Texas, for example:

“After fleeing their homes in an evacuation and then being forced to stay away by safety concerns and a continuing investigation, the first wave of West residents were allowed to Saturday.”

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/23/178678505/death-toll-in-west-texas-fertilizer-explosion-rises-to-15

On the other hand, shutting down the entire city of Boston while chasing down one dude on the run, and perhaps some unknown accomplices, is unprecedented, and needs revisited.


26 posted on 04/24/2013 8:54:00 AM PDT by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: ilgipper
I share this concern.

So do I, however it is tempered by the realization that these bastards had already killed civilians and an LEO, and taken a hostage earlier that night.

They knew he had not broken out of their perimeter but they could not locate him. Looking back just a few months ago we had the exact same scenario in California with the wac-a-doodle LAPD guy. He forted up with hostages for a long time and was able to avoid detection.

I am sure the Leos expected this guy had done the same thing which under the circumstances was not an unreasonable assumption given the perimeter lock down and their inability to locate the suspect.

I don't like it but what were they suppose to do just pack it up and go home knowing the guy was still somewhere close by?

I do not blame the Leos for the situation they were forced into, I blame the politicians for creating this security vulnerability in the first place.

27 posted on 04/24/2013 8:54:28 AM PDT by usurper (Liberals GET OFF MY LAWN)
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To: jt2
I have not heard anyone come forward and say, "I told them to get a warrant!" and then refused them entry. At that time if the police forcibly entered the home I think there would be many lawyers lining up for the $$$.

The video I saw shows the people running from their homes like sheep with their hands up and directed to an area to be searched (without a warrant) for hand guns or pressure cookers.

28 posted on 04/24/2013 8:56:15 AM PDT by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: Tail Gunner John
I love how so many people think the laws of human nature have either been repealed or don't apply to us. Or that somehow we're a different species from Germans or Italians in the 1930s.

How many cops in Mass turned in their badges instead of participating in that collective shitting on the constitution? I'll go out on a limb and say not a single one. All you big leo suppprters here....you think yoir friends or family members on the force will refuse to do house to house searches? If so, could I interest you in a used car?

29 posted on 04/24/2013 9:02:03 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: usurper
I don't like it but what were they suppose to do just pack it up and go home knowing the guy was still somewhere close by?

How about something between that but far short of marching people out of their homes at the business end of sub machine guns? Can we do something like that instead before putting on our knee pads to show our unending and unquestioned support of law enforcement?

30 posted on 04/24/2013 9:16:08 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: usurper
They knew he had not broken out of their perimeter but they could not locate him

maybe because he was actually outside their perimeter.

31 posted on 04/24/2013 9:27:30 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (RIP Chrissie Amphlett.)
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To: jt2

I think the topic is an important one to discuss. We need to have parameters on this. I can also tell you that I have a friend in Watertown who was within the area of interest. She was inside posting pictures on Facebook during that time.

There were cops who saw her through the window. They motioned towards the garage and pointed to her. She gave them the thumbs up. With their weapons at the ready, they entered her detached garage. They came out, motioned again to her that she was safe and then went to the back door. She came to the door, thanked them and told them that she and her son were quite safe inside.

She was terrified of the guy on the loose and was grateful for the professionalism of law enforcement. These cops were guys who live in the community. Doesn’t mean that it will be this way every other time some city tries to do this, but from eye witness commentary from reliable people, I do not think there was a problem in Watertown. They were NOT pulling people out of their homes by gun point. There was video of cops with young children in their arms running them out of the line of fire.

There is a lot of unconstitutional crap going on around us, but this wasn’t part of that. It does highlight the importance of community police departments rather than a federal force.


32 posted on 04/24/2013 9:28:01 AM PDT by tkas (Conservative mom)
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To: mbarker12474

Like when they come around the coastal areas during hurricanes and force people to leave their property or not allow people access to their homes in a wildfire in an attempt to save it. In the same vein however you see members of the press running freely all over disaster zones because they are the press.

Caveat, if you don’t want to leave then the government has no liability for your safety.


33 posted on 04/24/2013 9:34:09 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: tkas

There was one video I saw that was disturbing, but for the most part, I suspect you are right.


34 posted on 04/24/2013 9:36:13 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("AP" clearly stands for American Pravda. Our news media has become completely and proudly Soviet.)
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To: jt2

They did not have so much as a single warrant stating the area to be searched was “Watertown” and the purpose “find a suspect”. Nothing. Nada. No question they could have obtained one that broad before enough personnel arrived to start searching. Warrantless searches are only appropriate when there truly is no time under the circumstances; they had all day to get one here.


35 posted on 04/24/2013 9:39:33 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesnÂ’t make bad people harmless.)
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To: tkas

Good post. Has anyone who actually lives in the area complained about police behavior? I have yet to hear of it. Believe me, I’m not a “the cops are always right” kind of guy, but it seems crys of “Gestapo” are not coming from the folks who were there.


36 posted on 04/24/2013 9:41:16 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: jt2

4th Amendment (Due Process)

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Sounds like unless there was a warrant it probably was an unreasonable search.


37 posted on 04/24/2013 9:45:46 AM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: Sooth2222

King George III did not give us the Patriot Act, Transportation Security Act, National Defense Authorization Act and Homeland Security.


38 posted on 04/24/2013 9:48:16 AM PDT by Boston Blackie
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To: tkas
It does highlight the importance of community police departments rather than a federal force.

Bingo, we have a winner. But Dear Leader dearly wants a Federal Police force that is armed as well as our Army. FUBO!

39 posted on 04/24/2013 9:50:58 AM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: Lazamataz

No one has identified the address where that video took place. If that were a drug house full of illegal aliens, I would be cheering.


40 posted on 04/24/2013 10:36:20 AM PDT by tkas (Conservative mom)
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To: tkas

There were other videos showing other residents hustled out of their homes, and not just the one video of the green house. Some of the videos were shot by the media, like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k


41 posted on 04/24/2013 10:42:28 AM PDT by jt2
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To: jt2

Is there any evidence

any documentation

any proof

anywhere

that during the Watertown search legally owned firearms were seized or confiscated from anyone?

Was anyone arrested anywhere in Watertown for armed defense of their residence?


42 posted on 04/24/2013 11:59:00 AM PDT by Petruchio (Democrats are like Slinkies... Not good for anything, but it's fun pushing 'em down the stairs.)
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To: usurper

True. Extreme cases can call for unusual and sometimes uncomfortable situations. Our history is filled with them. The scary thing is the precedent that can result. We need to be vigilant that this is not acceptable..that it is the exception, not the rule.

The question is how extreme was this case. Like 9/11, this is brand new. We have not had street chases after terrorists before Boston. Other countries have regular cases like this. When is it permissible, and how can the government abuse this precedent for non-terror related incidences.


43 posted on 04/25/2013 6:36:09 AM PDT by ilgipper (The lesson for the GOP is simple - don't let the opposition define you)
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To: jt2

44 posted on 04/25/2013 6:39:45 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: jt2

This is much ado about nothing.

No one “told” them or “demanded under color of law or authority” that the residents leave their abode.

They residents do not recognize their rights, period.

I’m sure the leo came on to them with a sense ofuurgency but, they didn’t force them to leave.

Witness the leo banging on the doors of what were apparently and at that moment unoccupied.

Having received no answer despite loud exortation and banging on the doors with the butts of their rifles, they didn’t break down the door and search the residence but, they did give up and move on to the resident.

If the people of Newtown wanted to excercise. Their 1, 3, 4 and 5th. Amendment that was wholly their prerogative and right.


45 posted on 04/30/2013 10:44:18 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: RedMDer

That! Is exactly what happened.


46 posted on 04/30/2013 10:46:38 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome

Break in or go to the next?


47 posted on 04/30/2013 10:50:08 AM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: RedMDer

There was no answer from within and they moved on to the next home and did so until they received an answer from within.

At that point they forcefully and with a sense of urgency exhorted the resident to leave for their safety, so they could secure the property and ensure the Islamist fag wasn’t in there.


48 posted on 04/30/2013 10:57:16 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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