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All that Ammo
Townhall.com ^ | April 28, 2013 | Bob Beauprez

Posted on 04/28/2013 9:04:03 AM PDT by Kaslin

An enraged Barack Obama lashed out at Congress and "willing liars" who defeated efforts to expand federal gun control laws. Obama and Joe Biden spent weeks – and millions of taxpayer dollars – campaigning for a federal registry of gun owners, ban on entire classes of firearms, and capacity limits for magazines and clips.

But, at the same time that Obama was trying to limit or deny the rights of citizens, the government was loading up – literally – in an unprecedented way, including 174,000 hollow-point bullets for the Social Security Administration.

Some of the truth was exposed in a recent Congressional hearing and a subsequent IBD editorial.  As the editors say, "The government that would limit law-abiding citizens to some seven bullets to defend their families and their homes still has some explaining to do."

Following are some key excerpts from the IBD editorial and link to the entire feature:

Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz on Thursday asked Nick Nayak, DHS' chief procurement officer, a question we and others have been asking: Why has the Department of Homeland Security been buying so much ammunition?

Dismissed as a concern only of right-wing conspiracy theorists, the reported amounts as high as 2 billion rounds have varied and been explained not as a one-time purchase but a bulk buy over five years to reduce costs. It's one of the rare instances, apparently, a government agency has actually cared about such a thing.

Comparing that with the small-arms purchases by the U.S. Army, he said the DHS is churning through between 1,300 and 1,600 rounds per officer per year, while the Army goes through roughly 350 per officer.

"What does not make sense in the information you provided is that Customs and Border Control used (around 14 million) rounds for operational purposes when they rarely fire their guns," a skeptical Chaffetz said, citing just one example of a particular allocation.

Jonathan L. Lasher, the Social Security Administration's assistant inspector general for external relations, has previously explained the purchase of 174,000 hollow-point bullets by saying they were for the Social Security inspector general's office. Its 295 agents investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes. Read more here


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: ammo; banglist; dhsammo; guncontrol; secondamendment

1 posted on 04/28/2013 9:04:03 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

2 posted on 04/28/2013 9:08:09 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight,, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Kaslin
The government that would limit law-abiding citizens to some seven bullets to defend their families and their homes still has some explaining to do

Not necessary. The reason for our limits and their non-limits is quite clear. They don't want any of their jack booted thugs to get hurt when they storm your house in violation of the 4th amendment.

Nothing to do with crime, saving the taxpayer money (LOL) or any other BS reason they put forth.

3 posted on 04/28/2013 9:13:02 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: Kaslin

An enraged Barack Obama lashed out at Congress and “willing liars”

You’re tied in a knot
But I’m not gonna get caught
Calling a pot kettle black
Every song’s a comeback
Every moment’s a little bit later

Lazy locomotives
Wherever you may roll
I think you have no motive
I know you have no home

Take a couple Midol, Barry.


4 posted on 04/28/2013 9:15:10 AM PDT by tumblindice
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To: Kaslin

But, but, but.....Free Republic’s resident GOP-E shills said that its just normal government purchasing..../sarc


5 posted on 04/28/2013 9:16:40 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Kaslin

Hey Barack!

Would you like to be specific about the rebuttals you consider to be “lies”.

The only lying going on is from your quarters.

Anytime you’d like to debate the issue in public, just let us know.


6 posted on 04/28/2013 9:17:44 AM PDT by G Larry (Darkness Hates the Light)
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To: tumblindice

Bump


7 posted on 04/28/2013 9:18:00 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: G Larry

Excellent point


8 posted on 04/28/2013 9:18:54 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: GenXteacher

And which opposing facts did YOU bring to that discussion?


9 posted on 04/28/2013 9:19:18 AM PDT by G Larry (Darkness Hates the Light)
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To: G Larry

None. After reading a few threads and noting that some of the same posters also were Romney advocates during the primary season, I determined that their information was likely to be false.


10 posted on 04/28/2013 9:23:13 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Kaslin

This is so much BS. First of all, how many of you shooters out there that are interested in reducing the cost of recoil therapy use hollow point or PDA rounds? I for one that shoots regularly use FMJ rounds for training and hollow points for operational ammo (Read: Carry ammunition). This saves a lot of $$$. I wish some of these congress critters knew the right questions to ask these Bolshevik bureaucrats.


11 posted on 04/28/2013 9:28:02 AM PDT by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: Kaslin
An enraged Barack Obama lashed out at Congress and "willing liars" who defeated efforts to expand federal gun control laws.

"Willing liars."

Yeah, THAT's Presidential, huh?

Throwing a tantrum on TV because he can't get rid of a Constitutional right for all American Citizens because HE doesn't like it ranks right up there with a third grade playground bully.

What a screeching bitch...

.

12 posted on 04/28/2013 9:29:53 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Kaslin
said the Willing Liar in CHIEF!!!

13 posted on 04/28/2013 9:39:42 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: TLI

Like I said yesterday in another thread, he is like a spoiled brat who throws a temper tantrum when he doesn’t get his way. A good parent would make clear to the brat that he could not get everything that he wants.


14 posted on 04/28/2013 9:50:59 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: GenXteacher
Don't tell me you are happy with that arrogant pos occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

*rme*

15 posted on 04/28/2013 9:54:19 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin
"...while the Army goes through roughly 350 per officer..."

If they are really meaning Army officers, not including enlisted, the numbers are meaningless.

By the way, I visited two gun shops yesterday, both had plenty 5.56 available, at 60 cents per round. (and yes, I know that's more than what we paid back in the day...)
16 posted on 04/28/2013 9:55:07 AM PDT by frankenMonkey (A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud)
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To: frankenMonkey

Gander Mountain had 5.56 for $0.60/rd and .40s for $0.50/rd last week.

10 box aggregate limit on purchaes, though.

the y also greatly expanded their firearms section.

Over 2000 long guns, and 800 handguns.

Even a few dozen ARs that only lasted a day


17 posted on 04/28/2013 10:04:00 AM PDT by digger48
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To: Kaslin

Not at all. I merely note that those who would have willingly replaced said arrogant pos with a pos about .001 to the right are also the same ones who go about making posts to the effect that ‘there’s nothing unusual or wrong with these ammo purchases.’ Since I found them to have little credibility on the first issue (although I voted the GOP line anyway, that time) I accord them little credibility on this one.


18 posted on 04/28/2013 10:20:11 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Vaquero

Funny,
That has been on the rear window of my truck for 5 years now and so far no one has challenged me once.
(FUBO)


19 posted on 04/28/2013 11:01:39 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: Joe Boucher
Funny,
That has been on the rear window of my truck for 5 years now and so far no one has challenged me once.
(FUBO)

I only post my NRA and state NRA stickers on my 2012 explorer...
I would post more anti bambam type stickers, but zer0 lovers are generally cowards and I don't want to get my new wheels keyed.

20 posted on 04/28/2013 11:10:14 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight,, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Vaquero
This is what's on the back of my ride:

What Would Michael Collins Do?

21 posted on 04/28/2013 11:26:04 AM PDT by Noumenon (What would Michael Collins do?)
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To: Kaslin

Some government men are calm and levelheaded. Other government administrators and employees, in a hysterical panic, wanted to hoard and stock up on ammunition for when the “SHTF” happens in “TEOTWAWKI” and stop the waves of imaginary “zombies” from attacking them. They see in their minds, a conspiracy by jabbering Walter Mittys (and Mitty-ettes: a tiny minority of discussion board constituents, often aged, crippled, homebound, alone, etc.) against them.


22 posted on 04/28/2013 11:44:13 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Kaslin

In short and essence, rule by post-menopausal hysteria.


23 posted on 04/28/2013 11:45:33 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Noumenon

Michael Collins would know what “they” have for breakfast.


24 posted on 04/28/2013 12:06:20 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Noumenon

I dunno....orbit around and around while Neal and Buzz play with moon rocks?

Ohhhhhhhh! Michael Collins the Irish leader.

Never heard of him before today.

don’t know about back then, but today most of the IRA are a bunch of Marxist...


25 posted on 04/28/2013 12:08:25 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight,, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Vaquero

Modern IRA is the “Provisional IRA”, founded in 1969.


26 posted on 04/28/2013 12:12:05 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

are they the Marxists? the ones Congressman Pete King funded their weapons?


27 posted on 04/28/2013 12:46:55 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight,, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Vaquero

Don’t know about the Provisional IRA being Marxist; there was also an “Official IRA” (according to Wikipedia, anyway) that apparently had more Marxist leanings, though Mo Khadaffi was a fan of the Provos.

Have no idea about Pete King.


28 posted on 04/28/2013 12:57:49 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

***The government that would limit law-abiding citizens to some seven bullets to defend their families***

There is a way around that! Load 14 bullets in the magazine! If someone breaks in shoot them 7 times!

When the cops come there will be seven cases on the floor and seven still in the pistol!

Just say you shot your seven and reloaded with the legal limit real fast! ;-D


29 posted on 04/28/2013 1:24:05 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Do we now register our pressure cookers?)
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To: Kaslin

Kaslin, no disrespect of course, but this brat needs a good B@tch slapping just to get his attention. Several, maybe a beat down :) He’s never had one in his sorry life! He’s not man enough to speak to me much less be President of my Country. Complete incompetent bastard! Literally!


30 posted on 04/28/2013 1:24:57 PM PDT by poobear (Socialism in the minds of the elites, is a con-game for the serfs, nothing more.)
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To: Vaquero

The JUMBO lie that hollow points are being used for target practice is a bald face lie. EVERYONE who target practice shoots KNOWS you do not waste expensive hollow points for target shooting. You use bald ammo for that. This is the socialist government’s lie to cover up the buying.


31 posted on 04/28/2013 1:26:49 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (1 Cor 15: 50-54 & 1 Thess 4: 13-17. That about covers it.)
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To: RetiredArmy

The feds are rich enough to practice with the rounds you use for issue. Hell that is the only way to really do it if you can afford it. When ammo was cheaper that’s what I always did and it is best practice.


32 posted on 04/28/2013 1:37:56 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: Monty22002

The best ammo to practice with is your duty ammo. Now dad was NYPD and he shot a model 10 s&w in .38 special. NYC would not supply duty ammo for practice. They fired wad cutters that weighed 11 grains less than duty ammo, so accuracy would deteriorate at any distance.

I do not know what the Feds do. FMJ is international law for military use. But police forces like the FBI and Homeland Security are not so restricted.
As far as what zer0 wants to do with it and how much he is willing to spend during the sequester? I haven’t a clue. He probably will spare no expense in buying tea party ‘killer’ bullets


33 posted on 04/28/2013 1:55:01 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight,, he'll just kill you.)
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To: GenXteacher
Free Republic’s resident GOP-E shills said that its just normal government purchasing

"Shill" is now FR code from those that worship ignorance as "Intelligent person that actually knows what they are talking about but I don't like what they say."

The problem with that is that it is just normal government purchasing. The number of rounds that DHS has actually purchased has DROPPED each of the last two years from the previous year.

And anyone expressing shock that a LEO does more target practice than an Army officer is a complete moron. Keep in mind most Army officers are commanding a desk, or aren't in a combat specialty, etc. And your average army officer may be even LESS likely to fire a sidearm round for "real" than a Social Security agent or Coast Guardsman.

34 posted on 04/28/2013 2:36:06 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Vaquero

There are lessons to be had from a careful study of Irish history and modern Irish resistance. We don’t have to agree with all of it in order to learn from it.


35 posted on 04/28/2013 3:02:19 PM PDT by Noumenon (What would Michael Collins do?)
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To: Kaslin; Jim Robinson; All

Ok, if you go back and do a little digging...

The contract(s) are divided into 6, separated by calibers...The largest “contract” to deliver 450 million rounds over a 5 year period is the .40

The next major caliber “contract is for the .223, that is for 165 million rounds...

The other four contracts, “calibers”, round out the amount that is floating around their website (DHS)...

Combine that with range times, annual qualifications, and some practicing over a 5 year period, it fares out to a slightly higher than normal LEO proficiency squedule...

I was told that the number of shooters this purchase will support for a 5 year period will be 17,000...

Do the math anyway you see fit...I will not argue your findings...

But be aware, the deliveries of these ammunition lots will not be in one big swoop...It’ll come in smaller lots over the 5 year period...

My sources are three US congressmen, two of which are on the full DHS committee, and one is on the full Finance committee...I have an ICE agent who is on the DHS staff as a congressional advisor, who I have had very good conversations with over the last couple of months...

On the surface it is prudent to be skeptical of the purchase, and th elack of transparency of the DHS cabinet member...I still have my guard up, and would be surprised if we ever get them to publically admit to what their intent is...But be aware, the figures do add up, it does look a little excessive, but they got their money and are spending it, not expecting to be questioned about it...

And we are asking the right questions of the right people...When you stop believing what you see and hear on the internet, and in the news, and go to the effort to ask the right questions of the right people, and not in any way shape or form of accusation, or seeking some truth to some conspiracy, you might get a straight answer...

But then again, when you really get right down to it...You have to realize, they cannot match us if the intent is to somehow keep us loccked down...Sure, it may get rough, but the numbers are STILL on our side...

I just don’t see it goinjg that far, without us seeing it coming down the highway with full lights and sirens on...We’ll see it coming way before then...

BTW, the reports of MRAP’s 30+ is true...not 2700...

The 7000+ “personal defensive weapons” is still up for grabs...

And the sneeky one is the mobile “armored” checkpoint booths being purchased...

I’m still looking into that...It takes time to smooze the question, and get a good answer without sounding like a goob...

But hey...I too was caught up in the whole thing like a lot of people, so I said why can’t we get a straight answer from those that see the PO’s and budgets from these departments??? Right???


36 posted on 04/28/2013 4:39:57 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: Strategerist

Shill: to act as a spokesperson or promoter. No code necessary.


37 posted on 04/29/2013 3:01:00 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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