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Founders Quote - Mason on Senators
Patriot Post ^ | 1788 | George Mason

Posted on 05/01/2013 4:22:59 AM PDT by Loud Mime

"Those gentlemen, who will be elected senators, will fix themselves in the federal town, and become citizens of that town more than of your state."

--George Mason, speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, 1788


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 17th; 17thamendment; founders; georgemason; quotes

1 posted on 05/01/2013 4:22:59 AM PDT by Loud Mime
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To: Loud Mime

And so it has become....


2 posted on 05/01/2013 4:26:39 AM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Loud Mime; clee1
I prefer this warning from James Madison at the same convention. He responded to Patrick Henry’s charge that the Constitution’s enumerated powers would be usurped and our freedoms destroyed by a national government that would quickly seize all power.

Madison: “If the general government were wholly independent of the governments of the particular states, then, indeed, usurpation might be expected to the fullest extent. But, sir, on whom does this general government depend? It derives its authority from these governments, and from the same sources from which their authority is derived.”

Indeed. The 17th removed State agency from the federal republic. As predicted by Montesquieu, Federalists and Anti-Federalists alike, we slipped into an overwhelming, consolidated national government that oppresses both the States and us with raw force.

3 posted on 05/01/2013 4:44:44 AM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Loud Mime

I have often said that there be a constitutional amendment that fixes all congressmen/senators in their districts/states and prohibits them from entering the beltway except on very rare invitations, no more than once or twice a year and only for 2 days each time. similarly they should not be allowed travel out of their state except for their own personal vacation, and never paid for on the government’s(the people’s)dime.

sessions of both houses of Congress will be held via teleconference.


4 posted on 05/01/2013 4:59:54 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight,, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Jacquerie

You can always be counted on for a thoughtful contribution.


5 posted on 05/01/2013 5:07:08 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: A person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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To: Vaquero

I would like to see Congress in session for only two months out of the year. It would be far easier to enforce.


6 posted on 05/01/2013 5:11:21 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: A person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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To: Jacquerie

...And, those idiots, that wrote up the 17th did it in such a rush and without the influence of the law of unintended consequences, failed to note that Representatives had a two year term of office, NOT SIX, and on those grounds alone, the seventeenth should have failed ratification and we wouldn’t be faced with near impossible task of attempting to protect ourselves from a runaway federal government by and through state governments who are subject to lawsuit by the Government they gave the power to govern in the first place, and may I add:

The federal government does not have the power vested to sue those from whom it has received license. Eric Holder and the Justice Dept, and the President of the United States are engaging in Treason on even the contemplation of such action, and the States are in breach of their duty to “the People” in not withdrawing all power previously given to the federal government until such time as it restores the Republic as outlined in the founding documents to the limited and defined powers the Federal Government is entitled to.


7 posted on 05/01/2013 5:27:35 AM PDT by wita
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To: Jacquerie
The 17th removed State agency from the federal republic. As predicted by Montesquieu, Federalists and Anti-Federalists alike, we slipped into an overwhelming, consolidated national government that oppresses both the States and us with raw force.

For most of my life, I thought the 17th was a good idea. But a few FReepers' posts have lately precipitated my re-examination of my stance.

As I look around me at the people now in my neighborhood, in my precinct, my county and State, I can see plainly we are not the same people as we were in my youth. We do not select U.S. Senators very well now. I wonder if we did back then either.

Perhaps our Founders should have proscribed one six-year term only for each Senator. After their term expired, each could run again but only after sitting out a six-year period and remaining a full-time resident and not just property owner in the State they represented. Of course, the 17th cannot be changed peacefully now.
8 posted on 05/01/2013 5:30:43 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: wita

The 17th ammendment was that Socialist Bastard Wilson’s plan to gut the Republic and turn the USA into a “democracy” on the way to full socialism.


9 posted on 05/01/2013 5:43:01 AM PDT by Redleg Duke ("Madison, Wisconsin is 30 square miles surrounded by reality.", L. S. Dryfus)
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To: Redleg Duke
Our Founding Fathers set up the two houses of Congress to provide representation for the people and the states.

The 17th Amendment took away the states' representation in Federal Government and left them vulnerable to things such as unfunded mandates.

10 posted on 05/01/2013 5:45:51 AM PDT by Redleg Duke ("Madison, Wisconsin is 30 square miles surrounded by reality.", L. S. Dryfus)
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To: Loud Mime

George certainly got this one right, and it has become a lot worse since they became popularly elected.


11 posted on 05/01/2013 5:51:52 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: Loud Mime

This is definitely one of the biggest problems. Having these guys all together in Washington allows them to create clubs and cliques, collaborate, make deals etc. If they were forced to only meet a couple of times a year we wouldn’t have this mess. There would be less fraud and it would be harder for lobbyists to be effective.

In looking at states with good economies and conservative leaning governments, here are some things that appear to starve liberalism/progressivism and keep government small:

- Constitutional balanced budget law
- Legislatures meet sporadically
- Low state taxes overall (states can’t inflate currency so this works very well at keeping socialism at bay)


12 posted on 05/01/2013 5:55:19 AM PDT by bigtoona
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To: Rummyfan

bttt


13 posted on 05/01/2013 5:57:22 AM PDT by ConservativeMan55
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To: bigtoona

“In looking at states with good economies and conservative leaning governments, here are some things that appear to starve liberalism/progressivism and keep government small:

- Constitutional balanced budget law
- Legislatures meet sporadically
- Low state taxes overall (states can’t inflate currency so this works very well at keeping socialism at bay)”

You have discovered the real reason for why Texas is still Texas...

If you send a bunch of ‘Representatives’ to a Capitol year round, all they have to do is make laws and regulations and you end up with California,,,


14 posted on 05/01/2013 6:18:19 AM PDT by CenTex (November 6, 2012... A day that will live in infamy!!!)
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To: Loud Mime

Gracias. (A little Spanish lingo)


15 posted on 05/01/2013 9:45:41 AM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Loud Mime

bm


16 posted on 05/01/2013 9:50:37 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: wita
Yep, the only reason Reps do not have one year terms is the difficulty of 18th Century travel.

SIX YEAR TERMS?!!! . . . not a chance.

I would appreciate your comments on this earlier FR post:

The 17th Amendment, State Laws and the Independent Judiciary

17 posted on 05/01/2013 9:54:42 AM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Loud Mime
Reading a book on Madison and the fight for the bill of rights.

Some said that the Constitution needed no bill of rights because of the strictly limited and enumerated power of the Federal Government. Hamilton, for example, said that there was no need for there to be a 1st Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech and of the press because the Federal government had no power to restrict speech or the press.

A few years later the Alien and Sedition Act did exactly that.

It was struck down on the grounds that it violated the 1st Amendment.

How much different things might be if it were struck down on the premise that the Federal government didn't have the power to do it.

18 posted on 05/01/2013 9:57:37 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Resettozero

Throughout the writings of many founders you will see their disgust and emphatic warnings of governments of the popular character.

Madison’s Federalist Ten and George Washington’s Farewell Address spring immediately into mind, as well as Hamilton’s Federalist One.

There were several Federalist papers written on the necessity of the Senate being composed of a different character than the House. Now they are the same chambers, just with different rules.

The dangers of popular governments were even written about by Plato. It’s nothing new.


19 posted on 05/01/2013 9:58:46 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: A person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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To: allmendream

One of Hamilton’s claims from Federalist 84 hit the nail on the head when he wrote that the Bill of Rights would lead to people claiming more rights than were enumerated.

We see a LOT of that now. Hamilton was correct.

Perhaps each item in the first ten amendments should have been preceded by RIGHT or LIMITATION OF GOVERNMENT.


20 posted on 05/01/2013 10:08:33 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: A person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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To: Resettozero
Delegates to the Confederation Congress had three years on/three years off term limits. That the Framers rejected term limits was unfortunate.

The quality of State legislators would increase if they were responsible for the Senators they appointed. That's what the Lincoln/Douglas debates were about. State legislators had to be up and knowledgeable of national affairs. A dolt for State Assembly who could not intelligently discuss slavery, imposts as well as State issues didn't have a chance.

As for repeal, I'd appreciate your feedback to:

Repeal the 17th Amendment to Restore the 10th.

21 posted on 05/01/2013 10:11:11 AM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Loud Mime
Well there ARE a lot more rights than are enumerated. What there are NOT are more government powers than are enumerated.

Many who argued against a Bill of Rights claimed that many would say an enumeration of rights would give many the impression that American citizens had ONLY those enumerated rights. That is why they wrote the 9th Amendment....

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

22 posted on 05/01/2013 10:11:21 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Loud Mime

You and I may be two of the very few at FR without a hate-on for AH.


23 posted on 05/01/2013 10:19:27 AM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: allmendream

I must know, what is the title?


24 posted on 05/01/2013 10:22:08 AM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jacquerie

“James Madison and the struggle for the Bill of Rights” by Richard Labunski


25 posted on 05/01/2013 10:28:06 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream

Thanks. Its in my Amazon shopping cart.


26 posted on 05/01/2013 10:55:04 AM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jacquerie

I hope you enjoy it as much as I am enjoying it.


27 posted on 05/01/2013 11:13:42 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Jacquerie

I believe you are correct. I hear lots of people hating Hamilton, but firmly believe that the emotion is a result of limited studies.

We have to give credit where credit is due. Look at how the different views of the founders resulted in a wonderful government. Hamilton was dead-on right in some ideas, not in others. Hatred should find no quarter when all is considered.

Right now I’m reading about the strange actions of Madison, who seems to be above reproach.

Fascinating stuff; too bad we can’t manage what they gave us.


28 posted on 05/01/2013 11:19:46 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: A person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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To: Jacquerie

About your About page: I’m re-studying the third item from the top to see if I agree. The third item from the bottom, we agree if you change the comma to a period and strike the rest of the sentence. Every other point seems spot on.


29 posted on 05/01/2013 11:22:21 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero

Well, if the points I made were MLB hits, my batting average would be awesome.


30 posted on 05/01/2013 12:50:17 PM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jacquerie

Even for T-ball! But it’s ME and not someone who REALLY KNOWS that is agreeing with your points. THAT should humble you, Slugger.


31 posted on 05/01/2013 12:59:55 PM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Loud Mime
. . . too bad we can’t manage what they gave us.

Following are the words of David Robertson, the unofficial copyist of the Virginia Ratification Debates.

"Every speech breathes the spirit of a freeman, and should the following record descend to an enslaved posterity, every page will become a monument of the political purity of their fathers, and of their own disgraceful degeneracy. Should the footsteps of a tyrant hereafter contaminate the soil of our country, the Debates of the Virginia Convention will probably be among the earliest victims of a suspicious proscription."

32 posted on 05/01/2013 1:13:14 PM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Resettozero

Roger that. Duly humbled.


33 posted on 05/01/2013 1:19:43 PM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jacquerie

Okay. Alright then. WAIT...

(what did I say?)


34 posted on 05/01/2013 1:24:36 PM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Jacquerie

Wow. Great Quote!

It really does not take too much study to understand how the best governments can be perverted by man.

What amazes me is how today’s public keeps themselves in the dark.


35 posted on 05/01/2013 4:06:47 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: A person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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