Skip to comments.What Should States Do When the Federal Government Usurps Power?
Posted on 05/01/2013 7:59:50 PM PDT by EXCH54FE
1. What can a State or several States do to resist encroachments & usurpations by the federal government?
2. Federalist No. 46 (7th para) discusses how individual States or several States carry out resistance to the federal governments unconstitutional encroachments. If a particular State takes an action which the federal government doesnt like, but which has the support of the People of that State, the federal government cant do anything about it unless it is willing to use force.
So, in para 7, Madison contemplates that not all States will oppose unconstitutional encroachments by the federal government. But he shows that this need not impede the States who do. Such States need not implement in their States the federal governments lawless usurpations. Have we forgotten how to just say, NO! You have no authority under the Constitution to do this, and the Sovereign State of X and the Sovereign People of the State of X wont permit this. If we have taken the Oath to support the Constitution (Art. VI, clause 3), then we are bound by Honor to support it!
3. Note that Madison doesnt say the States should file lawsuits in federal court. And WHY would Sovereign States, which formed a federation for the limited purposes enumerated in Art. I, Sec. 8, U.S. Constitution; ask one branch of the federal government (judiciary) to opine on whether a law approved by the two other branches (legislative & executive) exceeds the enumerated powers of Congress or encroaches on the reserved powers of the States and the People (10th Amendment)?
(Excerpt) Read more at freedomoutpost.com ...
The last dance when we tested the 10th (and the 9th -- WHY DOES EVERYONE FORGET THE IDEAS OF "DISPARAGE!???")
rant off... :)
I ain’t goin’ for that.... I have a feeling you ain’t either.
Cestui Que Vie Trust
“...the federal government cant do anything about it unless it is willing to use force.”
A picture comes to mind - federal storm troopers marching through Watertown, Massachusetts invading private homes in utter defiance of the constitution, and having a grand old time doing it, too.
Supposedly searching for one little terrorist d*ck head who wasn’t even in town, but really just strutting and thrilled to be kicking *ss like the Big Boys in tridents and green berets.
A perfect example: some states, including my own South Carolina, have refused to set up the nobamacare health insurance and told the Feds to go stick it.
The state legislature here in SC is currently working towards nullification of nobamacare.
This is most certantly the path forward. With enough moral courage and determination we can resist this evil and force the usurpers to deal. But we must be careful to pick our battles to be sure that we choose popular ones. The support and sympathy of the people is our only weapon.
Our State leglsators can rouse them with such acts but they cannot by themselves bring victory. PICK GOOD ISSUES!
“”What Should States Do When the Federal Government Usurps Power?”
Not yet, that act is only taken when nullification and interposition fail to redress the grievance. Then we must decide if the number or nature of the usurpation justify forgoing the existing union. One day it may come to that but that day has not yet come.
Rest assure when & if that day does come we will require perhaps a decade or more to convince our people and the people of the north that this is best for us. Otherwise were looking at a bloody conflict with our imperial masters.
Exactly. Until states get over the idea that a federal court ruling in favor of the federal government somehow maintains legitimacy, federalism is doomed.
Hey, if at first you don’t secede...!
Freedom from tyranny seems like a darn good issue to begin with. States should start by witholding payment of federal income taxes collected from their citizens to pay for fed programs we had no say in and receive no benefit from.
I don’t want to bail out California and its unions. I don’t want to pay for New York and its nanny state and ITS unions. I don’t want to give a red cent to Chicago and Detroit. I don’t want to pay for obama’s vacations and his parties. I don’t want to pay janet napolitano’s or kathleen sebelius’s salaries. And so on and so on.
“encroachments & usurpations by the federal government”
Nurse Ratchet, free reign 2014.
A picture comes to mind - federal storm troopers marching through Watertown, Massachusetts invading private homes in utter defiance of the constitution, and having a grand old time doing it, too.”
They can do that to an unarmed populace like the people of Mass. I don’t see them trying that in a state that still observes the second amendment.
All the states have to do is say....you made the ruling, now enforce it.......and oy yeah, quit groveling for federal money.
Well that is going to provoke a strong response strong enough to crush the state and the movement. Washington cares far too much about our money to let such a thing pass.
So with their swift and violent response they would crush our movement in its infancy before it has a chance to establish firm legitimacy among our people.
No we need light and relatively small time actions for a decade or more producing positive results.
I have thought of this myself. Each state is a political community separate from the others, and to a degree independent of the central government. Its primary purpose is to serve the interests of that community. It should resist laws that threaten those interests just as each of the three branches of the central government rejects actions of other countries which threaten the interests of Americans as a whole.
Filing lawsuits in Federal Court is exactly the WRONG thing to do.
Federal Courts deal with the people and places “SUBJECT TO IT’S (the UNITED STATES) JURISDICTION.
Federal civil rights (privileges and immunities) are DIFFERENT from the civil rights you get as a citizen in a state.
I wish every person in this country would read the Slaughterhouse cases and understand them.
Ask anyone... ANYone, even your supposedly well-informed O’Reilly Republican, and they will tell you that Lincoln already solved the legalities of this issue and established the National government’s authority.
Then ask them: how? By force.
Lincoln deserves respect for leading the drive to emancipation. But he never had a chance to restore states’ rights, and apparently never intended to.
Unfortunately, Madison wrote this long before the federal government controlled 25% of the country's economy. the federal government already uses force to extract this economic power from it's citizens - through the force of the IRS. It now can simply threaten to withhold some of this money from the state, and this usually will assure compliance to its wishes.
Actually, there are a great many owners of firearms in Massachusetts and a very active owners’ association in the Gun Owners’ Action League, or GOAL.
And, yes, they would ‘try that’ in any and every state in the nation - almost certainly without any interference except a great wind from those who like to talk.
- almost certainly without any interference except a great wind from those who like to talk.”
Well, perhaps it is just bluster. Hard to say what would actually happen. I like to think I would not permit such a violation without a fight.
We’d all like to think we’d stand up for truth, justice and the American way.
However, we’re vulnerable to a lot more than kryptonite, and, when push comes to shove, life begins to seem very precious.
Not everyone is cut out to be a hero; far from it, in fact, which is why we revere our heroes - they’re very, very rare.
“They can do that to an unarmed populace like the people of Mass. I dont see them trying that in a state that still observes the second amendment.”
If baystaters still had second amendments rights they wouldn’t have been locked up in their homes like chickens in a chicken coop. They could have been out searching for the SOB terrorist.
We got some good ideas in the legislators of Florida and a number of other states about how we could hijack that income stream and escrow it.
If we start slowly enough and get some congressmen on our side we can slowly move Washington into a position of accepting this. If we solidify this process by way of Constitutional amendment we can reverse the flow of power back to the people.
I hope this would start waking up people in the clueless states such as mine — Massachusetts.
It took a very long time to get most of the power concentrated in Washington and it will probably take a while to get that power redistributed to the states.
“I hope this would start waking up people in the clueless states such as mine Massachusetts.”
Somehow I don’t think Massachusetts is going to wake up until a southern army of patriots is at their door step. A day I hope never comes.
What will force Massachusetts to reform is the economic reality of socialism bring depravity and rune to the people that live there. That of course could take as much as 100 years of stagnation & decline.
So in the grand scheme of things I am inclined to leave Massachusetts to it’s own devices and advice you my patriot friend to think about uprooting.
“It took a very long time to get most of the power concentrated in Washington and it will probably take a while to get that power redistributed to the states.”
Actually when you look at history time is on the side of the centerlized power, things tend to go back to the people only in revolution or collapse(by default).
If we wish to reclaim our rights from Washington we will have to take them ourselves(effecting collapse of Washington’s practical power over the issue) and then force Washington to recognize the reality.
This is the propose behind the nullification and eventually interposition strategy. It is our hope to deadlock Washington while our State’s go on the attack.
things tend to go back to the people only in revolution or collapse(by default).
“I will disagree with you a little, it is not or. They usually come together. I will cite the demise of the USSR as an example. Many satellite countries were ignoring the demands of the centralized USSR before the collapse came.”
I don’t dispute that it could be an and/or situation. The point is reclamation of rights tends not to happen within a political system.
My suggestion in strategy was in fact anther permutation where people ignore & resist the illegitimate acts of the central authority while fighting politically to get that authority to recognize what is already largely the case.
There are many successful examples of this kind of reclamation in American history ranging from the obbtition to the national bank in the early 1800’s to the on going “medical pot” fight. The tools of this process is called nullification and rarely(when circumstances demand and permit) interposition.
This is a brilliant strategy invented by our founding fathers in response to the then supposed(and shortly thereafter realized) senereo of the Federal Reverent(and its hand picked employees in black robes) usurping powers from the people and their states.
But this strategy takes time and precistants to implement.