Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

What Should States Do When the Federal Government Usurps Power?
Freedom Outpost ^ | May 1, 2013 | Publius Huldah

Posted on 05/01/2013 7:59:50 PM PDT by EXCH54FE

1. What can a State – or several States – do to resist encroachments & usurpations by the federal government?

2. Federalist No. 46 (7th para) discusses how individual States or several States carry out resistance to the federal government’s unconstitutional encroachments. If a particular State takes an action which the federal government doesn’t like, but which has the support of the People of that State, the federal government can’t do anything about it unless it is willing to use force.

So, in para 7, Madison contemplates that not all States will oppose unconstitutional encroachments by the federal government. But he shows that this need not impede the States who do. Such States need not implement in their States the federal government’s lawless usurpations. Have we forgotten how to just say, “NO! You have no authority under the Constitution to do this, and the Sovereign State of X and the Sovereign People of the State of X won’t permit this.” If we have taken the Oath to support the Constitution (Art. VI, clause 3), then we are bound by Honor to support it!

3. Note that Madison doesn’t say the States should file lawsuits in federal court. And WHY would Sovereign States, which formed a federation for the limited purposes enumerated in Art. I, Sec. 8, U.S. Constitution; ask one branch of the federal government (judiciary) to opine on whether a “law” approved by the two other branches (legislative & executive) exceeds the enumerated powers of Congress or encroaches on the reserved powers of the States and the People (10th Amendment)?

(Excerpt) Read more at freedomoutpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 10thamendment; donttreadonme; fedgovtoutofcontrol; govtabuse; states; statesrights; tyranny; waronliberty
States act lawfully when they follow such guidance of James Madison. When the federal government descends into lawlessness & tyranny, The States and The People may protect and preserve their Constitution – as they are already sworn to do.
1 posted on 05/01/2013 7:59:50 PM PDT by EXCH54FE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
I expect we'll all discover the limits the hard way.


2 posted on 05/01/2013 8:07:00 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
When the federal government descends into lawlessness & tyranny

The last dance when we tested the 10th (and the 9th -- WHY DOES EVERYONE FORGET THE IDEAS OF "DISPARAGE!???")

rant off... :)

3 posted on 05/01/2013 8:09:24 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (LBJ declared war on poverty and lost. Barack Obama declared war on prosperity and won. /csmusaret)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

I ain’t goin’ for that.... I have a feeling you ain’t either.


4 posted on 05/01/2013 8:10:27 PM PDT by Bullish (May the time soon come when Obamunism is only spoken of in hell.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
To answer the question in the headline.... "Take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure"

/johnny

5 posted on 05/01/2013 8:14:08 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Cestui Que Vie Trust


6 posted on 05/01/2013 8:16:56 PM PDT by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
What Should States Do When the Federal Government Usurps Power?

Secede!!!

7 posted on 05/01/2013 8:21:43 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for anti-American criminals!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE

“...the federal government can’t do anything about it unless it is willing to use force.”

A picture comes to mind - federal storm troopers marching through Watertown, Massachusetts invading private homes in utter defiance of the constitution, and having a grand old time doing it, too.

Supposedly searching for one little terrorist d*ck head who wasn’t even in town, but really just strutting and thrilled to be kicking *ss like the Big Boys in tridents and green berets.


8 posted on 05/01/2013 8:23:22 PM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
In this day and age, I can not rely on the states to say to the feds off;. Therefore, it is down to we the people to do it. This means at a local, than regional, than up to the state level. We have a precedence of this. (Declaration of Independance)However, it is different this time. We will have to fight small before big.
9 posted on 05/01/2013 8:24:25 PM PDT by bayoublazer (Conservative, by reasons of higher cognitive skills)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE

A perfect example: some states, including my own South Carolina, have refused to set up the nobamacare health insurance and told the Feds to go stick it.

The state legislature here in SC is currently working towards nullification of nobamacare.


10 posted on 05/01/2013 8:45:45 PM PDT by upchuck (To the faceless, jack-booted government bureaucrat who just scanned this post: SCREW YOU!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE

This is most certantly the path forward. With enough moral courage and determination we can resist this evil and force the usurpers to deal. But we must be careful to pick our battles to be sure that we choose popular ones. The support and sympathy of the people is our only weapon.

Our State leglsators can rouse them with such acts but they cannot by themselves bring victory. PICK GOOD ISSUES!


11 posted on 05/01/2013 8:48:37 PM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DustyMoment

“”What Should States Do When the Federal Government Usurps Power?”

Secede!!!”

Not yet, that act is only taken when nullification and interposition fail to redress the grievance. Then we must decide if the number or nature of the usurpation justify forgoing the existing union. One day it may come to that but that day has not yet come.

Rest assure when & if that day does come we will require perhaps a decade or more to convince our people and the people of the north that this is best for us. Otherwise were looking at a bloody conflict with our imperial masters.


12 posted on 05/01/2013 8:56:46 PM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
3. Note that Madison doesn’t say the States should file lawsuits in federal court. And WHY would Sovereign States, which formed a federation for the limited purposes enumerated in Art. I, Sec. 8, U.S. Constitution; ask one branch of the federal government (judiciary) to opine on whether a “law” approved by the two other branches (legislative & executive) exceeds the enumerated powers of Congress or encroaches on the reserved powers of the States and the People (10th Amendment)?

Exactly. Until states get over the idea that a federal court ruling in favor of the federal government somehow maintains legitimacy, federalism is doomed.

13 posted on 05/01/2013 8:59:49 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DustyMoment

Hey, if at first you don’t secede...!


14 posted on 05/01/2013 9:00:48 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE; ForGod'sSake

10A Ping!


15 posted on 05/01/2013 9:07:57 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Monorprise

Freedom from tyranny seems like a darn good issue to begin with. States should start by witholding payment of federal income taxes collected from their citizens to pay for fed programs we had no say in and receive no benefit from.

I don’t want to bail out California and its unions. I don’t want to pay for New York and its nanny state and ITS unions. I don’t want to give a red cent to Chicago and Detroit. I don’t want to pay for obama’s vacations and his parties. I don’t want to pay janet napolitano’s or kathleen sebelius’s salaries. And so on and so on.


16 posted on 05/01/2013 9:10:56 PM PDT by MestaMachine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE

“encroachments & usurpations by the federal government”

Nurse Ratchet, free reign 2014.

RatchetCare.


17 posted on 05/01/2013 9:13:43 PM PDT by Varsity Flight (Extortion-Care is the Government Work-Camp: Arbeitsziehungslager)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hammer

A picture comes to mind - federal storm troopers marching through Watertown, Massachusetts invading private homes in utter defiance of the constitution, and having a grand old time doing it, too.”

They can do that to an unarmed populace like the people of Mass. I don’t see them trying that in a state that still observes the second amendment.


18 posted on 05/01/2013 9:16:08 PM PDT by bk1000 (A clear conscience is a sure sign of a poor memory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Still Thinking

All the states have to do is say....you made the ruling, now enforce it.......and oy yeah, quit groveling for federal money.


19 posted on 05/01/2013 10:05:45 PM PDT by sheana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: MestaMachine

Well that is going to provoke a strong response strong enough to crush the state and the movement. Washington cares far too much about our money to let such a thing pass.

So with their swift and violent response they would crush our movement in its infancy before it has a chance to establish firm legitimacy among our people.

No we need light and relatively small time actions for a decade or more producing positive results.


20 posted on 05/01/2013 10:26:01 PM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE

I have thought of this myself. Each state is a political community separate from the others, and to a degree independent of the central government. Its primary purpose is to serve the interests of that community. It should resist laws that threaten those interests just as each of the three branches of the central government rejects actions of other countries which threaten the interests of Americans as a whole.


21 posted on 05/01/2013 10:27:25 PM PDT by RobbyS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
1. What can a State – or several States – do to resist encroachments & usurpations by the federal government?

  1. Refuse Federal money.
  2. Close Federal offices and force sale of the buildings.
  3. Authorize County Sheriffs to seize unconstitutional Federal lands.
  4. Sell mineral and development rights, especially to businesses seeking to restore dying forests and rangeland to functional habitat.
  5. Auction contracts for restoration of fish, game, and other wildlife.
  6. Facilitate wildland farming of native herbs and food sources (this will greatly reduce allergies).
  7. Show any lawyer representing Earth Justice, the Center for Biodiversity, or such what the inside of a jail cell looks like. Start immediate investigation of the tax-exempt foundations that support them for fraud, racketeering, and tax-evasion.
Well, I can dream can't I?
22 posted on 05/01/2013 11:06:17 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (An economy is not a zero-sum game, but politics usually is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE

Filing lawsuits in Federal Court is exactly the WRONG thing to do.

Federal Courts deal with the people and places “SUBJECT TO IT’S (the UNITED STATES) JURISDICTION.

Federal civil rights (privileges and immunities) are DIFFERENT from the civil rights you get as a citizen in a state.

I wish every person in this country would read the Slaughterhouse cases and understand them.


23 posted on 05/02/2013 12:08:57 AM PDT by djf (Rich widows: My Bitcoin address is... 1ETDmR4GDjwmc9rUEQnfB1gAnk6WLmd3n6)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE

Ask anyone... ANYone, even your supposedly well-informed O’Reilly Republican, and they will tell you that Lincoln already solved the legalities of this issue and established the National government’s authority.

Then ask them: how? By force.

Lincoln deserves respect for leading the drive to emancipation. But he never had a chance to restore states’ rights, and apparently never intended to.


24 posted on 05/02/2013 2:40:23 AM PDT by ReaganGeneration2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EXCH54FE
“...the federal government can’t do anything about it unless it is willing to use force.”

Unfortunately, Madison wrote this long before the federal government controlled 25% of the country's economy. the federal government already uses force to extract this economic power from it's citizens - through the force of the IRS. It now can simply threaten to withhold some of this money from the state, and this usually will assure compliance to its wishes.

25 posted on 05/02/2013 4:11:52 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bk1000

Actually, there are a great many owners of firearms in Massachusetts and a very active owners’ association in the Gun Owners’ Action League, or GOAL.

And, yes, they would ‘try that’ in any and every state in the nation - almost certainly without any interference except a great wind from those who like to talk.


26 posted on 05/02/2013 5:16:05 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hammer

- almost certainly without any interference except a great wind from those who like to talk.”

Well, perhaps it is just bluster. Hard to say what would actually happen. I like to think I would not permit such a violation without a fight.


27 posted on 05/02/2013 6:25:53 AM PDT by bk1000 (A clear conscience is a sure sign of a poor memory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: bk1000

We’d all like to think we’d stand up for truth, justice and the American way.

However, we’re vulnerable to a lot more than kryptonite, and, when push comes to shove, life begins to seem very precious.

Not everyone is cut out to be a hero; far from it, in fact, which is why we revere our heroes - they’re very, very rare.


28 posted on 05/02/2013 6:29:03 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: bk1000

“They can do that to an unarmed populace like the people of Mass. I don’t see them trying that in a state that still observes the second amendment.”

If baystaters still had second amendments rights they wouldn’t have been locked up in their homes like chickens in a chicken coop. They could have been out searching for the SOB terrorist.


29 posted on 05/02/2013 10:16:43 AM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: norwaypinesavage

We got some good ideas in the legislators of Florida and a number of other states about how we could hijack that income stream and escrow it.

If we start slowly enough and get some congressmen on our side we can slowly move Washington into a position of accepting this. If we solidify this process by way of Constitutional amendment we can reverse the flow of power back to the people.


30 posted on 05/02/2013 11:02:06 AM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Monorprise

I hope this would start waking up people in the clueless states such as mine — Massachusetts.


31 posted on 05/02/2013 7:44:29 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Monorprise

It took a very long time to get most of the power concentrated in Washington and it will probably take a while to get that power redistributed to the states.


32 posted on 05/02/2013 7:48:13 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: cradle of freedom

“I hope this would start waking up people in the clueless states such as mine — Massachusetts.”

Somehow I don’t think Massachusetts is going to wake up until a southern army of patriots is at their door step. A day I hope never comes.

What will force Massachusetts to reform is the economic reality of socialism bring depravity and rune to the people that live there. That of course could take as much as 100 years of stagnation & decline.

So in the grand scheme of things I am inclined to leave Massachusetts to it’s own devices and advice you my patriot friend to think about uprooting.


33 posted on 05/03/2013 4:09:12 PM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: cradle of freedom

“It took a very long time to get most of the power concentrated in Washington and it will probably take a while to get that power redistributed to the states.”

Actually when you look at history time is on the side of the centerlized power, things tend to go back to the people only in revolution or collapse(by default).

If we wish to reclaim our rights from Washington we will have to take them ourselves(effecting collapse of Washington’s practical power over the issue) and then force Washington to recognize the reality.

This is the propose behind the nullification and eventually interposition strategy. It is our hope to deadlock Washington while our State’s go on the attack.


34 posted on 05/03/2013 4:12:48 PM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Monorprise

things tend to go back to the people only in revolution or collapse(by default).


I will disagree with you a little, it is not “or”. They usually come together. I will cite the demise of the USSR as an example. Many satellite countries were ignoring the demands of the centralized USSR before the collapse came.


35 posted on 05/03/2013 4:17:39 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: PeterPrinciple

“I will disagree with you a little, it is not “or”. They usually come together. I will cite the demise of the USSR as an example. Many satellite countries were ignoring the demands of the centralized USSR before the collapse came.”

I don’t dispute that it could be an and/or situation. The point is reclamation of rights tends not to happen within a political system.

My suggestion in strategy was in fact anther permutation where people ignore & resist the illegitimate acts of the central authority while fighting politically to get that authority to recognize what is already largely the case.

There are many successful examples of this kind of reclamation in American history ranging from the obbtition to the national bank in the early 1800’s to the on going “medical pot” fight. The tools of this process is called nullification and rarely(when circumstances demand and permit) interposition.

This is a brilliant strategy invented by our founding fathers in response to the then supposed(and shortly thereafter realized) senereo of the Federal Reverent(and its hand picked employees in black robes) usurping powers from the people and their states.

But this strategy takes time and precistants to implement.


36 posted on 05/03/2013 5:45:50 PM PDT by Monorprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson