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Arizona Governor vetoes gold and silver legal tender bill
MineWeb ^ | May 3, 2013 | Dorothy Kosich

Posted on 05/03/2013 8:37:18 AM PDT by bkopto

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer Thursday vetoed Senate Bill 1439 which would have made Arizona the second U.S. state to recognize gold and silver as legal tender.

In a letter to Arizona State Senate President Andy Biggs, Brewer said, “While I believe the concern over a devalued dollar as a result of an unsustainable federal deficit is justified, I am unable to support this legislation.”

“I believe the provisions in this legislation need to be more carefully examined and there should be prior coordination with those government agencies tasked with the oversight of these transactions,” she stressed.

See also: Navigating gold, silver legal tender isn’t for the faint of heart

“For example, it is unclear whether this legislation would require Arizona to exempt income tax related to a transaction involving collectable coins or bills that were originally authorized by Congress and may be used as legal tender,” Brewer said. “This would result in lost revenues to the state, while giving businesses that buy and sell collectible coins or currency originally authorized by Congress an unfair tax advantage.”

State Senator Chester Crandell, the bill’s sponsor, said the ability to use gold and silver is still a work in progress and that more legislation would be needed before it could be viable.

The Arizona Legislature could chose to over-ride the governor’s veto of SB 1439. However, a 2/3 vote is required by each chamber—House and Senate—to over-ride her veto. However, the Republican controlled Senate only approved the measure by an 18-10 vote.

The governor’s veto means that Utah remains the only U.S. state which has approved gold and silver as legal tender. However, similar bills are advancing in several states.


TOPICS: Extended News; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: arizonagold; dollar; gold; inflation; legaltender; monetarycollapse; silver
Brewer has been McCained.
1 posted on 05/03/2013 8:37:18 AM PDT by bkopto
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To: bkopto

I don’t know. I’m not ready to condemn right now. I’m still dealing with the very sneaking suspicion that we, these United States and the rest of the gold and silver investors, actually have a stakehold in REAL gold and silver that actually EXISTS.


2 posted on 05/03/2013 8:44:04 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: bkopto

Brewer ALWAYS has been a BIG-Talkin JOKE!


3 posted on 05/03/2013 8:45:56 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: bkopto
Brewer has been McCained.

I don't think so. I think she's not willing to sign off on a half-assed, poorly thought-out piece of legislation that could have all sorts of unforseen ramifications. Go back and do it properly and I have no doubt she would sign it.

4 posted on 05/03/2013 8:47:28 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: bkopto
hmmmm. I'll readily admit that I know little about this. Do you know anything more about it?

From the limited info in the article, it sounds like Brewer said, "I'm not saying 'no'. I'm just saying 'no' to the bill as it's written. Go back and try again."

If it's crafted so that AZ will be at a disadvantage to other states, then she was probably correct to veto it, good idea or not.

5 posted on 05/03/2013 8:47:48 AM PDT by wbill
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To: bkopto

Bad move

Brewer is good on National and Border Security.... but was Obama Supporter on the Eligibility issue....and now too close to the current failed economic system


6 posted on 05/03/2013 8:47:59 AM PDT by SeminoleCounty (GOP - Greenlighting Obama's Programs)
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To: 0.E.O

See my post #5. GMTA


7 posted on 05/03/2013 8:48:33 AM PDT by wbill
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To: SeminoleCounty

She is not to be trusted. I live here. No one trusts here around here.

That said, all the red states need to do this as a one shot. One state here and there just gives the media time to gin up propaganda and Obama to issue his edicts...which the GOP in turns plays around over instead of hammering the bastard on his impeachable actions.


8 posted on 05/03/2013 8:51:28 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: bkopto

States can’t mint money anyway.


9 posted on 05/03/2013 8:59:09 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: bkopto

I think Obama got to Brewer before the bill did.


10 posted on 05/03/2013 9:07:08 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Blog: www.BackwoodsEngineer.com)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Minting ain’t what this is about. It’s about recognizing gold and silver as money. Go back and read the Constitution; the States shall recognize nothing but gold and silver as money. It’s already in there, but like everything else, they’ve papered over the Constitution with laws (Federal Reserve Act), and this is an attempt to reverse that.


11 posted on 05/03/2013 9:09:16 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Blog: www.BackwoodsEngineer.com)
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To: 0.E.O

hmmm....I think that us mint gold and silver eagles are legal tender ( gold eagle has a $50 face value and the silver eagle $1) Perhaps this legislation would allow gold and silver to be used as currency based upon the spot price of gold.

Of course anyone would be crazy to use a gold or silver eagle at face value for a purchase, and I doubt many of the public school educated retail workers would even recognize an actual gold or silver eagle should they be presented with one.
Which raises the point how could retailers be sure that the gold and silver they were being offered was the real deal not convincing knock offs from ebay.


12 posted on 05/03/2013 9:10:37 AM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: longfellowsmuse
hmmm....I think that us mint gold and silver eagles are legal tender ( gold eagle has a $50 face value and the silver eagle $1) Perhaps this legislation would allow gold and silver to be used as currency based upon the spot price of gold.

In the last month or two alone gold has gone over $1600 and ounce before dropping under $1400 an ounce and it's currently about $1460. So then how do I as a merchant price my goods when the value of the commodity used to pay for it fluctuates by the minute?

13 posted on 05/03/2013 9:25:40 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: backwoods-engineer

Or currency backed by gold and silver...which was a slick way to get around gold and silver currency.

Funny thing, those who think US Grant was a real bastard dont read what he did concerning legal tender. Or Andrew Jackson for that matter. Or, several other presidents who declared a national bank unconstitutional, which is the real culprit in these matters.


14 posted on 05/03/2013 9:31:56 AM PDT by crz
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To: 0.E.O

Congress is supposed to set the value. Which raises another point, who the hell wants congress to do anything these days?


15 posted on 05/03/2013 9:33:05 AM PDT by crz
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To: crz
Congress is supposed to set the value. Which raises another point, who the hell wants congress to do anything these days?

How can Congress do that when the value is set by the commodities market in New York, Chicago, and around the world?

16 posted on 05/03/2013 9:38:35 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: 0.E.O
So then how do I as a merchant price my goods when the value of the commodity used to pay for it fluctuates by the minute?

You could price it in gold weight, understanding that the height of the stack of Federal Reserve paper meant to be an equivalent will vary day by day.

For example, a pair of Nike Air Jordan shoes costs 1/10 ounce of gold. Customers can either give you a 1/10 ounce gold coin, or use an exchange machine at the counter to figure our how high a stack of paper is required that day.

By the time a Zimbabwe-style trillion dollar note is required to pay for the Air Jordans (probably around May, 2018) you'll be glad your customers are already used to gold weight pricing. :)

17 posted on 05/03/2013 9:40:08 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: bkopto
This bill does nothing except exempt coin dealers from sales taxes.

That may be a good policy or a bad policy, but don't pretend this bill would have done anything but that. As for the merits, I think this fails. Economists will tell you that sales tax exemptions distort the economy and that the best system of taxation is broad but low tax.

18 posted on 05/03/2013 9:47:12 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: 0.E.O

Read your constitution for gods sake.


19 posted on 05/03/2013 9:49:51 AM PDT by crz
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To: 0.E.O
In the last month or two alone gold has gone over $1600 and ounce before dropping under $1400 an ounce and it's currently about $1460. So then how do I as a merchant price my goods when the value of the commodity used to pay for it fluctuates by the minute?

You wouldn't and this bill wouldn't force you to either. However if you wanted to exchange a commodity for gold, you can do so in any jurisdiction today without enabling legislation.

So what does this bill do? Nothing. Except exempt gold and silver coin dealers from state sales tax. Which is a weird thing to do.

20 posted on 05/03/2013 9:49:58 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
For example, a pair of Nike Air Jordan shoes costs 1/10 ounce of gold. Customers can either give you a 1/10 ounce gold coin, or use an exchange machine at the counter to figure our how high a stack of paper is required that day.

But again, if the value of that 1/10th ounce gold coin could be $160 when I pick out my Air Jordans and drops to $155 by the time I get to the sales counter only to rocket up to $165 by the time I get to my car then have I gotten a good deal or have I been screwed in my purchase?

21 posted on 05/03/2013 9:50:08 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: crz
Read your constitution for gods sake.

I have. What part are you referring to?

22 posted on 05/03/2013 9:55:35 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: 0.E.O

Gold didn’t change - the value of the Federal Reserve paper did. The guy who pays with dollars may or may not have gotten screwed today by his own government’s floppy fiat currency - the guy who pays with gold is going to get pretty much the same value for his gold regardless of what day or time he makes his purchase.


23 posted on 05/03/2013 9:58:53 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: 0.E.O

Read it again. Enumerated powers.


24 posted on 05/03/2013 10:03:21 AM PDT by crz
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To: 0.E.O

Here, I will help you out. It is under article 1 section 8-the enumerated powers.


25 posted on 05/03/2013 10:05:12 AM PDT by crz
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To: 0.E.O

Then read section 10.


26 posted on 05/03/2013 10:07:02 AM PDT by crz
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To: crz
Here, I will help you out. It is under article 1 section 8-the enumerated powers.

Then it gets back to how do you 'regulate the value thereof' when the substance your coin is made of varies in value from moment to moment? What's your answer for that?

27 posted on 05/03/2013 10:10:20 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: bkopto

As a merchant I’ll take your gold but I’m going to convert the USD price of the item to gold 10% below the spot price to cover the volatility of the metal and so that I don’t have to deal with converting back to USD continuously.


28 posted on 05/03/2013 10:23:06 AM PDT by culpeper (I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny... TJ)
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To: 0.E.O

Congress sets the value. But, who the hell wants these past congresses doing anything?

I mean is that so hard to understand? Congress is to set the value. Not the federal reserve.


29 posted on 05/03/2013 10:25:25 AM PDT by crz
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To: 0.E.O

Here since I do not believe you read it.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


30 posted on 05/03/2013 10:27:21 AM PDT by crz
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To: 0.E.O

Then comes section 10.
Section 10

1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.


31 posted on 05/03/2013 10:29:16 AM PDT by crz
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To: Alter Kaker
So what does this bill do? Nothing. Except exempt gold and silver coin dealers from state sales tax. Which is a weird thing to do.

In the informed opinion of many, and as treated in the Constituion, gold is money, a sure store of wealth; gold is not a commodity.

Removing the tax from gold formally re-elevates gold to money status, its role throughout recorded history (that is, until the emergence of the western social welfare states in the early 20th century).

Gold is not a "barbarous relic", as Keynes said, nor is it a commodity, as Bernanke says.

32 posted on 05/03/2013 10:35:31 AM PDT by bkopto (Obama and Biden are merely symptoms of a more profound, systemic disease in American body politic.)
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To: Norm Lenhart

I was quite ticked off when she vetoed the “proof of eligibility” law AZ passed. The law never specified Obama directly... but she vetoed it anyway.

To slap down such a law is just being an Obama Supporter...and not taking the Eligibility issue seriously cost way more GOP votes than not getting Hispanic votes because of not supporting Illegal Alien Amnesty


33 posted on 05/03/2013 10:37:57 AM PDT by SeminoleCounty (GOP - Greenlighting Obama's Programs)
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To: bkopto

Anyone with a lick of sense knows that gold and silver are currency regardless of the law.


34 posted on 05/03/2013 11:07:07 AM PDT by MeganC (You can take my gun when you can grab it with your cold, dead fingers.)
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To: bkopto

Bad move, Brewer.


35 posted on 05/03/2013 11:08:00 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: crz
I mean is that so hard to understand? Congress is to set the value. Not the federal reserve.

How does Congress set the value of gold?

36 posted on 05/03/2013 11:32:48 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: crz

You aren’t making a whole lot of sense. So are you saying this is an idiotic bill because Arizona cannot coin money? Or a brilliant bill since Arizona is supposed to be accepting only gold or silver?


37 posted on 05/03/2013 11:34:35 AM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: 0.E.O

They did not write it properly as I understand.

It would take a whole year to explain and a whole lot of reading of the founders intent. The basic is that since the states formed the federal government, nothing but gold and silver is legal tender-or currency backed by it. No state means no state, and, since the states are a union, the federal government being made up of the union, the federal government has to make regular the value so we dont have 50 different values of currency. Which actually happened in the past.


38 posted on 05/03/2013 12:09:54 PM PDT by crz
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To: 0.E.O

I cant do much more for you than this. You have to do your own research. Sorry.

State Currency and the First Paper Money

*

From the passage of the Mint Act in 1792 through the start of the Civil War in 1861, federal currency was issued only in the form of coins, which were redeemable for silver. During this time, there was little to no regulation of state-produced currency. As a result, over 1,600 banks in various states were printing their own forms of currency. By 1861, over 7,000 different types of currency were being used in the U.S. This not only led to confusion but also caused devaluation and inflation-like effects. In July 1861, Congress passed an act authorizing the U.S. mint to print paper currency, called “greenbacks.” By 1863, the National Bank Act was passed and changed the name of the U.S. paper currency to “legal tender.” At the same time, this act put regulations in place that limited the ability of the states to print money with abandon. Upon the passage of this act, states could still print money, but they were standardized as “national bank notes” and could only be printed on paper provided by the federal government.

The Gold Standard and the Great Depression

*

On March 4, 1900, Congress passed the Gold Standard Act, which tied the value of U.S. currency to gold. By the end of World War I, the U.S. was the only country that had successfully maintained the gold standard for its currency. While this was considered a success at the time, the years of the Great Depression had a severe impact on the gold standard in the U.S. To keep gold ratios to the dollar at appropriate levels, Congress continually raised interest rates throughout the 1930s. This, coupled with citizens’ tendencies to hoard gold during this period, forced the U.S. off the gold standard for the first time in three decades. By the end of the Great Depression and the start of WWII, the U.S. was back on the gold standard. During this time, most major world currencies were tied to the U.S. dollar, making the gold standard the effective system for most of the world.


39 posted on 05/03/2013 12:15:42 PM PDT by crz
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To: All

I bet it has more to do with her lacking Jackson’s balls when reminded of Kennedy’s $5 red ink Treasury Bills and murder than it does about how it might affect her state.


40 posted on 05/03/2013 12:30:15 PM PDT by RHS Jr (Pity the banksters when Jesus comes)
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To: 0.E.O

That’s a valid concern, but it has been addressed (somehow) by the Bitcoin community, which has seen that currency swing in amounts that dwarf even the recent six-sigma moves in gold.


41 posted on 05/03/2013 8:24:22 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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