Skip to comments.Will America Collapse Like the Roman Empire?
Posted on 05/03/2013 8:46:31 AM PDT by pinochet
Some philosophers have promoted the idea that it is impossible for human beings to invent new sins. Any "new" sin that may seem shocking to you, is a sin that was practiced in ancient civilizations that have gone before us. In order for a nation or civilization to be strong, families must be strong. When families die, civilizations die along with them. I refer you to this quote from this website http://constitutionschool.com/2012/09/27/first-time-ever-majority-of-american-households-unmarried/
"For the first time, households made up of married couples with and without children dropped below 50 percent of all households, Jacobsen noted. At the peak in 1960, married couples represented 75 percent of all households."
The first great civilization to collapse was Babylon. When Babylon was at its strongest, the empire was known for strong morals and strong families, as reflected in the Code of Hammurabi, which dates to 1772 BC. Centuries later, family bonds collapsed, and Babylon became famous for sexual orgies and gay relationships. The Roman Republic and Empire passed through the same phase, starting as a strong pro-family civilization, and ending up as an empire of sexual orgies that had openly gay emperors like Caligula and Nero.
Now it is America's turn. It is too bad that America may not last over 1000 years like the Babylonian or Roman Empires.
The question isn’t a matter of “if”, but “when”.
Counting on it! (Although I do not look forward to it)
Gay marriage, 1 million abortions/year, American students falling behind Asian students, 47 million food stampers, weakening of our defenses, Muslim converts outpacing Christians, the Mexicanification of the US,....etc. Our culture is decaying at an acccelerating rate with no slowdown in sight. It’s a matter of when not, if.
Nothing new really, complacency, idiocy, democracy.. over time they eat almost anything from the inside out.
Eat drink and be merry.. maybe somebody will put up a statue to commemorate our finest days.
Babylon fell due to an over-mighty and increasingly unaccountable State.
Rome fell due to an over-mighty and increasingly unaccountable State.
Maybe it's somehow tied to technical progress, American has seen more in it's 200+ years than the Roman empire did in a thousand years. Perhaps this has accelerated the birth and death cycle.
Things happen much faster now due to electronic communications. Culturally destructive memes are much easier to spread.
" What difference does it make?"
Throughout that period people continued to copulate and eat bad diets.
the United Staes will collapse like Rome when a big volcano or comet screws up the weather ~ but we'll be back in a decade since our technology is simply not going to need 1000 years to recover!
If it does collapse it will be because of the most fundamental sin: the refusal to think. Those who demand the unjustified whether it be welfare or a job that they have not earned will destroy it. Those who hold sacrifice as a virtue and achievement as a vice are undoing it. Those who punish success and reward failures are rotting it from within. Those who act not on reason and a long range view towards the future but instead on the whim of the moment are bringing it down.
Maybe it’s somehow tied to technical progress, American has seen more in it’s 200+ years than the Roman empire did in a thousand years. Perhaps this has accelerated the birth and death cycle.
In one word, “YES”.
You can thank technology for that. I think Art Bell once wrote a book about it called "The Quickening", in which he says technology is speeding up societal evolution. One of my college profs told me about it 15 years ago...which is probably equivalent to 400-500 Roman Empire years.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Absolutely...and when it happens those foreigners will return to their nations..and the elites will move overseas to their villas etc.....
Take a look sometime at the American Embassy in Iraq....do people really think that huge “city” was built just to house “ambassadors?
The world stage and governance will not be from the USA here.....overseas is the new next central government for all nations.
Caligula: AD 12 - 24.
Nero: AD 37 to 68.
Deposition of the last Western Roman Emperor: AD 476.
Considering C to have been a direct result of the moral degeneracy of A and B requires quite a leap.
Anywho, for it's last 150 years the Roman Empire was Christian, complete with homosexuality as a capital crime.
FWIW, the peak of the Roman and Greek civilizations happened to coincide with their periods of greatest acceptance of open homosexuality. Personally, I don't thing A caused B here, either, but it is a fact.
Also, the Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1000 years, till 1453.
There was posted last week an article on Huffington Post â not written by one of the token âconservativesâ who post there â that delicately pointed out that many children in the USA are being raised partly or totally by their grandparents because these children’s mother are unmarried. What was stunning was that this writer edged up to asserting that it is not good for a nation when the traditional family unit falls apart. That this appeared on HuffPost tells you how obvious it is becoming that our nation is imperiled.
Yes. America is in rapid decay. Moral, cultural, and economic decay. The country has become a pathetic shell of what it used to be. A pale shadow of its former greatness and exceptionalism.
If anything portends its demise more fully, it’s the combination of reaching the “takers overwhelming makers” threshold, and the cultural embrace of the abject degeneracy of things like homo marriage. Death-knells.
No, it will be worse than the fall of Rome. Rome didn’t have NBC weapons that will most certainly fall into the hands of those with evil on their minds and willingness to use them to further Satan’s plans.
I have never seen any evidence to this effect, that Babylonian families deteriorated and that this caused their civilization's collapse.
My understanding of Babylonian religion is that sexual orgies including male and female temple prostitutes were prominent from the beginning.
Civilization all comes down to morality, trust and respect of one another.
Everything bad in society is just a symptom of the breakdown of that moral foundation. No amount of wealth or government will change it.
Unless we change our ways very soon, we are doomed to see a repeat of Rome
We were once the most literate nation in the world. Now our students can't crack the top ten.
We drove cars on the Moon. Now we can't even get into low earth orbit without hitching a ride with the nation we beat in the space race.
The Term "Will" does not apply being were are in the middle of the referenced "Collapse". The problem is the decline is for now, slow and stately. But that won't last and we have signs now that we are picking up speed on that final downhill run.
Those that would conquer us (China, Islam) are eager to see us decline. Russia, US, Europe will be the cheap labor forces of the 2030’s and beyond. I don’t want to see it happen, don’t see any way to reverse the trends. Pray, and hope we can survive to rebuild what we once had.
One theory is that the behavior of relatively small numbers of elites (or even an underclass) aren’t nearly as important as the character of the civilization as a whole, which usually means what we call middle classes.
The correct question is “Will America go the way of the Roman Republic?” That is about the state we’re in.
It didn’t take America as long as Rome to decline because we had television. The advent of wide-spread availability to TV correlates to most of the ills of our society.
This reflects a drastic lack of understanding of the history involved.
The "Babylonian civilization," really Mesopotamian civilization, was more or less continuous from 1800 BC to 1200 AD, when it was destroyed by the Mongols. Different cities were the center of that civilization over time, and different groups dominated it, but there was enormous continuity. You can actually go back much earlier, perhaps to 4000 BC, if you go back into Sumerian times.
This civilization never collapsed for 1500 years. It was dependent on massive irrigation works, which were often destroyed in wars. But the huge peasant population always rebuilt them.
Then the Mongols rolled thru and not only destroyed the irrigation works, they killed pretty much all the peasants. Nobody to rebuild.
What is now Iraq was a major center of civilization for at least 5000 years, but it has never really recovered from the Mongols.
If ancient ROME had invented TV and movies infested with fags they would not have lasted as long as they did.
It will be worse; ours is a decent into slavery. Most will be returning to Egypt; already in the process of selling themselves to the head of the most powerful nation in the world.
The proper question to ask is, who is our Marius? Our Sulla? How do the current political situations and customs reflect the situations at the time they took their actions?
The Roman Republic died mainly because there weren’t enough people of character in power to sustain it. The Good Men did nothing.
Even more tragic was the fate of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which at one time was the most prosperous and powerful entity in all of Europe.
If you look into the demographics here, there are some interesting stats.
People of Japanese and Chinese ancestry in America do better than those in the home country.
People of Swedish and German ancestry in America do better than those in the home country.
People of Mexican and African ancestry in America do better than those in the home country.
See a trend? Our low averages are more a result of our demography than of our failure to educate.
This was seen recently in an argument between Texans and Wisconsinites (?).
The WI folks were dissing TX for their low test scores, till somebody pointed out that blacks in TX did better than blacks in WI, hispanics in TX did better than hispanics in WI, whites in TX did better than whites in WI, etc.
But the much larger number of minorities in TX skews the results.
Will America Collapse Like the Roman Empire?
***It is collapsing just like the Roman Republic. Once it became an empire, it was in full decline.
Historians trace the death of the Roman republic to Julius Caesar when he crossed the Rubicon river to engage in Civil War. I think historians will trace the end of our republic to the day in 2008 that the SCOTUS did not look into the eligibility of Obama, which was their job. They didnt do it because they feared the political consequences. The SCOTUS has been granted lifetime employment for that very reason, that they wouldnt need to consider political consequences in upholding the constitution. They failed our republic.
So do I. There is archaeological evidence, though not a lot. There were fewer people in the world then - and the best may have traveled away from Earth to avoid the cataclysm.
And even if it didn't happen, there are a few dozen great novels to be written based on the concept. :)
I will trace it to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.
Sexual license was the least of Rome's problems, and was pretty much restricted to the patrician class anyway. Now illegal immigration, on the other hand, that was a real problem, and a very interesting parallel to our own budding issues in that arena. Caracalla tried extending citizenship by geographic occupancy, numerous emperors conferred it as a reward for military service. None of the four emperors in Diocletian's Tetrarchy was born in Italy. Hmm...
Thank you, Miss Rand. :). But you are absolutely correct...
This may paint me as a history nerd, but Rome didn’t fall for 400 years after Nero, and it was “great” again after his reign. By the second (and definitive) Sack of 455 by the Vandals, Rome was a passionately Christian city. And the Vandals were Christians, too (still clinging to some Odin/Thor fallbacks). But Rome wasn’t the empire’s capital anymore at that point, so it was a symbolic fall. The real seat, at Constantinople, didn’t fall for another 1,000 years. Even then, the Turks so admired the empire they conquered, they tried to perpetuate their state as the Roman Empire (like it was a franchise or something) and Greeks continued to call themselves the “Romioi” until the 19th century.
There is an overarching factor, one always at work, that shapes the minds and distinctive achievements of its cultural creators and makes sense of the past and can be helpful in predicting the future. That factor is how one thinks or what is the predominant mode of thought of a culture. The mode of thought that made America great was integration. As this gets replaced by disintegration (Kant, pragmatism, postmodernism, linguistic analysis, nihilism), or by misintegration (marxism, mohammedism, metaphysical materialism), we are headed toward totalitarianism.
I don’t know that we’ll get lucky enough have a Sulla or Maurius. We seem have the same corrupt politicians that Republic Rome suffered from, and we seem to the same leveling bastards that fought them. In fact we seem to have a pseudo-Gracchi president...
Take a look sometime at the American Embassy in Iraq.
An excellent point, I had not considered this.
AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.
We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.
We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.
With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!