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Pope Francis' First Crisis? Defiant Archbishop Refuses to Quit
ABC/Univision ^ | 5/0/2013 | Santiago Wills

Posted on 05/10/2013 5:44:53 AM PDT by cll

The new pope's first crisis is not related to the Church's controversial position on contraceptives or proposals for female clergy. Rather, Pope Francis' first major quandary is getting rid of a Puerto Rican archbishop who, despite the Vatican's numerous requests, has repeatedly refused to step down.

The source of Pope Francis' current ordeal is Roberto Octavio González Nieves, the outspoken Archbishop of San Juan, who has been accused by Vatican emissaries of allegedly protecting pedophile priests, abusing his power, promoting Puerto Rican independence from the U.S., and supporting a law that could grant same-sex couples living together hereditary rights and health benefits, according to the Vatican Insider.

González Nieves was confronted by Cardinal Marc Ouellet, the current prefect of the Congregation for Bishops, and denied the allegations during a tense meeting in Puerto Rico on December 15, 2012. In the course of the discussion, the Vatican envoy subtly asked González Nieves to resign and to ask the Church for a new position elsewhere.

On several occasions the Vatican has asked Puerto Rican Archbishop Roberto Gonzalez Nieves to leave his post. But supporters of the archbishop have organized several meetings to pray for his continuity. This flyer announced a prayer meeting that took place in San Juan, on the 8th of May.

Nearly two months later, González Nieves sent Ouellet an angry missive that was recently leaked to the Puerto Rican press.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: francis; puertorico; vatican

1 posted on 05/10/2013 5:44:53 AM PDT by cll
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To: rrstar96; AuH2ORepublican; livius; adorno; wtc911; Willie Green; CGVet58; Clemenza; Narcoleptic; ...
Puerto Rico Ping! Please Freepmail me if you want on or off the list.


2 posted on 05/10/2013 5:45:36 AM PDT by cll (I am the warrant and the sanction)
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To: cll

Then fire his ass

Problem solved?


3 posted on 05/10/2013 5:51:08 AM PDT by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: cll

I kind of agree with the Cardinals stand on Puerto Rican independence although I have a hard time understanding what that has to do with this controversy.


4 posted on 05/10/2013 5:53:16 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: cll

Interesting. A detatchment of Swiss Guards? How are they gonna dispatch this tick?


5 posted on 05/10/2013 5:54:32 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: cll
"But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak". (1 Cor. 8:9).

Perhaps he should consider resigning, regardless of whether he's guilty or innocent, to avoid becoming a stumbling block to others.

6 posted on 05/10/2013 5:58:42 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Mr. K

Amen Brother.

It’s time for the Pope to put on his Donald Trump disguise and say “You’re Fired”.

The Priests of Puerto Rico will have to make up their minds if they support a pedophile or the Pope.


7 posted on 05/10/2013 5:58:58 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: cll

That is a conundrum: How to politely fire a person who will not leave. Too bad the Catholic church does not have enforcers any longer.


8 posted on 05/10/2013 6:00:49 AM PDT by madison10
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To: Mr. K

The problem with the article is that it is very short on facts. The letter, which is referenced, doesn’t appear in the link.

Secondly, we don’t know what Cardinal Ouillet actually said in his meeting.

If the Archbishop is defying a specific order, then, what typically happens, is he would be called to Rome. From there, he would take a “Time Out” in an Italian monastery.

Should he not straighten himself out, then excommunication hearings could begin. See Archbishop Emmanuel Milingo.


9 posted on 05/10/2013 6:02:16 AM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: cll

Amen to the Pope for dealing with child molestor issue.

Keep it coming.


10 posted on 05/10/2013 6:04:26 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: madison10

“Too bad the Catholic church does not have enforcers any longer.”

I bet Barry is watching this so when his time is up, he will just refuse to go.


11 posted on 05/10/2013 6:04:51 AM PDT by Mouton (108th MI Group.....68-71)
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To: saganite

Because he is one of a very tiny minority on the island that wants independence. The rest of us - over 90% of the citizens - want to remain part of the U.S. either through the current arrangement or through statehood. In fact, statehood won the last referendum on the issue last November. Another fact that escapes most people that do not live in Puerto Rico is the fact that most independence supporters, including the Archbishop - are hard core socialists and that’s why they are almost universally rejected here.


12 posted on 05/10/2013 6:05:07 AM PDT by cll (I am the warrant and the sanction)
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To: cll

No future Popeship for you Gonzalez.


13 posted on 05/10/2013 6:08:10 AM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: madison10

Francis is being nice about it first.

He can take away this goofball’s rights to act as a priest.

It’s called forced laicization, more casually referred to as “defrocking”.


14 posted on 05/10/2013 6:08:25 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (God Bless America)
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To: pax_et_bonum

Go, Francis! I like seeing RIGHT done on the planet on occasion.


15 posted on 05/10/2013 6:12:07 AM PDT by madison10
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To: madison10

I agree!

Francis seems to be fearless and true.


16 posted on 05/10/2013 6:16:03 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (God Bless America)
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To: Mr. K

The Pope has no authority to fire another bishop. He is a much an apostolic successor as is the Holy Father.


17 posted on 05/10/2013 6:24:08 AM PDT by pgkdan (Some taglines never go away....)
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To: pax_et_bonum

Nope. Can’t happen. The Pope can excommunicate him if he’s teaching outside the scope of the Magesterium but he can’t defrock a bishop any more than St Peter could’ve kicked St Andrew out of the group of Apostles.


18 posted on 05/10/2013 6:31:41 AM PDT by pgkdan (Some taglines never go away....)
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To: Mr. K

Exactly. Fire his ass, throw him out in the street and have him arrested if he remains on Catholic property. He is a common criminal.


19 posted on 05/10/2013 6:32:17 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: pgkdan

Why not?


20 posted on 05/10/2013 6:33:46 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (God Bless America)
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To: pgkdan

Archbishop is a title. My understanding is that they can be fired, but once he is fired he would remain a bishop for life.

Being a bishop is a title that cannot normally be removed as it involves Holy Orders (i.e. a sacrament) and stays with you for life.


21 posted on 05/10/2013 6:36:26 AM PDT by impimp
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To: pax_et_bonum
It’s called forced laicization, more casually referred to as “defrocking”.

Only by secular neophytes. Neither word appears in Canon Law. The correct term is dismissal.

22 posted on 05/10/2013 6:42:57 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: cll

My point is that I statehood wouldn’t seem to be a matter for the Vatican’s consideration one way or the other.


23 posted on 05/10/2013 6:44:05 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: cll

"We just stopped sending him paychecks...

...and the problem just .. fixes itself!"


24 posted on 05/10/2013 6:47:46 AM PDT by The Duke
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To: pgkdan

Per Canon Law, Nieves can be dismissed from the clerical state and excommunicated.


25 posted on 05/10/2013 6:48:29 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: saganite

The thing is, he forces his political views on the parishioners, and that was the source of one of the complaints: asking the Vatican to tell the Archbishop to cease and desist from engaging in island politics. He just won’t stop.


26 posted on 05/10/2013 6:54:16 AM PDT by cll (I am the warrant and the sanction)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

What is difference between “dismissed from the clerical state” and “forced laicization”?


27 posted on 05/10/2013 6:56:50 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (God Bless America)
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To: pax_et_bonum

One term is canonical and one term is secular.


28 posted on 05/10/2013 6:59:29 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

So, they mean the same thing?


29 posted on 05/10/2013 7:00:33 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (God Bless America)
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To: madison10

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


30 posted on 05/10/2013 7:03:39 AM PDT by FatherFig1o155 (Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil. -- Thomas Paine)
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To: cll

Time to let the Swiss Guard pay a visit to Puerto Rico.


31 posted on 05/10/2013 7:06:51 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: cll

Send a cardinal to deliver a formal written declaration of his excommunication and declaring him apostate.


32 posted on 05/10/2013 7:13:42 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: FatherFig1o155
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Lol!
33 posted on 05/10/2013 7:17:49 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (God Bless America)
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To: verga

I think the United States may have something to say about Europeans sending government serving mercenaries to operate over here in our neighborhood.


34 posted on 05/10/2013 7:38:30 AM PDT by ansel12 (Sodom and Gomorrah, flush with libertarians and liberals, short on social conservatives.)
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To: cll

Does the Swiss Guard have a SWAT team?


35 posted on 05/10/2013 8:05:33 AM PDT by RobinOfKingston (Democrats--the party of Evil. Republicans--the party of Stupid.)
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To: pgkdan

But he can take away his rights to perform mass, hear confessions, etc.

Which is what will happen. He’ll do exactly that - call the archbishop to Rome. If the archbishop refuses to come then he’ll be excommunicated. He’ll appoint a new archbishop.


36 posted on 05/10/2013 8:06:14 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: cll

anybody here know the Latin for “you are fired”?


37 posted on 05/10/2013 8:34:43 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Buckeye McFrog

“anybody here know the Latin for “you are fired”?”

Vos delenda est...


38 posted on 05/10/2013 8:51:17 AM PDT by cll (I am the warrant and the sanction)
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To: cll
This article at Vatican Insider says the Holy See cleared the "pedophile-protector" charge levied against against the Archbishop.

Absent that charge, I see no grounds for dismissal. An admonishment, perhaps, but not dismissal.

~Theo

39 posted on 05/10/2013 10:09:58 AM PDT by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: cll
This is my take in Spanish.

~Theo

40 posted on 05/10/2013 10:52:47 AM PDT by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Te├│filo

He should be the Archbishop of Havana, not San Juan.


41 posted on 05/10/2013 11:51:15 AM PDT by cll (I am the warrant and the sanction)
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To: cll

Actually, the Archbishop of Havana is a sharp dude...

As I said on my post, there are grounds to disagree with Abp. González but to my knowledge, none are “impeachable offenses.” At least, not yet.

~Theo


42 posted on 05/10/2013 11:54:39 AM PDT by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: saganite
If Puerto Rico wants independence, fine. If they want to continue their current status as US citizens, fine.

Even if Puerto Rico became an independent country, Geraldo Rivera would remain a US citizen.

43 posted on 05/10/2013 12:01:20 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: cll
Oh what the heck! All the supporters of “the colony-ELA” are nothing more than “closet” supporters of Independence, they are just afraid to admit it because of the past & present oppression supporters have experienced over the last 114 yrs by the Fed & insular governments. What's important is that a great majority of Americans here in the continental United States oppose a Spanish speaking state, so you can forget about it. We will not allow you to become part of us, but we will continue to make money off of you. You don't march into our home uninvited and your not invited! So, the fact that the Cardinal (of PR) in question supports independence for his country is irrelevant. Unbelievable!
44 posted on 06/02/2013 8:27:33 PM PDT by Crashboat (Is it illegal to support independence?)
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To: cll

The Church seems to have its own Eric Holder!


45 posted on 06/02/2013 8:30:59 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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