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Voting present on Bengazi - What if there was no “order to stand down?”

Posted on 05/11/2013 5:25:37 PM PDT by black_diamond

What if the personnel responding to the assistance requested by those on the ground in Bengazi on September 11, 2012, were assembled and loaded on transports, just waiting for the green light from Washington and then no green light came from Washington? Not a “no go,” but no “go” or “no go.”

How could that be? We have a President who cannot make a tough decision, hell it took him several tries before he could give the OK to launch the bin Laden raid, so it is entirely possible that he made no decision (voted present) on the request from Bengazi. That would give him the ability (plausible deniability) to say he did not give the order to stand down. Then someone in the chain of command, after waiting and waiting for the order to launch eventually realized that it was not coming and then used the term “stand down” to tell those who were assembled and ready to return to their pre-alert status (go home). Just a thought. What do you think?


TOPICS: War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: benghazi; benghazistanddown; libya; vanity; waronterror
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1 posted on 05/11/2013 5:25:37 PM PDT by black_diamond
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To: txhurl

Ping.


2 posted on 05/11/2013 5:27:07 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: black_diamond

My guess is that it’s plausible that he didn’t give the order, but the order came nevertheless.

My assumption is partly based on the idea that the military will do what it thinks best, if no contrary order is given otherwise.


3 posted on 05/11/2013 5:27:55 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: black_diamond

The Lt. Col. was VERY specific and if he did not think he understood it, he would have asked again. PLus an order like that was not a no or go it is specifically engage or stand down. There is no wiggle room in that order.


4 posted on 05/11/2013 5:28:14 PM PDT by mazda77
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To: black_diamond

I think somebody gave the order to stand down. Woods, Doherty, and five CIA officers essentially hijacked a jet in Tripoli to get there. Th ltCol was furious because he knew they were ordered not to go.


5 posted on 05/11/2013 5:28:46 PM PDT by Flightdeck (IMPEACH and CONVICT)
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To: black_diamond

I seem to remember it was Sec. Defense that launched the Benghazi raid and then called Obama on the Golf Course and told him it was on.

I understand Valerie Jarrett shat herself when she found out.


6 posted on 05/11/2013 5:30:23 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: black_diamond

Lt Gen. Thomas McInerney: ‘There Is Only One Person Who Can Say, Stand Down – And That’s The President’


7 posted on 05/11/2013 5:31:05 PM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: black_diamond

present.


8 posted on 05/11/2013 5:31:48 PM PDT by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
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To: black_diamond
The Lt. Colonel who said the team lacked the authority to go needs to be subpoenaed to testify before a House investigative committee, preferably a Select Committee if Boehner will ever stop being an obstructionist.
9 posted on 05/11/2013 5:32:19 PM PDT by Truth29
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To: black_diamond

entirely possible...I hope we can find out in the next round of hearings. There’s lots to learn on many fronts - stand down order, talking points revisions, demotion of Hicks, who pushed the video, who’s hiding the victims and why, who denied multiple requests for embassy security, where was Obama during critical period etc.

I’m sure there are others......I hope someone can list and publish a comprehensive list of unanswered questions.


10 posted on 05/11/2013 5:33:07 PM PDT by GotMojo
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To: Jonty30

Whether he did or not, he should have been in control and not allowed someone to give that order. It was his responsibility to make sure our Ambassador and staff got the security they needed.


11 posted on 05/11/2013 5:33:33 PM PDT by FrdmLvr (culture, language, borders)
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To: black_diamond

“Mr President, we have American Citizens in harm’s way in Benghazzi. Do we have your permission to try and save their lives?”

(.....Crickets......)

Any answer, or non-answer, other than “Permission Granted” demands an explanation to the families of those lost, and to the American people.


12 posted on 05/11/2013 5:33:46 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: FrdmLvr

We know that, but we also know that Obama wanted the glory of the Presidency, but none of the responsibility.

He’s the President, but he’s not in control.


13 posted on 05/11/2013 5:35:34 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Doogle
There it is...and there is only one person who can issue Cross Border Authority.

The overwhelming theory here is that Valerie Jarrett overrode the President's authority (who himself did not issue an order...just waffled, waiting for Valerie's order)

14 posted on 05/11/2013 5:40:57 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama's Chechens are coming home...to roost.)
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To: black_diamond

The retired Special Operations General on Huckabee tonight said he expects the hearings will disclose a breakdown in the chain of command. He’s been there, done that, and his speculation is probably better than most anyones.

This is purely MY speculation (which isn’t worth anything) but suppose Obama wouldn’t make a decision (ala a repeat of his 6 months to study option for Afghanistan). Given his tendency to fiddle around, it could be a failure to act rather than a direct order not to.


15 posted on 05/11/2013 5:41:47 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: black_diamond

Standdown orders have to come thr prez.


16 posted on 05/11/2013 5:42:03 PM PDT by ully2
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To: black_diamond

Damned scary to think this MASCOT of the White House has his finger on THE button...or, maybe he doesn’t.

He probably gave the responsibility of the n-clear football to the “Iranian of the Day”!

Valerie Jarrette:

http://iranian.com/main/singlepage/2008/valerie-jarrett

(OOOOPS! It’s been scrubbed! Whaddaya know?)


17 posted on 05/11/2013 5:43:06 PM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Jonty30

He is an affirmative action president. He needn’t be in charge at all times...only in those times in which race and social justice are called into question.


18 posted on 05/11/2013 5:43:07 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama's Chechens are coming home...to roost.)
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To: black_diamond

I was watching the attack on the consultate in the days after it happened and the news station had a tape and I heard “Stand down” supposedly on a tape. I usually watch FOX but I have no idea which news it was on. I realize this qualifies as a rumor, but I know what I heard.


19 posted on 05/11/2013 5:44:03 PM PDT by OldEagle
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To: GotMojo

Ted Cruz has some good questions:

But many more questions remain. Here are a dozen:
• Why was the State Department unwilling to provide the requested level of security to Benghazi?
• Were there really no military assets available to provide relief during the seven hours of the attacks? If so, why not? During the attacks, were any military assets ordered to stand down?
• If the chairman of the Joint Chiefs thought there was “no question” this was a coordinated terrorist attack, why did Ambassador Susan Rice, Secretary Clinton, and President Obama all tell the American people that the cause was a “spontaneous demonstration” about an Internet video?
• Why did the State Department edit the intelligence talking points to delete the references to “Islamic extremists” and “al Qa’ida”?
• Why did the FBI release pictures of militants taken the day of the attack only eight months after the fact? Why not immediately, as proved so effective in the Boston bombing?
• Why have none of the survivors testified to Congress?
• Why is the administration apparently unaware of the whistle-blowers who have been attempting to tell their stories? Is it true that these career civil servants have been threatened with retaliation?
• Did President Obama sleep the night of September 11, 2012? Did Secretary Clinton?
• When was President Obama told about the murder of our ambassador? About the murder of all four Americans? What did he do in response?
• What role, if any, did the State Department’s own counterterrorism office play during the attacks and in their immediate aftermath?
• Why was Secretary Clinton not interviewed for the ARB report?
• And why, if all relevant questions were answered in the ARB report, has the State Department’s own inspector-general office opened a probe into the methods of that very report?


20 posted on 05/11/2013 5:44:41 PM PDT by randita
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To: black_diamond

Spot On!


21 posted on 05/11/2013 5:45:57 PM PDT by REDWOOD99 ("Everyone should pay taxes. Everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: Flightdeck

I agree. Somebody gave the order to stand down. I can’t imagine anyone in the military would do it and I certainly do not believe O has it in him to make the decision either way. My theory is that he decided not to decide.


22 posted on 05/11/2013 5:48:15 PM PDT by black_diamond
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To: black_diamond

You’re on your own!!


23 posted on 05/11/2013 5:49:16 PM PDT by americas.best.days... ( I think we can now say that they are behind us.)
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To: mazda77

Let me try saying this another way.

There is no question that an order to send the military into action has to come from the President. The only exception being if it’s an attack on a military base, where the commander has a bit more leeway.

Point is, the default mode is “no go”. It takes a specific order to send troops into action, whether it is to defend, rescue, or recover bodies.

It’s going to some down to sworn testimony and exact words. There’s a difference between “no go” which is the default state while awaiting orders, and “stand down” which implies going to a reduced state of readiness. That’s why they’ve got to get the military and CIA people on the record, under oath. There’s not much point in parsing words that are filtered to us through the news media.


24 posted on 05/11/2013 5:51:13 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: randita

that’s a nice list......they should be repeated in daily press conferences and TV ads until we have answers.


25 posted on 05/11/2013 5:51:21 PM PDT by GotMojo
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To: bigbob

I agree that there may have been a breakdown in the chain of command. That breakdown came from indecision at the top; the military reacts well when it receives orders, even if they are orders they don’t like. What it does not react to very well is the lack of orders.

A fish rots from the head - Russian proverb.


26 posted on 05/11/2013 5:53:20 PM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: randita

Another one would be: Was President Obama asked to make a decision on sending help to Bengazi? If so, when, what was his response and when was it given?


27 posted on 05/11/2013 5:56:30 PM PDT by black_diamond
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To: black_diamond

Possible. One thing we know for sure, is that the President is the only one that can give the cross border order, and that didn’t happen, so the only effort for rescue would have to come from within the country.

Initially I read that a group was being sent from Tripoli, then I read that that group had been ordered back to Tripoli.

I guess it is possible that they didn’t want leave the embassy in Tripoli undefended due to the violence in other locations of the Mideast at our other diplomatic locations. Figuring that Tripoli could be next site to be attacked.


28 posted on 05/11/2013 5:56:45 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Doogle; Travis McGee
McInerney's got it wrong.

Lots of people can say "Stand down".

Only one person can say "Go".

That's the president.

29 posted on 05/11/2013 5:59:58 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Jonty30
I think you have accurately discribed things
30 posted on 05/11/2013 6:02:25 PM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: mongo141

Unfortunately, we have a hostile media, who would rather see the country burn to the ground than do their jobs.


31 posted on 05/11/2013 6:05:14 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: bigbob

Point is, the default mode is “no go”


Exactly. CIA, State and the military passed the actionable info up to the NSC in the White House. They did nothing, fearing a Desert One type scenario. Since then we have been dealing with a steaming pile of CYA for why the White House did nothing.


32 posted on 05/11/2013 6:07:26 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: black_diamond

Obama took one phone call early on as events unfolded. After that, nobody knows where he was for the remainder of the evening. We need to pin somebody down, under oath, to specifically describe where Obama was, and what he was doing during these “lost hours.”


33 posted on 05/11/2013 6:15:27 PM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: bigbob
There is no question that an order to send the military into action has to come from the President. The only exception being if it’s an attack on a military base, where the commander has a bit more leeway.
______________________________________________
I'm not so sure in this case. The action required was not a U.S. preplanned attack or assault, it was a rapid response to an attack on the U.S. In these cases, I think there are preexisting procedures that go automatic, When Stevens pushed the button that he was under attack the preexisting procedures took over. The only way to stop such a preplanned response is the President saying “Stand Down.”
34 posted on 05/11/2013 6:21:09 PM PDT by iontheball
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To: black_diamond

What do I think? Glad you asked. To dither is the same as saying “no go.” The b@st@rd is equally guilty either way.


35 posted on 05/11/2013 6:23:05 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (Democrats--the party of Evil. Republicans--the party of Stupid.)
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To: DuncanWaring

I believe that those people in the Consulate in Benghazi had reasonable expectation of rescue, given their close proximity to the Med, and the knowledge that there were Special Operations Forces already in-country. Would that we had a Thomas Jefferson as CinC now, and not that current limp-wristed sissy.


36 posted on 05/11/2013 6:23:15 PM PDT by Ax
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To: black_diamond

It’s not just a matter of calling for action, it’s a matter of legistics. Would you ready men and materials on the outset of an attack? Or, would you rule it a protest and let what may happen...happen? Knockoff at 5pm and have fish tacos and watch TV -this was Obama.


37 posted on 05/11/2013 6:27:23 PM PDT by Fitzy_888 ("ownership society")
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To: black_diamond
I'm rabid at the WH and State Department leaders. I'm just as rabid at my fellow citizens for reelecting this bastard.

What I said earlier;

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2951371/posts?page=279#279

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2951276/posts?page=11#11

38 posted on 05/11/2013 6:30:33 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama murdered the SEALs.They "were hung out to dry, basically exposed like a set of dog balls,...")
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To: iontheball
In these cases, I think there are preexisting procedures that go automatic, When Stevens pushed the button that he was under attack the preexisting procedures took over.

That's all fine, good and well ... until they get to an international border.

At that point, there is exactly one person on the face of the earth who can say "Keep going".

39 posted on 05/11/2013 6:33:49 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: black_diamond

Since he said they were told twice to “stand down” he would have lied under oath if instead they received “crickets” from Washington.

If anyone but the President authorized a stand down order, she/he must be fired.

If the President gave it, and then threw the video maker under the bus to protect his reelection, EVERYONE including the biggest Obama fans, is going to be very upset at this President. I know people who adore Obama, volunteered for him, who would have nothing to say about it in his defense, if he let those people die so that he could be reelected.

IF HE DID, THEN BENGHAZI IS HIS CHAPPAQUIDDICK.


40 posted on 05/11/2013 6:42:56 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Chgogal
COL. Hunt threw Dempsey under the bus on Justice with Judge Jeanine.

Why did Dempsey say we couldn't get there in time?

"...disingenuous at best, and a lie at the worst...."

41 posted on 05/11/2013 6:43:44 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "were hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: FReepers; Patriots; FRiends






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42 posted on 05/11/2013 6:45:01 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: Chgogal

Former Navy SEAL Christopher Mark Heben: “This administration reeks.”


43 posted on 05/11/2013 6:45:08 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "were hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: black_diamond

concerning ‘stand down’.

Tripoli to Benghazi, is all inside of Libya.

the plane they would have used, was flown
by Libyans.

what permission was needed?

please enlighten me.


44 posted on 05/11/2013 6:46:55 PM PDT by RockyTx
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To: black_diamond
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice....
45 posted on 05/11/2013 6:52:39 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chgogal

I’m rabid at the WH and State Department leaders. I’m just as rabid at my fellow citizens for reelecting this bastard.


I feel for the low info voter. Some are low info for good reason. They are caring for sick or elderly or lots of kids, they don’t have the time to seek out knowledge. They get it from their news shows.

They were lied to.

I know a lot of libs would be incensed at their Obama for this lying and murder. How do I know? Because I remember telling some John Edwards fans that he had gotten his campaign videographer pregnant while he was running for Pres and his wife dying of cancer. They did NOT believe me. We all knew this on FR. Then the National Enquirer proved it and they were all stunned and lost all respect for him. The Low Info Voter doesn’t know where to ge truth and doesn’t have the means or time to figure it out.

My mom has become a low info conservative, now that she has the beginnings of alzheimers. She still can’t stand Obama, but she can’t synthesize her own opinions any more, poor blessed mom. She just repeats what Fox News says, which isn’t the worst but still she has lost her sharp high IQ that allowed her to gather facts, sift, and judge. For various reasons, lots of us fellow citizens are in her position, unable to process from multiple sources.

We need to fight to get them the truth.


46 posted on 05/11/2013 6:55:33 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Yaelle

Yeah, and Chappaquiddick certainly torpedoed the career of the guy who made that a household name.


47 posted on 05/11/2013 7:13:15 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: black_diamond

Obozo denied cross border authorization.

He can say he did not order stand down, but by not authorizing he accomplished same thing.


48 posted on 05/11/2013 7:15:21 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: black_diamond

There were surely “stand down” orders but they were not issued by the president. Only the president can authorize or order military forces to cross national boundaries. The reaction units waited for that order to go in. O’Lenin yawned went to bed. At least two units were ready to go and started to do it. They were ordered to stand down because the requisite order had not been given. apparently 2 local commanders were relieved of duty instantly when they said they were going in anyway. The in country assets, however, were also told to stand down. Two of them defied orders and went anyway. Those are the two ex SEAL contractors who died rescuing 30 or so people. The question now is who ordered the in country people to stand down? The president refused to order units in and deliberately allowed people to die. He probably thought it would be 34 deaths, though, rather than only 4.


49 posted on 05/11/2013 7:18:06 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: iontheball
The only way to stop such a preplanned response is the President saying “Stand Down.”

Obozo denied Cross Border Authorization. The military in the absense of that authority had to stand down. (It is probably more complicated than that too)

50 posted on 05/11/2013 7:21:30 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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