Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Wall Street is back
The Economist ^ | May 11, 2013

Posted on 05/13/2013 10:11:18 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

American investment banks dominate global finance once more. That’s not necessarily good for America

FOR a few tense weeks in 2008, as investment-bank executives huddled behind the imposing doors of the New York Federal Reserve, Wall Street seemed to be collapsing around them. Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, Merrill Lynch collapsed into the arms of Bank of America. American International Group (AIG) and Citigroup had to be bailed out and the rot seemed to be spreading. Hank Paulson, the treasury secretary at the time, recalled in his memoir that: “Lose Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs would be next in line—if they fell the financial system might vaporise.”

Across the Atlantic, European politicians saw this as the timely comeuppance of American capitalism. Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, blamed her peers in Washington for not having regulated banks and hedge funds more rigorously. European banks saw the crisis as their chance to get one up on the American banks that had long dominated international finance. Barclays quickly pounced on the carcass of Lehman Brothers, buying its American operations in what Bob Diamond, the head of its investment bank at the time, called “an incredible opportunity” to gain entry to the American market. Deutsche Bank, a German giant, also expanded to take market share from American rivals. The dominance that American firms had long exerted over global capital markets seemed to have come to an abrupt end.

Almost five years on it is Europe’s banks that are on their knees and Wall Street that is resurgent.

(Excerpt) Read more at economist.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhodjia; bhoeconomy; wallstreet
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-60 next last

1 posted on 05/13/2013 10:11:18 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

A “resurgent Wall Street”, hm?

The question is, how does The Street lure back the small investors? Because they sure ain’t buying stocks like they used to!


2 posted on 05/13/2013 10:13:52 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
With The Fed buying a half-a-trillion dollars every year in toxic debt and ObaMugabe in the WH, what could possibly go wrong?


3 posted on 05/13/2013 10:16:39 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Should this be titled “Wall Street is Back”, or “Big Daddy Government is Now Sleeping on the Couch!”


4 posted on 05/13/2013 10:17:06 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Leftist, Progressive, Socialist, Communist, fundamentalist Islamic policies, the death of a nation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
Wall Street is not "back". I've been saying get out for months now...

What's your exit strategy?

5 posted on 05/13/2013 10:26:03 AM PDT by BreezyDog (Illegitimi non carborundum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BreezyDog

“Wall Street,” in the context of this column, means “investment banking.” It’s a little surprising that few people get it.


6 posted on 05/13/2013 10:28:56 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

It’s amazing what $20 trillion or so in taxpayer money can do.


7 posted on 05/13/2013 10:29:59 AM PDT by Wolfie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wolfie

$20 trillion? Wow, talk about inflation.


8 posted on 05/13/2013 10:31:51 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

” Should this be titled “Wall Street is Back”, or “Big Daddy Government is Now Sleeping on the Couch!””

Goldman Sachs i.e. The White House, is doing fine, so all is well : )


9 posted on 05/13/2013 10:35:45 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Watch this video-”electronic run on the banks”-Kanjorski-2009.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD8viQ_DhS4

At about the 2:15 point in the video, Kanjorski talks about a “tremendous draw-down of money market accounts”-550 BILLION dollars, in less than an hour.

Remember when Hussein and McCain came back from the campaign trail when this happened?

Pres. Bush looked scared to death, McCain looked very concerned, and Hussein looked bored. (thanks, soros-fool us once...)

Someone is trying to bait the little guy back into the market—NONE for me!


10 posted on 05/13/2013 10:38:39 AM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
A blast from the past.


11 posted on 05/13/2013 10:44:24 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn, the best firehose is an AK-47.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Sell! Sell! Sell!


12 posted on 05/13/2013 10:45:25 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to detonate anyone who says otherwise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stephenjohnbanker

We do want big players to be healthy, but we don’t want it at the expense of the average Joe. And as for as U. S. Government investments in Wall Street, hell no.


13 posted on 05/13/2013 11:21:58 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Leftist, Progressive, Socialist, Communist, fundamentalist Islamic policies, the death of a nation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Wall Street is back? Did it bring back my money?


14 posted on 05/13/2013 12:02:33 PM PDT by ozzymandus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

15 posted on 05/13/2013 12:04:11 PM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
A few decades ago I used to read the Economist cover to cover but for years now I just roll my eyes any time someone quotes the rag. 

This whole idea of an 'investment banker' on 'Wall St' is a crock.    In real life the term 'investment banker' can refer to anyone working in the capital markets, but in the Economist/loony-left/Obamafaction world it's the evil exploiting pin stripe capitalist yadda yadda.  Even the idea of a Wall St. is bogus.   OK, so maybe 50 years ago something actually physically happened there but capital markets have long since gone electronic; even the NYC financial offices have moved uptown.   All that's left on south Manhattan is the image:


16 posted on 05/13/2013 12:40:44 PM PDT by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
With The Fed buying a half-a-trillion dollars every year in toxic debt

What toxic debt?

17 posted on 05/13/2013 2:46:43 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Wolfie

Taxpayer money? Where?


18 posted on 05/13/2013 2:47:36 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Mortrey
At about the 2:15 point in the video, Kanjorski talks about a “tremendous draw-down of money market accounts”-550 BILLION dollars, in less than an hour.

That was funny. And inaccurate.

19 posted on 05/13/2013 2:49:31 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: expat_panama

The Economist was always squishy. In the recent past, it has become more so. I agree. I still look in on it now and then.


20 posted on 05/13/2013 3:45:29 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

Oh, the housing market will make it all back?

Fed Undertakes QE3 With $40 Billion Monthly MBS Purchases

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-13/fed-plans-to-buy-40-billion-in-mortgage-securities-each-month.html


21 posted on 05/13/2013 3:58:19 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
Fed Undertakes QE3 With $40 Billion Monthly MBS Purchases

Are you claiming the MBS the Fed is buying is toxic?

22 posted on 05/13/2013 4:07:35 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

Yeah I know, you were OK with using the Treasury to bail everything out.

We’ve discussed that, too.

When it’s over, the Fed can just keep on printing money.


23 posted on 05/13/2013 4:16:17 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
When it’s over, the Fed can just keep on printing money.

And you can keep avoiding the question.

24 posted on 05/13/2013 4:42:53 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

No, you know that housing is in trouble.

But hey, you’re from Illinois and all for QE3.

And you were working for some company bailed out; as you said before.

We all know people are struggling with house payments.

As long as Bammy and the Feds bailout works for you personally, you’re just fine with it.


25 posted on 05/13/2013 4:45:29 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
No, you know that housing is in trouble.

What does that have to do with your MBS claim?

And you were working for some company bailed out; as you said before.

Wrong and wrong.

You're on a roll.

We all know people are struggling with house payments.

Some people. But many others have refinanced to ridiculously low rates and reduced their overall debt.

26 posted on 05/13/2013 4:52:41 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot; Admin Moderator

Nah you’re often on a thread making excuses for the bailouts.

Anybody can look at the thread; you’re the only pro-bailout voice on the thread.

The Fed buying up more home loans isn’t the fix and you know it.

So who are you defending here, Obama? The Fed? Bernanke?

Who?

Never mind.


27 posted on 05/13/2013 4:55:28 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
Anybody can look at the thread; you’re the only pro-bailout voice on the thread.

Correcting your errors makes me pro-bailout?

The Fed buying up more home loans isn’t the fix and you know it.

I wonder where I claimed it was?

So who are you defending here, Obama? The Fed? Bernanke?

I'll defend to the death, your right to make silly, error-filled claims.

28 posted on 05/13/2013 4:58:04 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

Funny how you challenged several people on the thread.

You’ve got some skin in this game.

Because you always show up.


29 posted on 05/13/2013 4:59:36 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
Funny how you challenged several people on the thread.

Looking for proof of claims. You keep running from yours.

30 posted on 05/13/2013 5:03:57 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I still look in on it now and then.

Absolutely --me too and likewise w/ the NYT, BBC, & the LAT.  Sure they can turn the stomach but there are gems.  Kind of like picking though a full toilet for the accidently dropped gold ring but always worth the trouble.

31 posted on 05/13/2013 5:12:07 PM PDT by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

Ain’t running at all, smarty pants.

I already told you how I felt about the Fed buying up housing debt.

Now, if you love the idea of the Fed just printing and printing, well, live on in that world.

Some of us will not be on board with it.


32 posted on 05/13/2013 5:16:14 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle; Toddsterpatriot; admin
you were OK with using the Treasury to bail everything out.

Help me out, I can't find where Todd said anything about using the treasury --on this thread.

33 posted on 05/13/2013 5:20:18 PM PDT by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: expat_panama

I called the fed buying up $40 billion a month in housing debt - almost 1/2 trillion a year as toxic debt.

Explain to me why The Fed needs to do that if the original lending institution isn’t concerned about getting their money back.


34 posted on 05/13/2013 5:21:49 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle

busy with several windows - it’s Bloomberg, sorry

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-13/fed-plans-to-buy-40-billion-in-mortgage-securities-each-month.html

Fed Undertakes QE3 With $40 Billion Monthly MBS Purchases

The Federal Reserve said it will expand its holdings of long-term securities with open-ended purchases of $40 billion of mortgage debt a month in a third round of quantitative easing as it seeks to boost growth and reduce unemployment.


35 posted on 05/13/2013 5:24:09 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
I already told you how I felt about the Fed buying up housing debt.

Yes, you said the Fed was buying toxic debt. So prove it.

36 posted on 05/13/2013 5:25:41 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

You already have my thoughts on it.

Well, tell ya what, ping me back on the thread when The Fed gets all those loans paid back.

I’m having a hard time believing they will, but hey, guess we gotta wait for it.


37 posted on 05/13/2013 5:27:30 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
You already have my thoughts on it.

Yes, I already saw your silly claim about toxic debt.

Well, tell ya what, ping me back on the thread when The Fed gets all those loans paid back.

They're guaranteed......the opposite of toxic.

38 posted on 05/13/2013 5:28:46 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

OK they’re not toxic - according to *you*.

So, if that is so, why is QE3 necessary?

Why does The Fed suddenly need to buy $480 billion dollars in loans every month?

And, states clearly, in the article (and elsewhere) that it’s ‘open-ended’.


39 posted on 05/13/2013 5:30:52 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

OK they’re not toxic - according to *you*.

So, if that is so, why is QE3 necessary?

Why does The Fed suddenly need to buy $480 billion dollars in loans every YEAR? (typo on previous)

And, states clearly, in the article (and elsewhere) that it’s ‘open-ended’.


40 posted on 05/13/2013 5:31:59 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
OK they’re not toxic - according to *you*.

They're guaranteed. They trade above par. Tell me your definition of toxic.

So, if that is so, why is QE3 necessary?

I don't think it is, but with the idiot we have in the White House........

41 posted on 05/13/2013 5:34:17 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

OK, they’re “guaranteed”. Expand on that please.

I guess some of us are concerned about The Fed buying up a half-a-trillion dollars or loans per year. What with the deficit just growing and growing.


42 posted on 05/13/2013 5:37:21 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
OK, they’re “guaranteed”. Expand on that please.

Agency MBS is guaranteed. Even if the borrower defaults, payments are made to the bond holder.

What with the deficit just growing and growing.

Yes, Bush spent way too much. Obama makes Bush look like a skinflint.

The Fed buying program does not add to the deficit.

43 posted on 05/13/2013 6:20:33 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

“Agency MBS is guaranteed. Even if the borrower defaults, payments are made to the bond holder.”

Cool. Where do those payments come from? PMI? That would be my guess, I suppose.

“The Fed buying program does not add to the deficit.”

Awesome. So the private bankers take the responsibility for the $480 billion? Cool.


44 posted on 05/13/2013 6:30:55 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
...the fed buying up $40 billion a month in housing debt - almost 1/2 trillion a year as toxic debt.  Explain to me why...

Ah, now I follow you --so Bloomberg says the Fed's buying $40B/month in MBS's.  Well, sort of. 

It's true that back then the FOMC did say they'd buy 'em up to $40B/mo. and the record of what they actually did buy shows they'd started already w/ $800B worth of MBS's and they've been selling some off while they've been buying.  What's interesting is that mortgage interest rates have fallen to 3.5% (as was the Fed's reason for all this stuff in the first place) and the low interest rates helped make the default rate drop to 1% (also the Fed's goal) so that means the Fed's current $1.12T holdings is raking in $28B per month profit.  That all means also that the MBS's are still selling at face value so as of today they're not "toxic". 

OK, the sky might fall tomorrow and if it does then we can call the MBS's "toxic"; until then we can continue cutting a profit.

45 posted on 05/13/2013 6:42:32 PM PDT by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
Cool. Where do those payments come from?

The agencies buy mortgages, package them and resell them. They charge a fee.

So the private bankers take the responsibility for the $480 billion?

Taxpayer funds aren't used. The Fed has a printing press. What private bankers?

46 posted on 05/13/2013 6:55:21 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: expat_panama
the Fed's current $1.12T holdings is raking in $28B per month profit.

Your number is off, they only made a total of $91 billion last year.

47 posted on 05/13/2013 6:57:14 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot

“The Fed has a printing press. What private bankers?”

The Federal Reserve is not, essentially, an organization of private bankers? So to speak, that is.

Yes, they have a printing press (obviously). If they’re printing money, are they not putting that against something on some sort of balance sheet?

I guess one could say the loans are assets, and the printing of the money are the liabilities.


48 posted on 05/13/2013 7:08:45 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle
The Federal Reserve is not, essentially, an organization of private bankers?

Nope. It's the government.

If they’re printing money, are they not putting that against something on some sort of balance sheet?

The money they create is their liability, their asset is the bond (Treasury or MBS) they buy.

I guess one could say the loans are assets, and the printing of the money are the liabilities

During the crisis they made lots of loans, not now. Just bond purchases.

49 posted on 05/13/2013 7:16:01 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
...mortgage interest rates have fallen to 3.5% (as was the Fed's reason for all this stuff in the first place) and the low interest rates helped make the default rate drop to 1% (also the Fed's goal) so that means the Fed's current $1.12T holdings is raking in $28B per month profit...

Your number is off, they only made a total of $91 billion last year.

Huh.

Let's see my number was from the Fed links @ $28B = $1.12T X (3.5% - 1%) --wait a sec, that should also have ÷ 12mo./yr so the $28B is per year.  Aw what the heck, $28B/yr is still not "toxic".   BTW, where did the $91B come from? 

This is all way past my bed time...

50 posted on 05/13/2013 7:19:23 PM PDT by expat_panama
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-60 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson