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Pope Francis urges global leaders to end 'tyranny' of money
The Telegraph ^ | May 16, 2013 | Nick Squires

Posted on 05/16/2013 8:45:01 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

Pope Francis has called on world leaders to put an end to the "cult of money"

He said free-market capitalism had created a “tyranny” and that human beings were being judged purely by their ability to consume goods.

Money should be made to “serve” people, not to “rule” them, he said, calling for a more ethical financial system and curbs on financial speculation.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: capitalism; catholic; cronycapitalism; mammon; money; popefrancis
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Countries should impose more control over their economies and not allow “absolute autonomy”, in order to provide “for the common good.”

I guess Francis didn't get the memo about socialist governments murdering more than 200 million of their own citizens since 1900 in the name of the "common good."

1 posted on 05/16/2013 8:45:01 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: E. Pluribus Unum

He states the position as to why I am NOT a Catholic


3 posted on 05/16/2013 8:49:32 AM PDT by stockpirate (F. Douglass, "A man's rights rest in three boxes: ballot box, jury box, and ammo box)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Money should be made to “serve” people, not to “rule” them, he said, calling for a more ethical financial system and curbs on financial speculation.

In a modern division of labor economy, the earning of money becomes an essential aspect of productive activity. This is because in order to live in such an economy, one must obtain the goods and services of other people. Those goods and services are not given away for free, nor, to any significant extent are they, or could they be, obtained through barter. To obtain the goods and services of others, one must possess money. Thus, if one's productive activity is to be appropriate to life in a division of labor society, that is, to be the means of obtaining the goods and services of others, it is essential that it be moneymaking. Only then, does one's activity make it possible for one to share in the benefits of a division of labor society.

4 posted on 05/16/2013 8:50:32 AM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: Maceman

People get mad when I call him a Communist.

But the truth hurts.


5 posted on 05/16/2013 8:51:47 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I know the pope means well, and I fully believe he is very moral and just man.

I also know that the pope has about as much ability to make economic judgements as does the Obamadork about making any judgement at all.


6 posted on 05/16/2013 8:52:14 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: mjp

The “pope” thereby proves himself to have absolutely NO IDEA what money is. Very similar to an Obama drone.


7 posted on 05/16/2013 8:53:23 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Seems like everyone in a top position wants to preach socialism, but always with someone else’s money. What you give to one person, you take from another, either directly (taxes) or indirectly (inflation). America has stood out by allowing people the opportunity to succeed, and I believe our citizens have benefited by that. I will grant the Pope one thing, and that is we create a false class based on wealth. However, Americans have long realized that class and money are not the same thing. Take away media coverage of the rich and most are hollow shells of humanity. But take away capitalism and the opportunity to succeed and we have two classes consisting of a small upper class of corrupt government officials and a very large lower class of poor. Which is better? And if capitalism is so bad, why have we contributed so much to poorer nations?


8 posted on 05/16/2013 8:55:29 AM PDT by Boomer One
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
More likely you didn't get the memo that the media lies.

This article is long on attribution, but short on actual quotes.

9 posted on 05/16/2013 8:57:11 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: fwdude

Didn’t take him long to make that left turn..


10 posted on 05/16/2013 8:58:01 AM PDT by BubbaJunebug
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
We have all been taught that greed is bad, but free market capitalism promotes ambition, which was still a good thing last time I checked.
Money, like any other tool, can be used wisely or unwisely.
I can think of no better social program than to let people work, earn a salary and choose for themselves how to spend it.
Any system that "redistributes" money without just compensation is THEFT. That is bad even for Catholics I thought.

11 posted on 05/16/2013 8:59:45 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
This garbage coming from a man who lives like a king - what are we supposed to use, wampum?
He probably would like to have the power of life and death over the masses, like the old days.
12 posted on 05/16/2013 8:59:55 AM PDT by dainbramaged (Joe McCarthy was right.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Anybody have a link to the popes' full remarks. It's hard to judge based on the sound bites. Not Catholic, I'm Baptist. But to play devil's advocate:
13 posted on 05/16/2013 9:01:14 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I’d guess he really does believe 1 Timothy 6:10.


14 posted on 05/16/2013 9:01:17 AM PDT by Errant
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To: fwdude

In other news, Neal Cavuto absolves sins.


15 posted on 05/16/2013 9:01:57 AM PDT by steve8714 (Any homosexual man can marry any woman he wants. Just like any normal man.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Oh good grief. Maybe the Pope should be looking at the RC's "tyranny of money". They buy artworks and other useless paraphenalia when they could be feeding the poor.

Now please, don't get me wrong. I know the RC church does a lot for the poor. But if the Pope is going to go down this road, he'd better make some changes in how the RC manages it's own money first.

16 posted on 05/16/2013 9:02:42 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: fwdude
“pope” thereby proves himself to have absolutely NO IDEA what money is...

Exactly! Money is an individuals SWEAT! It is an individuals LABOR! Diminish it, and you enslave the INDIVIDUAL.

17 posted on 05/16/2013 9:02:51 AM PDT by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Oh crap. We’ve got a socialist / communist as Pope.

This will not end well.


18 posted on 05/16/2013 9:05:04 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (WHO IS ON THE ENEMIES LIST?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Unchecked capitalism had created “a new, invisible, and at times virtual, tyranny”, said the former Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio.

I fear his holiness has confused "unchecked capitalism" with corrupt socialism. It is the loss of the rule of law and the loss of equality of opportunity, not capitalism, which leads to inequality of wealth.

Inequality in itself is not a bad thing but within limits a good thing. Without inequality there can be no incentive, no striving for improvement. Inequality is an indication of economic health, it reflects progress which must inevitably be uneven. Extreme inequality is almost always the result of government interference and corruption and it produces not just richer rich people but poorer poor people.

Inequality is not an evil if it means that the rich are richer while the poor are not poorer.


19 posted on 05/16/2013 9:05:24 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: DannyTN
I didn't see him call for socialism, only more control.

There has been plenty of control... by the Alinskyites.

We have a second subprime collapse coming, only this time it is in car loans, because banks are not allowed to deny car loans to black people.

I am not being hyperbolic.

20 posted on 05/16/2013 9:06:24 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to detonate anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: C210N

Money is the distilled value you have provided to the world.

Ignore money, and you literally ignore the worth of the individual.

That’s not G-d. That’s Satan.


21 posted on 05/16/2013 9:06:25 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (WHO IS ON THE ENEMIES LIST?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I don’t like this pope - he comes from the school of Rev Wright - Liberation Theology, aka Marxism.


22 posted on 05/16/2013 9:06:46 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: fwdude

Oh, I think the Pope knows pretty well what money is.

If he didn’t, he would have ordered Roman Catholic Churches to immediately cease passing collection plates at services, as part of this speech.


23 posted on 05/16/2013 9:07:28 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This is NOT a matter of Faith or Morals and shows a complete lack of understanding of Capitalism.

Socialism creates Tyranny.

Capitalism creates opportunity.

Governments are NOT charities and to the extent the pretend to be, they have stolen your freedom, at the price of power and control. (Freedoms such as Religious liberty...)


24 posted on 05/16/2013 9:09:18 AM PDT by G Larry (Darkness Hates the Light)
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To: Maceman

That’s real classy...to say nothing about what’s going to happen to your immortal soul.


25 posted on 05/16/2013 9:13:58 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Maceman

“The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.”
1 Timothy 6:10

That’s the LOVE of money, not money itself, as is often misquoted.

Meaning if you’re willing to toss morals and ethics aside in order to accumulate money. I believe that is what the Pope was trying to say.


26 posted on 05/16/2013 9:14:11 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I guess he hasn’t figured out where all that money comes from in those little baskets they pass around every Sunday.

You can bet your bottom dollar those baskets are the first things that get cut when it comes time to tighten most families belts when people like him get in charge.

It seems the monastery’s ECON 101 class was napped through by this guy...


27 posted on 05/16/2013 9:14:22 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Here is the actual transcript...no where does the Pope mention 'free market capitalism'.... read and decide for yourselves.

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-financial-reform-along-ethical-lines
28 posted on 05/16/2013 9:16:09 AM PDT by battousai (Conservatives are racist? YES, I hate stupid white liberals.)
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To: fwdude
People get mad when I call him a Communist.

No one should get mad at you when you make silly mistakes like that.

You're only human.

29 posted on 05/16/2013 9:16:42 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Countries should impose more control over their economies and not allow “absolute autonomy”, in order to provide “for the common good.”

So people who have real jobs are assumed not to know how to do the right thing, while people who DON'T have real jobs and whose salaries are paid for by the labor of others are assumed to be capable and have only the best of intentions??? How does this guy manage to shovel his Total in his mouth in the morning without stabbing himself in the eye?

30 posted on 05/16/2013 9:16:57 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: mjp

Speculation is what avoids shortages. Yes some make a lot of money, but they also take on a heck of a lot of risk to make that money....My problem is when government steps in and reduces the risk, at the expense of the taxpayers.


31 posted on 05/16/2013 9:18:21 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I would suggest waiting to see what he actually said. And waiting further to see what he actually does.

There is a bit of naivete in his comments about money. On the other hand, there is also considerable naivete in the pure Ayn Rand view of things. If it’s everyone for himself and the devil take the hindmost, that doesn’t work out very well either.

What you want is a free market with players who are decently moral and just. Well, you aren’t going to get either one completely in the real world. The market ceases to be free when you have big money players cheating at the top. And it ceases to be moral when you have big money players full of greed, raised by the public school system, and educated by Hollywood and the bong smokers.

So, you need some regulation. But some regulation soon becomes crooked, big government, crony regulation. All you can do is try to set up checks and balances, and try to educate people to behave better than they do. I think that’s what the Pope is trying to do. He’s not the head of the International Treasury Department. He’s one of the providers of moral advice to individuals and governments. He’s telling Catholics not to put money first, but to put God first.

And, of course, the press will distort everything he says.


32 posted on 05/16/2013 9:19:08 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
He said free-market capitalism government controlled industry had created a “tyranny” and that human beings were being judged purely by their ability to consume produce goods.

Now that would describe China, a communist/atheist country.

I guess the Pope would like the government to be the god and provide all for the people.

33 posted on 05/16/2013 9:19:52 AM PDT by dragonblustar
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To: MEGoody

“They buy artworks and other useless paraphenalia ...”

Can you name some of the artworks they are currently buying? Or do you mean they bought artworks 500 years ago and you’re still nursing that grudge?

People like you remind me of a Calvinist firend of mine. His father’s congregation met in (literally) a tin roof shack and they were so proud of its lack of ronamentation and poverty. His family lived in a beautiful house and they had two all-leather chairs in their living room which he admitted cost 1,000 pounds EACH. That was in 1987.

So they didn’t “waste” a penny on God’s run-down old house but they sure spent a pretty penny on their own.


34 posted on 05/16/2013 9:20:33 AM PDT by edwinland
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

What Francis said is consistent with the positions of recent popes, including John Paul II, and the official position of the church. Vatican Council II upheld the principle of the “universal ownership of all goods” and emphatically said, “If one is in extreme necessity, he has the right to procure for himself what he needs out of the riches of others.”(“Gaudium et Spes”, Vatican Council II: The Conciliar and Post Conciliar Documents, Para. 69)

I recently read this short paper and recommend it for anyone interested in this subject.

“Papal Promotion of Collective Ownership and Theft” by Richard Bennett (former Roman Catholic priest) and Robert J. Nicholson

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/sorted/01_On_Catholicism/Papal_Economics.pdf


35 posted on 05/16/2013 9:20:54 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Errant

I don’t imagine he would be Pope, if God didn’t want him to be.


36 posted on 05/16/2013 9:22:37 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Ecclesiastes 10:19

...money answereth all things


37 posted on 05/16/2013 9:22:52 AM PDT by beefree
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To: battousai
Why should we read what he actually said?

It's much more enjoyable to pretend he said something else.

38 posted on 05/16/2013 9:23:01 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: battousai
Here is the actual transcript...no where does the Pope mention 'free market capitalism'.... read and decide for yourselves.

How DARE you interject facts when people have a good rant on.

Do you not realize that FReepers are required to have a healthy skepticism of the press on each and every topic in the world except Catholicism. On that subject, they will believe exactly what the press says.

39 posted on 05/16/2013 9:23:32 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

It isn’t Free-Market Capitalism that got us here, It is blatant Cronyism-greed (more akin to socialistic central planning) that has brought the worlds to where we are.


40 posted on 05/16/2013 9:25:13 AM PDT by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Tyranny of money? Didn’t Francisco D’Anconia have something to say about this?


41 posted on 05/16/2013 9:27:51 AM PDT by Fast Moving Angel (A moral wrong is not a civil right: No religious sanction of an irreligious act.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

OK, I’m done with him. Disappointing as I was really liking him.


42 posted on 05/16/2013 9:30:07 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Yet the banks will take the blame because nothing can EVER be the goobermint’s fault, except when they’re in big business’ pocket and they “under-regulate”.


43 posted on 05/16/2013 9:31:57 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: markomalley

Nothing about capitalism, marxism or socialism in here:

“The Holy Father began his address to those present on a positive note by praising advances in various areas. These achievements he underlined, in fields such as health, education and communications can only benefit mankind.
But at the same time, the Pope went on to say, “the majority of the men and women of our time continue to live daily in situations of insecurity, with dire consequences… People have to struggle to live and, frequently, to live in an undignified way.”
Pope Francis explained that in his opinion, one cause of this situation, was our relationship with money, and our acceptance of its power over ourselves and our society. Consequently, he added, the financial crisis which we are experiencing makes us forget that its ultimate origin is to be found in a profound human crisis. “In the denial of the primacy of human beings.”
He continued by saying the worship of the golden calf of old, has now a new image, “in the cult of money and the dictatorship of an economy which is faceless and lacking any truly humane goal.” Our societies, Pope Francis noted are becoming throw away ones, and worse still he added, “human beings themselves are nowadays considered as consumer goods which can be used and thrown away.”
The Pope explained that what we are really seeing concealed behind current attitudes is a rejection of ethics, a rejection of God, and speaking directly to the new Ambassadors the Holy Father encouraged the financial experts and the political leaders of their countries to consider the words of Saint John Chrysostom: “Not to share one’s goods with the poor is to rob them and to deprive them of life. It is not our goods that we possess, but theirs”.
Stressing the need for financial reform along ethical lines, the Pope noted that it would require a courageous change of attitude on the part of political leaders and he urged them to face this challenge with determination and farsightedness, taking account, of their particular situations.
In his concluding comments, Pope Francis said that the Church herself encourages those in power to be truly at the service of the common good of their peoples”


44 posted on 05/16/2013 9:32:07 AM PDT by Clarence
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To: Clarence

There’s a lot of misunderstanding about the Catholic concept of distributism, which is NOT a redistribution of wealth, as so many think.

Here’s just the first couple sentences from wikipedia about what it actually is:

“Distributism (also known as distributionism or distributivism) is an economic philosophy that developed in Europe in the late 19th and early 20th century, based upon the principles of Catholic social teaching, especially the teachings of Pope Leo XIII in his encyclical Rerum Novarum and Pope Pius XI in Quadragesimo Anno.
According to distributists, property ownership is a fundamental right and the means of production should be spread as widely as possible among the general populace, rather than being centralized under the control of the state (state socialism) or by accomplished individuals (laissez-faire capitalism). Distributism therefore advocates a society marked by widespread property ownership and, according to co-operative economist Race Mathews, maintains that such a system is key to bringing about a just social order.”

It’s easier to think of it as what capitalism used to be, before the time of the robber barons, a much healthier form of capitalism, with small businesses forming the bulk of manufacture, and not one huge corporation, or the government, owning it and running it all.


45 posted on 05/16/2013 9:38:21 AM PDT by Clarence
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To: Clarence
No there isn't.

The funny thing is that these people complain about this Pope, yet it was this Pope who, two days ago, said the following:

"Let us think of that moment with the Magdalene, when she washed the feet of Jesus with nard, which was so expensive: it is a religious moment, a moment of gratitude, a moment of love. And he [Judas] stands apart and criticizes her bitterly: 'But ... this could be used for the poor!'. This is the first reference that I personally found in the Gospel of poverty as an ideology. The ideologue does not know what love is, because they do not know how to gift themselves".

Tying the "Gospel" of poverty to Judas. Yup, that really identifies him as a true-blue socialist.

46 posted on 05/16/2013 9:47:45 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: stuartcr
That’s real classy...to say nothing about what’s going to happen to your immortal soul.

My point is that if Pope Francis is going to use his religious authority to advocate for the Devil, he deserves damnation.

How many more people have to die and suffer under the heel of totalitarian leftist tyranny? It makes me sick to my stomach that the Pope openly supports that, and if doing so gets him into Heaven, then I don't want to go there anyway.

There's enough tyranny on Earth. Who wants to spend an eternity where tyrants and tyrant enablers are rewarded?

47 posted on 05/16/2013 9:56:21 AM PDT by Maceman (Just say "NO" to tyranny.)
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To: Maceman

Hey, it’s your soul. I personally don’t think any of this matters after we die anyway.


48 posted on 05/16/2013 9:58:57 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Clarence

There is a nastiness in the force today.


49 posted on 05/16/2013 10:15:53 AM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: Clarence
Distributism therefore advocates a society marked by widespread property ownership

Of course one of the tenets of property ownership is the right to sell such property to someone else, and in that lies the rub.

50 posted on 05/16/2013 10:18:12 AM PDT by dfwgator
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