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Scientist Stumped by Actual Dinosaur Skin (article)
Institute for Creation Research ^ | May 20, 2013 | Brian Thomas

Posted on 05/20/2013 7:15:16 AM PDT by fishtank

Scientist Stumped by Actual Dinosaur Skin by Brian Thomas, M.S. *

Being the first ever to examine a dinosaur fossil long buried in sedimentary rock is thrilling enough for a field researcher. But a team working in Canada found an exhilarating bonus on a hadrosaur fossil fragment—it had actual skin still attached.

They found the duck-bill dinosaur fossil near Grand Prairie, Alberta. University of Regina physicist Mauricio Barbi operates state-of-the art synchrotron equipment that can detect and identify chemical signatures without destroying samples. He plans to use the technology to investigate the special fossil and its skin. He told Canadian Light Source (CLS), which houses the synchrotron device, "As we excavated the fossil, I thought that we were looking at a skin impression. Then I noticed a piece came off and I realized this is not ordinary—this is real skin."1

What do they plan to do with this "real skin?" Barbi said, "Everyone involved with the excavation was incredibly excited and we started discussing research projects right away."1 Each project will examine a different question. For example, they plan to sort out what color the dinosaur skin may have been by investigating the skin’s pigment-containing melanosomes. Researchers in China performed a similar analysis on a Sinosauropteryx dinosaur in 2010.2

Which research question carries the most mystery? "But perhaps the greatest question Barbi is trying to answer at the CLS is how the fossil remained intact for around 70-million years." Barbi declared, "There is something special about this fossil and the area where it was found, and I am going to find out what it is."1

Special indeed. But finding the right answer works best by first asking the right question, and focusing on some special quality "about this fossil" that enabled it to persist "for around 70-million years" does not appear to be the right question. That line of research will leapfrog a far more fundamental and relevant mystery: How long could actual dinosaur skin tissue possibly last?

Who, upon entering a room and encountering a burning candle would immediately begin to wonder what special something about that candle enabled it to continually burn for a million? Would it not make more sense to first question how long such a candle could potentially burn before going out?

Similarly, questions that assume some special factor in the skin or in the earth could preserve original organic dinosaur remains for even one million years ignore what is already widely known about skin protein decay. A candle’s flame can be extinguished and relit, but skin decays continually and relentlessly until it is completely gone, becoming dust in thousands, not millions of years. The research questions so far proposed typically exclude the very best explanation—these fossils look young because they are young.

Good luck answering your greatest research question, Mauricio Barbi. Research that ignores the most sensible solution to the dinosaur skin dilemma signals a poor start.

References

Scientists study rare dinosaur skin fossil at CLS. Canadian Light Source Media Release, posted on www.lightsource.ca on April 26, 2013, accessed May 3, 2013.

Thomas, B. Feathered Dinosaur Debate Exhibits Young Earth Evidence. Creation Science Update. Posted on icr.org February 8, 2010, accessed May 3, 2013.

* Mr. Thomas is Science Writer at the Institute for Creation Research.

Article posted on May 20, 2013.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archeology; creation; dinosaur; dinosaurskin; fossil; maryschweitzer; scales; skin

Image URLs are from the ICR article.

1 posted on 05/20/2013 7:15:16 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank

Mmmm .. maybe dinosaur fossils are less than 6000 years old, after all.


2 posted on 05/20/2013 7:17:02 AM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: fishtank

Looks like a rock.


3 posted on 05/20/2013 7:18:04 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: fishtank
Well OBVIOUSLY humans and dinosaurs had to live contemporaneously in the town of Bedrock having a Yabba Dabba Do time!/s

So why do we find dinosaur and other archaic tropical fossils in Antartica, but the only modern species we find are penguins and such?

4 posted on 05/20/2013 7:19:02 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: fishtank

Some Texan will try to make a pair of boots out of it.


5 posted on 05/20/2013 7:23:55 AM PDT by CrazyIvan (Obama's birth certificate was found stapled to Soros's receipt.)
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To: fishtank
Need to ask a bit more to determine if there is a Scientific Consensus, before coming to the conclusion that Scientists Are Stumped...


6 posted on 05/20/2013 7:25:40 AM PDT by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: fishtank

Proving that there is more than one way to skin a dinosaur.........


7 posted on 05/20/2013 7:26:00 AM PDT by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? Google your own name......Want to have fun? Google your friend's names........)
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To: allmendream

Perhaps at some point the earth rotated on a different axis!!


8 posted on 05/20/2013 7:26:42 AM PDT by ontap
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To: CrazyIvan

Quite possible if they can clone the skin cells or harvest the DNA.........


9 posted on 05/20/2013 7:26:52 AM PDT by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? Google your own name......Want to have fun? Google your friend's names........)
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To: fishtank; Revolting cat!; Slings and Arrows; SunkenCiv

Can you fry them up like pork rinds?


10 posted on 05/20/2013 7:28:18 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: CMB_polarization
maybe dinosaur fossils are less than 6000 years old

And maybe the Egyptians used them as draft animals to build the pyramids.

And maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt.

11 posted on 05/20/2013 7:28:57 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: ontap
At some point where no modern species existed on Antarctica but many ancient tropical species (including dinosaurs) did? It still doesn't answer why we find no large (or placental, or hoofed) mammals, but only dinosaurs and the like.

The Earth rotating on a different axis doesn't answer the question, it just raises more questions. Questions that creationists are not prepared to answer.

12 posted on 05/20/2013 7:30:06 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream

Sometimes sarcasm is funny.

Most of the time, it's just --- Maddow.

13 posted on 05/20/2013 7:30:07 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: fishtank

Sometimes ignorant attacks on science are funny, but most the time they are just cretarded.


14 posted on 05/20/2013 7:31:23 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: CMB_polarization

Mmmmm, maybe you’re just voluntarily ignorant. Gimme a break.


15 posted on 05/20/2013 7:33:21 AM PDT by lefty-lie-spy (Stay metal. For the Horde \m/("_")\m/ - via iPhone from Tokyo.g)
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To: AngieGal

ping


16 posted on 05/20/2013 7:35:17 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: fishtank

Interesting how the descriptions of the sample the Institute for Creation Research are different from the ones published elsewhere.

One would think that these fully mineralized fossils with traces of organic residues trapped in the rock matrix are practically grocery store fresh!


17 posted on 05/20/2013 7:35:46 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: CMB_polarization

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071203-dino-mummy.html

Earlier find with the soft tissues preserved. Apparently pretty common and not an indicator of a young earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrosaurid#Discoveries


18 posted on 05/20/2013 7:39:47 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: fishtank

Of course it’s rock, this is a skin fossil. It is not the actual skin, which has been replaced by minerals, leaving this impression. Otherwise, they would be testing the cells, dna, etc.

The author is sadly mistaken thinking this is skin that is only a few thousand years old.


19 posted on 05/20/2013 7:39:50 AM PDT by Williams (No Obama)
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To: CMB_polarization

quick!
Ignore it!


20 posted on 05/20/2013 7:41:58 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: fishtank

Simple explanation: Evolution and the giant time spans we’ve read about all our lives are a bunch of BS.


21 posted on 05/20/2013 7:46:31 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: null and void
Interesting how the descriptions of the sample the Institute for Creation Research are different from the ones published elsewhere.

That's because the ICR has an ignorance agenda.

22 posted on 05/20/2013 7:47:04 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: humblegunner
And maybe the Egyptians used them as draft animals to build the pyramids.

Fred the Egyptian and his stone stacking beast of burden.  photo flintstone_zps10c29965.jpg
23 posted on 05/20/2013 7:49:15 AM PDT by ZX12R (Never forget the heroes of Benghazi, who were abandoned to their deaths by Obama)
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To: Moonman62
NO!!! Say it isn't so!!!
24 posted on 05/20/2013 7:51:43 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of opression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: CMB_polarization

and thereby also validating the legends of dragons throughout multiple cultures.


25 posted on 05/20/2013 7:53:16 AM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: CrazyIvan
Some Texan will try to make a pair of boots out of it.

Leather was the first thing that came to my mind. If the skin was sundried properly maybe it resisted mineral infiltration over the millennia. Will cowboy boots retain their structure fifty million years from now, given the right conditions for preservation?

26 posted on 05/20/2013 8:25:18 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: fishtank

for those who have not been paying attention, recently multiple sites have yielded dino soft tissue and blood and sequenceable DNA. From supposedly 50-70 Million year old deposits.

If you believe you can have soft tissue and blood cells that survive at room temp for 50 Million years, then you might also believe sasquatch can avoid being found dead or captured for 300 years here in North America. Or that the earth rides on the back of a giant turtle.


27 posted on 05/20/2013 9:31:46 AM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain

Wrong. Why do creationist sources lie about what is found? Because as usal the facts are against them.


28 posted on 05/20/2013 11:20:58 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream

glad you called me a liar.

Here’s a link to the SMITHSONIAN which, as we all know, is a shill for those know-nothing creationists, right?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur.html

you might google around or something before you call someone a liar. Also, get an education. Anybody in the paleo field has knownd about this for years. And there are multiple finds, do your homework.


29 posted on 05/20/2013 2:40:56 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain
I said creationist sources lie. By this I did not call you a liar - but you have obviously been lied to.

Soft tissue structure is not soft tissue. If a mudslide preserves the detailed structure of an object after the object has decayed away - the object is not there - but the details of the ‘structure’ is. No actual “soft tissue” was found - despite creationist sourced lies about ‘red meat’.

Blood cell structures is not blood. Even if it tests positive in an ELISA for heme.

Fossilized bone is not collagen. Even if it tests positive in an ELISA for collagen.

And there is no indication that any sequencable DNA has ever been found from de-mineralized dinosaur fossils.

So soft tissue = zero.

Blood = zero.

Sequencable DNA = zero.

You have been lied to. So why do creationist sources lie? Because as usual the facts are against them.

The scientists work you linked to is a firm believer in the common descent and evolution of species and an old Earth. Do you think she is wrong about the nature of her own work?

30 posted on 05/20/2013 2:54:11 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream

I guess Scientific American is a Creationist Troll now too.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/10/18/molecular-analysis-supports-controversial-claim-for-dinosaur-cells/


31 posted on 05/20/2013 3:35:12 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: a fool in paradise

;’)


32 posted on 05/20/2013 4:53:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: ontap

The Earth definitely rotated around a different axis, and more than once.


33 posted on 05/20/2013 4:56:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: BereanBrain

from your link:

“Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by ‘young earth’ creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally...”


34 posted on 05/20/2013 4:58:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: allmendream; Williams; null and void; Moonman62

Thanks.


35 posted on 05/20/2013 4:59:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: fishtank

Looks like they can be rehydrated and grilled. Yummy


36 posted on 05/20/2013 5:09:39 PM PDT by MaxMax (Conservatism needs a re-awakening plan for the American public)
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To: SunkenCiv

you are making an argument based the actions of a third party, who you do not like, which has nothing to do with the original science.

Might I suggest you learn from the past?

Read about Louis Pasteur, what he claimed, the prevailing believe of 99% of scientists at the time, what happened to Pasteur (being kicked out of the Academy of Science, no less) and who was proven right.

Truth has no agenda. It can be that a fool is right. People who care about what others think rarely can think objectively.

Sherlock Holmes (a fictional character) said “If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” This is the spirit in which we should make observations — not that of a biased policeman, looking for evidence to convict the man he dislikes.


37 posted on 05/20/2013 7:03:44 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: SunkenCiv

I really don’t care who is hijacking anything.

I merely observe the findings, and draw my own conclusions.

I do not believe that organic material can survive 50,75,100 million years at room temperature. If you want to be counted for those that do, then that’s fine.

It’s incumbent upon those who claim the material is that old to explain how we can have 75 Million year old viable organic matter.


38 posted on 05/20/2013 7:06:40 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: allmendream
The plates of the earth float on the magma below. The fossils found in Antarctica and the Arctic were created when there was just one continent pangea.


39 posted on 05/20/2013 7:09:42 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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The First Fossil Hunters: Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times The First Fossil Hunters:
Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times

by Adrienne Mayor
foreword by Peter Dodson


40 posted on 05/20/2013 7:25:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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Here's most if not all the topics about this (so far):
41 posted on 05/20/2013 7:34:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: BereanBrain

No, you are just completely nuts.


42 posted on 05/20/2013 7:36:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I am nuts. From a believer in Atlantis, planet X, etc.


43 posted on 05/20/2013 7:54:58 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: JimRed

“Will cowboy boots retain their structure fifty million years from now, given the right conditions for preservation?”

Five hundred, yes. Five thousand, maybe. Fifty thousand, it would be a miracle. Fifty million? Dream on.


44 posted on 05/21/2013 9:08:47 AM PDT by Boogieman
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