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Pope Francis says atheists can be good
Reuters/The Guardian ^ | Wednesday 22 May 2013

Posted on 05/22/2013 12:04:19 PM PDT by presidio9

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis has said in his latest urging that people of all religions, and none, work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning mass at his residence, a daily event at which he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good, and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical reply to the hypothetical comment: "But I don't believe

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: atheists; catholic; popefrancis

1 posted on 05/22/2013 12:04:19 PM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9
Sneeringly misleading headline.

It is Rooters.

2 posted on 05/22/2013 12:05:32 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: presidio9

He who is not against us, is with us.

And a potential recruit.


3 posted on 05/22/2013 12:06:54 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Buckeye McFrog

There are plenty of atheist FReepers who are just fine with me. They aren’t out there throwing tantrums about Christian symbols in public or trying to silence us.


4 posted on 05/22/2013 12:09:24 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
"He who is not against us, is with us."

From today's Gospel!

5 posted on 05/22/2013 12:10:38 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Jesus thrown everything off balance." - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: presidio9

Any religious leader is expected to be good to all, and not issue Fatwas for their death because they refuse to believe.


6 posted on 05/22/2013 12:12:19 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Remember Ty Woods, Glenn Doherty and Sean Smith? Forgot already?)
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To: presidio9
He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

I think that God may well not hold it against a person for being an atheist if he/she was never exposed to religion or was somehow coerced into atheism.Otherwise,to absolutely refute God's existence after having been exposed to (reasonable) religious teachings I fear may be unforgivable to Him.Those who are genuinely agnostic....I can see God giving them a "pass" assuming they've led a basically decent life.

Just my personal thoughts...

7 posted on 05/22/2013 12:12:35 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Leno Was Right,They *Are* Undocumented Democrats!)
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To: presidio9

“Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis has said in his latest urging that people of all religions, and none, work together.”

If it can’t work in America then where?


8 posted on 05/22/2013 12:12:37 PM PDT by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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To: presidio9

If you’re interested in reading what he actually said, you can read it here.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3022417/posts

Better than an al-Reuters summary/distortion


9 posted on 05/22/2013 12:18:01 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: presidio9
Although I am a Christian and take the Great Commission seriously, it bothers me not a whit if my neighbor is an atheist. I don't even mind if he politely attempts to proselytize me to his irreligion as long as he extends me the courtesy of polite refusal, and allows an opportunity for me to proselytize him in return.

It is my observation that polite and courteous atheists are in short supply in the present public milieu.

10 posted on 05/22/2013 12:23:59 PM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
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To: presidio9
The real issue is, that BILLIONS of "good" people have and are going to hell.

Being good doesn't get one into heaven.

11 posted on 05/22/2013 12:24:47 PM PDT by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: mountn man

Yep. John 3:17-18.


12 posted on 05/22/2013 12:31:19 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Romans chapters 1, 2 and 3 address that specifically.


13 posted on 05/22/2013 12:31:52 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Gay State Conservative

No way! By grace and FAITH, not deeds.


14 posted on 05/22/2013 12:59:46 PM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Gay State Conservative
to absolutely refute God's existence after having been exposed to (reasonable) religious teachings I fear may be unforgivable to Him.

Just what do you consider "reasonable" religious teachings?

15 posted on 05/22/2013 1:04:29 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: SgtHooper

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.” “Does the will” is very clear, I’ll try that.


16 posted on 05/22/2013 1:08:33 PM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: presidio9

Uh... Atheists ARE second-class believers...

I can’t even believe people are whining that Catholics discriminate against atheists...

Maybe I shouldn’t be that surprised...


17 posted on 05/22/2013 1:08:44 PM PDT by Skywise
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To: presidio9

There are those on FR who think you don’t even have to be good to be a Christian. Faith not works.


18 posted on 05/22/2013 1:31:42 PM PDT by informavoracious (We're being "punished" with Stanley Ann's baby. Obamacare: shovel-ready healthcare.)
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To: informavoracious
There are those on FR who think you don’t even have to be good to be a Christian. Faith not works.

More than a few. Faith AND works.

19 posted on 05/22/2013 1:34:39 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9
I don't see that he said they can be good. I saw where he said the must do good.
20 posted on 05/22/2013 1:39:33 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: Mad Dawg

Rooters poetic license.


21 posted on 05/22/2013 1:40:24 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: mountn man

Ah, but if you believe in works based righteousness...


22 posted on 05/22/2013 1:41:33 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: presidio9

yeah.

It’s an important distinction. SO naturally they’d miss it.


23 posted on 05/22/2013 1:56:29 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: presidio9

To be honest, this whole issue rests on your understanding of 3 things:

Firstly, the phrase “Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus”
Secondly, your interpretation of the Bible
Thirdly, the concepts of salvation through grace (Augustinianism, Calvinism) and salvation through good works.

For the first point, the most recent Catholic Catechism regarding the phrase states that it simply indicates that all salvation comes from Christ the Head, which has the Church as it’s body. This means that those suffering from invincible ignorance are not to blame and can still be saved.

For the second, if one is to take a literal, fundamentalist approach to biblical scripture then we come to no certain conclusion due to the various differing opinions and arguments which can be presented by simply quoting scripture.

For the third, it is important to understand that the Catholic Church’s view regarding salvation is that it is achieved through good work. The Catholic Church does not accept the Calvinist viewpoint that God has fundamentally chosen who is damned and saved when they are born. This in itself creates a predestination-based issue concerning morality, because if this is true, not one person is responsible for their actions.

However, it is important to lastly consider whether a God which is believed to be benevolent (let alone omnibenevolent) would damn good people for reaching a conclusion using the logic and reason he gave them. If he did, surely he would not be benevolent? If he did, I would argue he would not be worth worshiping.


24 posted on 05/22/2013 2:07:47 PM PDT by EExtraEcclesiamNullaSaluss
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To: SgtHooper

I have always taken it as clear that deeds should spring from our faith. We should simply do good deeds because we are joyous in our Father’s Grace, and because our faith inspires us to do so.

It is not the same as doing good deeds because that is how you go to Heaven.


25 posted on 05/23/2013 5:52:13 AM PDT by HushTX (I make libs rage quit.)
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To: HushTX

Agree.


26 posted on 05/23/2013 6:19:10 AM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: HushTX
I have always taken it as clear that deeds should spring from our faith. We should simply do good deeds because we are joyous in our Father’s Grace, and because our faith inspires us to do so.

It is not the same as doing good deeds because that is how you go to Heaven.

There is a third possibility of doing good deeds because it's the right thing to do. I guess you could say that this involves following the Golden Rule, but without believing in the supernatural.

27 posted on 05/23/2013 8:28:19 AM PDT by wideminded
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To: mountn man

“The real issue is, that BILLIONS of “good” people have and are going to hell.

Being good doesn’t get one into heaven.”

RIGHT ON!
“For whoever finds me finds life and obtains favor from the LORD, but he who fails to find me injures himself; all who hate me love death.”

Proverbs 8:35-36


28 posted on 05/23/2013 10:56:04 AM PDT by libdestroyer
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To: wideminded

“There is a third possibility of doing good deeds because it’s the right thing to do. I guess you could say that this involves following the Golden Rule, but without believing in the supernatural.”

Here’s the issue with that...
If you don’t believe in God, how can you know what “good” is?
Where there is no standard-bearer there are no standards!


29 posted on 05/23/2013 10:57:43 AM PDT by libdestroyer
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To: libdestroyer
If you don’t believe in God, how can you know what “good” is?

1. "What is hateful to thee, do not unto thy fellow man: this is the whole Law; the rest is mere commentary." - Hillel the Elder

2. It is not necessary to believe in (or to be afraid of) a supernatural being in order to always follow #1 as a part of one's nature. It's does help to be raised by loving parents who very early teach about right and wrong. But I noticed that my 4 year old son already had a very powerful sense of morality, so I wonder if some of it is innate.

30 posted on 05/23/2013 2:17:39 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: wideminded

“It’s does help to be raised by loving parents who very early teach about right and wrong.”

Where are mom and dad learning right from wrong?
I think you’re right about innate morality. Personally I think God gives moral restraint to man. Revelations is essentially all about that moral restraint fading away and the necessity of judgement on the earth. Heavy stuff :)


31 posted on 05/24/2013 11:56:19 AM PDT by libdestroyer
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