Skip to comments.Secrecy, Heavy-Handed Tactics Reported at Boy Scouts Meeting
Posted on 05/24/2013 6:32:58 AM PDT by chessplayer
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Too bad we don’t have the ID and compamies that the destroyers work for. Because then we could boycot the daylights out of them.
Buh bye, BSA.
Does anyone know the details of the vote?
5/23/2013 BSA membership resolution passes with more than 60 percent of vote
After an extensive discussion within the organization, the Boy Scouts of Americas approximately 1,400 volunteer voting members chose to adopt the membership policy resolution and remove the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone. The final vote breakdown was 61.44 % for the proposal, and 38.56 % against. The change takes effect Jan. 1, 2014. Voting results were tabulated and certified by TrueBallot, an independent, third-party voting firm.
It was a straight-up ballot, i.e., YES or NO. No amendments were allowed on the floor.
The total number of voting delegates was ~1,400 taken from ~294 local councils across the country. Each council had a minimum of 3 votes. Larger councils, defined by the number of youth members, were allocated more voting delegates.
The LDS Church took a beating, from the inside and outside, for aggressively supporting Proposition 8 in CA during 2008. Since then, the Church has moved on to other battles in the cultural wars rather than to continue to take on the homosexual-rights activists for several reasons.
1. Church leadership felt like it was left holding the financial bag after other evangelical denominations failed to come through with promised aid in the fight against Proposition 8. Top church officials were heavily involved in the creation of the National Organization for Marriage (NOM), the primary player over the last decade in the fight to outlaw gay unions.
2. Church leadership feared that continued support of anti-homosexualsexual marriage measures would continue to generate negative publicity which in turn would limit the ability of its farflung missionaries to engage potential converts.
3. The Church wanted to be more welcoming to its members who are afflicted with same-sex attraction.
4. Mitt Romney, perhaps the highest profile Mormon in the U.S. today, had advocated membership for all homosexuals in the BSA since 1994. The chuch did not want to harm Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign.
5. Another high-profile Morman, Jon Huntsman Jr., former governor (R-UT) and former ambassador to Red China under POTUS #44 BHO, announced his support of homosexual marriage in FEB 2013. He also signed on the amicus brief that opposed the DoMA which is currently before the SCOTUS.
6. BSA National President Wayne Perry is a lifelong Mormon. He convinced the Mormon leadership to change its adversarial position against homosexuality in Scouting, which went back to the 2000 SCOTUS case, BSA v Dale.
I read 2 articles in the weeks running up to the election that claimed there were reports of many non-voting delegates planning on showing up to crash the gate and vote in the election. Just didn't pass the smell test. My impression is that access to the meeting was rigidly controlled. According to BSA National, the votes were tabulated and certified by TrueBallot, an independent, third-party voting firm. I am still searching for accounts of how it went down. At this point, I am not suspicious of a rigged vote, but ...
This could also be a natural change, such as happened in the 1970s, when the BSA *stupidly* decided to integrate inner city youths,...
Occam's Razor would agree with you on this 1. I know everyone on FR hates polling, but there have just been so many out the past year which all point in the same direction - a general loosening of morals and tolerance/acceptance of what used to be known as bad behavior. It is incredible that this collection of successful business people could be led over the cliff like a herd of lemmings.
As a christian and a deacon in my church, this policy change has created an untenable position for me. Since I am being forced to choose between my faith and participating in an organization that no longer reflects my values and no longer maintains it’s stated principles, I am left with no choice but to resign my position within the Boy Scouts and disassociate myself.
Effective Immediately, I will no longer support the Boy Scouts of America with either my volunteer hours or with my funds. I resign from both my position as Assistant Scout Master and Committee Member. The next scout meeting that I attend will be to publicly and before the troop resign and take off my scouting shirt.
Do you know which two?
Take your pick from the "lost" 13 ...
MA, CT, IA, ME, VT, NH, W-DC, NY, WA, MD, RI, DE, MN
The "suits" at BSA National did their cyphering and projected they would lose ~11% of the 2012 membership of 2.6 million. Apparently that was acceptable collateral damage. Sadly, I suspect their arithmetic may be close to reality. I would prefer a massive vote of the feet ... but I don't see it in this culture today.
While I admire positive thinking, a healthy dose of reality is needed here. One of the big talking points all of the big guns on the conservative side of this issue said this decision will violate the 2000 SCOTUS BSA v Dale case and open BSA up to further "lawfare" by the homosexualists. The 2nd talking point was that homosexualists will press forward with lawfare against the new membership rule which forbids open homosexual adults.
I’ll have to admit, after gay ‘activists’ firebombed a bunch of their church/temples buildings, they may have decided giving in was safer than being right.
Not quite what you asked for, but close ... from The Pink Swastika.
NOV 1992 NAMBLA sent a letter to BSA Chief Scout Executive Ben Love in which NAMBLA predicted that BSA would eventually succumb to homosexual demands. The letter was also published in the NOV, 1992 NAMBLA Bulletin.
Dear Mr. Love, (Chief Scout Executive, BSA)
At its 16th membership conference, held in Chicago, August 7-9-1992, the North American Man/Boy Love Association unanimously adopted the following resolution:
NAMBLA calls on the Boy Scouts of America to cease its discrimination against openly gay or lesbian persons in the appointment of its scout masters. This will permit scouts to be exposed to a variety of lifestyles and will permit more of those individuals who genuinely wish to serve boys to do so.
I feel especially honored to have been asked to alert you of this resolution. I have also been a scout and a scout leader and share with so many in NAMBLA affection for the movement.
We recognize, of course, that the action for which we call is inevitable. What a great added contribution your organization will make possible to all the boys and girls who participate in it when you take this step. May it be taken in the near future.
We share a common mission to bring greater understanding and light and purpose to the young as they grow. We invite you to join with us in cherishing individual integrity, and in seeking the opportunity for every boy and girl in our country to find their own truth. We encourage you to help every person associated with your organization to be able to express those values from themselves which to them represent for themselves the Good, the True, and the Beautiful. As we work together toward these ends Light will guide our way.
We express these sentiments most respectfully,
Co-Recording Secretary, NAMBLA
Thumbs up on your post. Astute.
While I would like to agree, the evidence supports massive executive managerial incompetence tampering with the store's business model as the reason for the store's brutal loss of share of market. The executive who created this debacle, if I remember correctly, came over from Apple.
Women are the primary shoppers at JCPenny. They loved the sales and discount coupons. When the new exec (who was let go this year) came on board he dispensed with the coupons and sales - made everything 1 low price. The women shoppers voted with their feet.
While I have no use for Ellen DeGeneres, the public seems to love her. I do not think having her as a JCPenny spokesman hurt the store. Not sure about the 2012 Mother's Day and Father's Day catalog ads which included pictures of homosexual couples and children.
And yet others are more homophilic.
2019 24th World Scout Jamboree at the Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, Mount Hope, WV. The projected attendance is several tens of thousands of Scouts from around the world, aged 14 to 17. BSA will co-host the event with Scouts Canada and the Mexican Scout Association.
Scouts Canada is already infected with the homosexualists. One report I read said that the Summit is in deep red debt getting ready for this summer's National Scout Jamboree.
You could be right. BSA is babysitter for single moms and most single moms don’t care if Johnny grows up to be an emasculated 0bamabot.
They’ll have to remove the “morally straight” clause of the pledge now.
Actually, they did, though they did it under court order.
I read hundreds of pages of the documentation posted online by a newspaper. It included a specific situation with an adult leader I knew decades ago a Cub Scout, a leader who was removed with no public explanation (at least none that I knew about as a boy; maybe the adults knew).
And then, there was an E-4 chaplain’s assistant working as a Scout Leader here at Fort Leonard Wood decades ago who got removed from Scouting, and later on ended up having to register as a sex offender due to subsequent civilian criminal convictions.
To say I got angry after reading the Scouting files is a gross understatement.
The Scouts did the right thing to remove these people from contact with young boys — including me.
To do anything else would have been a gross dereliction of duty.
Absurd. An openly homosexual Boy Scout is a child and, given that most churches run Scout Troops, an opportunity to redeem a lost soul. They’re at most 2% of the population and likely even fewer among the Scouts proper.
See it as an opportunity to undo the damage done. These kids can be helped and straightened out. Quitters never win.
That’s silly. Since its inception there likely have been secretly homosexual Boy Scouts. Now, let it out into the light where it can be managed and treated. These are confused boys who need direction, clarity and the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Love them back to normalcy.
Don’t abandon them to deviancy.
Yuri Besmenov was a prophet. America's "demoralization" is complete. We are ripe for the fall.
When confronted, the FedEx manager admitted that when he saw the handouts being printed in the shop that he contacted the hotel to tip off BSA staff so they could respond.
Somehow I see in my mind a pimply faced Nazi youth.
This what happens after generations of children are sent into godless government owned and run socialist-entitlement schools. And.....Christians and conservatives let them and continue to allow it.
It is **foolish** and wrong to engage ** children** ( other boy scouts) in what should be spiritual and emotional therapy.
The better solution is to form a young boys church organization that participates with other churches in a Christian Boys group, exclude homosexuals and teach morality, honesty and God’s word. You save what you can discard the rest. It is a fact of life. By the way homosexual rapes are way up in the military, so much inclusion.
You are obviously in the minority around here, and as far I am concerned an enabler for homosexual agenda by standing by the decison.
Your pseudonymous personal opinion is meaningless to me. I’m often in the minority and it doesn’t bother me. My principles are deep and well founded.
How does this decision to allow homosexual youth in Scouting promote the homosexual agenda?
Are there now in Scouting, boys who feel they’re homosexual?
Isn’t it better that the religious leaders of the sponsors as well as the Scout leaders themselves know who these troubled boys are?
How else can they get the help they need?
Homosexuality isn’t a permanent condition beyond the power of Jesus Christ’s Atonement. Homosexuality thrives on secrecy of perversion. This decision is consistent with the Scout purpose http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsoathlaw.asp as well as Christianity.
You don’t redeem the boy by forcing him to hide his problem. Stop playing checkers with homosexuality. Play chess instead. Homosexuality is a mental disorder and treatable.
How many cured homosexual boys would it take to completely destroy the homosexual agenda? Think outside the box.
So as a Scout leader (you are an active Scout leader, right? Not just some grump with an Internet connection?) a young man comes to you to say that he’s homosexual what is your next move?
Utterly silly and I doubt you’re a deacon or a Christian (it’s capitalized BTW). So your church sponsors a Scout troop? A young man comes out as “homosexual” and your first response as a leader and Christian is to abandon him?
You sound like a whiney simp. Weak, with a capital “W”.
This attitude is why conservatives lose, they’re not game to fight all the way to winning.
Do post a video of you, shirtless, in front of all your Scouts. What a great example.
So it’s better to abandon the boy to his lifestyle than lead him to Christ and a lifestyle that’s morally straight?
Single moms in Scouting know just how badly their sons need positive male role models. Her son, if he thinks he’s afflicted with homosexuality, likely is the victim of sexual abuse.
Let’s just wash our hands of it, right? It’s not the Christian thing to step in, work hard and do our Savior’s will.
When good men do nothing, evil prevails.
Do you have a medical, genetic or logical reason for believing that homosexuality isn’t treatable mental illness?
Where better to treat it than at its root in youth.
You don’t cure sin by indulging in it or enabling it.
Exactly correct. Isn’t it about time we take back our children? Homosexuality is acting on the margins, at the dim, gray area between light and dark. Bring it out into the light.
It’s curable and conservatives should wimper away, but stand and fight. Morally straight means something and a heterosexual Scout who is having sex with girls isn’t morally straight. It’s the same standard for a homosexual Scout, only now you know about his illness and can treat it appropriately.
I don’t know a single mom with a son in Scouting that wants him to be homosexual. They’d welcome the help. Maybe your church troop is different, but ours would work with him to get him out of the lifestyle and lead a Christian life.
Why do you believe it is not leavening to insert a pinch of leaven in the dough? ... Shirley you get the gist of that analogy. But then again, the concept is perhaps too hugh for you to take series.
That's the key point you're missing. You can still be denied membership for not being "morally straight" and not living up to the Scouting standards which haven't changed at all.
“Um, no” to what?
So evil is that powerful that you’d walk away and let it run its course? That’s not Christian, but cowardice.
You aren’t fooling anyone with your ‘to what’, and your game to twist what is posted in response to you is getting a bit stale. Find something different than strawman to play with. Aren’t there any Mormonism threads you can play on? Will the Mormons embrace homosexuality in the scout programs they run? Looks like it. You want to denfned that? Just be honest about it, not obtuse. You’re not smarter than an average freeper as you believe yourself to be.
So did I. In my case, I came across the records of 3 local council scout executives, who I either knew or had met, who had to act upon the files and expel the offenders.
While that is a very Christian, and noble, perspective, let's think further upon it. BSA's policy has always been that the volunteers are forbidden from talking of sexual matters with their scouts. Of course, that is, to a degree, violated when you show them some of the YPT videos - Is "A Time to Tell" still used? Counselling of open homosexual youth would require further training of volunteers. This strays over into the area of "reparative therapy" which is all in the news right now and is under heavy assault by the homosexualists. Of course, commensurate with the homosexual scout is the boy's parents. Now that is another potential time bomb waiting to go off. We get enough of irate parents who aren't involved with their son's unit as it is. Then there is the matter of protecting your younger scouts from an older open homosexual scout. I am not trampling upon your viewpoint - it just needs further examination before I am convinced BSA should go there.
Indeed ... and the churches. Italian communist Antonio Gramsci's (1881-1937) "long march through the institutions" has succeeded.
The structure of the BSA doesn’t allow that, nor should it. The adults involved are nearly always laypeople. They too, shouldn’t be involved. But, the clergy is involved and should be involved in the spiritual lives of the Scout boys.
I’ve seen teen boys get caught up in the homosexual lifestyle who previously acted, spoke and talked normally prior. Then, once in the lifestyle, their mannerisms, speech patterns and behavior changed.
If it isn’t genetic then it is psychological and potentially chemical/biological in origin. It can be overcome and has been. It wouldn’t be appropriate for the other adults or children to do anything for this young person, but to show them Christlike love (agape).
It would be up to the clergy and the parents to decide on the best form of intervention. By getting it out of the dark, you don’t normalize it, although that could happen, instead you get a chance to fix it.
Satan wants to keep it in the dark and that’s where he can win. It’s an unhealthy lifestyle - physically, mentally and spiritually. I don’t know a parent, including those with honmosexual children, that would want their kid to be a homosexual. They love their kids, but not their lifestyle.
In addition having it out in the open is consistent with the YPT we received. If I saw an openly homosexual Scout behaving inappropriately or pursuing/grooming another Scout or being pursued/groomed by an adult leader, neither party could say, “we’re innocent”.
Wow, that is a whole lot of assumption and projection on your part.
Standing up against perversion is not silly it is commanded by God.
I never said that my church sponsored a scout troop. My troop is sponsored by the Moose Lodge. Again, you are assuming and projecting and more specifically, in error.
And when did I ever say that I would abandon a homosexual? Again, you are assuming and projecting. The truth is that I have worked with adult homosexuals and have maintained that their beliefs and desires are a perversion of Gods true love. That there is a better way and that they need to abandon their sin instead of reveling in it. It is the change of mind that is repentance that we are called to make. The problem that most who are morally depraved, is that they see no need to repent of their sin.
However, since the BSA policy change, I can no longer be in a position of leadership as such comments would be in direct violation with BSA policy. It is the BSA tacit approval and acceptance of homosexuality that creates an untenable position for the witnessing Therefore, since the scouts have abandoned the principles of duty to God and being morally straight, I will no longer associate myself with them.
Weak is not standing up for your principles or beliefs. Weak is compromising over and over again until there is nothing left to stand for. It is “acceptance” and “tolerance” that has lead this nation away from it’s great calling.
And yet again, you assume that I’m going to be shirtless. The fact is that I always wear a black t-shirt or polo under my scout shirt. Removing my scout shirt will merely be removing the outer layer. Really, please stop these assumptions and presenting them as straw men.
You also assume that no longer supporting or engaging with an organization that I now disagree with is somehow not “fighting”. Yet a boycott is a well known form of protest. And that is exactly what I am doing. I am boycotting by no longer GIVING my time or money to that organization. I suspect that the BSA will follow a similar trend as the Boy Scouts of Canada in that within a few years, they will be less than half of their current size. All because thousands of others like myself will also be boycotting them. In the end, the BSA will be but a shadow of itself. Yet caught up in their pride, they will not acknowledge that which they have lost.
Lastly, ask yourself these two questions-
Where do you draw the line? At gay leaders? What happens when a 17 year old scout turns 18? Now do we kick them out? how long do you think that will last. Mark my words, within a few years, there will be a push to allow gay scout leaders.
#2 - Between God and Satan, which of the two is going to be more accepting of perversion and sin? And then who’s side do you want to be on?
Just post the video. I really want to see your “act of defiance” because it sounds like something a lefty girl I used to know in college would do. She wore a black t-shirt too.
Anything to suport your Mormon faith, right?
There are those, and they’re found throughout God’s world, who believe themselves special and God a ‘respecter of persons’, but it isn’t so.
Think on it. If a sinner like you can be redeemed, why not a homosexual? Remember that God is sovereign and we’re made in his outline. Anyone can repent and in Jesus’ own words the very gates of Hades (the holding place of the dead) cannot stand against his redemptive power.
Enjoy your Sabbath Day and stop denying the power of God.
Consider all of the disruption that this has caused for hundreds of thousands of kids and families.
*Suddenly thousands of families have to make an abrupt change in their lives
*Kids who loved the schools cannot participate now
*Young boys as young as the Cub Scouts will have to be told by their parents that they cannot be a cub scout anymore
*Boys Scouts and Cub Scouts will have to be told why they cannot be part of the scouts anymore bringing up the distateful subject of homosexuality to little boys
*Friends will split up as some families will choose to stay as others decide to leave
*What will come next? Maybe lists of families who take their kids out so that they can be publicly shamed as the Massachusetts homosexuals did with the names of thousands of people who signed the voting petition to put same sex marriage on the ballot. Remember how that New York paper printed the names and addresses of gun owners? The left is out for blood. They have found a formula that works and they will continue to use it until there is pushback.
One form of pushback...not one dollar of our tax money for anything that is associated with the gay groups.
LGBT organizations gets lots of our tax money.
You wonder whether BSA president Wayne Perry may have a close relative who is homo. I think many prominent people who have sided with the homos have close relatives who are homo—look at Portman who came out to reveal his support for gay marriage because his son was gay. There must be top people in government, corporations and even religious institutions who have close relatives who are homosexual. The homos are taught to play on the sympathies of their families and relatives to get their way.
You are correct. Depending on which statistics you choose to beliew, homosexuals make up 2-4% of the U.S. population. If folks sat down and took the time to examine their extended families they would probably find at least 1 in the family tree. All the polls show that Americans, at least the younger ones, are far more tolerant of homosexuality. Since the Stonewall Riots in NYC during 1969, the homosexualists have been advancing their agenda. At some point society collapses. I compare it to how economists determine the length of a recession - they can't do it in real time. It is always determined after the fact. Sure, there are symptoms for all to see, but they have to crank the data to make it official.
I would be surprised if there are regular occurences of “homosexual parties” in the scouts, in either mormon-led or other-led troops.
And no doubt, many of the homosexuals who are currently involved in scouts are in the closet, at least so far as scouting is concerned.
The BSA has established their two-deep policy for many sound reasons.
Apparently, liberals love the idea of interfering in the doctor/patient relationship, except when they don’t.
If a kid wants to not be gay, I should hope they could get professional help for that. Apparently, abortions you can get in California, but if you want this treatment, you have to go out of state.
I’d love to see the Supreme Court rule on whether therapy is a fundamental right and that kids have the right to get whatever therapy they want without government intrusion.