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Teacher Faces 1 Year In Prison, Job Loss, For Protecting Children with Concealed-Carry
http://www.mrconservative.com ^ | may 25, 2013 | Katie Kieffer

Posted on 05/26/2013 10:17:15 AM PDT by lowbridge

Kansas elementary school teacher Daniel Nagel faces a year in prison and job loss for going above and beyond the call of duty and protecting his students with his concealed-carry permit.

-snip

On Monday, May 20, Dan was teaching gym and carrying his handgun in an inside-the-waistband hip holster. So, there was zero chance that his gun would fall out of his holster or hurt his students and a 100 percent chance that Daniel could defend his students if a gunman breached the school. Daniel is highly competent with firearms; he practices at the range monthly and also takes yearly classes to advance his firearm skills.

Another teacher observed what must have been the silhouette of Daniel’s handgun beneath his clothes while he was actively teaching his students. This teacher-observer panicked and told the principal that Daniel had a gun. Without investigating, the principal immediately called the police. Despite the fact that Daniel is a concealed-carry permit holder with a spotless record, the police arrested him for carrying in a “gun free zone.”

A few police officers tried to remove Daniel’s gun from his holster and were unable so Daniel had to tell them how. Which, again, speaks to how secure Daniel’s gun was at his side. To reiterate, there was no chance that his gun would endanger children; there was a very large chance that Daniel could use his gun to save their lives. The Wichita Police Department is a 12-minute drive and seven miles away from White Elementary. In the event of a mass attack, hundreds of defenseless children and teachers could be killed before the cops would arrive.

(Excerpt) Read more at mrconservative.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: banglist; democrats; guncontrol; gunfreezone; guns; kansas; rapeofliberty; secondamendment; sourcetitlenoturl; waronliberty
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1 posted on 05/26/2013 10:17:15 AM PDT by lowbridge
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To: lowbridge

Why am I all too oft tempted to say..

‘’ I hate what this country has become. ‘’

Thanks for posting this.


2 posted on 05/26/2013 10:18:54 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: lowbridge

But it’s OK to have sex with the little darlings, right? /s


3 posted on 05/26/2013 10:21:54 AM PDT by llevrok (2013: - Obama vs America. The new cold war)
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To: lowbridge
What are the chances the DA or the Judge will have a lucid moment and kill this prosecution?

yeah, slim and none.

4 posted on 05/26/2013 10:22:14 AM PDT by theDentist (FUBO; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: theDentist

And Slim just left town. Seriously though, this guy is a moron. He knows there are laws and rules and he consciously breaks both. Then he let’s someone spot his gun.... Stupid, stupid, stupid.


5 posted on 05/26/2013 10:24:19 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: lowbridge

How odd
In April of this year Gov. Sam Brownback signed a bill allowing Kansas employees of public schools and colleges to carry concealed weapons, the Lawrence Journal-World reports.

Guess the teacher should have checked with the Principal before carrying.

He may be in jail, out of a job and have no teaching certificate before the summer is over...


6 posted on 05/26/2013 10:27:27 AM PDT by ASOC (What are you doing now that Mexico has become OUR Chechnya?)
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To: lowbridge

The left is nothing but a bunch of pansies. They would rather have kids murdered than be around a gun.

I hate what this country has become.


7 posted on 05/26/2013 10:27:30 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Pi$$ed off yet?)
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To: lowbridge

I would hope he appeals this all the way to the Supremes. The Gun Free Zones are unconstitutional and are magnets for psycho/criminals to go on a shooting spree. This law needs to be repealed.


8 posted on 05/26/2013 10:27:33 AM PDT by Snow Eagle ("... Against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC")
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To: Lurker

Lesson learned. If you’re going to C&C, do a better job of concealing it when in liberal zones.


9 posted on 05/26/2013 10:28:00 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: lowbridge

Politically correct agitated wimps now make policy. Ordinary people suffer.


10 posted on 05/26/2013 10:29:14 AM PDT by allendale
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To: theDentist

It is commendable that the guy was carrying a hand gun for protection of the school!
But on the other hand he did break the law and cause a panic incident. He knew the law as a concealed carry person. Until that law is repealed or changed it has to be obeyed. No one at the school could have even given him permission to carry.
Tough consequences but the law is the law!


11 posted on 05/26/2013 10:30:16 AM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: lowbridge

This guy should remember the Nazi’s are out there trying to make brownie points with the Gestapo..


12 posted on 05/26/2013 10:33:04 AM PDT by PLD
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To: lowbridge

In many areas, employees may leave their privately owned firearm locked in their vehicle in a school parking lot. I don’t know if this law applied in his jurisdiction.

If he’s got a conceal carry permit then he knew the rules. He made a poor choice and he’ll pay for it.


13 posted on 05/26/2013 10:34:46 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: ASOC

The teacher should get in touch with the ACLJ..They are the Christian lawyers that have suits against the IRS..


14 posted on 05/26/2013 10:36:40 AM PDT by PLD
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To: lowbridge

Jury nulification, it’s widely known to be used in the black community. It’s openly discussed. It’s time we start using it too.
Keep your personal views hidden during selection. Then vote not guilty, deliberate and argue as long as they want. (they’ll remove you and replace you with the alternate for “failure to deliberate”) Stay there and argue your point.

There are enough gun owners that trivial gun “crimes” like this should never win a conviction.


15 posted on 05/26/2013 10:44:46 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Conserev1

So, are the police expected to disarm when they visit a school?

Your statement falls on its face for the lack of logic.

He has (had) a CC “permit”.

I’ll lay odds of 9:2 that he’s a better shot with his sidearm than the top shooter on that force.

His sidearm was NOT seen, but a silhouette UNDER HIS SHIRT was SUSPECTED by someone in the employee area.

His sidearm was so well secured that he had to INSTRUCT the cop on how to remove it from its holster.

This defines unwarranted persecution, and you stand there cheering the JBT’s.

Gotta go battery dead


16 posted on 05/26/2013 10:45:29 AM PDT by Don W (There is no gun problem, there is a lack of humanity problem!)
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To: Conserev1
Until that law is repealed or changed it has to be obeyed

No it doesn't. Every American has a duty to ignore unconstitutional laws.

17 posted on 05/26/2013 10:47:01 AM PDT by Ajnin (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnocet!)
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To: Ajnin

Yes, and a duty to vote to acquit. Their laws become meaningless unenforceable junk if juries refuse to convict.


18 posted on 05/26/2013 10:49:58 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Ajnin

I guess that’s all fine and dandy and you can do your duty behind bars. 55 mile an hr speed limit may be unconstitutional as well but drive 105mph and see what happens!


19 posted on 05/26/2013 10:51:36 AM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: Lurker
Yeah a truly smart individual would follow the rules and say "if only I had my gun," after an event happens and there's 30 more dead children at a school. Kind of like that woman who saw her parents gunned down at Luby's in TX all those years ago.....she now travel the country giving pro-gun speeches and explaining that if she'd had her gun, which would've been illegally concealed, her parents would not have been gunned down.

At some point people in this country need to wake up and realize that maybe, just maybe, the rules/laws our "betters" set for us aren't in our best interest. I have little hope of that though because many are content to be sheep.

For another example - I building I worked in had a door in which to open (whether entering or departing) you had swipe a badge with a magnetic strip. According to the rules, only one person was able to go through at a time. If you were exiting, there was a green button that was labeled to indicate pushing the button automatically unlocked the door.

One day, the fire alarms started going off; flashing lights, sirens, buzzers, the whole nine yards. You could smell burning electronics. As I made my way to the exit, I saw a line of about 30 people, each diligently allowing the door to slowly shut after the individual in front of them passed through.......then they would swipe their badge and pass.

I told them "you can burn in an orderly fashion if you want to, but this is here for a reason," as I pushed the button and exited with 6 of my co-workers. Dutifully the individual who was rightfully next to exit, allowed the door to close behind us before swiping his badge to exit.

They had been hounded and expressly informed at the the badge in/out and one-at-a-time rules.........it overrode common sense because they'd not been told what to do in a fire/emergency. But at least thy followed the rules.

20 posted on 05/26/2013 10:53:11 AM PDT by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Don W

Didn’t they arrest a kid for drawing a gun and disarm him?


21 posted on 05/26/2013 10:53:22 AM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: Snow Eagle
The Gun Free Zones are unconstitutional and are magnets for psycho/criminals to go on a shooting spree.

I am not sure that is true. The Second Amendment does not say "the right to keep and bear arms ANYWHERE shall not be infringed," as one clearly has the choice to decide not to go where they are forbidden without having the right to carry infringed. In the days of the Founders, there were places "gentlemen" did not take their weapons. Said weapons were also slow to implement and unlikely to be concealable. So, to clarify your post, is there anywhere a person should not be allowed to carry? What about on the private property of another? What about the Senate chamber or the SCOTUS? Are you really thinking that the Black Panthers should be able to carry their AR-15s into the SCOTUS chambers? Even with armed guards present, just one of them could knock off three justices before anyone else could take him down. Let's say it was Scalia, Thomas, and Alito... What would you say then with Zero naming their replacements? Have you really thought this through?

22 posted on 05/26/2013 10:54:43 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (An economy is not a zero-sum game, but politics usually is.)
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To: ASOC

They refer to the legislation as “Senate Substitute for HB 2052”. It says the law will be effective on July 1, 2013.

I believe that much of the language in gun legislation is difficult to understand. Sometimes it is not cleared up until a case relevant to the law is decided by the state supreme court.

Here’s an example of language from this new law in Kansas. . .

“No city, county or other political subdivision of this state shall regulate, restrict or prohibit the carrying of concealed hand guns by persons licensed under this act except as provided in section 2, and amendments thereto, and in subsection (b) of K.S.A. 2012 Supp. 75- 7c10, and amendments thereto, and subsection (f) of K.S.A. 21-4218, prior to its repeal, or subsection (e) of K.S.A. 2012 Supp. 21-6309, and amendments thereto.”
.
.
.
S Sub for HB2052 page at Kansas legislature. . .

http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/hb2052/

Summary of bill. . .

http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/documents/summary_hb_2052_2013.pdf

Text of bill S Sub for HB2052. . .

http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/documents/hb2052_enrolled.pdf


23 posted on 05/26/2013 11:00:44 AM PDT by deks ("...the battle...liberty against the overreach of the federal government" Ken Cuccinelli)
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To: Conserev1

“he did...cause a panic incident.”

No, the “observer” and the principal did by overreacting.


24 posted on 05/26/2013 11:00:48 AM PDT by beelzepug (Telling other people they need to die is a good way to get your own lamp blown out.)
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To: Ajnin

Probably not a constitutional issue, but one of employment law. As a condition of employment, he no doubt was required to adhere to rules that he was fully aware of, and certainly he had knowledge of the gun restriction.


25 posted on 05/26/2013 11:08:28 AM PDT by stormer
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To: beelzepug

And I guess the observer and or the principle knows the mental state of this person 24 hrs a day? Granted there should have been some discussion but, with all due respect the Teacher brought the weapon to a gun free zone!


26 posted on 05/26/2013 11:09:29 AM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: Snow Eagle
I would hope he appeals this all the way to the Supremes. The Gun Free Zones are unconstitutional and are magnets for psycho/criminals to go on a shooting spree. This law needs to be repealed.

If I were on his jury, I'd nullify the law.

27 posted on 05/26/2013 11:09:42 AM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: Conserev1

“.....the law is the law!”

You mean like, “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”? -”SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”-


28 posted on 05/26/2013 11:10:36 AM PDT by Gator113 ( ~just keep livin~ I drink good wine, listen to good music and dream good dreams.)
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To: Repeat Offender
They had been hounded and expressly informed at the the badge in/out and one-at-a-time rules.........it overrode common sense because they'd not been told what to do in a fire/emergency. But at least thy followed the rules.

These were rules to which both parties had agreed without contemplating the consequences. All such questions are matters of relative risk. If they were researchers with potentially deadly bacteria or genetically modified pollen requiring containment on their barrier protection clothing, they can't simply run out with the building on fire.

In a similar story, I remember an incident in which there was an arsene gas leak in a fab back in the very early days of the semiconductor industry. The evacuation order was given, but there was no way everybody was going to be able to get out in time. The engineer, after calling the evacuation order, went back into the fab, closed the valve, and died. I'm sure that wasn't on his contract and guarantee that it was contrary to the company's published safety rules.

The point to my more than somewhat skew example is that no rules, not even the Second Amendment, can cover every predictable contingency rationally: there will always be exceptional circumstances. Nor is it possible to design language for a constitutional document that can explain the limits to its principles without becoming a legal can of worms. The Founders wrote these laws expecting the people to be rational. Yet after 100 years of government cultivating irrational behavior, and even longer with technology complicating the risks at issue, here we are.

29 posted on 05/26/2013 11:14:22 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (An economy is not a zero-sum game, but politics usually is.)
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To: Conserev1
Stupid laws should be broken.

/johnny

30 posted on 05/26/2013 11:15:35 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Gator113

Hey I am an advocate of the 2adm but he also skirted the conceal carry law by allowing the weapon to be seen.
I would feel safe with the guy having the hand gun but others might not and that was the law at the time of the infraction!
I feel sorry for the guy but he has to take responsibility for his actions!


31 posted on 05/26/2013 11:19:20 AM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: lowbridge

I wonder what would have happened if that same school was attacked and he happened to turn back the attack because he was armed.

Will he still be a goat or will he be a hero?


32 posted on 05/26/2013 11:27:59 AM PDT by 353FMG ( I do not say whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: lowbridge

Concealed means “CONCEALED”!!


33 posted on 05/26/2013 11:43:31 AM PDT by G Larry (Darkness Hates the Light)
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To: Conserev1
"Until that law is repealed or changed it has to be obeyed."

I respectfully disagree for a number of good reasons. But mainly I am reminded of the excuse given by the nazis during the Nuremberg trials.

34 posted on 05/26/2013 11:50:33 AM PDT by semaj
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To: semaj
dead horse photo: dead horse dead_horse.gif Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
35 posted on 05/26/2013 11:54:12 AM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: Conserev1

It is certainly important to keep a CC weapon “concealed”. Of course, that can be very difficult at times. This is why I carry a Seecamp LWS32. I carry it in a wallet type holster that makes it invisible.

As for the law is the law, is the law, is the law.... I remain with our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.


36 posted on 05/26/2013 12:04:21 PM PDT by Gator113 ( ~just keep livin~ I drink good wine, listen to good music and dream good dreams.)
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To: Repeat Offender

No way you could see my little Kel-tec .380 in my pocket, loaded with hollow-points.

Kel-tec, made in FL, guaranteed for life.


37 posted on 05/26/2013 12:49:31 PM PDT by bicyclerepair (0bama is a POS, with all due respect to excrement.)
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To: lowbridge
How about a RADICAL suggestion.

FIRE the person who turned him in.

38 posted on 05/26/2013 1:04:33 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: Conserev1
he did break the law

Bingo. He knew it was against the law and he got caught. I recently graduated (for the third time) from college. I likewise am not allowed to carry on school property.

What? We don't have to obey laws with which we disagree?

39 posted on 05/26/2013 1:07:20 PM PDT by LouAvul (In a state of disbelief as to how liberals destroyed America in a mere 40 years.)
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To: LouAvul

Yes, un-Constitutional laws are null and void. Shall not be infringed. The natural right of self-defense doesn’t come from government and it doesn’t disappear in school zones, just like atrocities don’t magically not happen in school zones. But be a good little serf and follow policies. As I’m sure there’s all kinds of rules and regulations regarding blade lengths, blackjacks, mace, blah blah blah. And then we get Virginia tech with massive death toll, while the “only ones” the police ran outside from tree to tree scared not entering building. Nope, unacceptable.


40 posted on 05/26/2013 1:15:15 PM PDT by TheBigJ
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To: TheBigJ

Fine. Open carry into a post office and let me know how that works out for you.


41 posted on 05/26/2013 4:04:27 PM PDT by LouAvul (In a state of disbelief as to how liberals destroyed America in a mere 40 years.)
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To: Carry_Okie
This was an office building; not a bio-chem lab.....not some area where pushing the large green button, that was clearly labeled, and exiting would lead to some catastrophic 2nd or 3rd order effect.......an office building.
42 posted on 05/26/2013 4:10:30 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Conserev1; Ajnin

I didn’t know driving was covered in the Constitution. Could you point it out for me? There is however a clause “shall not be infringed” contained in the Constitution. You may want to familiarize yourself with it.


43 posted on 05/26/2013 4:27:57 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Repeat Offender

Your specific example was to illustrate a generalized case, as was mine.


44 posted on 05/26/2013 4:44:27 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (An economy is not a zero-sum game, but politics usually is.)
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To: LouAvul

Concealed has been workin just fine, thank you.


45 posted on 05/26/2013 4:49:55 PM PDT by TheBigJ
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To: Jonty30

If you cc, you will eventually be spotted. Trained eyes can spot you easily.


46 posted on 05/26/2013 4:50:32 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: Carry_Okie

So where is Free Speech prohibited? Where can one be held a slave?


47 posted on 05/26/2013 5:00:31 PM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: The_Media_never_lie

Yeah maybe if they have x-ray eyes, otherwise, no.


48 posted on 05/26/2013 5:21:36 PM PDT by TheBigJ
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To: PLMerite
So where is Free Speech prohibited?

In any courtroom. Just ask the judge.

Where can one be held a slave?

In prison.

49 posted on 05/26/2013 5:23:46 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (An economy is not a zero-sum game, but politics usually is.)
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To: lowbridge

At most the teacher should lose his job for violating a school policy, and should now be filing a lawsuit for violating his civil rights.

It’s the same as employers not letting employees have guns on premises or stored in cars.

“gun free zones” should never have been accepted after travesties like Columbine. There are teachers all over armed. My science teacher lady in junior high was armed and all the teachers knew about it.

If we had people with any balls in this country, that teacher would be protected by the militia, representatives who want to charge him with their diktats run out of the state, and any cops just “folllowing orders” given the same offering, otherwise shot down like dogs.


50 posted on 05/26/2013 5:29:12 PM PDT by TheBigJ
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