Skip to comments.Area churches debate BSA decision on gay Scouts
Posted on 06/04/2013 8:23:34 AM PDT by T-Bird45
Tulsas largest United Methodist church is considering dropping its scouting program after the Boy Scouts of America decided to allow homosexual boys to participate.
Were leaning in that direction. I dont know exactly what well do, said the Rev. Tom Harrison, senior pastor of Asbury United Methodist Church, 6767 S. Mingo Road.
The Boy Scouts decision can be troubling for troop-sponsoring churches whose denominations oppose the practice of homosexuality.
The United Methodist Church, a major supporter of Boy Scouts, has maintained that the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.
We find this to be a very troubling decision, Harrison said.
(Excerpt) Read more at tulsaworld.com ...
I am now undertaking the effort to disentangle myself from AT&T, a major financial extorter behind this move by the BSA. Just yesterday, I cancelled an order for uVerse TV/Internet by them and now I need a home for my iPhones. Any suggestions???
As to the local BSA group in Tulsa, I have a commitment this fall with them that I will honor but will have to decline to support them in the future. My United Way contribution is going elsewhere, too. I'll do a one-time gift of a nominal amount to support my organization's effort but no more monthly giving.
Did the leadership not anticipate a backlash? Did they not care? Stunning!
I don’t see what there is to debate.
They are now ruled by sodomites. And the goal of the sodomites is to tear down every conservative organization. They WANT the scouts to fail.
Only active print or digital subscribers of the Tulsa World are allowed to post comments
The subscribers are majority liberals. Conservatives mostly loathe newspapers, as they are mostly leftist propaganda and agitation. It's the same with virtually every major newspaper. They attract liberal fascists like flies. Both as employees and readers.
Response: There is no debate on the issue. That is one of the great issues causing America's decline: "Debate," "Discussion," and "Different points of view." Some things are simply not debateable for to "debate" is to implicitly state that the opposition position has merit, there is something to debate!
The real mistake is not reaching out to these openly ‘gay’ Scouts and ministering to them. We’ve been handed a golden opportunity. It’s political judo for us. We can flip this whole issue by ‘curing’ kids of homosexuality and exposing the molesters who started it or environments in which homosexuality thrives.
I’m an active subscriber mostly for business reasons but also for the occasional pleasure of posting comments to keep the libs stirred up. Assuming you can read the comments as a non-subscriber, look for me in the forum as Bart78. For the most part, the Tulsa World keeps it straight in the news pages but goes lefty on the editorial pages. However, their endorsements have included Republicans multiple times in races of every level.
the comments have the usual vicious and vile homosexuals ranting; hate, fury, insult, insulting Christianity, all the talking points re: ‘The Bible doesn’t reaslly condemn homosexuality’ and ad hominem attacks on other commentors.
BUT -— all the commentors are making the basic mistake: it’s not about homosexual INDIVIDUALS but it’s about the big, wealthy, powerful gay organizatyions, which ave infiltrated the top ranks of almost all traditional organizations everywhere; the churches, the federal government, YM/YWCA, Boy Scouts, and many more. They infiltrate and do hostile takeovers. They are wallowing in money.
I have made this point over and over but few people get it. You will look vile and mean if you continue to attacks gays and lesbians as INDIVIDUALS. We should be taking a close look at the big gay ORGANIZATIONS.
There, I shouted.
Either that, or they're bigger loudmouths...
the comments are done by paid left wing trolls.
Move on and other groups pay to have trolls and to sign up in multiple usernames and then post on various local papers and yes that includes not their locqal places but pretending to be in that town or city and ten pretending to say they have donated so much but will not anymore or they go to church but will not anymore or they are republican but they have got to extreme and they will now voted Dem\\\\
The left always and I mean always try to give the impression that they are a majority when infact many of their groups are worked by about 15 people up in a Boston office under about 50 group names
Are you joking? Homosexuals have support organizations beyond belief. Some nattering at them at a Scout meeting is totally ridiculous.
There are gay activist summer camps (run by Gay/Straight Alliance in California, which accepts gay/lesbian kids as young as fourteen — is this not illegal?)(and many, manyh others run by other homosexual organizations) teaching them how to take over at their school, their churches.
there is gay rodeo, gay baseball, gay square-dancing, gay/lesbian garden clubs, sewing clubs, and on and on.
This is how we came to slaughter 1-3 million innocent babies in the womb each year.
God in Heaven will not forever sit back and let these things pass.
Just change the name to NAMBSLA and be done with it
What’s to debate? Get out now. The BSA lost my support the minute they voted. I kicked the United Way to the curb 30 years ago.
Going against your church again, Jeff?
Good point on paid trolls, should have considered that.
I sent that same letter to my Stake President and Bishop, both of whom are men I have known for over 15 years, worked together with, and respect. If I were called into the Young Men's organization, I would accept the call, and would call homosexual youth to repent and give their deviant/sinful life-style over to Christ, just the same as I would call a young man who was fornicating to repentance.
If asked to work in Scouts, I would do so with the same attitude...which measn the BSA would not like it and may themselves remove me...but I do not believe my church leaders would.
Anyhow, such is life in southwest Idaho.
I wrote simply my letter to the Boy Scouts and and informed them of the truth of my position and why.
Where did those BIGOTs!! ever get an idea like that???
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.
2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
But there IS hope!!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
Yes they do.
And, I would suppose, that words of LDS scripture have meaning as well; yet the biggest group of MORMONs, based in Salt Lake City, have decided to ignore them.
More than that; it has decided to EXCOMMUNICATE those that DO follow the words found in Doctrines & Covenants 132:58-66
Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained:
Plural marriage is not essential to salvation or exaltation. Nephi and his people were denied the power to have more than one wife and yet they could gain every blessing in eternity that the Lord ever offered to any people. In our day, the Lord summarized by revelation the whole doctrine of exaltation and predicated it upon the marriage of one man to one woman. (D. & C. 132:128.) Thereafter he added the principles relative to plurality of wives with the express stipulation that any such marriages would be valid only if authorized by the President of the Church. (D. & C. 132:7, 2966.)
(Seems like the Elder has a bit of a conflict with what a Living Prophet® has proclaimed:
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
That's why I have a red pen; to mark up the lies and distortions in the paper for the NEXT person who finds it for FREE at the paper dispenser at a restaurant.
So therefore, by the example of God in Sodom, shouldn’t good Christians stay involved until all hope is lost? Jesus sought out sinners. The battle has just started and everybody’s ready to quit.
They could care less about our 'debate' as it merely wastes OUR time - as they ain't ABOUT to change.
Most have NO idea what the Scriptures say!
Keep reading; you lying scumbags!
No need to shout: just copy and print out the BIBLE's plain teaching on the matter and hand them out!!
(Don't you mean gods in heaven?)
It's well written, Jeff.
The battle has just started and everybodys ready to quit.
Oh, they have not!
Just the loud ones are getting the ink!
As I said, I let the BSA know exaclty what I think of their decision, what impact their decision has now had on my life-long donations to the BSA (as in they have stopped completely...immediately) and why I, a former scout, scout master, commmitte member, etc., etc. will not support the BSA any longer.
Anyhow, if you want to talk specifically about those issues, or church's making their decisions about their own response to the BSA's new ploicy..fine.
But please do not hijack this thread and create another "try and show everyone why you feel the LDS Church is wrong," threads. It's not what the thread is about.
If you do, it will simply devolve into one morethread where you and four or five of the same people post endless quotes over and over to each other.
Thanks...I see you are not going on and on about all of the quotes...so I readily withdraw my last post regarding the same.
I’d assume there is an LDS church in the area.
>>I’ve always found it hard to believe there are so many vociferous libs in such a red state.
In a red state, every lib is vociferous. That’s how they appear to be such a large group and its a great weapon when used against the usually-silent conservatives.
But Everyone 'knows' that I am obsessed...
By allowing Sodomites in the Scouts there is too much danger of it spreading to the healthy portion of society.
That's ok; I'm not mortally wounded.
We were both at Jarbidge before the LDS/Christianity debate got really heated on FR; so we DO have some common areas of agreement.
It was quite possibly some of your very own replies on FR that educated me as to the shenanigans the gummint was pulling up there; so, by all accounts: you owe me gas money!
The problem with accepting gay “boys” is that Boy Scouts can be as young as 11 and old as 18. A 17 or 18 year gay “boy” can be a fearsome and imposing authority figure to an 11 or 12 year old.
When the BSA first announced their decision to accept gay boys but not gay men, it seemed somewhat reasonable (even though we all know that the next big “civil rights issue” will be the acceptance of gay scoutmasters.
But, as I thought about my BSA experience, I remembered how those high school boys were idolized by the middle school boys when I first joined scouts. Do we really want our middle school age boys exposed to young gay men, who have the legal immunity of being juveniles and the hormones of adolescence???
This was not about helping boys from the BSA standpoint. It was about retaining large doners from corporate concerns and trying to avoid negative press. And in so doing, they walked, IMHO, right into the spider's web.
I preidct, within 5 years there will be a HUGE outcry against the BSA to demand that these now 20-25 year old Gay Eagle Scouts be allowed to be leaders in the Scout organization because they have done everything by the book in becoming "stellar," scouts and they should not be "denied," the right to help other scouts do the same.
Trap and bait were set...and gobbled up. We're all going to wait and see the trap sprung in the future. Sad...sickening actually.
I'd actually say that we have far more in common and unites us than the other. But...I have always said that.
As to Jarbidge...hehehe...I could turn it around and say that you owe me by waking you up to it and getting you motivated to get your carcass over there!
As it is, we have to keep fighting these certifiable bastards like Obama and his ilk. Until the Lord returns, we will know no rest in that regard. But as the Apostle Paul was so good at pointing out, that is fine. It is the good fight.
And as my own acnestors in the Revolution in this country were fond of saying to the likes of the King then...and it applies to these thugs today...NO KING BUT KING JESUS!
Of course they expected a backlash.
4/19/2013 - The BSAs National Executive Committee (~23 voting members) unanimously approved and released its membership standards resolution, which proposed removing the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone and maintaining the current membership policy for all adult leaders of the BSA. Under the new proposal, there is a national standard and no local option.
Key Findings - excerpts
51% of major donors support the current policy while 33% oppose it. But a majority of Fortune 500 companies want to see the policy changed.
The summary of findings said a policy change would cost the Scouts a minimum of 100,000 to 350,000 (13.5%) members. It is believed any gain in membership because of a change to the membership policy related to youth and adults would be in the range of 10,000 to 20,000 (<1%) youth.
>>I preidct, within 5 years there will be a HUGE outcry against the BSA to demand that these now 20-25 year old Gay Eagle Scouts be allowed to be leaders in the Scout organization because they have done everything by the book in becoming “stellar,” scouts and they should not be “denied,” the right to help other scouts do the same.
It won’t be 5 years. It will take one or two years before they demand that the gay boys need role models who “understand their unique needs” and the call for gay scoutmasters will go up. There are gay boys in the pipeline for Eagle already and now they can out themselves and come out flaming!
I did read your letter and acknowledge that you mentioned the age difference, but I wanted to point out the exact nature of how that age difference will be seen by the younger boys. The left keeps saying that they’re all “just boys” and no one on our side is willing to graphically talk about the differences between a 17 year old and a 12 year old.
Why sure, some of the most vociferious liberals one will ever see are in KY, but they say it is a “red state”.
Also, my letter states specifically:
"The homosexual community is now going to recruit 16-17 year old boys to become open members of the scouting organization. I do not want my 12-14 year old grandsons, or any other youth exposed to such individuals on campouts. Plain and simple. It is not worth the risk.
If you think this will not be discussed at camp out and events, and that such kids will not promote that life-style to other scouts through their conversations...you are deluding yourselves."
>>Well, if it is two years...two years is still “within five years,” stated by my prediction. So the prediction holds.
OK. You win. I retract all my statements and bow to your awesomeness.
No need to act like that. I believe we essentially agree. I am not looking for “awesomeness,” or anything remotely similar. Too old for that...and been through 5 teenage kids of my own who thoroughly disabused me of any such notions long ago.
For those looking for alternatives to the Boy Scouts, here’s a good list of options.
Conservative Boy Scout Alternatives
Bookmarked for later reference.
Nice to see a United Methodist church taking a conservative stance. Maybe, in Tulsa, that shouldn’t surprise me.
Stop and come back to reality. A kid attending Scouts sponsored by a conservative, Godly church who then ‘admits/confesses’ he’s a ‘homosexual’ is?:
A. Crying out for help and guidance away from sin.
B. Looking to troll the troop and convert more Scouts to homosexuality.
How wimpy and sissified are modern Christians that we’re afraid of a confused kid? Christians have been martyred and physically killed and many in the world still are and here we are hangwringing because some 12-17 year old comes ‘out’?
It’s a grand opportunity to live the Christian life and maybe help save souls.
Every kid you turn around and help straighten out destroys the agenda of the Pink Mafia.
Ok; we're even!