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'I Was Born This Way'
American Thinker ^ | June 9, 2013 | Clayton E. Cramer

Posted on 06/09/2013 8:20:56 AM PDT by neverdem

One of the more effective arguments used by those arguing for same-sex marriage and sexual orientation anti-discrimination laws is that homosexuals have no choice in the matter -- that sexual orientation is something that you are born with, and you can't change it. The claim is that this is a natural part of human variability, no different from skin color or hair color or how tall you are. As an acquaintance -- a generally conservative, gay high power rifle shooter (talk about being a member of the world's smallest cross-section of identity groups) told me once, "Why would anyone choose to be gay?"

There is pretty persuasive evidence that what determines sexual orientation, at least for some homosexuals, is environmental. At a minimum, the evidence of a connection between being sexually abused as a child and homosexual or bisexual orientation as an adult is so widespread that the refusal of the scientific community to seriously consider a causal connection suggests a willful blindness.

The paper "Sexual Abuse, Sexual Orientation, and Obesity in Women," published in the Journal of Women's Health, examined the relationship between obesity and lesbianism -- a relationship that has long been recognized but never systematically explored. What the researchers found was that lesbians in their sample of women over 35 were more likely than the heterosexual women to have a "previous mental health diagnosis" and to be well-educated, and significantly more likely to be obese (40.2% compared to 30.4%). Most importantly, lesbians were almost twice as likely as matched heterosexual women to be have been victims of "intrafamilial" child sexual abuse (CSA), and more than twice as likely to be victims of extrafamilial CSA. Suddenly, the wall of fat that is one stereotype of lesbianism makes a lot of sense -- something to drive away men, and...

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: childsexualabuse; csa; cultureofcorruption; eugenics; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; junkscience; lavendermafia; pseudoscience; sexpositiveagenda
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Clayton E. Cramer helped in debunking Arming America by Michael A. Bellesiles! So says the first paragraph at Wikipediia! This looks like war.
1 posted on 06/09/2013 8:20:56 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Want to make a liberal’s brain explode. . .especially a homosexual liberal?

Just say that IF a gay gene is discovered, would they support unrestricted abortion of homosexual babies?

After all, they support unrestricted babies for any other reason, why not sexuality.


2 posted on 06/09/2013 8:27:05 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: neverdem

The idea that homosex is natural is beyond ridiculous. If it was the natural way we would not exit. If we did not procreate we would be extinct. If it was natural then it would exist through out nature in all creatures, it does not.If it was natural more then 1% of human population would be homosexual. If it was natural, then there would not be entire populations and cultures where it does not exist


3 posted on 06/09/2013 8:28:45 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I go to sign up for the American Revolution 2013 and the Crusades 2013?)
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To: neverdem
"Why would anyone choose to be gay?"

At the risk of sounding Clintonesque, that depends on the meaning of "be." You can "be" an alcoholic but never take a drink. You can "be" a philanderer and never touch another woman but your wife (unless you're Ted Kennedy). You can "be" a serial murderer but never lay a finger on another human being.

What you "are" and what you DO are two separate things. God has given us free will, the ability to choose those acts in which we engage, however tempting it is to engage in the WRONG ones. All the homo movement has done is make it easier to engage in acts that will damn your soul to hell, and make your time on earth a tawdry chain of obscene episodes, shorten your life, and propagate the myth of homosexual "normalcy."

Instead of giving in to abominable lusts, why not try to turn your life toward something positive, something that denies the sordid temptations of carnality and elevates you beyond the rut?

4 posted on 06/09/2013 8:28:54 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: neverdem

I have a relative who works with foster and troubled children. I hear a lot of stories of anonymous children passing through “the system” and the absolute common denominator among all is sexual abuse and broken families. The two go hand-in-hand.

If you want to statistically guarantee that a child will grow up to be a broken and troubled adult, then give them one (or no) parent, and have an adult sexually abuse them.


5 posted on 06/09/2013 8:34:22 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: neverdem

The cruelest irony is that the Democrats could care less about homosexuals. They support homosexuality because it is a means of population control.

Dear homosexuals: we conservatives want you to enjoy the fullness and richness of life that marriage to someone of the opposite sex brings. The Democrats don’t want you to reproduce. Which side cares more about you?


6 posted on 06/09/2013 8:36:12 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SECURE AMERICA

If the evolutionary process is true, the only way homosexuals are part of a natural process is for the purpose of ending a genetic line. It must be some sort of evolutionary mechanism to rid future generations of certain characteristics or traits. Baring the evolutionary explanation, the only remaining options are nurture and choice.


7 posted on 06/09/2013 8:38:45 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: neverdem
So, they were born with the gene to lisp, get in your face, over exaggerate gestures, be over the top flamboyant, wear bling and demand everyone's full attention?
8 posted on 06/09/2013 8:39:05 AM PDT by bgill (This post was mined before it was posted.)
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To: SECURE AMERICA

This is what I don’t understand. I am a male, I am attracted to women. The more curves, beauty, the better. I am not attracted to women that look like men. Yet male and female homosexuals have men that act like women and women that act like men. What is the point? If I am a male homosexual, shouldn’t I be attracted to a studly male instead of a flamming, limp wristed, Obama?

Open to an educated reply as why a woman would be attracted to a bull dyke wearing an “appliance” instead of a real biker dude?


9 posted on 06/09/2013 8:39:09 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: SECURE AMERICA

If there is a homosexuality gene, then it must be a defective mutation since it would not lead to the survival of a species.


10 posted on 06/09/2013 8:39:55 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: neverdem

In societies where the population is mostly naked, there is little sexual reaction to nudity.

But in a society where women’s faces are covered, there is a known sexual arousal when men see a woman’s face.

What arouses sexually is truly a learned thing, and can be modified. This is well-known, but ignored because it does not fit the “victimhood” argument.


11 posted on 06/09/2013 8:40:35 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: neverdem
I worked with a kid once long ago (he was a young adult, but a "kid" to me) who thought he was homo. I knew he was just terrified of women.

I only worked with him a few years and then moved, I don't know whatever became of him as it was the early 80's and the whole homo thing was just getting into full swing. He probably got sucked into it. Poor kid.

12 posted on 06/09/2013 8:41:37 AM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: PGR88

“At a minimum, the evidence of a connection between being sexually abused as a child and homosexual or bisexual orientation as an adult is so widespread that the refusal of the scientific community to seriously consider a causal connection suggests a willful blindness.”

What makes me confident in this diagnosis was independently coming to the same conclusion based on conversations with all of the homosexuals I knew, prior to having read any of the literature on the subject. One does, however, also need to add heterosexual nymphomaniacal obsessions into that as well. The tendency was dramatic and clear...with the few that did not fall directly into that being sons with a complete failure to bond with their father at all.


13 posted on 06/09/2013 8:47:50 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Gadsden1st
Open to an educated reply as why a woman would be attracted to a bull dyke wearing an “appliance” instead of a real biker dude?

Homos are attracted to the perversion more than the natural procreative tools God provides. The more perverted, the better, in their sick minds. This is why homosexuality and pedophelia often mix and why homosexuals adopting children is putting those children at a heightened risk of sexual abuse.

14 posted on 06/09/2013 8:49:15 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: neverdem
"Why would anyone choose to be gay?" mental illness and or perversion...
15 posted on 06/09/2013 8:55:20 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: neverdem

I knew identical twins in college. 1 is gay and the other isn’t.


16 posted on 06/09/2013 8:57:19 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: luckystarmom

The identical twin studies disprove heritability.


17 posted on 06/09/2013 8:59:53 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Gadsden1st

‘If I am a male homosexual, shouldn’t I be attracted to a studly male instead of a flamming, limp wristed, Obama?’

The Homosexual men are attracted to studly males...but most of the homosexual men are of the ‘feminine type’.

Very few of the studly men are colon cowboys...


18 posted on 06/09/2013 9:00:12 AM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: neverdem
"'I Was Born This Way'..."

... To say that "ALL" are would be about as ridiculous as saying that all blind people are "Born that way." Some are.... some aren't. Not all variants can be contained within a single diagnosis.

19 posted on 06/09/2013 9:06:14 AM PDT by R_Kangel ( "A Nation of Sheep ..... Will Beget ..... a Nation Ruled by Wolves.")
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To: neverdem
a new model for homosexuality.
20 posted on 06/09/2013 9:06:43 AM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: neverdem
"Why would anyone choose to be gay?"

Why would anyone choose to rob banks? It's dangerous, you could get killed, you could spend 20 years in prison. But people choose to rob banks all the time. Why would anyone choose to have extra-marital sex (with the opposite sex)? You could get diseases, you could get caught and go through an expensive divorce, or maybe sued by your lover's spouse for alienation of affection and lose all your possessions. But people choose to do this all the time.

I think the only thing homos are in "love" with is their own erection. They are spoiled, weak-willed, undisciplined people who easily succumb to what feels good. No gene causes that.

21 posted on 06/09/2013 9:07:06 AM PDT by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: neverdem

I was on the fence about whether it was a choice or genetic.

Then one day I accidentally ran across a lesbian gathering at a local park.

They had this idiot techno music blaring with a male voice booming nonsense like “a typical male rapes an average of 4 women in his lifetime” and “a typical male does [blah] [blah] [blah]”

This went on for like 20 minutes at full volume over a speaker system. I gathered up my stuff to leave and as I walked past I was going to ask the ‘girls’ “Do you really believe this stuff?”

But the vibe I got was incredible- You could tell they were women (sort of) but they looked, sounded, and acted so male it was shocking. They had cut off t-shirts and jeans and work boots and short hair cuts you would SWEAR they were men (some of them) and they looked at me like they wanted to kill me so I just smiled and walked past and said “Hi Ladies” (it pays to be 6’5” sometimes)

I couldn’t quite hear what one of them said but it didn’t sound nice.

After that day I KNEW it was genetic. I am sure there are some who choose it, but man-o-man those girls definitely had way, way, way too many male hormones.


22 posted on 06/09/2013 9:07:40 AM PDT by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: Le Chien Rouge

That implies the preference is for studly males, but if that is the case, why would they develope lisps and skip down airplane stairs and have limp wrist? Since we can agree the behavior traits just mentioned are aquired and not genetic, why not develope or just allow male traits. It must take a lot of work to aquire hip swishes and head tosses, etc.

Logic says just act like the male they are and they would attract more action from gays. If a male wants a male why would he be attracted to a very poor copy of a female?


23 posted on 06/09/2013 9:09:21 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: blueunicorn6

I am convinced the libtards want to promote gays in the military because they want people with no moral character in charge with guns, that they control.

And some of these freaks, who hate normal people anyway, would gladly round up ‘straights’ at the point of a gun if ordered too.

And they promote each other from within, expect the military command to be homo soon (at least a small faction of it- like a Nazi SS squad, who have been rumored to be very homo)


24 posted on 06/09/2013 9:10:30 AM PDT by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: Gadsden1st

I think that a lot of gays, especially the men, are extremely narcissistic. They are attracted to men who look like them. With the women, there are a lot who seem to be born with a genetically defective body shape and find it easier to hook up with another woman than try to attract a man. I.e., the biker guy probably is not so interested in the sort of sack-like shape that a lot of lesbians have.


25 posted on 06/09/2013 9:14:09 AM PDT by angry elephant (Endangered species in Seattle)
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To: Hulka

Evil just wants to be included in with ‘what is good’ to be accepted - to the point that are desperate and they will do say or do anything. Evil travels under the guise of liberalism so it’s no wonder they push for it. And it travels with ‘demanding rights’ which brings abortion, etc, etc. etc.


26 posted on 06/09/2013 9:28:02 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: SECURE AMERICA

Indeed.

And if a person believes in God, then they know God made man and woman to serve two separate sexual functions.

If a person believes in evolution, then that person must agree that nature (natural)evolved man and woman to perform two separate sexual functions.

While being born with a bi-cuspid aorta valve in your heart may occur “naturally,” it is NOT normal.

Same can be said about homosexuals: Born that way? If we take that at face value then we can say, based on the above, it occurs naturally but is not normal.


27 posted on 06/09/2013 9:36:09 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: blueunicorn6
The cruelest irony is that the Democrats could care less about homosexuals. They support homosexuality because it is a means of population control.

Or maybe for the votes, but I agree with your post otherwise.

28 posted on 06/09/2013 9:45:01 AM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
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To: luckystarmom

I married a twin who had a gay brother.


29 posted on 06/09/2013 9:45:40 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: neverdem

Born or recruited, makes no difference to me as long as you KEEP IT OUT OF MY FACE.

HOMOSEXUAL, because there’s nothing GAY about it.


30 posted on 06/09/2013 9:48:09 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Auntie Dem

Exactly. A ‘bad’ thought may come but one either dismisses it or entertains it. Everyone is giving free will and it’s not in gene form - it’s a decision.


31 posted on 06/09/2013 9:51:40 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: neverdem

This doesn’t jibe with the sex positive agenda’s inroads into schools where they demand that children be allowed to express their FLUID sexual identity by referring to themselves as male somedays and female on other days.

The sex positive philosophers do not CARE why someone has such desires to engage in same sex relations, they seek to end ALL moral judgments over ALL sexual pairings, regardless of sex, age, relation, marital status, number, or species of partner(s).

They believe that orgasms are birthright to be enjoyed at every age. It is an uber hedonistic worldview. They despise the very concept of abstinence because it flies the face of their lifegoals.


32 posted on 06/09/2013 9:52:45 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: presently no screen name

According to feminists, sexologists, teachers, and doctors, there are no “bad thoughts”. Just religious dogma and social tradition that carries no weight.

Their agenda is funded by our tax dollars.


33 posted on 06/09/2013 9:54:04 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: reg45

Whether you take a biblical or a Darwinian perspective, its very difficult to call homosexuality “normal”. Also the psychological imprinting that occurs when a child is sexually molested and cultural factors (such as positive portrayal of homosexuality in the media ) far outweighs any purported genetic factor. The next goal on the homosexual agenda will be to abolish age of consent laws.


34 posted on 06/09/2013 10:04:26 AM PDT by allendale
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To: reg45
IMHO, I repeat, IMHO, the idea of a ‘gay gene’ provides an excuse: “I was born this way so I can't possibly change.”

My ex-BIL, divorced my SIL, after 6-8 years of marriage and a beautiful daughter, to go into the homosexual lifestyle.
This experience, of seeing him convert, and many unrelated experiences with many others convinced me that is truly a chosen lifestyle. Nothing more, nothing less, almost always traceable to their environment (which may have included sexual abuse or overly protective mothers).

35 posted on 06/09/2013 10:06:53 AM PDT by Tahoe3002
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To: blueunicorn6
They support homosexuality because it is a means of population control.

Liberals support it because it is evil. Whatever is evil they support it, enforce it. Abortion is one as is same sex marriage. Nor your own money isn't your own - others need it.

What is good is capitalism and Our Constitution. And we know where they stand on that unless it's for 'their' benefit.

Like pleading the 5th while she deliberately denied citizen groups their rights. It stems from power to push evil.

36 posted on 06/09/2013 10:16:27 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: neverdem

I’ve said it before: the “born-that-way” vs “environmental” argument about homosexuality is IRRELEVANT when it comes to things like “gay marriage”. For purposes of public policy, IT DOESN’T MATTER WHETHER THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY OR BECAME THAT WAY LATER. What matters is that it is a sexual disorder, and no sane society reorders its fundamental institutions to accommodate DISORDERED BEHAVIOR. Let the medical professionals and the academics debate whether its genetic or not. When it comes to public policy, NO ONE SHOULD CARE.


37 posted on 06/09/2013 10:34:28 AM PDT by fr_freak
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To: SECURE AMERICA

Schizophrenia and cystic fibrosis are natural. A lot of conditions or diseases with a hereditary component are both fitness-reducing and natural.

Homosexuals used to reproduce just fine - marry a woman and have children, carry on with boys on the side. The Afghans still do it that way and they have a high birthrate.


38 posted on 06/09/2013 10:47:32 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: Dutch Boy

How about mothers and sisters of male homosexuals have more children than women who are not related to a male homosexual? There are some studies suggesting this.

Sort of how the genes for cystic fibrosis or sickle cell anemia benefit the population but doom the double carrier.


39 posted on 06/09/2013 10:50:16 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: neverdem

I always like to mention the text book I read on sexual perversions several years ago. Wish I could remember the name of it.

There was an article in it on a young man drafted in WWII. His mother died when he was born, he was raised by all men way back in the Ozark hills and had never seen a woman.

When drafted the army knew something was strange about him so they gave him the standard homo tests.

They showed him a photo of naked women. No reaction.

They showed him photos of naked men. No reaction.

They didn’t know what to do with him till one Dr. showed the young man a photo of a cow. Instant reaction!

Now tell me he was “born that way”.


40 posted on 06/09/2013 11:01:13 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I always like to mention the text book I read on sexual perversions several years ago. Wish I could remember the name of it...Dreams of My Father?


41 posted on 06/09/2013 11:15:09 AM PDT by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: a fool in paradise

So what they say carries weight? Where did they get that ‘thought’ from?


42 posted on 06/09/2013 11:28:50 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

They have the positions of authority within academia and hospitals. Same as how “they” removed homosexual desires from the list of mental disorders.

Reich, Kinsey, and others pushed this mindset since the post-war years.


43 posted on 06/09/2013 11:33:57 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: a fool in paradise
Reich, Kinsey, and others pushed this mindset since the post-war years.

Right, evil had it's pawns in every generation since the beginning of time. All evil has it deception and intimidation. So the deception will come from the 'intellectuals' and their studies. And intimidation will come from the gov't to enforce it with you must obey or there are consequences.

44 posted on 06/09/2013 11:53:26 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: SECURE AMERICA

We are happy to use child sexual abuse as an excuse for the crimes of all our prison inmates, for bulimia, for alcoholism and drug addiction, hyper(hetero)sexuality, suicide, continuing the cycle of child sexual and physical abuse, domestic violence, and other disorders, but are legally forbidden to link it to homosexuality.

Power corrupts.


45 posted on 06/09/2013 12:09:42 PM PDT by DPMD
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To: Dutch Boy
If the evolutionary process is true, the only way homosexuals are part of a natural process is for the purpose of ending a genetic line. It must be some sort of evolutionary mechanism to rid future generations of certain characteristics or traits. Baring the evolutionary explanation, the only remaining options are nurture and choice.

The most common theory i've heard regarding this line of thought is that homosexuality genes produces a dead line for males, but it produces extraordinary fertility in females, and because of this, the genes more than make up for the deficit they cause when inherited by males.

I'm thinking there might be a genetic component in some cases, (effeminate males with effeminate personalities) but I think in many if not most cases, homosexuality is often the result of child abuse. One study i've seen asserted that 40% of homosexuals admit to being molested as children.

46 posted on 06/09/2013 12:13:36 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
What arouses sexually is truly a learned thing, and can be modified. This is well-known, but ignored because it does not fit the “victimhood” argument.

Oxytocin is a neuromodulator hormone that promotes bonding. Among other things, it is released during orgasm.

I think that a young person's first sexual experiences have a lot to do with their future orientation, and that same-sex molestation at an early age is a major factor in whether homosexual attraction is formed.

47 posted on 06/09/2013 12:13:59 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Show Me the Memo: Obama should share his legal justification for collecting Verizon's phone records

Liberals Can't Ignore the Verizon Phone Records Scandal (Al Gore outraged!)

The Smoking Gun in Plain Sight

Elevated Carbon Dioxide Making Arid Regions Greener a complete press release and link to the abstract

Elevated Carbon Dioxide Making Arid Regions Greener the thread

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

48 posted on 06/09/2013 12:15:07 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: Gadsden1st
Open to an educated reply as why a woman would be attracted to a bull dyke wearing an “appliance” instead of a real biker dude?

I think it might be the "wrongness" which makes it attractive to them. I think it is a sort of fetish to feel "wrongness" in their sexual activity. In many cases, a woman who thinks she likes women, often end up with men. Anne Heche is an example of this.

49 posted on 06/09/2013 12:17:47 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: lepton
“At a minimum, the evidence of a connection between being sexually abused as a child and homosexual or bisexual orientation as an adult is so widespread that the refusal of the scientific community to seriously consider a causal connection suggests a willful blindness.”

It suggests the recognition that openly talking about homosexual abuse of children as a factor, will end a researcher's career, and cause him to be hounded out of the profession by the Gay Mafia.

A similar fate awaits any researcher who dares to openly look at any correlation between race and IQ.

50 posted on 06/09/2013 12:21:19 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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