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Paul weighs Supreme Court challenge to NSA surveillance programs
The Hill's Blog Briefing Room ^ | June 9, 2013 | Meghashyam Mali

Posted on 06/09/2013 8:34:37 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Sunday said he would examine ways to block the National Security Agency’s surveillance programs before the Supreme Court.

“I'm going to be seeing if I can challenge this at the Supreme Court level,” vowed Paul on “Fox News Sunday.”

“I’m going to be asking all the internet providers and all of the phone companies: Ask your customers to join me in a class action lawsuit. If we get 10 million Americans saying we don’t want our phone records looked at then maybe someone will wake up and something will change in Washington,” he said.

A report in the Guardian last week revealed that the NSA had sought information on phone numbers, and the location and duration of calls to help identify potential terror threats. A separate program, PRISM, sought information on foreign Internet users from American tech companies.

The disclosures unleashed a firestorm of criticism at the Obama administration’s record on civil liberties, coming weeks after news that the Justice Department had seized reporter records in leak investigation and after the Internal Revenue Service admitted targeting Tea Party groups....

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: benghazi; fastandfurious; impeachnow; irs; nsa; obama; paul; rand; randpaul; surveillance
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1 posted on 06/09/2013 8:34:38 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I have a Verizon cell phone, I’d go along with this.


2 posted on 06/09/2013 8:37:05 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You will never be sure they’re not doing ongoing data collection. Regardless of what the supreme court decides.

Most people I talk to think the Patriot Act wasn’t the beggining of this.

All the Patriot Act did was make their ongoing data collection activities legal.

They’ve probably got dossiers on all of us since the 1950’s. At least. The development of digital technology just made it easier for them to do it.

I’d like to know what dossiers they have on minor children. And why.


3 posted on 06/09/2013 8:37:37 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If we get 10 million Americans saying we don’t want our phone records looked at then maybe someone will wake up and something will change in Washington,” he said.

That will be good for the unemployment rate. Think how many IRS agents they'll hire to audit 10 million Americans joining this class-action lawsuit.

4 posted on 06/09/2013 8:38:21 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Because the supreme court has worked so well lately.


5 posted on 06/09/2013 8:39:54 AM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: unixfox

EXACTLY! They will rule it is legal just like Omamacare and then where will we be?


6 posted on 06/09/2013 8:43:41 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Valerie to Barry: “Barry get the flunkies at the NSA to pull all the dirt on Rand Paul and those losers over the Supreme Court...and then have someone from the Cincinnati IRS give them each a phone call. Use back channels as always.”


7 posted on 06/09/2013 8:45:02 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (Get armed, get fit...get ready,)
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To: unixfox
because the SC has worked so well lately

Judging by the Sunday AM news shows, even a lot of liberals don't like the government spying and lack of openness. So, yeah a SC challenge would put it on the table, maybe stop the threat the Obama administration is making to prosecute leakers, and could maybe even win.

8 posted on 06/09/2013 8:45:21 AM PDT by grania
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To: RoosterRedux

9 posted on 06/09/2013 8:46:18 AM PDT by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If he feels it violates the Constitution, ya don't appeal to the Gov't 'court' for answer. You hold the persons in violation of the Constitution.
10 posted on 06/09/2013 8:46:47 AM PDT by Theoria
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
There's as much chance that the covert spying to control Patriots will EVER stop, as there is for any honest Election for the future (they ended in 2008).

They control the Horizontal.....they control the Vertical......

11 posted on 06/09/2013 8:47:26 AM PDT by traditional1 (Amerika.....Providing public housing for the Mulatto Messiah)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So let’s say this lawsuit happens. Who pays damages and how much?

seems to me it’s just the taxpayers paying. moving money from the left pocket to the right with lawyers getting a cut in between.


12 posted on 06/09/2013 8:47:50 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: grania

And if we lose?

Oh well?


13 posted on 06/09/2013 8:48:20 AM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Heh; that won’t stop them. Not in the least, Rand.


14 posted on 06/09/2013 8:49:25 AM PDT by carriage_hill (Guns kill people, pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk & spoons make you fat.)
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To: LostInBayport
Valerie to Barry:

"Yessss."

"Go ahead and send that photo to all recipients via a Richard Windsor email account. They'll get the general idea."

15 posted on 06/09/2013 8:50:50 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (Get armed, get fit...get ready,)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Wish they were as concerned with Benghazi as they are with this. We’ve known for years that big brother is watching us online. This is not a new revelation. This is just another distraction to pull away our attention from Benghazi, the real scandal.


16 posted on 06/09/2013 8:51:06 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I'm almost thinking that this is a diversion from the IRS and other data dipping.

And Obamacare is right around the corner.

My guess is that everyone will have to submit their bank accounts, income information, life insurance policy data, medical records etc etc.

This is about how they tap any resources that we have in the name of Obamacare...and it will go way beyond the "tax" that they will charge you.

17 posted on 06/09/2013 8:51:09 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: RoosterRedux
...pull the dirt on Rand Paul...

Obviously, that's the administration's game. But you know what? I don't think it's going to work anymore. Gov Sanford moved on, married his love interest he mysteriously found on line, and now he's a Republican in the HOR. Petraeus stepped down on something that didn't even qualify as a scandal (an aging guy attracted by an attractive successful woman) except for the fact that the CIA Director didn't know the FBI was spying on him. Why did he step down?

What's my point? People will put up with almost any scandal if someone comes clean and follows through in the best way possible. But what we won't put up with is stuff like always wondering why Roberts voted to destroy the nation with Obamacare...what could ever be worth that?

18 posted on 06/09/2013 8:51:32 AM PDT by grania
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Wait...isn’t Rand Paul a United States Senator?

So the Executive Branch is doing something under color of law that the Legislative Branch authorized?

Gee Rand, maybe you could do something about that where you live...in the Senate.

Instead of running to the Judges.


19 posted on 06/09/2013 8:55:08 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: Theoria
If he feels it violates the Constitution, ya don't appeal to the Gov't 'court' for answer. You hold the persons in violation of the Constitution.

Very true. Congress is going to have to discover some intestinal fortitude very soon. They let Eric Holder sit before them and refuse to answer whether or not he was monitoring THEM. That slap came after he perjured himself before them, after IRS bigwigs insulted them to their faces, etc. They are going to have to start impeachment proceedings against some people or jailing some people, otherwise the precedent will be cemented that the legislative branch is all talk. Hoping the media will fan the flames of outrage is a false hope, and "tsk tsk" statements to the press aren't going to cut it. Congress must do some checkin' and balancin' outside of flapping gums in front of television cameras.
20 posted on 06/09/2013 8:55:52 AM PDT by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
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To: grania

Betray Us stepped down and a muslim is in his place.

Who won that one again?


21 posted on 06/09/2013 8:56:03 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Earlier this week, Paul proposed that Congress pass a law stating that the government can't base its program on the Fourth Amendment. He should know, he must know that no one has been claiming that the Fourth Amendment is the source of power for the program. The source of power for the program is the government's power to provide for a national defense under the Constitution.

Now, he proposes that some other branch of government (Supreme Court) do something to stop the program.

Why doesn't he propose doing something that is within the power of the Congress to do - cut off funding for this data-gathering program? Ask yourself why he doesn't propose that, if he really wants to stop the program?

I think he's a phony. I think Rand Paul wants to appear as if he is opposed to a program that he actually supports.

This illustrates the difference between phonies like Rand Paul and guys like Ted Cruz. Cruz isn't afraid to be honest about his beliefs and isn't afraid to make proposals that might work.

22 posted on 06/09/2013 9:02:34 AM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: grania
If a man won't be threatened, you threaten his family.

Everyone has an Achilles heel. And now, Obama has the machine in place to find them all (that's what Maxine Waters meant when she announced that Obama has the goods on everyone).

He's unstoppable (or so he believes).

23 posted on 06/09/2013 9:08:00 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (Get armed, get fit...get ready,)
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To: LostInBayport
Can a State, for example Utah, set up a legal challenge on Constitutional grounds to NSA operations and impound the Utah Data Center?

Phone records could end up at NSA’s Utah Data Center

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56422716-90/phone-data-records-utah.html.csp

Artist's rendition of the National Security Agency's Utah Data Center at Camp Williams, Thursday, January 6, 2011. The cybersecurity facility is expected be completed and open October 2013.

24 posted on 06/09/2013 9:09:40 AM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There is no telling which way those lunatic judges will go.

I bet the will support it.

It’s simply time to defund and abolish the entire machine, even the SCOTUS.


25 posted on 06/09/2013 9:18:10 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Silly Paul. You know the “Right to Privacy” “found” in the Constitution is only for abortion.


26 posted on 06/09/2013 9:23:02 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Sunday said he would examine ways to block the National Security Agency’s surveillance programs before the Supreme Court.

With Roberts in charge, this would merely be an exercize in "Mental Masturbation". It would create a lot of publicity for Paul while actually accomplishing absolutely nothing. SC would refuse to hear it.

27 posted on 06/09/2013 9:24:55 AM PDT by GoldenPup
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To: Tau Food

Ted Cruz? He has’t even criticized the PRISM program yet. He has been in office a few months, AFAIK. I’ll trust him more after he at lest says something about the biggest scandal of my lifetime.


28 posted on 06/09/2013 9:27:31 AM PDT by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"If we get 10 million Americans saying we don’t want our phone records looked at then maybe someone will wake up and something will change in Washington,” he said.

Uh, Rand, sweetheart, what about the phone calls, Internet transactions, and emails to be recorded at the Utah Data Center?

29 posted on 06/09/2013 9:30:56 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (An economy is not a zero-sum game, but politics usually is.)
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To: dirtboy

His stand on this issue will gain him support from both sides of the political aisle.


30 posted on 06/09/2013 9:32:59 AM PDT by mware
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To: TurboZamboni

At least there is ‘standing’ this time; they’ve admitted they ‘accidentally’ captured more than they should.

But, you’re right. If it goes and We win, how do We trust the gov’t to dismantle, delete and not just move it into another area/dept/etc.?


31 posted on 06/09/2013 9:40:47 AM PDT by i_robot73 (We hold that all individuals have the Right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives - LP.org)
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To: PghBaldy
It's possible that Ted Cruz is smart enough to see that there isn't any simple way to change the current program. My criticism of Paul is that he keeps coming up with simpleton proposals that are certain to not change anything and I have to assume that he feels some compulsion to make proposals even though they are meaningless so that he can appear to be doing something.

The only way to really for Congress to stop this program is to cut off its funding. Why doesn't Paul propose that? The Congress doesn't have the power to tell the courts how to interpret the Constitution and the Congress doesn't have the power to tell the Executive branch how to interpret the Constitution. So, why does he propose a law that purports to tell these other branches how to interpret the Constitution when he knows it's not within the Congress's power to do so?

I'll tell you why he doesn't propose cutting the funding for the program. It's because he doesn't want to be seen as really doing anything that might be viewed as interfering with our national defense. He's a phony.

32 posted on 06/09/2013 9:43:31 AM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: CMB_polarization

We can only hope for a sink hole.


33 posted on 06/09/2013 10:00:45 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: Gadsden1st

It could get interesting. What if the SCOTUS ruled that, like Obamacare, government surveillance and databases and dossiers on all citizens are a tax?

This actually has some interesting possibilities, if you think about it. Kind of boggles the mind.

In a manner of speaking, privacy can be thought of as an “intangible asset”, which is still very real, like “business goodwill” is to a business, accounted for right alongside its physical assets. Estimated, of course.

When a business is sold, “personal goodwill” is taxable as a long-term capital gain to the seller (and amortized over 15 years by the buyer).

Once someone invades your privacy, either by invitation, criminally, or via intelligence gathering, you lose part of its value as an asset. So in this case, the SCOTUS could allow the government to levy a tax on it, just like businesses can be assessed and taxed on their good will.


34 posted on 06/09/2013 11:55:36 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: RoosterRedux
Valerie to Barry: “Barry get the flunkies at the NSA to pull all the dirt on Rand Paul and those losers over the Supreme Court...and then have someone from the Cincinnati IRS give them each a phone call. Use back channels as always.”

Wonder if all these phone call records (and credit cards, stock transactions, bank info, etc) has anything to do with a reason Chief Justice Roberts changed his Obamacare vote? Hmmmmmmmm

35 posted on 06/09/2013 1:13:16 PM PDT by BAW ( Obama's NSA.is reading this.)
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To: dirtboy

they have been collecting information on Rand Paul anybody associted with any Republican campaign for the last 4 years. This NSA scandal is the dirtiest thing ever done by a political opponent in US history. The dots need to be conected back to the WH.

They listened and spied in their opponents in the house and senate.

Seems that Holder when asked by Senator Kirk today had a great response.

“Can you assure us no members of the Capitol building were monitored?” asked Kirk. When Holder said he wouldn’t be able to answer that question in an “open forum,” Kirk interrupted him. “I think the correct answer is ‘we stayed within our lane and we did not spy on members of Congress.”


36 posted on 06/09/2013 1:17:34 PM PDT by ncfool (Obama's aMeriKa 2012 can we make it until 2016?)
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To: unixfox

the courts are a waste when judges are being black mailed , Roberts comes to mind right away and watch when the DOMA case comes forward and lets see what judges have been black mailed again


37 posted on 06/09/2013 2:29:53 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Tau Food

I disagree with your notion that solutions need to be complex. Very often the simplest solution is the best one... especially when economy of energy (or Dollars) is considered.

One low cost bullet, properly placed, would have saved a great deal of expense. Of course you realize I am speaking of Hitler... but the same goes for any tyrant, really.


38 posted on 06/09/2013 2:30:37 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: Tau Food

won’t be the first time Pail has said he opposes it and then he;s voted for it.

I;’d like to know why people have not been arrested and criminal charges have not been brought forward , with loss of jobs, jail time and loss of pensions.

These hearings are a joke as the dictators men are not giving evidence or answering questions and why is the white house closed too?


39 posted on 06/09/2013 2:33:10 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What about the rest of us? I`ll take a piece of that action, lets roll.
And while we`re at it, is there a defense fund being set up for the patriot who blew the lid off this latest O`Bozo scandal, I`ll chip a few bucks!


40 posted on 06/09/2013 6:09:08 PM PDT by nomad
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Standing.


41 posted on 06/09/2013 6:34:53 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: unixfox

A republic is a system of governance characterized by the rule of Law.

If we don’t fight, we lose.

Make the Übertermites openly defend their subversion of America.


42 posted on 06/09/2013 6:59:42 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: Black Agnes

>> All the Patriot Act did was make their ongoing data collection activities legal.

More like the recognition of legitimacy necessary for prosecution. But whatever preceded the visibility wasn’t necessarily illegal but probably not admissible.


43 posted on 06/09/2013 11:07:13 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Tau Food
My criticism of Paul is that he keeps coming up with simpleton proposals that are certain to not change anything and I have to assume that he feels some compulsion to make proposals even though they are meaningless so that he can appear to be doing something.

I'm with you. I see the same thing. Just like his Dad he can pontificate clearly what's WRONG but I haven't seen much in the way of doing anything to CHANGE or FIX it.

44 posted on 06/09/2013 11:25:11 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: Regulator

GO, RAND, GO! THIS SENATOR IS DOING SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE! SUPPORT HIM AND BACK HIM. Enough talk..more action. We must support those politicians like Rand and Ted Cruz and a few others.


45 posted on 06/10/2013 12:24:33 AM PDT by itssme
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To: Black Agnes

I used to collect foreign voice messages for the U.S.Navy. Any decryption was performed at NSA. We were forbidden - BY LAW - from listening or copying any telephone or radio messages that involved Americans. To do so was punishable by Courts Martial.

I served between 1980 - 1986.

Don’t be so paranoid, Agnes.


46 posted on 06/10/2013 1:08:26 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Sacajaweau
"I'm almost thinking that this is a diversion from the IRS and other data dipping. And Obamacare is right around the corner. "

This just dovetails right into the other scandals and Obamacare...many thought Judge Roberts was intimidated to rule for Obamacare.

47 posted on 06/10/2013 3:36:55 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: SatinDoll

Because nobody ever breaks the law.

Because you were a peon, they weren’t going to trust you with that.

Because those *other* alphabet agencies are so law abiding. Like the EPA, FBI, DOJ, IRS. I’m sure they’re all so law abiding a quarter of a century later.

BTW, the patriot act changed the ROE’s to allow them to listen in on Americans. It’s why the NSA has gigantic facilities and is building out even more.

This kind of database and information is a despots dream come true. Instant dictatorship, just add despot. We might just have that despot now. If not this one, certainly one on the way. It’s inevitable some human will avail themselves of this power and control.


48 posted on 06/10/2013 3:40:33 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Rand can be a putz, but this time, he’s 100% on target. GO RAND GO!


49 posted on 06/10/2013 3:56:17 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("AP" clearly stands for American Pravda. Our news media has become completely and proudly Soviet.)
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To: Gadsden1st
Because the supreme court has worked so well lately.

EXACTLY! They will rule it is legal just like Omamacare and then where will we be?

Where will we be?

One hundred percent aware that we have fully become the Soviet Union in all regards.

That is useful information.

50 posted on 06/10/2013 3:58:42 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("AP" clearly stands for American Pravda. Our news media has become completely and proudly Soviet.)
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