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Senate kills Grassley’s border-security amendment — with all 4 Republican Gang of Eight members
Hotair ^ | 06/13/2013 | AllahPundit

Posted on 06/13/2013 12:27:52 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Grassley's amendment was dead on arrival in the Judiciary Committee and it was dead on arrival on the floor of the Senate today. Why? Because it did the one thing Republican border hawks Must Not Do as part of this grand, glorious compromise on immigration: It demanded that the border be effectively secured before any form of legalization, including first-stage probationary legalization, is granted to illegals. That would be a true enforcement “trigger” for amnesty, something that would warrant a second look at the bill. But of course, Democrats will never, ever agree to it; they have no more faith in DHS efficiently securing the border than you do, and thus there’s no way they’re going to make legalization contingent upon it. That’s why even Rubio, since the very beginning of this fiasco, has insisted that probationary legalization come before border security. The bill would be dead if he didn’t make that concession, and he’d rather have a terrible bill that betrays his phony promises of “security first” than have no bill at all.

That’s also why he, McCain, Graham, and Flake — the four GOP members of the Gang of Eight — all voted yes on Reid’s motion to table Grassley’s amendment, along with devout RINO Lisa Murkowski. They were the only Republican votes that Reid got, and as it turns out, he didn’t need a single one of them. A motion to table requires only 51 votes to pass and Reid had 52 Democrats on his side. The Republican “Gang” members conceivably could have voted no to try to show conservatives that they were striking a blow for tighter border security, even though they knew their votes would mean nothing and that Grassley’s amendment would fail anyway. They didn’t, because the Gang’s vowed to stick together on tough votes as a show of solidarity in the name of preserving the horrible “compromise” they’ve struck. They’re now past the point, it seems, of even making a pretense of border enforcement for the benefit of angry righties. There’s something to be said for honesty, I guess.

Reid’s move infuriated opponents of the bill, who said their right to keep talking while they worked to build a coalition for their proposal had been stripped away without fair warning.

“This so-called open and fair process is a farce,” the top Judiciary Committee Republican, Charles E. Grassley, called out just before the roll call. “This is a very provocative act.”…

For Reid, the power to call for tabling motions gives him additional leverage to move the debate along at a relatively brisk pace — and with solid odds of keeping the bill to his liking. He can make ideas he views as poison pills go away with 51 votes, while the other side will need 60 votes to add language viewed as killer amendments by the Obama administration, the gang of eight and the coalition of business and labor groups pushing the measure.

Rubio will, I’m guessing, defend his vote to table Grassley’s amendment in two ways. One: He’ll try to pander to conservatives by driving a hard bargain on other hot-button stuff to distract them from the fact that he caved on allowing legalization before border security. His last pander was to demand stricter English-language requirements for illegals; today’s pander is to threaten Democrats that he’ll walk away from the bill if Pat Leahy’s amendment granting rights to the spouses of gay illegals passes. The fact that he’s willing to make a lame, boutique issue like that a dealbreaker but not the fact that Democrats refuse to secure the border before granting illegals probationary legalization tells you exactly how seriously he’s taking this bill from a policy standpoint. It’s an insult to serious border hawks, but as DrewM says, it’ll help Rubio with social cons in Iowa in 2016. And that’s what really matters, Rubio’s endless pronouncements that he’s only doing this because it’s the “right thing to do” notwithstanding.

Two: He’ll end up either backing Cornyn’s amendment demanding tighter border security before the second stage of legalization (the green-card process) or, if Democrats give him a firm no on that, he’ll cave on that too and then try to put together an even weaker border amendment of his own as a substitute. Sounds like that’s what’s in motion now, with Rubio working on a compromise while our old friend McCain tries to kill Cornyn’s bill before it even gets rolling:

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is beginning to speak out forcefully against the Cornyn language, bombarding the Texas Republican with critical comments from the Senate floor. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) is lobbying other Republicans on potential compromises. And Rubio, although he said Wednesday that the Cornyn plan “dramatically improves the bill,” is working on a package that others in the Gang of Eight hope could emerge as an alternative…

Rubio, in an interview with POLITICO this week, would not describe his work with Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) and others as an “alternative” to the Cornyn plan.

“We certainly have ideas, and we’re sharing them with people, but if others want to take the lead on securing the border, that’s good,” Rubio said. “We’re in a game of addition. … The border security elements of the bill will have to be improved. The only issue is what is going to do that.”

Cornyn’s bill is better than the status quo but see Mickey Kaus for why it too is basically a fudge on real border security, beginning with the fact that it signs on to the Gang’s “legalization before security” scheme rather than Grassley’s “security first” proposal. And so now we wait: Will Democrats cave, allowing Cornyn’s ineffective but salable-to-conservatives border amendment into the bill? Or will they muscle Rubio into quitting on Cornyn and offering something that’s even more watered down? The fate of … nothing, really, depends on the answer.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: 113th; aliens; amnesty; bordersecurity; congress; corruption; criminalaliens; democrats; gangofeight; grassley; illegalimmigration; immigration; reid; rinos
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1 posted on 06/13/2013 12:27:52 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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Gang of 8holes


2 posted on 06/13/2013 12:29:06 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Gene Eric

“They’re not ‘illegal aliens’ and don’t call it ‘amnesty’ !”- SOB gang members


3 posted on 06/13/2013 12:32:19 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: TurboZamboni

They have contempt for us.


4 posted on 06/13/2013 12:33:12 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Gene Eric
there is a tweet by drudge that sums it up for me MATT DRUDGE ‏@DRUDGE 11 Jun Do you get the feeling God is no longer watching over America
5 posted on 06/13/2013 12:35:17 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: SeekAndFind

in today’s world immigration reform, although important, is a much lower priority in the scheme of things. It needs to dropped for the year and all energy spent on the scandals, the budget, unemployment, the armed forces, and impeachment.

When do start seeing some indictments??


6 posted on 06/13/2013 12:53:32 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: elpadre

Rush was so wrong about this today. He said the amendment didn’t allow citizenship before security. That’s wrong. This amendment wouldn’t even allow legalization (not the same as citizenship) before border security was agreed.

It’s a silly amendment and deserved to be voted down. We need legalization and registration immediately precisely because the borders are NOT secure. Anyone who comes AFTER registration? No dice.


7 posted on 06/13/2013 1:18:45 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
We need legalization and registration immediately precisely because the borders are NOT secure. Anyone who comes AFTER registration? No dice.

I hope you are being sarcastic. You really want to import 10s of millions of leftist voters? Furthermore, the feds never honor border/immigration security of any law in any meaningful way. LINK: Big Sis: Obama Admin Can Pick Which Laws to Enforce

8 posted on 06/13/2013 1:33:22 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: RummyChick
there is a tweet by drudge that sums it up for me MATT DRUDGE ‏@DRUDGE 11 Jun Do you get the feeling God is no longer watching over America

Curious. Even Drudge gets it? I get the distinct feeling God is not only NOT watching over America, we are now cursed.

The blood-stained soil of 40 million aborted pre-borns cries for justice and a nation and governance which now ridicules God has brought this upon her own head. The Lord shall not be mocked. May He have mercy upon the faithful.

9 posted on 06/13/2013 1:43:25 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: SeekAndFind

This legislation is treason.


10 posted on 06/13/2013 1:45:24 PM PDT by RginTN
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To: Gene Eric

This group sounds like a dangerous highschool elite group “Gang of EIGHT” PHFFFFTTT! Kids, they sound and act like children and our citizens keep voting them into seats of power.


11 posted on 06/13/2013 1:49:58 PM PDT by tillacum
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To: USS Johnston

I’m not as deist, but God surely seems to be acting like a Deist these past few years.


12 posted on 06/13/2013 1:50:00 PM PDT by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: USS Johnston
40 million aborted pre-born

Isn't it 55 million? You make a good point.

13 posted on 06/13/2013 1:51:29 PM PDT by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: Gene Eric

Go ahead Rubio, run for President. What a wuss and by the way you did change your story on Limbaugh and Hannity.


14 posted on 06/13/2013 1:56:28 PM PDT by mortal19440
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To: SomeCallMeTim
We need legalization and registration immediately precisely because the borders are NOT secure.

That is a suicidal solution if ever I heard one. Are you that anxious to destroy our national sovereignty in one fall swoop?

Since 9/11 we-the-sane have BEGGED the Executive and Legislative branches to secure the border but been summarily ignored.

You, Rubio, McCain, Schumer, DiFi, and the rest of the One-World Globalists won't be happy until we're Pressing "1" for Espanol, "2" for Spanglish, "3" for Arabic, and "4" for Redneck.

15 posted on 06/13/2013 1:57:42 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Theodore R.
Isn't it 55 million? You make a good point.

Could well be. I apologize to the souls of 15 million unborn. Who can keep count? :-(

17 posted on 06/13/2013 1:59:48 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: elpadre

With the oldster elected “in charge”, the important issues are those that keep the uninformed/nonreaders glued to the tv and the oldsters standing before a camera telling the uninformed how hard they are working on non-essential programs. Immigration is not as serious as our Border Safety is. I agree...IRS, EPA, JUSTICE DEPT, FAST & FURIOUS,
BENGHAZI and maybe NSA...depending IF snowden has some serious information for the chinese government. These camera hogs just want to be seen and make people think they’re serious...they are not. Too bad none of the elite elected are living right next to the border line between Mexico & America. Too bad our elected don’t have to put up with the garbage these people leave behind, or the damage done to their livestock.


18 posted on 06/13/2013 1:59:54 PM PDT by tillacum
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To: JMsAmerica4ever

Hear ya.

That blaspheming “leader” of this nation actually uttered “God bless” to a group of murderous abortionists. He’s covered up the image of the Lord at Notre Dame during a speech. He’s openly used language that’s portrayed himself as some kind of “savior.” And for all this, We The People re-elect such an arrogant, demonic force?


19 posted on 06/13/2013 2:05:29 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: Theodore R.
I’m not as deist, but God surely seems to be acting like a Deist these past few years.

It may seem as though He's abandoned us, but the truth is WE have abandoned HIM. Satan is merely filling a spiritual void; Man is in love with himself and this world; HIS world of "Do what thou whilst."

America is no longer good, but evil. For that it will face chastisement. Some will blame it on "Climate Change"; Others on "bad government." Others an "angry Mother Earth."

20 posted on 06/13/2013 2:15:18 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: SeekAndFind
The Republican “Gang” members conceivably could have voted no to try to show conservatives that they were striking a blow for tighter border security, even though they knew their votes would mean nothing and that Grassley’s amendment would fail anyway. They didn’t, because the Gang’s vowed to stick together on tough votes as a show of solidarity.

Bi-Partisan treason. And anyway -- there are 50 Senators -- NOT eight. Why is this nonsense allowed to stand??

21 posted on 06/13/2013 2:18:10 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: elpadre

Lemme see.....

PG&E has asked for a rate increase that will make my $600 a mnth in the summer electric bill even higher.

I am spending about $400 mnth on groceries for 2 people now.

My car is broke and in the shop and the $4 a gal gas is killing us anyway.

We are now spending 13% of our gross income on health insurance.

Illegal alien amnesty is not even near the top of my list of important things to achieve. Even if I agreed with it which I don’t.


22 posted on 06/13/2013 2:18:31 PM PDT by sheana
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To: SeekAndFind

I sent money to Dupio’s campaign when he ran against SunTan Charlie.

If Dupio runs again, I’ll scrape together at least twice as much to send to any conservative that will run against this phony who talks out of both sides of his mouth.

My first clue that he was not who he portrayed himself to be when he ran for the Senate was when he refused to join the Tea Party Caucus after being elected—he didn’t think it was necessary. This guy is nothing but a bag man for lobbyists.


23 posted on 06/13/2013 2:40:14 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

It’s a silly amendment and deserved to be voted down. We need legalization and registration immediately precisely because the borders are NOT secure. Anyone who comes AFTER registration? No dice.
...........
There are currently mountains of laws on the books —including the 1986 law that call for border security.

None of them are being enforced.

Neither will the current bills border security WEAK border provisions be enforced. The dems will merely pocket all the amnesty provisions of the current bill and ignore the rest. Then they’ll take the new current law and use it for a jumping off point to grant citizenship to the new people in legal limbo.

Really brother. You need to get a clue as to how the game played. Otherwise you’re just another democrat shill.


24 posted on 06/13/2013 2:42:39 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: mortal19440

One of the best things that happened yesterday was Rubio’s staff calling Limbaugh’s show before airtime and trying to get Rush to have Rubio on to explain that his remarks at Univision were not a contradiction. Limbaugh wasn’t having any of it, and he let his audience know about the call. When Limbaugh won’t let you on his show anymore, you know you’re done. That left Rubio to go whine on Hannity for his airtime, which Hannity, of course, gave him.

Today, when the Grassley amendment was tabled, Limbaugh said (without naming Rubio, but it was clearly to and about him), “It’s sad when someone tries to take advantage of me.”


25 posted on 06/13/2013 3:34:53 PM PDT by lonevoice (Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
I hope you are being sarcastic. You really want to import 10s of millions of leftist voters?

No.. not being sarcastic. Just pointing out the flaw in THAT part of the law.

I really don't know whether I support this bill, or not... No one actually knows WHAT it is yet. IF, these 10-12 million cannot VOTE for 10-13 years?? As they go through the same process as others do... I'm not so sure they would all be Democrats in 10 years.

26 posted on 06/13/2013 6:30:02 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m at the point where I hope Rubio loses even if to a liberal democrat.


27 posted on 06/13/2013 6:31:46 PM PDT by tsowellfan (www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: USS Johnston
You, Rubio, McCain, Schumer, DiFi, and the rest of the One-World Globalists won't be happy until we're Pressing "1" for Espanol, "2" for Spanglish, "3" for Arabic, and "4" for Redneck.

LOL.. Me? Voting with Rubio and McCain? That's a laugh.

Our immigration system is FUBAR. I have serious doubts whether this bill will do ANYTHING to improve it.. but, some parts of it DO seem better.

LEGALIZING... (NOT CITIZENSHIP)... defines who's here, now... As far as I know, NO ONE gets CITIZENSHIP, until the border is "secure". That means.. NO NEW DEM VOTERS until the border is declared "secure"...

MY PREFERENCE?? Build a Freaking Fence... three layers thick, with hell-fire missile drones... and, then PUNISH businesses who hire illegals. But, I'm NOT King. This bill might be a chance to improve things... still waiting to see.

I BELIEVE in "self-deportation". I BELIEVE it works just as well as "self-importation".

Not sure where I'm at on this bill... we're just now getting to the final, important, details.

28 posted on 06/13/2013 6:39:48 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: ckilmer
Otherwise you’re just another democrat shill.

ROFL!!! It's NO FUN until you get called a "Democrat shill".

It will take a LOT for me to like ANY bill that Chuck U Schumer supports... But, I'm willing to at least watch, and listen. It NEVER made any sense to delay some sort of "legalization" until the border security is done. FOR SURE, NO citizenship until the border is secure....

Legalization does NOT EQUAL citizenship. If the border NEVER gets secure? We NEVER have 11MM new Dem voters.

29 posted on 06/13/2013 6:45:16 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: ckilmer
Really brother. You need to get a clue as to how the game played.

I have a good grip on "How the game is played".

I will admit, I haven't been paying SUPER CLOSE attention before now.. because, before now.. NOTHING MATTERED.

I have paid close enough attention to know that, there was ZERO chance the Democrats were going to delay 'legalization' before border security. Even Rubio was NEVER demanding that.

This amendment was STUPID. NEVER had a chance. I really don't even know why it was offered.. other than, maybe to give the R's some cover. THAT, brother... is HOW the GAME is played.

Let's see what the final bill IS... before hating or loving it.

30 posted on 06/13/2013 6:52:12 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: SomeCallMeTim; DoughtyOne; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker
No.. not being sarcastic. Just pointing out the flaw in THAT part of the law.

The "flaw" is that it delays amnesty???

You can't see that importing foreign voters to create a supermajority for one party is on the same moral plane as stuffing ballot boxes or packing juries? Just on a much greater scale.

When Roosevelt tried to pack the Supreme Court with his cronies, a man from his FDR's own party said "This is more power than a good man should want or a bad man should have." Indeed, you can bet that Obama and company will use any greater power they acquire to ignore or destroy the Constitution. And the GOP is no better for helping them.

I'm not so sure they would all be Democrats in 10 years.

Not all, just the overwhelming majority (10s of millions). Many of them are very good people, but most of them vote to elect very evil people. What good is it to be "pro-life" when you vote to elect people who have no respect for unborn human life?

GOP share of Hispanic vote in POTUS elections since 1980:

1980: 38 percent

1984: 37 percent

1988: 30 percent (after the 1986 amnesty!)

1992: 29 percent

1996: 23 percent

2000: 36 percent

2004 (GWB's second term, in which he pushed hard for amnesty): The "official" number is 43 percent, but almost all the polls were under 40%.

2008: 32 percent with full-blown GOP amnesty candidate McCain

2012: 28 percent

31 posted on 06/13/2013 6:59:29 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
If the border NEVER gets secure? We NEVER have 11MM new Dem voters.

You trust Obama and Napolitano to honor immigration law?

Big Sis: Obama Admin Can Pick Which Laws to Enforce

And look how well the govt. honored the "enforcement" part of the 1986 amnesty. You can count on them conferring citizenship though.

32 posted on 06/13/2013 7:11:15 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

Let’s see what the final bill IS... before hating or loving it.
...........
There is no upside for republicans in this bill on any level.

The way to go is what’s being contemplated in the house.

You do things one part at a time. “Comprehensive” just doesn’t cut it.


33 posted on 06/13/2013 7:40:51 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
You trust Obama and Napolitano to honor immigration law?

No.. but, we still have SOME voice in government. As I understand the proposed bill.. there is NO CHANCE for citizenship for either 10, or 13 years... after that, they can't have it until the border is deemed secure. That "deeming" part worries me.... I would like to see some metrics defined.

But.. the current situation is also FUBAR. Maybe, they can come up with something better...

34 posted on 06/13/2013 7:40:51 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: ckilmer
There is no upside for republicans in this bill on any level.

Tightening down on WHO is here... is a good thing for all of us. Not sure they'd actually do that.

I agree with you... step by step would be better. But, that is NOT an option.

35 posted on 06/13/2013 7:43:47 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

Bush didn’t push HARD for amnesty.. until AFTER the 2004 election. So, it’s POSSIBLE to get 40+% of Hispanics to vote for a Republican that appears to give a shit about them?

I don’t believe it’s written that 70+% of current Hispanics will vote D in 10+ years.


36 posted on 06/13/2013 7:46:03 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

Tightening down on WHO is here... is a good thing for all of us. Not sure they’d actually do that.
...........
Take a look over at the NSA discussions.

I agree with you... step by step would be better. But, that is NOT an option.
.........
The senate bill has no chance in the house.
The house plan for step by step probably won’t make it in the senate.
No bill is better than a bad bill that only makes things worse. That’s what the senate bill does. It brings amnesty and leaves the border open.


37 posted on 06/13/2013 7:48:22 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: ckilmer
No bill is better than a bad bill that only makes things worse.

Agree.. but, right now.. we still have NO BILL.

There ARE things that could be done to make things better. Still a ways to go with the current attempt to see what the final result COULD be.

38 posted on 06/13/2013 8:04:13 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: Gene Eric

I saw mccain jacking his jaw today then yielded to “the senator from South Carolina”. I’m not sure but I think mccain bent over so Graham could climb out and start jacking his jaw.


39 posted on 06/13/2013 8:10:27 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican
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To: SomeCallMeTim

There ARE things that could be done to make things better. Still a ways to go with the current attempt to see what the final result COULD be.
..............
Actually the current bill is chalk full of conditional words like “COULD” “should” “may” when it comes to border enforcement. However, Amnesty is mandated into the bill. There’s nothing conditional about it.

Rubio confirmed all this in SPANISH.

Really, if you put lipstick on a pig — its still a pig.


40 posted on 06/13/2013 8:18:32 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: SomeCallMeTim
As I understand the proposed bill.. there is NO CHANCE for citizenship for either 10, or 13 years...

Obama doesn't care what immigration law says, and neither did the fed govt. after the 1986 amnesty. GOP administrations are not necessarily better.

after that, they can't have it until the border is deemed secure. That "deeming" part worries me.... I would like to see some metrics defined.

None of that matters. You believe that the feds are going to start following the law after 25 years of ignoring it?

41 posted on 06/13/2013 8:21:05 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
Bush didn’t push HARD for amnesty.

McCain did (in fact. he has never stopped) and he got 32%

So, it’s POSSIBLE to get 40+% of Hispanics to vote for a Republican that appears to give a shit about them?

It's never happened since 1980. I would say somewhere in the 30s unless it gets worse. Dems are going to tell Hispanics that the GOP is going to lynch them.

I don’t believe it’s written that 70+% of current Hispanics will vote D in 10+ years.

Maybe it will be in the 60s. That's what it usually is. I don't pretend to know the exact number.

42 posted on 06/13/2013 8:46:04 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
Still a ways to go with the current attempt to see what the final result COULD be.

Pardon me, what the Hell are you talking about? This is a bill welcomed by Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Bambi, and the entire democrat Marxist leadership.

What POSSIBLE good could come of that?

43 posted on 06/13/2013 8:55:07 PM PDT by Lakeshark (!)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

This is typical of those who are confused about the issue, like SomeCallMe Tim. The border is a national security and law enforcement issue not an immigration issue. Read the GAO reports. Wake up and get a clue.

The President, Congress and anyone else in the Fed gov cannot claim they are serious about countering terrorism and keeping America safe when they are not securing the border.


44 posted on 06/13/2013 9:28:11 PM PDT by Henry Hnyellar
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To: SeekAndFind

‘stricter English-language requirements’

What a joke, they’re illiterated in their own language and we expect them to learn English!

Open borders, one of the last steps to a one world government.


45 posted on 06/15/2013 4:03:13 PM PDT by doc
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To: mortal19440

What makes Rubio a unique politician is not that he speaks out of both sides of his mouth is that he does it in two different languages!


46 posted on 06/15/2013 4:05:12 PM PDT by doc
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
It's never happened since 1980. I would say somewhere in the 30s unless it gets worse.

It's been running about 30 already... I doubt it can get MUCH worse.

W got at least 40%.. maybe a little higher. It's possible... But, it will take a candidate who at least TRIES to relate to them... a little.

At this point, I really think the political effect is over-stated... in BOTH directions. If 11 MM are added to the voter rolls in 13 years... and, they vote 70% Dem, that's a 3MM voter advantage for them. We could more than make that up JUST by having a conservative candidate who brings out the base.

Sometimes... our elected Reps need to do whats GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY... and, let the politics work themselves out. Our current immigration system is horrible... the HUGE numbers of illegal, and undocumented people living here is a security issue. We NEED to be able to bring in more skilled labor. There are a LOT of things that COULD be improved in a real, overall reform.

That said... I am NOT saying I support the current bill... because it's NOT yet finalized. It depends on the final form: what makes it, what doesn't. A fair amount of it looks decent to me. But, the last few issues remaining (like a border security trigger BEFORE citizenship) are important and difficult for both sides.

47 posted on 06/17/2013 1:08:00 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: ckilmer
Amnesty is mandated into the bill. There’s nothing conditional about it.

This is a KEY point for me.. and, as far as I know.. NOT yet decided. Rubio has been saying, all along, that the border MUST be declared "secure" BEFORE citizenship is granted.

If THAT doesn't make it into the final bill.... NO WAY JOSE for me. And, frankly... as stated by others, I'm not sure I would trust anyone in government to make an honest effort at securing the borders. NO ONE seems interested in even trying.

48 posted on 06/17/2013 1:11:09 PM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them f)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

This is a KEY point for me.. and, as far as I know.. NOT yet decided. Rubio has been saying, all along, that the border MUST be declared “secure” BEFORE citizenship is granted.
..........
he has been saying that in english.

in spanish he says that the amnesty is granted period. the border will be secured sometime later.


49 posted on 06/17/2013 2:01:42 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: SomeCallMeTim; DoughtyOne
W got at least 40%

Possible but unlikely. That number was from an outlier poll in 2004. The average of pre-election polls was Bush 32%. GWB got low 30s in every one of those polls except Gallup 6/30 (38%). I made some html formatting to make the data from the pdf file more readable:

The Latino Vote in the 2004 Election

Table 1 Latino Political Preferences in Pre-Election Polls

Survey Sponsor Date N Bush Kerry


Bendixen & Associates 6/3/2003 800 34% 48%^ Democracy Corps 2/16/2004 1,564 34% 56%
Miami Herald/Zogby 4/01/2004 1,000 33% 58%
Gallup 6/30/2004 500 38% 57%
Washington Post/TRPI 7/16/2004 1,605 30% 60%
Pew Hispanic Center 7/20/2004 751 32% 62%
Democracy Corps 7/22/2004 1,000 30% 61%
Bendixen & Associates* 9/20/2004 900 29% 64%
Washington Post/TRPI 10/15/2004 1,603 30% 60%
Miami Herald/Zogby 10/24/2004 1,000 33% 61%
2004 Survey Average 2/04–10/04 9,923# 32% 60%

^Poll of 6/3/2003 compared a Bush vs. Democratic nominee match-up in the 2004 election. *Poll of 9/20/2004 was a four-state survey in the Southwest including Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada. #Combined survey sample size of 9,923 Latino registered voters carries a margin of error of 0.98%.

At this point, I really think the political effect is over-stated... in BOTH directions. If 11 MM are added to the voter rolls in 13 years... and, they vote 70% Dem, that's a 3MM voter advantage for them. We could more than make that up JUST by having a conservative candidate who brings out the base.

70%-30% would be a margin of 40%, so it depends on how many were voting age at that time. If nearly all of them could vote (and in 13-15 years that would likely be the case), that would be over 4 million. But do you really believe that 11 million is accurate? They have been quoting that number for a very long time.

Remember that the amnesty proponents in 1986 promised only 250,000 would be amnestied. LINK: Chuck Schumer says making that claim. (What a coincidence! Schumer is at the forefront of this amnesty too!) The real number was 10 times bigger.

Our current immigration system is horrible.

And in 1986 the amnesty was going to fix that. Think Charlie Brown, football, Lucy.

50 posted on 06/17/2013 2:39:36 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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