Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Westbrook

The only thing I find unsettling about that is the anti-semitism in that body.

Yeah, lots of that going around. Try to get a Lutheran “pastor” to explain how this...

http://www.google.com/#gs_rn=17&gs_ri=psy-ab&suggest=p&cp=40&gs_id=2&xhr=t&q=On+the+jews+and+their+lies+Martin+Luther

...became a supporting pillar in Mein Kampf.

Oops.

"The right to search for truth implies also a duty; one must not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true."
--Albert Einstein


24 posted on 06/15/2013 5:50:52 AM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies ]


To: TArcher

A person who wants to butcher a document can use any document as a supporting pillar. Hitler created his own Bible and used it as a supporting pillar. Nancy Pelosi thinks that late-term abortion is “sacred ground” - she who supposedly believes both the Bible and the Constitution.

I haven’t read all of “On the Jews and their Lies” by Martin Luther - just looked at the first part - but from what I could see, this was a refutation of the arguments set forth by Jews at that time, ridiculing the Christian faith. Stuff like calling Jesus’ mother a whore who slept with a soldier, etc. You may not have read some of the stuff that was in the Jewish writings, but they were not very “nice”. That doesn’t mean that we hate Jews, kill them, or anything else - just that we disagree. And that seems to be what Luther was doing in that book: disagreeing.

Sort of like Robert Spencer disagrees with the Muslims who say that infidels must die. Is that Islamophobia? Luther was refuting the teachings of the Jews of his day just as Robert Spencer is refuting the teachings of the Muslims of his day. If refutation of the beliefs of Muslims or Jews is anti-Muslim or anti-semitic, then anybody who has something they believe to be really true (and everything else is false) is as bad as Hitler. Is that really what you mean to say? Because that is the basis for the “hate-crimes” mentality - which is being used in Canada, for instance, as a basis to say that parts of the Old Testament can’t be read or preached in churches. The argument is that even just thinking that you are right and somebody else is wrong... is a crime. Is that really where you want to go with all this?

The first point he made flies in the face of racism and sexism, as he rebukes those (including both the Jews and the ancient philosophers) who boasted that they were not born an animal, a woman, or a Gentile/Greek, and who say that the Lord should answer their prayers because of their own worth compared to other people. Insert the word “non-Aryan” for “Gentile/Greek” and you’ve got a refutation of Adolph Hitler. Luther’s anger at those who boast of being born a man rather than a woman also rebukes Muslim doctrine.

I don’t have to believe the same doctrines as another person in order to support their inalienable rights. My reason to support Israel is not because I agree with everything they would say against me. It is because Israel as a nation, in keeping with the worldview of Judaism, values human life and all the other sacred gifts that are protected in the Ten Commandments. Unfortunately, a lot of ethnic Jews are atheist and I think that has a lot to do with the political leanings that line up against the actual orthodox Jewish teachings. Every religion has those who are In-Name-Only. It’s just a fact of life.

Those who oppose the sanctity of life and the other teachings of the Ten Commandments would like to see Jews and Christians divided against each other. I have no interest in being divided from Jews. Obama and his allies hate the Judeo-Christian worldview, because it recognizes the sanctity of human life, even for those of different beliefs. That’s why you get Lutherans, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and atheists all speaking out in defense of religious liberty when the government tries to force Catholics to pay for birth control and abortion.

My husband is an LCMS pastor and neither he, nor I, nor our children, nor anybody I know in any of the churches he’s served have been racist against Jews, which is what “anti-semitism” traditionally means - being against ethnic Jews, rather than against the teachings of current Judaism. My sister-in-law is active in a Messianic Jewish fellowship.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to do with the scare quotes around “pastor”, and why you’re trying to raise a beef with Lutherans. I can assure you that the little white-haired ladies in our churches are not burning crosses on anybody’s front lawn or flying swastikas.


35 posted on 06/15/2013 10:33:07 AM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies ]

To: TArcher

In reply to http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3031564/posts?page=24#24

> Yeah, lots of that going around. Try to get a Lutheran
> “pastor” to explain how this...

Indeed. You’ll get no contest from me on that one. I am aware of Luther’s anti-Semitism. And while he was able to root it in Scripture, I submit that it was Scripture taken out of context, and furthermore without considering that Jesus and all the first Christians, as well as all but two of the authors of the New Testament, were Jews. Even worse, he omitted God’s promise to Abraham and his descendants that He would “bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee.” Even a cursory examination of world history shows this to be true.

Moreover, all Lutheran pastors I’ve ever met, even in the most conservative Lutheran congregations, hold Dietrich Bonhoeffer as a hero of the faith and a Christian martyr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

Virtually all conservative Evangelical Christians today believe that the Jews still hold a special place in God’s economy, that His promises to them are eternal, and that there remain promises to the Jewish people yet to be fulfilled.

The Jewish people and the state of Israel figure very prominently in the prophecies of the books of Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, the Olivet Discourse in the Gospels, and The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Those of us with premillenial perspective are watching current events unfolding as the fulfillment of those prophesies and look to the Jewish people and the state of Israel as sacred in the sight of the Lord.


50 posted on 06/16/2013 5:51:22 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson