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100-Year-Old (IDF) General: We Razed Arab Villages; So What?
INN ^ | 6/13/2013, 8:20 PM | Gil Ronen

Posted on 06/15/2013 9:59:30 PM PDT by Olog-hai

Brig. Gen. (res.) Yitzhak Pundak is celebrating his hundredth birthday. Pundak was the commander of the 53rd Battalion of the Givati Brigade in the War of Independence and went on to supervise the establishment of the Armored Corps. He was also Ambassador in Tanzania and a founder of Arad.

In an interview on IDF Radio, Pundak confirmed that forces under his command razed Arab villages in 1948. “My conscience is at ease with that, because if we hadn’t done so, then there would be no state by now. There would be a million more Arabs,” he said.

Asked why he still finds it so important to lecture to soldiers, at his advanced age, he explained: “Just like in 1948, the country is in a state of danger—and if the Jews do not fight as we did in the War of Independence, the state is in danger.” He predicted that if a war breaks out again, Jews will be capable of the same kind of self-sacrifice as in 1948. …

(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; Japan; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 1948war; antisemitism; antizionism; egypt; israel; japan; jordan; lebanon; palestinians; russia; syria; waronterror
You can bet that due to the lack of context, all the antisemitic websites will be jumping on this.
1 posted on 06/15/2013 9:59:30 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
Obama has so castrated the military with his "diversity" (a term that sickens me along with "tolerance") and his adherence to the homosexual agenda that a pragmatic, get-the-job done approach like that of General Yitzhak Pundak is nigh impossible nowadays. War is hell. Once identified, the enemy must be vanquished. A hero like General Pundak is needed in this era to obliterate the existential menace that is Islam.

And if there's anyone thinking that General Pundak is a sadist, read the whole article, including this portion:

Pundak, who was the governor of Gaza in the early 1970s, said that the credit that is usually given to Ariel Sharon for stopping Arab terror in Gaza in 1971 is mistaken. He said that Sharon was an unnecessarily cruel commander who once said at a meeting with officers that he would offer champagne to whoever killed an enemy fighter – and whoever brings him a wounded enemy "will drink soda."

He said: “I told him, 'You are not my commander, I am not coming to your meetings.'”

2 posted on 06/15/2013 10:13:41 PM PDT by re_nortex
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To: Olog-hai

He looks damn good for 100. And yes, war is a brutal business, period.


3 posted on 06/15/2013 10:30:15 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein)
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To: Slings and Arrows

<....” war is a brutal business, period”....>

That’s putting it lightly in face of what our guys will be meeting in Syria if they ever put our soldiers boots on the ground.

I had a nightmare last night that a small team of our “Special Forces” had already gone into Syria....none came out alive because they not only knew they were coming... but no matter which side saw them...they all wanted them dead.

The Syrians do not want us there...neither does the opposing side. This is going to be a bloodbath now no matter how it plays out.....those guys only want to kill torture and maime...


4 posted on 06/15/2013 10:37:47 PM PDT by caww
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To: re_nortex
Armchair Liberals do not understand that tiny Israel (then population 600,000) was in a win and hold off Arab tide or face massacre (which the Arabs excel at). It was do or die, flush out hostile villages who were trying to annihlate the Jews or be mutilated (which the Arabs excel at).

In the 1948 war nobody expected Israel to win and she lost 6,000 fighters from a population of 600,000!

The Arabs were offered, time and time again a chance at compromise, reconciliation and peace - all of which were rejected (which the Arabs excel at). Now, they want us all to go back to the 1947 UN Partition Plan. They did not accept it then, and in reality, they do not accept it today. The Arabs excel at rejection and sticking their fingers in their rear ends.

5 posted on 06/15/2013 10:52:53 PM PDT by Netz (Netz)
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To: Netz

bump


6 posted on 06/15/2013 10:53:29 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Olog-hai

You use that excuse every time you post something critical of Jews?

You post it then lament that anti Semites (like we are overrun with them) will use that info against Jews....as though Jews anywhere are all alike

They are not.

Likewise no matter how much I support Israel for non religious ways that yes indeed that some non Jews lost property and land in the war....some thru no fault of their own

Just wrong tribe....wrong place....wrong time

And they were not all Muslims....some Druze....some Christian Arab

The prominent Mourra and Saliba and Suleiman families of Haiti are all Pali Christian expats who lost everything in the heat of the 1947 war.....and I knew them all quite well once....

The Hagganah and Ergun were consolidating territory for themselves and a buttload of refugees from Europe....and it was at times an ugly business.....hardly rises to nighttime bombing of London or Dresden

Its not by accident that two or three of the biggest Pali terrorists ever were Christian Arabs.....Habash....Haddad...and Hannah whatshername

Recognizing that history....or the Liberty... it Sabra and Shatilla.....more Israeli warts do not signify one is anti Semite nor does it extinguish overall Israeli righteousness

But Israel has most definitely made mistakes


7 posted on 06/15/2013 11:02:19 PM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: Olog-hai

I’m just curious....are you Jewish or just yet another freeper with chosen envy.....I forget

Some here act like Israel is perfect and in many ways better than we are

I wonder how many feel that way have been there.....

I support the cause I like them...
And know them and realize they are surrounded by humans closer to monkeydom than they are

But these religious affections are irksome.....and often scripturally suspect

Like they are pets of the Revelation

Some eye them like pagans would a virgin at the latest solar eclipse


8 posted on 06/15/2013 11:09:48 PM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: caww

I don’t want American troops in Syria. Why interfere when our enemies are killing each other?


9 posted on 06/15/2013 11:11:44 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein)
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To: wardaddy

You post it then lament that anti Semites (like we are overrun with them) will use that info against Jews....as though Jews anywhere are all alike. They are not
We are indeed overrun with antisemites. There is an even higher concentration of them than normal on Capitol Hill these days, and in the White House who celebrate the connection with the (Nazi-inspired) Muslim Brotherhood and trash our alliance with the only free republic in the Holy Land. The airwaves are literally clogged with anti-Israel propaganda. And yes, the words of this man will be used against Israel, bottom line, to paint Jews as all alike (the oldest trick in the propaganda book) despite the fact that they are not, but that is not what matters to the terrorists—all that matters (now as back then) is the fact that they are Jews.

Any Christian who takes on the false name “Palestinian” has renounced Christianity. Christianity is not supposed to be based on lies, and to call oneself “Palestinian” is one of the most unholy lies ever uttered.
10 posted on 06/15/2013 11:13:57 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Slings and Arrows

It’s the wrong kind of interference. And the end result will not be our enemies wiping each other out.


11 posted on 06/15/2013 11:14:44 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Netz

Why should the Arabs give in? They outnumber the Jews 60 to 1. Each decade goes by, the Arabs close the technology gap and figure a way to fight Israel. The best weapon they have is time and guts. 1982 Lebanon was prelude to growing Arab advantage vs Jewish weakness. Suicide bombers. Jews cannot take casualties. American officials are slowly enticed away by Arab money and lucrative opportunities. US was foolish for supporting a homeland for WW2 Jewish refugees. The only smart person was Sec of State Marshall who resigned after Pres Truman supported partition and recognition of Israel. He knew the US cannot replace the British as protector of the House of Saud (ala oil) and at the same time support Jewish partition of Palestine. He knew this policy will fail. Support for Israel was based on emotions, alliance with the House of Saud (Arabs) was based on money, and over time money usually wins. The US emotional approach in 1948 did not help the Jews of Europe, it basically took them from a Holocaust and put their future generations into another Holocaust.


12 posted on 06/15/2013 11:23:36 PM PDT by Fee (9/11 first shaking; 2008 finance collapse second shaking; 2015 ????)
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To: Olog-hai

Sorry, you’ve lost me. You do understand that I think we should not put troops in Syria, or even choose sides?


13 posted on 06/15/2013 11:31:52 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Yes, I understand that. Both sides are against us. If we were to make any military move, it should be to crush both “sides”, which is possible without too much harm to our military. Won’t happen with the squeamish “leadership” we currently have, as well as the restrictive rules of engagement that our enemy laughs at.

I’m only saying the result will be just that one “side” will win the power struggle versus both “sides” annihilating each other, and the victor’s backers will make Syria an even tougher bastion of terrorism and a bigger threat to not only Israel, but the USA.


14 posted on 06/15/2013 11:38:57 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: wardaddy

The first two aholes you mentioned were COMMUNISTS, not “christians” and all three of them supported the EXTERMINATION OF THE ENTIRE JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL, all while Israel was and has been REPEATEDLY OFFERING TO SHARE THE LAND.

Anyone who thinks those 3 make good examples of leadership vs “Israel’s mistakes” is deluded.

I vomit on your whiney “boatloads of european Jews” comment. I DEFECATE on your Sabra and Shatilla BULL-SHIT, and on your whiney, paulistinian crap-rap about the U.S.S. Liberty, which has been analyzed OVER AND OVER and found by SERIOUS people to have been a tragic error, that determination disputed almost exclusively by jihadi-apologist jerks who SIDE WITH HAMAS AND HEZBULLAH AND THE PA calling for the EXTERMINATION OF JEWISH ISRAEL.

IT IS AND WAS JEWISH LAND, the arabs WERE AND ARE SQUATTERS, it was NEVER A MUSLIM STATE, they are surrounded by MILLIONS OF SQ MILES of ARAB LAND for your precious so-called “palestinians” to GO BACK TO, FROM WHERE THEIR ANCESTORS came from, AFTER ISRAEL HAD BEEN A JEWISH KINGDOM FOR OVER A MILLENNIA while your precious FAKISTINIANS had been humping rocks and camels before becoming Christians or later muslim scum.

MUCK FISLAM, PUCK the so-called “fallustinians” & their sad-sack APOLOGISTS who cry and moan how “imperfect” Israel is.

After all these years, you disappoint me.


15 posted on 06/15/2013 11:56:05 PM PDT by Yehuda
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To: Fee

The only future “holocaust” happening in that region will be self-inflicted by the muslim scum.


16 posted on 06/15/2013 11:57:31 PM PDT by Yehuda
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To: Olog-hai

Then we should make sure the war never ends.

Practically speaking, it doesn’t matter who wins. The winner will hate us, the loser will hate us. If we intervene, they’ll both still hate us. The longer the war goes on, though, the less of them there will be to hate us. Let the savages be savages.


17 posted on 06/16/2013 12:00:45 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein)
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To: Slings and Arrows

It does not follow that there will be fewer to hate us, especially given their reproduction rate. It also does not follow that our staying away will mean they will stay away from us, since their imperative is eliminating the “great Satan”.

I don’t call for “intervention”. I call for crushing them, which is something that nobody in DC has the stomach for.


18 posted on 06/16/2013 12:11:15 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
It does not follow that there will be fewer to hate us, especially given their reproduction rate. It also does not follow that our staying away will mean they will stay away from us, since their imperative is eliminating the “great Satan”. I don’t call for “intervention”. I call for crushing them, which is something that nobody in DC has the stomach for.

Islam?

19 posted on 06/16/2013 12:16:57 AM PDT by ansel12 (Social liberalism/libertarianism, empowers, creates and imports, and breeds, economic liberals.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Remember on 9/11 the video footage of some 30,000 Damascans dancing in the street over the “blow to the great satan”.

Forgive me if I don’t get all choked up.

The only real tragedy resultant to the carnage in Syria is the wholesale slaughter of one of the oldest christian sect in the world.

When this thing is over I would be surprised to find a single soul claiming to be christian alive in Syria.

The ones that don’t flee will be hacked.


20 posted on 06/16/2013 12:49:04 AM PDT by ping jockey (IT IS IMPORTANT TO ME YOU GREASY,HAIRY ARMPIT,HIPPIE.)
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To: Olog-hai; Slings and Arrows; wardaddy

The financial oligarchy long ago adopted a (typical hegelian dialectic) strategy for the middle east which results in the political instability we see today; the strategy was the establishment of the modern state of Israel. The strategy dovetails well for the financial oligarchy with the errant American Christian eschatology of a literal new Jerusalem. This idea first surfaced in the 19th century - during which time most American denominations gradually apostasized - and by the mid 20th century was quite widespread in America, along with all sorts of other unscriptural theological innovations. Given the connection between this modern eschatological view and the modern state of Israel, and the efforts of another British creation, the Muslim Brotherhood, there is basically constant potential for turmoil in the region. Turmoil, of course, is one of the standard tools employed by the financial oligarchy in achieving political changes. Having the thesis and antithesis constantly in effect, the oligarchs need only ever pull the simplest of triggers to produce their desired synthesis. American military involvement in the middle east is always only one news article away.

A key figure to study in developing an understanding of efforts of the financial oligarchy in the region nominally under the flag of Great Britain is Haj Amin al-Husseini. Familiarity with al-Husseini’s resume is essential to understanding the roots of the Muslim Brotherhood, and is just one example of Anglo-American private financial interests pulling the strings in their respective governments to achieve the goals of the financial oligarchy in the middle east.

IMHO, all Americans should familiarize themselves with Haj Amin al-Husseini and his influences, and more importantly what influenced him.


21 posted on 06/16/2013 12:55:26 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: wardaddy
Its not by accident that two or three of the biggest Pali terrorists ever were Christian Arabs.....Habash....Haddad...and Hannah whatshername Recognizing that history....or the Liberty... it Sabra and Shatilla.....more Israeli warts do not signify one is anti Semite nor does it extinguish overall Israeli righteousness

The Liberty was a fog of war accident. Sabra and Shatilla were done by Christian Arabs like that Samir fellow in California who mowed down five people because he was upset over his parents divorce in Lebanon or sumping. The fellow who masterminded Sabra and Shatilla Hoebecka (sp) was probably a Syrian agent, too. It was a clever propagandistic move of Bashir's father to have that guy (since blown up),showing the reaction against the Jews for a massacre that non Jews did. Not to mention the reaction of the Jews of the Labor party in exploiting the incident and fanning the flames of anti-Semitism.

Israel's real warts consist of depriving Rabbi Kahane's party its right to be in the Knesset and not kicking out the rest of the Arabs, thereby subjecting Israel to several decades of terrorism.

22 posted on 06/16/2013 1:18:54 AM PDT by Stepan12
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To: Olog-hai

Nope, they don’t. When they do, I hope it’s not too late.

Here’s a cheerful thought, at least for the long term: Oil money is the fuel of jihad. There was a time when the world economy wasn’t based on oil. There will come another time when it again isn’t based on oil. Ever read Larry Niven’s “A Gift from Earth”?


23 posted on 06/16/2013 1:30:00 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein)
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To: ping jockey

You’re shedding slightly more tears than I am.


24 posted on 06/16/2013 1:30:40 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein)
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To: Yehuda

I like a man who speaks his mind!
Preach on, Yehuda! :-)


25 posted on 06/16/2013 1:59:28 AM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Stepan12
Israel's real warts consist of depriving Rabbi Kahane's party its right to be in the Knesset and not kicking out the rest of the Arabs, thereby subjecting Israel to several decades of terrorism.

That deserved a re-posting :-)

26 posted on 06/16/2013 2:02:07 AM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Olog-hai

I read article 3 times and have yet to find the “So what” quote. No agenda in that title. /s


27 posted on 06/16/2013 2:16:13 AM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: wardaddy

Interesting to know you’re an antisemite.


28 posted on 06/16/2013 4:10:34 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: Yehuda

>> IT IS AND WAS JEWISH LAND, the arabs WERE AND ARE SQUATTERS, it was NEVER A MUSLIM STATE, they are surrounded by MILLIONS OF SQ MILES of ARAB LAND for your precious so-called “palestinians” to GO BACK TO, FROM WHERE THEIR ANCESTORS came from

EXCELLENT rant! Agree 100%. I would add that even the palis’ Arab “brothers” DO NOT WANT them! For good reason.


29 posted on 06/16/2013 4:50:30 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: wardaddy

>> But these religious affections are irksome.....and often scripturally suspect... Like they are pets of the Revelation

Maybe you should read what Paul, inspired of GOD, writes in Romans 11.


30 posted on 06/16/2013 4:52:53 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Yehuda

I agree with everything you just posted only I would have said it a little more forcefully. Israel is the only decent place for children & other living things in the entire Middle East, the b@stards in the UN & EU know it and hate Israel all the more for it.

Whenever I have met an Israeli the first words out of my mouth are “G-d bless Israel!” The reply is always “And G-d bless America!”

One of my reasons to favor Israel is simple math, the inverse of which is, when six million Arab Muslims are surrounded by three hundred million screaming Jews, then I’ll listen to the Arab side and not before.

Long live the Jewish state! Mazel tov!


31 posted on 06/16/2013 5:18:44 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: PieterCasparzen

“...all Americans should familiarize themselves with Haj Amin al-Husseini and his influences...”

Agreed! Haj Amin was fomenting bloody riots against the Jews in Palestine starting in the 1920’s. Small wonder he was later subsidized and made part of the Nazi cause by Adolf Hitler himself.


32 posted on 06/16/2013 5:24:53 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: Netz

Let me see, the British, French, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese invaded nations all over the world. They wiped out or enslaved the local natives.

Western nations have waged wars on each other, including the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians by bombing.

Why would anyone worry about the retaking and protection of the historical home of the Jews???


33 posted on 06/16/2013 5:40:54 AM PDT by BillM (.)
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To: Slings and Arrows
I don't either...but the International Community consistently calls on our country when they haven't contained or resolved any war issues.....we no longer choose to go to war...it's just a matter of when the International Community presses us to...we have lost our soverign choice....Obama gave that away long ago...which is why he is a "follower" now.
34 posted on 06/16/2013 6:00:35 AM PDT by caww
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To: BillM
The Jews and Israel are judged by a different and unfair set of standards from every single nation in the world. As long as the Jews (and many Christians) claim that they are G-d’s Chosen People, they will be made to pay the price for that claim. It's like saying, “oh yeah, G-d’s chosen? well, take this” - blam, blam, blam!
Now how chosen are you that I have decimated you, huh”?

There is no doubt that post WWII colonial powers tried to hold onto what they could no longer hold onto - namely, their former colonies. British ruled Palestine proved to be too much for the bankrupt Brits so they left in hurry hoping that the Arabs would finish off what Hitler did not. Oh my goodness, the Jews survived against all odds and even...struggled to flourish!

Israel had every right to exist BEFORE and not just due to WWII. Jews continually inhabited (albeit not in huge numbers) ancient Israel or Roman Palestina from the time of Nebuchadnezzar to Titus of Rome and the 2,000 years since.

They were violently uprooted from THEIR homeland twice. There was no UNWRA then to keep them in poverty forever...

Now that the Jews are back, everybody seems uncomfortable with that for their own religious, political or economic reasons.

Into the 1930’s, Europe basically said, “Jews, out of Europe” - go to British Mandate Palestine! (there never was a separate Palestinian state or as they called them then, “ARAB” entity or government).

Now, 65 years later the world says, “Jews, get out of Palestine”! So, what are they going to do? These Jews are such a pain in the rear end, right? If only they would cede 99% of their country to the foaming at the mouth Arabs who have the longest recorded kill lust in history.

Then there would be no crises in the Middle East, right? Look again folks at the entire Sunni-Shiite-Alawite world, carving each other up for dinner and all politicians can do is chastise Israel for her settlement policy...as if this was the cornerstone to world peace. What about the 356 other conflicts going on today in the world?

Yes, the Jews, the Chosen people of G-d rub everyone the wrong way so let's deny them repeated, TOTAL victories over the foolish, butt-picking Arabs. Let's keep the situation in the Middle East in a stalemate.

The Colonial powers, including the Turks have no right to dictate anything to anybody - leave Israel alone!

35 posted on 06/16/2013 6:13:54 AM PDT by Netz (Netz)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Olog-hai.
In an interview on IDF Radio, Pundak confirmed that forces under his command razed Arab villages in 1948. “My conscience is at ease with that, because if we hadn’t done so, then there would be no state by now. There would be a million more Arabs,” he said. Asked why he still finds it so important to lecture to soldiers, at his advanced age, he explained: “Just like in 1948, the country is in a state of danger -- and if the Jews do not fight as we did in the War of Independence, the state is in danger.” He predicted that if a war breaks out again, Jews will be capable of the same kind of self-sacrifice as in 1948.

36 posted on 06/16/2013 7:27:01 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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http://www.varchive.org/obs/


37 posted on 06/16/2013 7:35:51 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Yehuda

Yehuda in order to please you son I would have to be blind to what I have seen with my own eyes.

To Jews like you there can be no iCriticism....ever.....period....anyone criticizes anything Jewish they must be a Nazi

You should try being southern for a day...lol...if you can’t take criticism

No matter how much I qualified what I said with support for Israel you will and some others here will brook zero critical observation

Israel has not always acted perfect despite your protestations anymore than we have.


38 posted on 06/17/2013 5:50:25 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: Stepan12

Although there were things I liked about Kahane....there were things I did not.

I do not agree with your other assessments but you are polite


39 posted on 06/17/2013 5:56:20 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: Olog-hai

You refuse to give personal perspective.

Where do you folks learn what nationality folks should call themselves again?

A Christian who lost land in 47 should call himself what again?


40 posted on 06/17/2013 5:59:20 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: JCBreckenridge

You prove my point Mr Little Man amnesty.

Criticize and by default one is anti Semite

You do that about catholics and illegals too

Criticize either and you call that person bigot

It makes you feel like a grown up


41 posted on 06/17/2013 7:05:23 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how myp kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: wardaddy
What Christians “lost land in 47”? All of the areas that once had large Christian populations in the Holy Land now have large Muslim populations. Is that due to Jewish activity?

Any Christian who calls himself “Palestinian” is a liar and positing himself against Jewry in particular, since there is no such thing as a Palestinian, and subscribes to the concept of “nakba”. There is a high incidence of dhimmitude among “Palestinian” Christians, because they actively deny that when Muslims attack them, it’s religion-related (just look at the reaction of Monsignor Manuel Musallam’s reaction to the murder of the owner of Gaza’s only Christian bookstore). Also, by said dhimmitude, they validate the Islamic version of national socialism that Hamas and even Fatah live by.

Since you are overly concerned with my personal perspective (I did not ask for yours), here it is—as a visual of what I am against. It is either a choice between the sole republic in the Middle East or the tyranny of the Caliphate. Any Christian who fights for the latter has abandoned Christ.


42 posted on 06/17/2013 10:42:58 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: wardaddy

“How can someone claim to be a Christ follower (Christian) and embrace something that Christ calls abomination? They can’t!”

They are claiming that they are in fact Christians and that they have Christianity correct.

“It’s a question I’ve never considered as it is irrelevant.”

No, it’s not. If we determine someone’s faith by what they claim, than Bishop Vicky et al are all Christian. There has to be an objective standard by which we *can* determine folks to be or not be Christian.

“I was raised Catholic. Baptized, first communion, altar boy, confirmed etc. Up until college I was a faithful mass every Sunday confession every Saturday Catholic. But I wasn’t a Christian at that time.”

So what does make someone a Christian then that includes you and excludes Bishop Vicky?

“I got saved (accepted the reality of Christ and His atoning sacrifice for me, and made Him Lord of my life) that April.”

So, you’re a protestant and a Baptist. This isn’t hard to figure out here.

“Being Catholic no more makes you a Christian than living in a garage makes you an automobile.”

So what you are saying is that doing the things that Christians do doesn’t make you a Christian?

This is actually contrary to what Romans teaches where Paul states explicitly that, “those who live in accordance with the law, even though they do not have the law are a law unto themselves. They demonstrate that the dictates of the law are written on their hearts.”

It’s not enough to claim that one is Christian to be a Christian. One has to live their life in accordance with Christian teachings.

How does one become Catholic? You were baptised into the Faith. Are you saying that Baptism is worthless?

“Apparently the same happens in Roman Catholicism. Lots of American Catholics on birth control.”

The difference is between official teachings and what the people themselves believe. It’s one thing for some people to dissent quite another for the pastors to teach things that are wrong.

“You can’t be following Christ if you love what He hates and hate what He loves. It’s pretty simple really. If our testimony does not line up with our actions then our testimony is false.”

Thank you. That’s exactly what I am saying here.

“I am saying that it doesn’t matter what church you belong to”

It does matter. You yourself just said, “our actions should be congruent with what we believe.” What does it say when we choose to remain in a church that has apostasized?

“What matters, indeed, the only thing that matters, is if you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ”

Show me where this appears in Scripture. You gave your testimony and said that this is why you believe what you do.

“will lead you away from anti-Christian “churches” such as vicky’s.”

This is why it’s crucial to be a member of a church which practices what Christ teaches. We are explicitly called not to go at it alone, but to go at it together.

“It’s not yours until you accept it and take it.”

I would argue that the gift has been there long before I ever came to be, and it was more a matter of discovering that the gift had already been given to me.

“But not until I accept that gift is He MY Savior”

If I reject him, it doesn’t change. He remains my saviour. If someone saves your life, does this fact change depending on whether I choose to accept it or not? No. The fact remains - my life has been saved. Whether I accept it or not does not change what has already been done long before me.

The choice is not so much to accept that which is already true, but acknowledge the truth that Jesus suffered and died for us on the cross. Someone can accept something to be true and still reject it.

“What is it?”

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/nicene.creed.html

It was first promulgated by the First Council of Nicaea in 325.

“Exactly. Not the Roman Catholic church.”

Where do you get that from? Christ says there’s only One Church, not many, and that the divisions between Christians are not part of his will.

“with trivial and unimportant questions”

They are not trivial, as we are seeing today. Christian unity is important and the divisions of Luther, and Calvin have brought about the disasters that we are now seeing with Bishop Vicky.

“All Christians are in unity.”

Not so - there are wide and deep divisions between Christians.

“We’ve let sin take root in the church and have not pulled it up and expelled those who endorse it.”

You’ll find this in your church just as much as in mine. Sin isn’t a Catholic exclusive.

“This is self-evident. If they are Christian they are in unity with Christ’s teachings.”

But we aren’t you and I have significant differences over the meaning of Christian Baptism, and of Confirmation, Communion, Last Rites, Confession and Ordination. If there are differences between 6 of 7 sacraments, why should we assume that marriage would remain the one held the same rather than assume that the breach will become total, with 7 of 7?

I was a Baptist myself. This is what I fear - that your church will choose the same line that many others already have.


43 posted on 06/17/2013 11:46:03 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Un Pere, Une Mere, C'est elementaire)
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To: wardaddy

NO one said Israel was perfect, SON (I am SIXTY, and I have lived in the South).

Your comments were ludicrous. You quoted COMMUNISTS and annihilators of the ONE Jewish State to garner sympathy for WHAT?

Some Christian Arab friends of yours who preferred living under the future of ISLAMO-MARXISM to living free in the RETURNING Jewish State.

And I HAVE seen it with my own eyes, IN ISRAEL where MORE ARABS of any religion have MORE REAL FREEDOM* than in ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE MIDEAST.

(except no freedom to massacre Jews, Christians, and other muslims they disagree with.)

But keep digging, eventually you might reach China.


44 posted on 06/17/2013 1:18:26 PM PDT by Yehuda
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