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To: Carbonsteel
I didn't go look at the comments, but someone else already posted what I thought: it's great for an airshow. But, the days of close-in aircraft dog-fights are long gone.

Today, aircraft are vulnerable long before they are in visual range. If you see an F-22, you would have already been dead if the pilot thought you were a threat.

Unless the Su-35 pilot can detect an incoming Sidewinder or AMRAAM and out-maneuver it, it's just an expensive showpiece.

Get back to me when it's not detectable by radar and can cruise at supersonic speed.

13 posted on 06/18/2013 2:03:19 PM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: justlurking
But, the days of close-in aircraft dog-fights are long gone.

Depends on what the ROEs are. We've heard your argument before which is why the Phantom II was fielded without a gun.

19 posted on 06/18/2013 2:10:36 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: justlurking

If you tried most of those slow speed maneuvers at full speed or close to it, you bust that sucker up wouldn’t you.

So what’s the true value of some of that. Not much.

As for maneuvering to avoid a Sidewinder, good luck with that.


21 posted on 06/18/2013 2:13:41 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Speaker John Boehner (R) no (D) no (R)... has more waffles than IHOP.)
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To: justlurking
lol...they thought the same thing during Vietnam...didn't even put guns on our best fighter the F4...had to hang pods out in airstream to compensate and loose some of the muscle...

Stealth is history repeating itself.

22 posted on 06/18/2013 2:13:53 PM PDT by rightwingextremist1776
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To: justlurking
“. . .posted what I thought: it's great for an airshow. But, the days of close-in aircraft dog-fights are long gone.”

The F-22 has an internal gun that ‘pops’ out when the pilot pulls the trigger.

Why? Because we will never make the mistake again by designing a fighter without a gun (F-4).

Most A/A engagements will be pre-merge and the close-in phone-booth knife-fight will likely be very rare, but it is a capability we must have (and do).

BVR ROE can be restrictive and the politico's (Obama) would place restrictions where BVR shots can't be taken. And, there are times a friendly might be flying with less that capable EID, and that would require some sort of visual.

We have tactics for that.

Gun kills will happen.

38 posted on 06/18/2013 2:39:13 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: justlurking
Looks to me it's designed for the FAR EAST which in Russia is an incredibly huge area.

They'll be up against Chicom stuff in open country with no nearby base of support. Close quarters combat might be part of that agenda ~ hundreds of miles from any Ground to Air missile defense systems.

68 posted on 06/18/2013 3:59:59 PM PDT by muawiyah
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