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Bobby Jindal signs 6 gun bills into law
NOLA.com | The Times Picayune ^ | June 19, 2013 | Lauren McGaughy

Posted on 06/19/2013 7:30:09 PM PDT by BBell

Gov. Bobby Jindal used a visit to West Monroe on Wednesday, the third stop on his 64 parish statewide tour, to sign six gun bills into law. The legislation includes a measure to penalize anyone who publishes concealed handgun permit information and another to increase information sharing with federal authorities on mental health and firearm possession.

"We're not just signing a few bills -- we're also celebrating the Sportsman's Paradise and American values," Jindal said in an email statement Wednesday afternoon. "Today, we are building on the work we've done to protect the rights of Louisianians while also implementing common-sense gun safety measures."

The most discussed piece of legislation in the batch signed Wednesday was House Bill 8 by state Rep. Jeff Thompson, R-Bossier City. The new law will enforce penalties on the intentional publication of the personal information of concealed handgun permit holders.

Citizens face penalties of up to six months in jail and $10,000 for those who "intentionally disseminate for publication" the personal information, such as names and addresses, of permit holders. Law enforcement or public safety employees who share such information will face up to six months in jail and a fine of $500.

Thompson, who helped found the pro-gun group Defend Louisiana this year, said the legislation was introduced largely as a reaction to the publication of New York gun permit holders' names and addresses by The Journal News last year. He said permit holders' lives and property were put at risk by the release and he wants to ensure such publication will be penalized in Louisiana.

(Excerpt) Read more at nola.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: guncontrol; secondamendment

1 posted on 06/19/2013 7:30:09 PM PDT by BBell
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To: BBell

Gotta love the south and common sense!


2 posted on 06/19/2013 7:33:41 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: BBell

I predict an IRS audit for Jindal soon


3 posted on 06/19/2013 7:34:02 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: BBell

[[another to increase information sharing with federal authorities on mental health and firearm possession.”]]

Am i not udnerstandign htios correctly? It sounds liek he signed a bill givign hte govenrment the ‘right’ to deny anyone who ever was given any of the anti-drugs (anti-depressents, anti-ohsychotics- anti-anxiety)?


4 posted on 06/19/2013 7:39:33 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: BBell

You always have to wonder about civil law in Louisiana, however, because it can pop up in the most unlikely of places. Because of these differences, the bar exam in LA is incredible, and takes 21 and a half hours to complete.


5 posted on 06/19/2013 7:47:16 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: CottShop
The governor also signed two bills that would mandate state courts share more information with federal authorities, especially as they relate to mental health information and background checks for gun buyers. The legislation aims to keep guns out of the hands of people with legally defined mental health problems.House Bill 717 and Senate Bill 135, were introduced by Haughton Republican Henry Burns and Columbia Republican Neil Riser. The new laws will require clerks of court in Louisiana to report to the state Supreme Court when a citizen loses the right to possess firearms. This can occur when someone is found guilty of certain criminal offenses or when a legal determination has been made that the citizen lacks the mental capacity to stand trial. The court would then send this information to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check system. The system is utilized by every federal licensed firearm dealer in the country to ensure a potential buyer does not have a criminal or mental health history that precludes the purchase of a gun.In Louisiana, a citizen is legally barred from buying a gun if he or she pleads guilty to a crime by reason of insanity, lacks the mental capacity to proceed to trial for a crime or is involuntarily ordered to be committed to an inpatient mental health treatment facility.

I suppose it would be in how you define Mental Health

6 posted on 06/19/2013 7:50:38 PM PDT by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: BBell

He should propose a bill to have shooting ranges in all public schools-gun safety classes-all with parent permission, of course.


7 posted on 06/19/2013 7:53:01 PM PDT by Mark (Obama is more confused than a hungry baby in a topless bar)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

When my wife was working towards her B.A. in business Administration there was a special section devoted only to Louisiana.


8 posted on 06/19/2013 7:54:00 PM PDT by BBell (And Now for Something Completely Different)
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To: CottShop

Most of the mass killers have been on antidepressants.


9 posted on 06/19/2013 7:55:05 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

[[Most of the mass killers have been on antidepressants.]]

I think oyu’ll fidn that they weren’t if I’m not mistaken, and simpyl because soem who were dangerous to begin with who go off on killing sprees- doesn’t mean the mass majority of peopel on anti-depressents will ever do anythign wrong- peopel on antis have been law abidign citizens all theirl ives- even while owning guns-

Not sure hwat you’re gettign at?


10 posted on 06/19/2013 8:01:33 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: BBell
Senate Bill 178, sponsored by Riser: Will allow voter registration application forms to be made available to gun buyers "at the point of purchase."

Ha! Motor voter for gun purchasers. Good idea.

11 posted on 06/19/2013 8:03:12 PM PDT by TChad
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To: CottShop

Antidepressants are the direct cause of all of the mass killings.


12 posted on 06/19/2013 8:03:40 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: BBell

[[I suppose it would be in how you define Mental Health
]]

NY is demanding medical records of every one and simply demanding peopel who have ever had antis surrender their guns whether they have a criminal record or not-

Handign hte left ANY leeway regardign htis will eventually end in the govenrment mandatign that ANY use of antis wil lresult in beign barred from ownign guns just liek NY is doing- Hell- just hte fact that thsi type of bill is even eign discussed means the left has made treemendous headway i ntheir fight to ban guns en mass- now they will have almost cart blanc ‘right’ to confiscate

[[This can occur when someone is found guilty of certain criminal offenses or when a legal determination has been made that the citizen lacks the mental capacity to stand trial.]]

This alone will oppen up a huge caqn of worms- it will lead to later legislation which EXpands the definition of ‘legally incapacitated’ (NY doesn’t even require a legal evaluation of mental issues- all that’s needed is that the person has been given at any time i ntheirl ife anti-depressents/anxiety/psychotics medications without htere ever havign been a professional diagnosis- Doctors in NY try to foist anti-depressents on peopel for everythgin ranging from full blown depression to toe aches- claiming the ‘mysterious pain’ is caused by whacked seratonine levels- Hell- they give anti-depressents to peopel with sleep apnea for crying out loud- they hand it outl iek candy-

[[In Louisiana, a citizen is legally barred from buying a gun if he or she pleads guilty to a crime by reason of insanity, lacks the mental capacity to proceed to trial for a crime or is involuntarily ordered to be committed to an inpatient mental health treatment facility.]]

This has already been the law in many states-

The bottom lien is the left is sneakily tryign to insert language into gun bills that ‘address mental health issues’ so that later they can expand the definitions to include innocent civilians who, no matter howec briefly, or for what ever purpose, took soem form of anti-meds- but first they have to get the right to sign onto a ‘slightly exapanded’ definition to open the door to later redefinitions-

The right can NOT capitulate to thel eft one iota- top do so is to lose even more ground-

It souinds liek the wording is ok for the requirements that Jindhal is proposing- but I’m very very leerey of adding any kidns of new laws since the left simply ignores the old laws anyways, and will no doubt manipulate new laws to their advantage somehow by twistign hte itnent-

There are 1000’s of laws already o nthe books cocnenring guns, who can own them, who can’t what guns are legal, what ammo is legal etc etc etc- The only new laws that shoudl be put in place are laws that BAR the left from reinterpretign existing law

Perhaps luisianna had no laws barrign the truly mentally disturbed from owning guns- and if so, they needed such a law obviously, however, now that htere is such a law, expect the left to visciously try to use it agaisnt the right by demandign the definitions be expanded-

At least in luisianna you don’t have a tyranical despot liek NY has who thinks he is above the law and above the constitution- He rams through one unconstitutional law after another without bringing it to vote byt claiming ‘imminent danger’ (ie: There was the ‘danger’ that if the bill had been delayed, that peopel woudl have run out and bought all manner of the soon to be banned guns- and apaprently that was a ‘dangerous situation’ that needed to be avoided by ramming htrough the bill before anyoen coudl object to the constitutional violation- The NY gov thinks he has a mandate to violate the constitution for the supposed ‘greater good of mankind’


13 posted on 06/19/2013 8:22:49 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

Take your meds.


14 posted on 06/19/2013 8:22:57 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: CottShop

Try spell checx. oooops check!


15 posted on 06/19/2013 8:25:43 PM PDT by TsonicTsunami08
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To: editor-surveyor

That’s a myth so bad that it’s a lie. So, stop lying and spreading lies.


16 posted on 06/19/2013 8:26:44 PM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: editor-surveyor

[[Antidepressants are the direct cause of all of the mass killings.]]

Can’t tell if yopu’re being funny or not- if not- please explain yourself- if you are then:

I w2asn’t aware that anti-depressents were capable of firign a gun-

Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, the BTK killer?? John Wayne Gacey- none of them were on medications- the boston strangelr wasn’t- jack the ripper wasn’t- The virginia tech murderer had STOPPED takign his meds and went o nthe killiong spree- and it’s been shown that lots of murderers committed theirm urders AFTER stopping their medications voluntarily

Drugs don’t ‘cause’ murders- sick people use instruments which ‘cause’ murders


17 posted on 06/19/2013 8:30:40 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: BBell

I like Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley, I am am beginning to think that we need more Conservative Americans of Indian Descent in public office.


18 posted on 06/20/2013 12:27:15 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: CottShop

Antidepressants cause permanent changes in brain function. This has been pointed out by many researchers. Those changes cause the person to become prone to unpredictible violent episodes, and the effect does not ‘wear off’ with time.


19 posted on 06/20/2013 9:21:23 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: CottShop

From Dr. Whitaker’s Feb 2013 newsletter:

.
“On December 14, 2012, 20-year-old Adam Lanza
fatally shot his mother in her home in Newtown,
Connecticut. Armed with an assault rifle and two
handguns, he then burst into the nearby Sandy
Hook Elementary School and killed 20 children, six
adults, and himself.

“Tragic, heartbreaking, shocking, horrendous,
unthinkable, inexplicable: All are apt descriptions of
this act of murderous mayhem—except for inexplicable.

“Although the details on this specific incident
are yet to be confirmed, I can say with near certainty
that Adam Lanza was taking psychiatric medication.

First, it was reported that he underwent psychiatric
evaluation and had been medicated as early as
age 10.

“Second, this is by no means the first time
these drugs have been associated with murder and
suicide. Between 2004 and 2011, the FDA’s Adverse
Events Reporting System for drug side effects logged
12,755 reports of psychiatric medications relating to
violence. Among them were 359 homicides, 7,250 incidences of aggression, and 2,795 episodes of mania.
There were also 9,310 suicides.

“Actually, the damage
is far greater. According to the FDA, fewer than 10
percent of adverse reactions are reported. To get a
truer picture of the horrors of these medications,
multiply these numbers by 10!

“This isn’t even the first school shooting linked
with psychiatric drugs. The 14 school shootings
and the 10 murders and murder-suicides listed on
page 3—which left a total of 102 dead and 131
wounded—were all committed by individuals who
have been positively identified as having been
taking or withdrawing from antidepressants or other
psychiatric drugs.

“A Litany of Murder and Mayhem:

• Pittsburgh, PA, March 8, 2012: John Shick,
age 30, shot and killed one employee at the
University of Pittsburgh Medical Center’s
Western Psychiatric Institute and injured six
other people before he was killed by the police.
Forty-three prescription medications, including nine
antidepressants, were found in his apartment.

• Seal Beach, CA, October 12, 2011: Scott
Dekraai, 41, killed eight people, including his
ex-wife, and wounded one at the hair salon where
she worked. He had been prescribed Trazodone, an
antidepressant, and Topamax, a mood stabilizer.

• Huntsville, AL, February 5, 2010: Hammad
Memon, 14, shot and killed a fellow student
at their middle school. He had been treated for
depression and ADHD and was taking the antidepressant
Zoloft and other drugs.

• Lakeland, FL, May 3, 2009: Troy Bellar, 34,
killed his wife and their 5-month- and 8-yearold
sons, and then shot himself. He was taking
Tegretol for bipolar disorder.

• Granberry Crossroads, AL, April 26, 2009:
Fred B. Davis, 53, killed a policeman and
wounded a deputy sheriff after threatening a
neighbor with a gun. He had been prescribed
Geodon, an antipsychotic drug.

• Middletown, MD, April 17, 2009: Christopher
Wood, 34, cut and shot his wife and three children,
ages 5, 4, and 2, and then committed suicide. He
had been on the antidepressants Cymbalta and Paxil
and the anti-anxiety medications BuSpar and Xanax.

• Concord, CA, January 11, 2009: Jason Montes,
33, killed his 25-year-old wife and shot himself to
death in their home. He had started taking Prozac.

• Kauhajoki, Finland, September 23, 2008:
Matti Saari, 22, shot and killed 9 other
students, wounded another, and killed a teacher
before killing himself. He was taking an antidepressant
and a benzodiazepine.

• Little Rock, AR, August 13, 2008: Timothy
Johnson, 50, shot and killed Arkansas
Democratic Party Chairman Bill Gwatney at
the party’s headquarters; he was then pursued
and killed by police. A police report confirmed
that he was taking an antidepressant and ‘…the
drug may have played a part in his irrational and
violent behavior.’

• Dekalb, IL, February 14, 2008: Steven
Kazmierczak, 27, shot and killed five people and
wounded 21, then killed himself in an auditorium
at Northern Illinois University, where he
had been a student. He had recently been taking
Prozac, Xanax, and Ambien, a sleeping aid.

• Omaha, NE, December 5, 2007: Robert
Hawkins, 19, killed eight people and wounded
five before committing suicide in an Omaha
mall. Autopsy results confirmed he was under the
influence of the anti-anxiety drug Valium.

• Jokela, Finland, November 7, 2007: Pekka-Eric
Auvinen, 18, killed five boys, one girl, the principal,
and the school nurse and wounded a dozen
others at his high school before killing himself.
He had been taking antidepressants.

• Cleveland, OH, October 10, 2007: Asa Coon,
14, shot two students and two teachers at his
high school and then committed suicide. He had
been prescribed Trazodone.

• Red Lake, MN, March 21, 2005: Jeff Weise,
16, killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s
girlfriend, and drove to the high school on the
Red Lake Indian Reservation where he opened
fire, killing seven people and wounding five. He
then shot himself to death. He was on Prozac.

• East Greenbush, NY, February 9, 2004: Jon
Romano, 16, took a shotgun to school and
wounded a teacher. He had been on medication
for depression.

• North Meridian, FL, July 8, 2003: Doug
Williams, 48, shot 14 of his co-workers at
Lockheed Martin with a shotgun, killing six of
them, before turning the gun on himself. He
was reported to have been on two antidepressants,
Zoloft and Celexa.

• Wahluke, WA, April 10, 2001: Cory
Baadsgaard, 16, held 23 classmates and a teacher
hostage using a rifle he had taken to school. He
had been taking the antidepressant Effexor.”

There are several pages more of these in the letter


20 posted on 06/20/2013 9:53:42 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

that deoesn’t explain you assertion that ‘all mass shootigns are caused by anti-depressants’- As explained, many mass shootings had nothign to do with the peopel being on antis- and thsoe you cited it does not state whether they had recentyl stopped their meds or not- and the articles cited did NOT state the reason the peopel were o nthe meds for in the first place-

[[the FDA’s Adverse
Events Reporting System for drug side effects logged
12,755 reports of psychiatric medications relating to
violence.]]

This tellsc us nothing- what were the variables? Were trhe persons violent to begin with? Were they suicidal anyways- generally, when peopel are given antis- it’s because they have severe problems i ntheir brains chemical balances- and the antis are a last ditch effort to try to help- Whastr is the correleation between these deaths and deaths and violence caused by emotionally disturbed peopel who were never on drugs?- We can just as well state that peopel eating apples are then ‘prone to murder’ because studies might show some murderers ate apples regularly

What’s to say that those peopel mentioend i nthe lsit wouldn’t have committed them urders anyways? Their minds were sick- all through history, peopel with sick minds commit murder- These peopel are sick- probably severely sick- but one can’t simply say ‘because they took anti-depressants., the anti-s caused thje murders’ nom ore than we can say “Because htese peopel were bullied, they turned to mruder” Because the FACT is that billions of peopel who have been bullied and billions of peopel who have mantal issues NEVER turn to murder

There is a problem with what’s called ‘anecdotal evidence’ which takes isolated incidents (taking very few exampels from an ovwerwhelming evidence bank) and using htose few incidents to extrapolate out to a broad all inclusive statement- that is what vitimin and health product companies do, and it’s deceitful (My aunt told me she took wormwood nightly and she never had gout- therefore wormwood cures gout) or ‘clinical studies show that small amounts of arsenic stop toe fungus- so therefore our product is the only product that uses a specially formulated form of arsenic which has been proven to prevent foot fungus’ when the reality is that only one flawed study shows that folks with many differnet variables i ntheir lives who took small amounts of arsenic, experienced less foot fungus-

Again- What were the circumstances i ntheswe people’s lives? And do note that these are only a small portion of the total murder cases/ mass murders that have occured over many 1000’s of years- were these folsk in the list on their meds at the time? Had they recently stopped their meds? Had they stopped them a long time before? Were they deemed dangerous BEFORE they were issued their meds?

The fact is peopel who are swick- seriously sick- go to professionals because they are afraid they will do somethign bad- perhaps they’ve even triecd to do so- then they are put on meds, later decide they don’t liek the feelign they get o nthe medas, come off, and are sick again- We see that tiem and again- where relatives tell the police that the peopel had been off their meds for soem time- that htey got worse again AFTER stopping hteir meds

There were reports Adam was not takign his meds, and was increasingluy exihibbiting the same bizzarre behavior as before he was issued hte meds, and peopel were as scared of him off his meds as before he was prescribed his meds-

Anti drugs are not cure alls- sick peopel will STILL act on their sickensss even hwen on meds- People who have been murderously sick before goign on meds and then are not a problem after pretrty much refute the idea that anti-s are ‘the cause’ of all mass murders’ I coukld just as easily point ot murderers who were given antis AFTER they had committed mass murders wo then had no inclinatrions to murder after being o nthe meds and extrapolate that out to ‘Antis cure all feelings of murder’ (and defend that statement by sayign the exceptiosn to the rule are thsoe who went off their meds and hten committed murders, and statign that thsoe that were still o ntheir meds at the time had other extenuating circumstances which were to ‘blame’ for the murders)

The list you gave don’t tell whether the peopel were presently on their meds at the time of them urdwers- only that they had been issued meds at some point-

Don’t take any of my arguments to mean I don’t think antis are dangerous meds- or that they can’t possibly ‘cause’ soemoen to freak out or to commit suicide- however, we need to be VERY careful when using anecdotal evidences to support a position


21 posted on 06/20/2013 10:41:40 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

I don’t know why you reject the facts, but the meds do cause violence, due to permanent changes in the brain.

They do cause suicide, and they do cause mass murder.


22 posted on 06/20/2013 12:29:33 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

[[I don’t know why you reject the facts]]

I don’t reject the facts- the facts show that millions of peopel on anti-depresents never commit murders, never gwet violent- the fact is that peopel who are seriously mentally unstable and who have murdered BEFORE goign on meds, calm down AFTER going on Meds, and never kill again provided they remain opn theirm eds- The fact is that there is no way to tell if a person’s mental problem provoked htep erson to murder or if a medication did

If you coudl show that there was a marked increase kin homicides with a majority of peopel taking a certain medication then commiting murders regardless of how severe their mental condition was, then you have a strogn case that meds are the ‘cause’- but the fact is that the vast majority of people who take meds, regardless of how severe heir mental issues are, never commit murders- but a few individuals who take meds AND who are seriously sick commit murders whereas Seriously Sick peopel who DO NOT take meds commit mass murders as well as we have seen fro mthe evidnece showing many of the big mass murderers trhroughout history never were on meds-

A sick mind, is a sick mind- Yuo coudl just as well say that peopel with seriously sick minds who drink alcohol were driven to murder because alcohol ‘made them do it’ by showing that soem of the mass murderers drank alcohol, or some ate burgers laced with steroids and hormones, or some ate chickens also laced with steroids and hormones (which incidently also cause damage to minds)- but when you have other mass murderers who never ate any of htsoe thigns, who ate healthy, committign murders as well, it’s a bit of a stretch to point to a substance and claim a substance is what is ‘causing’ these peopel to committ mass murders

Let’s not forget, that when peopel go on these types of meds, they are sick people- they atre suicidal, they are severely depressed- and most peopel are helped by these meds- we can say it ‘causes them damage, however the fact is that their whacked NATURAL seratonine levels are negatively affectign htem detrimentally as well- and when a person commits suicide while on the drug- there is no evidence to shwo that htey owuld not have doen the same IF they had not taken the meds-

IF there is evidence showing a marked significant increase in suicides of MODERATELY depressed individuals when given the drugs, then we can make a link- but even moderately depressed individuals take hteir lives too- so it’s still a bit of a stretch to link the two until there has been years of study shwoing two groups, those on the drugs who arem oderately dwepressed, and thsoe not on the drugs who are moderately depressed

Doing studies on severely depressedf individuals is a pure craqp shoot because you can never say for sure IF they owudl have committed suicide had they NOT been given the drugs, as many unmedicated severaerely depressed peopel ALSO kill themselves- It seems to me the studies woudl have to be conducted o nthe moderately depressed to try to find trends

The mass mruders throughout history have all been labelled professionmally as having dangerous delusional issues, often including inability to correctly distinguish between fantasy and real life- and htese delusiosn had nothign to do with meds- they were present before any meds were administered- to state meds ‘made them worse’ is to ignore the fact that many mass murders of heir same ilk who didn’t take meds committed the very same patterns of crimes with all the hallmarks of claissic phsychotic conditions


23 posted on 06/20/2013 9:06:24 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: editor-surveyor

The only time we can truly say soemthign ‘causes’ someoen to do soemthing is when that person is clinically insane- they are NOT in control of their faculties and have no sense of right and wrong

If memory serves me right- Awhile ago there was a thread on FR where the poster tried to defend a criminal who had ‘frontal lobe damage’ claiming htat hte person wasn’t in control of their faculties, and hterefore ‘couldn’t help it’

Peopel with frontal lobe damage lose all sense of ‘caring’ for either themselve,s or others- peopel with frontal lobe damage can walk up to a stranger, murder that person, and feel absoltuely nothing- thse peopel often lead lives that are fileld with danger (drivign way too fast, skydiving, rock climbing etc, and hwen asked why, they simply shrug and say they coudl care less if they live or die- and they mean that because hteir capacity to care has been damaged)

HOWEVER, these peopel still know right from wrong, and restrain themselves from murderign others willy nilly, and when asked if they know murder is wrong, will respond ‘yes’. Even though htey don’t care that it’s wrong, they DO apparently care abotu soemthing- or soemthign compells them to refrain from murder- otherwise, there woudl be an epidemic of murders committed by peopel with frontal lobe damage

I beleive the poster then tried ot make the case that the person in question was ‘more damaged’ than the exampels I listed and spoke of- however, thsoe I mentioend haqd total loss of the areas in the frontal lobe responsible for caring- Yuo don’;t get ‘more damaged, than total loss of the ability to care- The MRI’s showed the damage and the difference between normal peopel and thsoe with damaged lobes- it was quite a stark difference

While some popel with damaged frontal lobes most likely have goen off and committed murders (conciderign htat there are billions of peopel and all manner of cases of folsk with damaged frontal lobes- I’m sure soem have comitted mruders)- it woudl be scientfiically irresponsible to state that frontal lobe damage casues mass murders simpl;y because htere is no way to tell IF thsoe with frontal lobe damage had other sisues goign on and woudl have commited the murders anyways. However, it woudl be perfectly feasible to state that frontal lobe damage “Is a LIKELY CAUSE” IF a majority of peoepl with frontal lobe damage commit murders

as we’ve seen in my previous posts, a majority of peopel on SSRI’s do not go out and commit mruders- infact hte overwhelmign majority do not-

However, the voerwhelming majorty of peopel who DIO committ mass murders were severely sick individuals who had coping skill issues and folks who thrived on fuelign their unnatural lusts- Soem were truly sick peopel, liek Adam Lanza, who are simply out of touch with reality- but if we’re goign to state that his past use of meds caused him to become out of touch, that’s a very hard thign to prove-, and the sitre you listed is far to vague to even begin suggestign that meds ‘cause’ mass murders- that’s why I reject the site’s premise


24 posted on 06/20/2013 9:41:32 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: editor-surveyor

[[but the meds do cause violence, due to permanent changes in the brain.]]

This statement is what I take issue with- The site you listed told us nothign abotu whether thsoe individuals were prone to violence BEFORE takign meds- and, antoher point- we don’t know if it’s the damage ‘causing’ the violence, or whether a person’s deteriorating mental condition itself is ‘causing’ the violence (I put ‘causing’ in quotes because peopel are far to quick to try to blame soemthign other than the criminal themselves as the ‘cause’- We coudl say “High blood pressure ‘causes’ violence, however, many many people with high blood pressure NEVER get violent because htey are able to cotnrol their emotions maturely- thsoe hwo are slves to their emotions are more prone to outbursts of violence, but it’s not the blood pressure ‘causing’ them to becoem vilolent, it’s their lack of self cotnrol- in other words, they are engtirely respopnsible for hteir actions- I know a woman with a very bad attitude- and when that tiem of hte month roles around, she really flies off the handle, and peopel do their best to stay well away from her- she is always causing major problems, even becoming somewhat violent at times- and when that tiem of month passes, she pleads “It’s my monthly that makes me the way I am” and I think to myself ‘Hmmm- what a crock because you’re not to pleasant at any other time of the month either- and it;s obviosu you have anger issues”

We can no sooner state that women’s monthly’s ‘cause’ violent outbursts than we can say antis cause mass murders because many many women get excruciating monthlies and their hormones go all whacky, and htese women do who are able to control their anger do not react like htis woman does- this woman has anger issues plain and simple, and uses her monthly as an excuse for her unwillingness to gain control over her anger (and I suspect that she rather enjoys being mean to people)


25 posted on 06/20/2013 9:54:37 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: editor-surveyor

You are completely clueless. Much like those that support O that believe absolute BS to be facts.


26 posted on 06/20/2013 10:33:44 PM PDT by publana (Beware the olive branch extended by a Dem for it disguises a clenched fist.)
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To: publana

Like you would somehow know?

Spare us your blind rage.


27 posted on 06/23/2013 4:25:47 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: CottShop

I can only ask you why have there been no mass shootings by anyone that has not been on psychotropic drugs?


28 posted on 06/23/2013 4:32:34 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

[[I can only ask you why have there been no mass shootings by anyone that has not been on psychotropic drugs?]]

first of all, not all mass murders were done by peopel on psychotropics- secondly, Because sane peopel don’t commit mass murders- I’ve made my points previously and stand by them- Nearly ALL the peopel invovled in mass shootings were sick people- their sickness and lack of self control ‘caused’ them to murder- not a drug, not a game, not a gun, nothign but themsleves- Perhaps there were soem truly insane peopel who had absolutely no idea what they were doign was wrong, but I doubt it- it appears all were in full control of their faculties conciderign hte planning that was behind each incident-

Thj one thing that bound mopst of htese peopel together was that they were sick individuals— many of whom were ‘bullied’ - shall we blame the ‘cause’ on bullying? The cause was their sickness coupled with their sinfulness- nothign else-


29 posted on 06/23/2013 9:30:03 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

As I had mentioend before- it’s important NOT to take anecdotal evidences and make a case out of them for the reasosn I listed- As well, psychiatric studies have shown that psychotropic drugs DECREASE not increase homicidal behaviors- the mass majority of peopel on psychotropics get calmed down enough to PREVENT them from commigtting homicides- the odds are not i nfavor of supporting hte idea that psychotropics icnrease homicidal behavior-

When we take anectodtal evidneces and try ot make a case out of them, we stray from the science and into conjecture-

We coudl just as well state that all of hte mass murderers drank milk at soem point i ntheir lives, milk laced with hormones, which caused permanent changes i nthem, which ‘caused’ the mass shootings- there’s just no eivdence to support such a claim-

The more answerable question shoudl be ‘how many of the mass shooters were sick people’?

Smoking bath salts causes bizzaree behavior- that is an observable, recordable cause and effect- sane peopel do insane thigns on bath salts- however insane or sick peopel takign drugs that calm insanity and sickensses, and who nonetheless might then do insane thigns at soem point does not mean that the drug ‘caused’ the behavior- no more that my great aunt fanny claiming that chewing hte bark of pine trees kept her from gettign pink eye all her life-


30 posted on 06/23/2013 10:02:23 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

>> “first of all, not all mass murders were done by peopel on psychotropics” <<

.
Not so!

Every mass killer in the past half century has had psychotropic drugs.


31 posted on 06/24/2013 8:25:39 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

really? Ted bundy, the clown, son of sam, Ramirez, dude in russia, dahmer, tower shooter, etc etc etcf-

I’ve made my case- you apparently are not goign to allow that sick peopel murder due to sickness- and to try to prove that somethign ‘causes’ sick peopel to murder- so we’re going to have to agree tro dissagree-


32 posted on 06/24/2013 9:06:54 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

You’ve made no case; you’ve just squirmed because you hate to admit that drugs are nothing but total destruction of humanity, with zero benefit.


33 posted on 06/24/2013 1:30:03 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

[[You’ve made no case;]]

BS- you;ve ignored the case that was made because it doesn’t fit your ‘man isn’t responsible for hteir own actions’ ideology and it doesn’t jive with your ‘peopel aren’t murderers, drugs cause murder’ scenario-

[[You’ve made no case; you’ve just squirmed because you hate to admit]]

what the hell are you talkin about? Since you’re gonna get pissy about it- Ill return the favor-

You’re the one that simpyl says ‘Nuh uh- they all were on drugs, so must be the drugs’ WITHOUT any evidnece to show that the drugs are the cause- You point to a site that lsits mass murders who ‘used’ drugs at soem point (of course t doesn’t state wehther they were currently on the drugs when htem urders were commited form ost of hte cases because htat might undermine the ‘the drugs casued them’ ideology), and hten without ANY evidence whatsoever, you claim the drugs so mess up a person that even when not on them they are mass murderers- you state that just hte fact that they were on the drugs is enough for you to incorrectly conlude that the only cause must be the drugs- withoput ANY evidence to back it up other than anecdotal evidneces which mean absolutely aquat in the science field by the way-

I’ve repeatedly stated- which you conveniently IGNORE- that the peopel were sick- They were prone to violence BEFORE goign o nthe meds, but none of htis maters to you

I then refuted you claim that ‘all mass murderers were on psycotropic drugs’ but this getse conveniently ignored as well-

I’m the only one here providing any sort of case- you just provide anectodtal evidences OF SICK PEOPLE commiting murders and lcaim it extrapolates out to mean that drugs are the cause hwen OBVIOUSLY there are other SEVERE issues at work i nthose cases- which again, you conveniently ignore- Tell us, woudl these murders have not occured IF those swick peopel had not been on drugs? Shoudl be an easy answer for you as you seem to be ab le to look into hte minds of peopel and determien exactly what causes their actions-

[[drugs are nothing but total destruction of humanity, with zero benefit.]]]

Wow- Just wow- That goes agaisnt all recorded studies and cases that prove that violent peopel ARE calmed by drugs- Guess their calmed states whiel on drugs must be due to somethign quite unrelated to tghe drugs eh? These drugs have helped millions- but by golly editor claism them to b e ‘the total destruction of mankind’ and therefore it was so-

Lemme know if you waNt to discuss future issues without hte personal insults eh? if not- then whatever- you’er on your own- Not really itnerested in discussing an issue firther when all you do is say ‘nuh uh’ and provide nothign but anectdotal evidneces as you ‘evidence’ to ‘prove’; a wild claim- I thought perghaps you coukld keep the discussio nclassy=- bvut I guess I was msitaken


34 posted on 06/24/2013 8:24:04 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

>> “I then refuted you claim that ‘all mass murderers were on psycotropic drugs’” <<

.
That is not a refutation, its the rejection of the facts.


35 posted on 06/24/2013 8:43:25 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

here’s mroe evidence for you to ignore- evidences that don’t fit your ‘antidepressants cause all mass murders” ideology

“Since 1900, the highest mass murder rate was in 1929. Mass public shootings are one of several types of mass murder and generally account for roughly 10-15 percent of all mass killings in the U.S.,” Duwe said.

hmmm- 1929- well before antidepressants were created- must have been soemthign i nthe drinkign water bakc then that ‘caused’ these peopel to commit mass murders-

“In 1913, he stabbed to death his wife and four children in Degerloch, near Stuttgart, then drove to Mühlhausen an der Enz where he opened fire on 20 people, killing at least nine, leaving two animals dead and several buildings burned to the ground.

In 1927, South African farmer Stephanus Swart shot dead at least eight people and injured three others in Charlestown, South Africa, before committing suicide.

In 1938 almost half of the population of the rural village of Kaio, near Tsuyama city in Japan, was murdered as 21-year-old Mutsuo Toi killed 30 people with a shotgun, sword and axe, injured three others and then shot himself to death.

Between 1954 and 1957, William Unek murdered a total of 57 people in two separate spree killings in the Belgian Congo.

He first killed 21 people with an axe, then shot dead ten men, eight women and eight children, slaughtered six more men with the axe, burned two women and a child, and strangled a 15-year-old girl.”

“Defined as bloody events that occur within a 24-hour period and that involve a minimum of four victims, mass murders have occurred all over the world, in different times, societies and cultures.

Some of the earliest recorded cases include the 1893 killing with guns and swords of 11 people (including an infant) in Osaka, Japan, the 1914 shooting of 7 people in the Italian village of Camerata Cornello, not to mention the case of German spree killer Ernst August Wagner.”

http://news.discovery.com/history/mass-shootings-history-121220.htm

On and on it goes- No antidepressants i nthsoe cases either-

And by golly- the sick quest for fame and notoriety by LOSERS has nothign to do with ‘causing’ the kids to murder today- nope- gotta just be a result of drugs because after all, we’ve learned that in early 1900’s drugs were the ‘cause’ of all mass murdeerrs then too.... oh wait- no we didn’t- here were no antidepressants hten- ooopsie

But alas- you’re right- I’m not providign anythign worth concidering- (well, anythign that jives with the ‘psycotropic drugs cause ALL mass murders mantra that is)


36 posted on 06/24/2013 8:46:56 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: editor-surveyor

[[That is not a refutation, its the rejection of the facts.]]

I didn’t reject the facts- the FACTS are that mass murders have ALWAYS occured even before the invention of antidepressants- contrary to your “:Antidepreesants cause all mass murders” (I guess the mass murder/genocides in africa were ‘caused’ by peopel on antidepressants too, or hte genocide in libya, iraq, syria so on and so forth- all ‘caused’ psycotropic drugs)

You provided a lsit of peopel who ‘at soem point’ took drugs and later committed mass murders- since you claim there caqn be NO OTHER CASES than the the drugs, prove it- prove they couldn’t have committed those murders because htey were simply sick- oh that’s right- you don’t have to privide evidnece- you only have to point to a site that provides nothign but VAGUE anectdotal evidence and doesn’t make clear whether coming off hte drugs ‘caused’ them to revert to their violent behavior or not- nope-

[[That is not a refutation, its the rejection of the facts.]]

If this is the meat of your argument- not itnerested in discussing htis issue further with someoen who consitantly ignroes facts and simpyl says ‘nuh uh’


37 posted on 06/24/2013 8:53:40 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

notr to mention the mass murders at schools in china, and aroudn hte world before antidepressants were ivnented- gotta just ignore all those I guess- ignore all the mass murders i nthe 17’th centuries, 18’th, and so on-

And just for the record, the list you linked to only includes a very few of the following mass murders (apparently because the rest of htese mass mruders didn’t fit their ‘psycotropic drugs cause ALL mass murders’ mantra)- only a few of them in this list were on drugs OR had histories of mental illness or suspected mental illness- the rest were murders that were ‘motivated’ by sickness, anger, racial issues, workplace violence, or jealousy with no mention whatsoever of mental illness or drug use- Guess you site conveniently excluded those cases which were detrimental tro the ‘drugs cause ALL mass shootings’ cause—

http://72.30.186.176/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nycrimecommission.org%2Finitiative1-shootings.php&fr=yfp-t-900&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nycrimecommission.org%2finitiative1-shootings.php&d=4762685978314015&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=3XdkRDBtfw510dVwYqFSF4CzSLUmkojy&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=uXfVeVeTAkaLq4WJQZsBrw

This is why I cautioned abotu using anectdotal evideences to try to state that ‘correlation = causation’ ESPECIALLY when compeltely ignorign all the other correlating FACTS abotu hte cases-


38 posted on 06/24/2013 9:45:15 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

for anyoen hwo might stumble across thsi htread- and who might be itnested i nactual facts- I’m not sure why link didn’t work- but try this-

http://72.30.186.176/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nycrimecommission.org%2Finitiative1-shootings.php&fr=yfp-t-900&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nycrimecommission.org%2finitiative1-shootings.php&d=4762685978314015&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=3XdkRDBtfw510dVwYqFSF4CzSLUmkojy&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=uXfVeVeTAkaLq4WJQZsBrw

if that doesn’t work, click the ‘cached’ link in the first link titled Citizens Crime Commission of New York City - Mass Shooting

here: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AmptzmUMoOJLq8laseij1QWbvZx4?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nycrimecommission.org%2Finitiative1-shootings.php&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-900

- it will gert you to hte stats


39 posted on 06/24/2013 9:55:32 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: editor-surveyor

Anyone with a modicum of sense knows.

Spare us your intellectual immaturity.


40 posted on 06/25/2013 1:15:36 AM PDT by publana (Beware the olive branch extended by a Dem for it disguises a clenched fist.)
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To: publana

We all assume that you are speaking to your self.


41 posted on 06/25/2013 9:50:23 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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