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1 in 12 on Bloomberg’s gun victims list are crime suspects
Washington Examiner ^ | JUNE 21, 2013 | PAUL BEDARD

Posted on 06/21/2013 9:44:55 AM PDT by neverdem

A preliminary analysis of the list of shooting “victims” New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s group Mayors Against Illegal Guns is reading at rallies for new gun control laws finds that one in 12 are crime suspects killed by police or armed citizens acting in self-defense.

 
The review of 617 killings found that 50 were suspects in crimes ranging from assault to murder, not the type of violence Bloomberg’s group suggests in its “No More Names” campaign to draw attention to the estimated 6,000 gun death “tragedies” since the mid-December Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings in Newton, Conn.
 
The group is using an online list published by Slate.com which simply lists the killings. In Concord, N.H. this week, Bloomberg’s group read the name of Boston Marathon terrorist Tamerlan Tsarnaev off the list during a rally. The group later apologized, saying that his name shouldn’t have been read because he was “not a victim.”

 
The National Rifle Association told Secrets that reading Tsarnaev’s name and including those of other suspected vicious criminals distorts and undermines the No More Names campaign as it travels through 25 states in 100 days to attack legislators opposed to expanded gun control.
 
“This calls into question every statistic that Bloomberg and MAIG has used and will use to promote their cause,” said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam. “Bloomberg has proven that he will stop at nothing, including repeating flawed statistics, in pursuit of his gun control agenda.  And he'll do this with no regard for the truth.”
 
Mayors Against Illegal Guns said they plan to scrub the list. They also said the focus shouldn’t be on the circumstances of the shootings, but the numbers, according to Buzzfeed.
 
The NRA analysis has reviewed the first 18 days of killings on Slate’s post Newtown list, December 14-31. The NRA is reviewing the Slate list in chronological order and the analysis is ongoing. To determine the events, the NRA is using news clippings.
 
Examples found include an Ohio man shot by police while he was holding a gun in another man’s face, and a 79-year-old Indiana man who shot a 19-year-old who was attacking his granddaughter.
 
A separate analysis looked at 13 gun deaths in Montana listed on the Slate list used by Bloomberg’s group. It found that more than half were the result of police shootings or suicide.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Front Page News; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; bloomberg; corruption; fraud; govtabuse; guncontrol; maig; michaelbloomberg; newyork; newyorkcity; secondamendment

1 posted on 06/21/2013 9:44:55 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Hey, those crime suspects were lost union jobs!


2 posted on 06/21/2013 9:47:28 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: neverdem

Not surprised, even the United Nations considers criminals shot as victims of gun violence. They even count this against US Health Care statistics.


3 posted on 06/21/2013 9:48:03 AM PDT by dila813
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To: neverdem

“They also said the focus shouldn’t be on the circumstances of the shootings, but the numbers”

So Nanny Bloomberg now wants to disarm cops, too?


4 posted on 06/21/2013 9:48:12 AM PDT by AtlasStalled
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To: neverdem
It found that more than half were the result of police shootings or suicide.

I expect at least 50% to be suicides. In the US, suicide by gunshot is one of the most popular methods, due to the available of firearms.

When firearm availability was restricted, the suicide rate by firearm declined. But, the total suicide rate did not change: people simply substituted other methods.

5 posted on 06/21/2013 9:52:36 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: neverdem

1 in 12 is ~ 8% which is not that big a number.


6 posted on 06/21/2013 9:54:01 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: neverdem

Those 6000 “gun deaths” mean 5900 fewer owebama voters which calculates to about 15000 fewer votes for him.


7 posted on 06/21/2013 10:01:04 AM PDT by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude
1 in 12 is ~ 8% which is not that big a number.

Hey, n00b, it is plenty enough to show their blatant dishonesty.

Not sure I care for your "Brooklyn Attitude".

8 posted on 06/21/2013 10:17:05 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: neverdem

I wonder how many of those victims were actually gang bangers and people involved in the drug trade.


9 posted on 06/21/2013 10:18:17 AM PDT by puppypusher (The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: AtlasStalled

AtlasStalled ~:” So Nanny Bloomberg now wants to disarm cops, too? “
Nope he hasn’t said that !
The implication is that only Bloomberg’s bodyguards should be armed

No More Names: The Drive to Reduce Gun Violence will visit 25 states in 100 days.
Newtown Conn. 6/14/13 Friday
Concord N.H. 6/ 18/ 13 Tuesday Statehouse plaza

Bloomberg’s Personal Bodyguard : Leopold McLean, 49, shot his girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend outside her home in November 2010.
NYPD Det. Leopold McLean, 49, shot his girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend outside her home in November 2010.The shooting took place after the veteran NYPD officer had dropped off Mayor Bloomberg’s daughter Georgina at home after a Knicks game.

McLean spotted LePaul Gammons outside his girlfriend Assia Winfield’s Jamaica, Queens home. McLean shot LePaul Gammons twice in the buttocks and back using his service weapon as Gammons ran away . Leopold McLean, is currently serving a 7 year term for attempted murder.

Now ,.. don’t you feel safer ?


10 posted on 06/21/2013 10:18:59 AM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt (“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” - Ronald Reagan)
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To: justlurking
I expect at least 50% to be suicides. In the US, suicide by gunshot is one of the most popular methods, due to the available of firearms.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

2 were semi-local in our area, so I looked up the names- both suicides. Interesting though, is that there were two other deaths in the same town, during the same time frame, both were also suicides, though done without guns. That town is a big gun-free lib zone.

11 posted on 06/21/2013 10:29:50 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: justlurking

Wikipedia:

“Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 11,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States


12 posted on 06/21/2013 10:42:36 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: MileHi

“Hey, n00b, it is plenty enough to show their blatant dishonesty. Not sure I care for your “Brooklyn Attitude”.”

There wasn’t any in my post but that didnt stop you from name calling and generally being a Richard.


13 posted on 06/21/2013 10:53:16 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: neverdem

Those names, those names. There are a hell of a lot of people in this country who needed and deserved killing. I’m pretty sure they are on Bloomies list, too.


14 posted on 06/21/2013 10:57:58 AM PDT by Lockbar (The guy that fires the last bullet gets to write the history books,)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude
1 in 12 is ~ 8% which is not that big a number.

That's just the number killed in self defense or by police. If you add in the number who have felony records, the number goes up considerably. Most people killed by "gun violence" are thugs killed by other thugs.

Up to 90 percent of the homicide victims have criminal records

15 posted on 06/21/2013 11:19:51 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude

1 in 12 is ~ 8% which is not that big a number.
_________

So is this what you’d think if your boss decided to give you an 8% reduction in salary?


16 posted on 06/21/2013 11:26:01 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (Never Forget the Seals of Extortion 17 - and God Bless America)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude
Let's see:

1 in 12 is ~ 8% which is not that big a number.

So at least 8% are bogus (how many more are suicide, bangers killed by bangers?) and you say it's not that big a number. Gun grabbers and democRats in general lie and distort to further their agenda, but as long as it is by "not that big a number", what, not that big a deal?

Now, when a new poster with a screen name that looks like a resident of bloomyville, I have to wonder a little why you seemed to minimize the deception.

17 posted on 06/21/2013 11:30:00 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: PapaBear3625

“That’s just the number killed in self defense or by police. If you add in the number who have felony records, the number goes up considerably. Most people killed by “gun violence” are thugs killed by other thugs.”

In the general scheme of RAT lies and distortion of data 8% seems pretty mild. If you want the number to make an impact incorporate suicides, thug on thug, etc and you can show that number is probably 8 out of 12.


18 posted on 06/21/2013 11:34:47 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: MileHi

“So at least 8% are bogus (how many more are suicide, bangers killed by bangers?) and you say it’s not that big a number. Gun grabbers and democRats in general lie and distort to further their agenda, but as long as it is by “not that big a number”, what, not that big a deal?”

See post 18

“Now, when a new poster with a screen name that looks like a resident of bloomyville, I have to wonder a little why you seemed to minimize the deception.”

I dont care for people who at the first sign of a disagreement run to check your sign up date and call noob as if its some kind of winning argument. FYI someone with an early sign up doesnt mean their point is more valid than
a recent one. I’ve been posting for 10 months, if you suspect I’m a troll try checking my past posts before getting unpleasant.


19 posted on 06/21/2013 11:53:41 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

Gun stats in America are usually pretty slanted.

For instance Detroit has a very high murder rate but it also has the highest justifiable homicide rate (about 5 per week) which is statistically counted as murder.


20 posted on 06/21/2013 11:58:12 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude
FYI someone with an early sign up doesnt mean their point is more valid than a recent one.

No, it doesn't. When I see unfamiliar names, I hover my cursor over their name to see the signup date out of habit. See, some of the newer people are here to disrupt.

Have a good one.

21 posted on 06/21/2013 12:07:16 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude

You make a good point in one sense...as a portion of a number...which is a valid consideration.

That said, there are other aspects on which to criticize the situation:

That they are so uncritical and unthinking that they include a sizable number who clearly don’t belong, and are willing to use even people who needed to be made dead to support disarming the rest of us. This is pretty egregious, and an obvious example even in the more ‘normal’ situations...without even getting to the outrage with Timerlan.

That they would wish us helpless against even these villains in even these situations where the firearms were needed and ostensibly used properly...even in those situations.


22 posted on 06/21/2013 7:50:54 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: lepton

“That said, there are other aspects on which to criticize the situation: That they are so uncritical and unthinking that they include a sizable number who clearly don’t belong, and are willing to use even people who needed to be made dead to support disarming the rest of us. This is pretty egregious, and an obvious example even in the more ‘normal’ situations...without even getting to the outrage with Timerlan.”

For decades the anti-gun nuts have been making huge statistical distortions so frankly I am surprised that people get bent out of shape at a MERE 8 percent.


23 posted on 06/22/2013 10:46:58 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks neverdem.
...one in 12 are crime suspects killed by police or armed citizens acting in self-defense.

24 posted on 06/22/2013 5:21:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: neverdem
The police in Allegheny county, Pennsylvania have stated in the Tribune review newspaper that 80% of gun homicides commited in the county are drug related.
25 posted on 06/22/2013 7:18:54 PM PDT by metalurgist ( Want your country back? It'll take guns and rope. Marxists won't give up peaceably.)
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To: cripplecreek
For instance Detroit has a very high murder rate but it also has the highest justifiable homicide rate (about 5 per week) which is statistically counted as murder.

Crime stats only include criminal homicides, which exclude justifiable homicides (i.e. self-defense and typical cop-related shootings).

26 posted on 06/23/2013 9:47:54 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei
Crime stats only include criminal homicides, which exclude justifiable homicides (i.e. self-defense and typical cop-related shootings).

So where are you getting your crime stats at, I'd love to see them.
27 posted on 06/23/2013 9:51:32 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

UCR definitions are here:

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/handbook/ucrhandbook04.pdf

You can get crime data submitted to the FBI at city-data. Just type the city name and add “city data” to your google search. The nice thing about city-data is you get 10 years’ worth. San Diego PD has data going back to the 50’s. Per capita violent crime tripled in the 60’s and went far higher in the 70’s and 80’s, but have now settled back to the high 60’s rate. This is why news bureaus always talk about crime rates having gone back to 60’s rates, as if the nation has become a land of Mayberry’s. In reality, crime rates are historically high relative to the 50’s and before, and obviously much higher than in Western Europe.

San Diego stats:

http://www.sandiego.gov/police/pdf/2013/UCRRates1950to2012.pdf


28 posted on 06/23/2013 10:16:55 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: pax_et_bonum

“So is this what you’d think if your boss decided to give you an 8% reduction in salary?”
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
That caught my eye because 32 years ago I worked for a company that was in financial trouble. They actually DID cut everyone’s pay by EIGHT percent. In my case this came immediately after I had just gotten a seven percent merit increase. As I recall I had one paycheck with my raise on it and then got cut back to slightly LESS than my old rate. We did not appreciate it! They made an error though, they promised in writing that this was temporary and everyone would be repaid in the future for wages lost during the cut. The feds ruled that this made it a forced loan from the employees to the company and so constituted extortion and they had to immediately restore everyone to their former pay level. By that time I was working for another company so I never got my money back.


29 posted on 06/24/2013 5:48:03 AM PDT by RipSawyer (I was born on Earth, what planet is this?)
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