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Listen, Pilgrim, Maybe It Should Be Called Harwich Rock
The Wall Street Journal ^ | 6-24-13 | Peter Evans

Posted on 06/24/2013 6:29:03 AM PDT by Pharmboy

Another English Town Tries to Claim the Mayflower, and Tourism, From Plymouth

HARWICH, England—A disagreement between two sleepy English seaside towns could make a splash across the Atlantic: by forcing a rewrite of American history.

For 393 years, the southwest England town of Plymouth has been celebrated as the last port of call of the Mayflower before the ship carried the first Pilgrim settlers to what was to become the United States of America. But that is only part of the story.

Plymouth's fame has come at the expense of this tiny town to the northeast of London. The reason: The Mayflower was built and originally set sail from here before making an unscheduled stop at Plymouth. Now, after nearly four centuries, Harwich wants a slice of the historical action. It is building a $3.3 million replica of the Mayflower to send back across the Atlantic.

The project, spearheaded by retired oil executive Andrew March, is part of Harwich's campaign to reclaim its lost heritage by 2020, the 400th anniversary of the Mayflower's original journey. Using 400 tons of English oak and an army of young shipbuilders, Mr. March hopes to launch Harwich, pop. 15,000, onto the world stage.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Massachusetts; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: andrewmarch; england; godsgravesglyphs; happythanksgiving; harwich; harwichrock; mayflower; mayflowercompact; pilgrims; plymouth; thanksgiving; unitedkingdom
"Plymouth was just a stop-off..."

Just terrific history here...do not miss the video at the site that includes the Plymouth Steps and what the English locals are saying.

This is a free article from the Journal.

1 posted on 06/24/2013 6:29:03 AM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: Jim Robinson; indcons; Chani; thefactor; blam; aculeus; ELS; Doctor Raoul; mainepatsfan; timpad; ...
Begging the captain's pardon for the ping JimRob, but I thought you might like to see this one.

The RevWar/Colonial History/General Washington ping list

2 posted on 06/24/2013 6:33:25 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy
Smoke n' mirrors (sort of ...)

If the town in Massachusetts is named Plymouth ... IT WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON THE SHIP THAT COINED THE NAME.

Perhaps it was Captain Jones himself, maybe feeling a little miffed about a missed paycheck, that said .. screw you .. I'LL name it PLYMOUTH !

Wikki is blaming John Smith.

3 posted on 06/24/2013 6:43:39 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: knarf

True enough...but the backstory of Harwich is pretty interesting, and something I knew NOTHING about. They deserve a bit of due, IMHO...


4 posted on 06/24/2013 6:46:39 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

I agree ... THIS native Bostonian NEVER heard or Harwich.


5 posted on 06/24/2013 6:50:24 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: Pharmboy

Perhaps they could get a piece of wood from the ORIGINAL MAYFLOWER, which I understand was eventually decommissioned and the wood was used to build a house, that is still standing today.....


6 posted on 06/24/2013 6:50:42 AM PDT by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? Google your own name......Want to have fun? Google your friend's names........)
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To: knarf

....Or he was a MOPAR guy and not a Ford or Chevy guy.................


7 posted on 06/24/2013 6:51:28 AM PDT by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? Google your own name......Want to have fun? Google your friend's names........)
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To: Pharmboy

James Fort was established in 1607, and was the destination for a number of ships in the years leading up to 1620, the year the Mayflower sailed. So, what difference does it make from whence Mayflower sailed, she was a latecomer.


8 posted on 06/24/2013 6:53:22 AM PDT by centurion316
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To: knarf

I can’t imagine someone from Massachusetts who has never heard of Harwich. Have you never been to the Cape? ;-)

Harwich is a beautiful town. Good seafood. But then, just about all of Cape Cod has good seafood. (Tourism PSA)


9 posted on 06/24/2013 6:54:42 AM PDT by ladyjane (For the first time in my life I am not proud of my country.)
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To: Pharmboy

Pure guesswork on my part — but there’s a Harwich on Cape Cod... and didn’t the Mayflower stop on the Cape first before going on. So maybe they named the first stop Harwich and the second Plymouth. Just speculating.


10 posted on 06/24/2013 6:58:20 AM PDT by jim macomber ("Bargained for Exchange" "Art & Part" "A Grave Breach" "Sovereign Order " - www.jamesmacomber.com)
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To: ladyjane
Yeah .. but not Harwich, England and THIS bit of trivia.

Lobster Neuburgh is my favorite

11 posted on 06/24/2013 6:58:57 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: knarf

Oh - okay.

So how is the weather there? Has the ice melted yet? ;-)


12 posted on 06/24/2013 7:06:57 AM PDT by ladyjane (For the first time in my life I am not proud of my country.)
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To: ladyjane
Transplanted to SW Pa in '80

We're eating peas, carrots, got my first pepper, and broccoli from my exploded (this year, anyway) garden.

All I did last year different was top dress with a couple of loads of wet, smelly cow manure, and my garden is fantastic so far.

13 posted on 06/24/2013 7:21:33 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: knarf
THIS native Bostonian NEVER heard or Harwich

Cause it's pronounced, HAHwitch. It's on the Upper Cape, between Dennis and Chatham.

14 posted on 06/24/2013 7:30:17 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Doing the same thing and expecting different results is called software engineering.)
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To: knarf

Lucky you. The darn deer got into the garden again!! Double fence, electric wire, electric tape, peanut butter on hot aluminum foil, you name it. Fifty feet of peas neatly chewed off at the top.


15 posted on 06/24/2013 7:32:31 AM PDT by ladyjane (For the first time in my life I am not proud of my country.)
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To: Pharmboy
Just to make it more interesting...The PLIMOTH PLANTATION is a great tourist attraction in Plymouth Mass. Yes, the spelling is correct.

Good educational programs for children and adults. Actors at the Plantation stay in character no matter how hard one tries to draw them out to their 'future'.

16 posted on 06/24/2013 7:38:12 AM PDT by codder too
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To: Pharmboy

didn’t they stopover in france or denmark before the crossing? something about picking up some exiles?


17 posted on 06/24/2013 7:43:09 AM PDT by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: camle

I believe you may be thinking of their self-imposed exile to Leiden, Holland.


18 posted on 06/24/2013 7:47:12 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Hahwich on th' uppah cape ...

Yeah, I know.

/8^)

19 posted on 06/24/2013 7:48:38 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: Pharmboy

Well, neither Plymouth was the intended destination ...


20 posted on 06/24/2013 8:15:45 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: centurion316
James Fort was established in 1607...

Indeed! or some reason, the late coming Plimouth Colony contracted with a better PR firm than earlier Jamestowne. Perhaps if the VA settlers had worn funny hats...

21 posted on 06/24/2013 8:42:48 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: jim macomber

The first stop was near what is now Provincetown (aka P-town), on the very tip of Cape Cod, which has long been an artsy tourist hang out, and has acquired a reputation as a gay Mecca. Plymouth was more sheltered, and probably had better access to fresh water.


22 posted on 06/24/2013 10:01:25 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Doing the same thing and expecting different results is called software engineering.)
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To: knarf; Pharmboy

Harwich is on Cape Cod.


23 posted on 06/24/2013 12:22:50 PM PDT by Lady Jag (If you can't make them see the light, let them feel the heat. - Reagan)
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The Mayflower returned to England from Plymouth Colony, arriving back on 9 May 1621. Christopher Jones took the ship out on a trading voyage to Rochelle, France, in October 1621, returning with a cargo of Bay salt. Christopher Jones, master and quarter-owner of the Mayflower, died and was buried at Rotherhithe, co. Surrey, England, on 5 March 1621/2. No further record of the Mayflower is found until May 1624, when it was appraised for the purposes of probate and was described as being in ruinis. The ship was almost certainly sold off as scrap.

The claim, first originating from J. Rendel Harris' book The Finding of the Mayflower (1920), that the Mayflower ended up as a barn in Jordans, England, is now widely discredited as being a figment of an overzealous imagination on the tercentenary anniversary of the Mayflower's voyage combined with a tainted oral history. None of the evidence has withstood subsequent investigation. Regardless of the complete lack of evidence for its authenticity, it has been featured in National Geographic on several occasions and is a tourist destination. It is important to realize that in 1624, when the ship was scrapped, it was not at all famous, and nobody would have thought twice about letting it rot away.

The "Mayflower Barn" in Jordans, England. This barn was identified in the 1920s as having been made from the remnants of the Mayflower. The evidence is entirely unconvincing, but that has not stopped it from becoming a tourist attraction nonetheless. Image courtesy of Wikipedia Commons. [End of the Mayflower -- MayflowerHistory.com]


End of the Mayflower -- MayflowerHistory.com

24 posted on 11/26/2015 5:59:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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It was common practice many years ago in England to use unseaworthy ships' timber to build things. Dutch Elm disease had killed many of the trees of 17th century Great Britain and lumber was very scare. To preserve the number of oak tress from being cut for lumber, wood was priced quite high by the government, making any available timber, such as that in old ships, very desirable. Since the Mayflower wasn't an important ship to the people of Great Britain, this is the fate that most likely happened to the Pilgrim's ship.

In the early 1900s, a Quaker Historian , named Rendel Harris, found a document stating that the Mayflower had been determined to be unseaworthy in 1624. The ship's owners then sold the oak ship for its timber to make some money. Then, while attending a funeral at the Quaker Meeting House in Jordans, England, Harris heard someone say the barn had been built from wood of the Mayflower. That got Harris hunting through documents such as wills and deeds to try and find out whether this was true.

The age of the barn's timber dates back to the time of the Mayflower and the barn was said to have been built by one of the owner's of the Mayflower. If you go to the barn, you will notice that the main beam in the barn has a huge crack in it, just like the Mayflower got on its maiden voyage during a bad storm. The size and weight of the hull used in the barn's construction matches that of the Mayflower and at one time, the letters ER HAR were evident, perhaps, referring to "Mayflower, Harwich," the ship's home port.

One thing is certain, if you tilt your head upside down, you can see that a hull of a ship was used to build the roof of the barn...whether it was the Mayflower, that can't be certain. [Gail Skroback Hennessey, 1/2015 ]


Gail Skroback Hennessey, 1/2015

25 posted on 11/26/2015 6:03:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...
Note: this topic is from 06/24/2013. Thanks Pharmboy.

26 posted on 11/26/2015 6:03:18 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
That would be the Mid-Cape...

Lived in W. Yarmouth for 30 years.

27 posted on 11/27/2015 3:55:47 AM PST by metesky (My investment program is holding steady @ $0.05 cents a can.)
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