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House panel says IRS official waived 5th Amendment right ( Lois Lerner )
CNN ^ | June 28, 2013 | Tom Cohen

Posted on 06/28/2013 12:51:08 PM PDT by george76

Republicans on a House committee rejected strenuous Democratic objections in voting Friday that Internal Revenue Service official Lois Lerner waived her constitutional right against self-incrimination at a prior hearing.

The resolution was the first step in an effort by Rep. Darrell Issa of California, the GOP chairman of the House Oversight Committee, to force Lerner to return to answer questions about targeting of conservative groups by the unit she headed.

It passed on a 22-17 vote, with every Republican in favor and every Democrat opposed, following an unusually vitriolic hearing.

...

Under subpoena to testify before Issa's panel on May 22, Lerner instead made a statement that declared she did nothing wrong, and then invoked her 5th Amendment right. Issa dismissed her, but warned the committee might call her back.

Friday's hearing was the first step toward forcing Lerner to appear again. If approved, Issa's resolution would set the stage for requesting her to come back and testify because she had waived her 5th Amendment right in the view of the committee.

"I believe Lois Lerner waived her 5th Amendment privileges," Issa said. "She did so when she voluntarily chose to deliver an opening statement" that included what he described as "four specific denials ....at the core of the committee's investigation into this matter."

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California; US: District of Columbia; US: South Carolina; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 5thamendment; benghazi; congress; contempt; contemptofcongress; corruption; darrellissa; democrats; fastandfurious; gowdy; impeachnow; irs; irsscandal; irsscandals; issa; lerner; lois; loislerner; obama; scandals; treygowdy

1 posted on 06/28/2013 12:51:08 PM PDT by george76
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To: george76

It always bothered me that O.J. Simpson was allowed to speak to the jury and proclaim his innocence without being obliged to face cross-examination.


2 posted on 06/28/2013 12:52:35 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: george76

Other than show up....I don’t think you have to utter a word once they open up the proceedings. You could just sit there...sipping buttermilk...and drawing circles on a pad.


3 posted on 06/28/2013 12:54:06 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: george76

This is great because they can call her back and hold her in contempt if she now refuses to testify.


4 posted on 06/28/2013 12:54:54 PM PDT by tobyhill
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To: george76

Better do it quick before Lois has an unfortunate and totally coincidental accident.


5 posted on 06/28/2013 12:55:25 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: george76

6 posted on 06/28/2013 12:56:44 PM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: george76
Is Lois Lerner still on paid leave from the IRS?
She was making a substantial salary (over $15,000) in addition to substantial bonus money.
7 posted on 06/28/2013 12:56:58 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: george76
House panel says IRS official waived 5th Amendment right ( Lois Lerner )

Can't she be held in contempt of congress? of course, I think they did that to Holder and nothing came of it - he should be impeached and imprisoned. Too bad Boehner and McConnell are invertebrates.

8 posted on 06/28/2013 12:57:09 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Jesus, Please Save America!)
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To: george76

Good. Get her back, let everyone see her smug arrogant mug again. Ask her how she’s enjoying her taxpayer paid vacation. I’d love to see her plead the 5th to that question.


9 posted on 06/28/2013 12:59:13 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: BluH2o
(over $15,000)

Dropped a '0' ... that should be $150,000.

10 posted on 06/28/2013 12:59:58 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: george76

Even behind, Democrats have no problem getting ‘vitriolic,’ vehement, unruly or even physical when it suits them to get a union goon on scene.

Republicans will not govern ever again if they can’t learn to do this. Screw dignity, propriety and logic; in politics, that’s for fools.

With what’s gone on in the last 5 years, our Founding Fathers would be frigging shooting by now - with musket balls or anything else they could get their hands on.


11 posted on 06/28/2013 1:00:15 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: george76

Proverbially speaking, I want blood. Issa and the gang need to pin these scoundrels to the wall. And there are many involved.


12 posted on 06/28/2013 1:00:20 PM PDT by VRW Conspirator (The Lefties can drink Kool-Aid; I will drink Tea.)
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To: VRW Conspirator

She should be in a hard time prison.


13 posted on 06/28/2013 1:02:07 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: george76
Simple comment, not about the IRS, just in respect to taking the 5th.

It bugs me that the Gov't[Congress] has the final say. They could/can accuse someone in front of them, yet if someone responds they lose the chance of taking the 5th.

14 posted on 06/28/2013 1:05:44 PM PDT by Theoria
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To: george76

Look at the vote on the committee...this is the most the US House has been this bitterly divided since the Civil War. It’s not just a partisan divide...it’s a divide about right and wrong.

What the IRS and the administration did was wrong...and the Dems on the committee know it...but they are only prepared to obstruct the truth from coming out.

During Watergate most Republicans were appalled at the actions of the Nixon administration and helped discover the truth because it was the right thing to do.

Not these criminals.


15 posted on 06/28/2013 1:10:06 PM PDT by kjo (+I am curious about the young college students/grads. Are they cool with a system that impoverishes)
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To: BenLurkin

That one pissed me off beyond words Lance Ito was an idiot and let that whole thing turned into one giant cluster fkdgjdsfjkhbjnfgh


16 posted on 06/28/2013 1:10:12 PM PDT by al baby (Hi Mom)
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To: george76

Who was yhe idiot Dem rep who claimed this was “McCarthyism” when he gave his vote?? What an ass!!!


17 posted on 06/28/2013 1:10:26 PM PDT by ObozoMustGo2012
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To: george76

Even IF she comes back, she’s not going to tell us anything. They are NEVER going to tell us the truth.

So what can we do about it?


18 posted on 06/28/2013 1:15:23 PM PDT by skinndogNN
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To: george76

Sometime tonight she’ll be checking into Bethesda Naval Hospital for an unspecified malady. Unavailable for further testimony until further notice. Have a nice summer, boys.


19 posted on 06/28/2013 1:18:01 PM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: BluH2o
"over $15,000) Dropped a '0' ... that should be $150,000."

I was going to say.....she doesn't look like she picks fruit..... :-)

20 posted on 06/28/2013 1:22:00 PM PDT by Average Al
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To: skinndogNN

A good cross-examiner usually knows the answers to the questions he’s asking. Sometimes it’s fishing but that can be dangerous. They just want to put her on the record. She’ll just refuse to answer.
So she’s found in contempt. Like Holder she just waits for this session to expire. She perjures herself, who knows. Sounds like the ‘pub’s have been taking boner pills. What’s gotten into them, acting like they got a pair.


21 posted on 06/28/2013 1:25:36 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: tumblindice

HOUSE Republicans. There it is—different species.


22 posted on 06/28/2013 1:28:55 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: george76

Give her personal immunity, but make her testify re IRS actions. Government agencies/ employees should not be able to hide from congressional oversight.


23 posted on 06/28/2013 1:31:06 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: george76

Lerner is a criminal and should be in jail.


24 posted on 06/28/2013 1:31:12 PM PDT by I want the USA back (If I Pi$$ed off just one liberal today my mission has been accomplished.)
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To: george76

An executive order in place for federal employees states that pleading the Fifth Amendment before Congress means dismissal.


25 posted on 06/28/2013 1:37:34 PM PDT by MinstrelBoy (If you're a conservative today, you're a hero.)
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To: george76
"I believe Lois Lerner waived her 5th Amendment privileges," Issa said. "She did so when she voluntarily chose to deliver an opening statement"

I very much disagree with that assessment: here's why. (2 videos.)

26 posted on 06/28/2013 1:38:46 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: tobyhill

‘hold her in contempt if she now refuses to testify.’

I am sure Eric Holder would have her promptly arrested.


27 posted on 06/28/2013 1:42:51 PM PDT by Delta Dawn
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To: BenLurkin

“It always bothered me that O.J. Simpson was allowed to speak to the jury and proclaim his innocence without being obliged to face cross-examination.”

I don’t remember this,please jog my memory.


28 posted on 06/28/2013 1:50:09 PM PDT by Cyman
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To: Delta Dawn
that would be the house
Sergeant at Arms job
29 posted on 06/28/2013 1:50:48 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: OneWingedShark

I don’t=it should be but it isn’t


30 posted on 06/28/2013 1:53:52 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: rolling_stone

Some Pundits are saying to give the witch immunity for testimony. Well hopefully if they do this there is guarantees on what her testimony will be. I can just see the dumb Party giving her immunity and then her having nothing to say on the stand. IMO she gladly, and without suggestion subjugated the Rights of Conservatives, Perp walk her!


31 posted on 06/28/2013 1:59:27 PM PDT by DAC21
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To: george76

This is such a great Summer! It’s the best Summer I’ve had since I was a kid! Democrats squirming like worms.


32 posted on 06/28/2013 1:59:44 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: OneWingedShark
Those are both good videos (your post 26), and everyone (and I mean everyone) should view them.

But I don't think apply to the Lerner case. I'm no lawyer, but in a formal (not street) situation, you cannot give testimony and then refuse to be cross-examined.

For example, a defendant at a trial does not have to take the stand.

But if the defendant does take the stand to proclaim his innocence, the prosecution has every right to cross-examine. The defendant has waived his 5th amendment rights in that case.

If I'm wrong, perhaps a FR lawyer will correct me.

33 posted on 06/28/2013 2:04:41 PM PDT by Leaning Right
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Not contempt, but fired for violating Executive Order 10491. I e-mailed a contact at Dana Rohrabacher’s office to clue them in on the Ex O.


34 posted on 06/28/2013 2:05:16 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: I want the USA back
THE IRS IS A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE!

35 posted on 06/28/2013 2:05:25 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: Average Al

I assumed it was the monthly salary. With hush money...er I mean bonuses, it probably is.


36 posted on 06/28/2013 2:05:30 PM PDT by pluvmantelo (After Bush & Obama, surely most people agree, the Excutive must be curtailed!)
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To: george76

“No person shall...be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...”

The House Republicans are wrong on this issue. She has the right to invoke the 5th at any point. The only way to “waive” it is to answer a question. The 5th is also called “the right to be silent.” This means she could answer some questions but not all.


37 posted on 06/28/2013 2:06:37 PM PDT by Terabitten (I'd rather have one Walker than fourteen runners.)
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To: Terabitten

she wasn’t silent


38 posted on 06/28/2013 2:08:12 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: MinstrelBoy
Two ways to go on that:
Kalkines Warnings: no criminal prosecution forthcoming. Talk or face disciplinary action.

Garrity Warnings: criminal prosecution forthcoming. You can plead the Fifth, and not face disciplinary action.

39 posted on 06/28/2013 2:09:47 PM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: george76

Lerner will just hold congress in contempt and maybe be considered for a higher level cabinet poition. Holder will file obstruction charges against Issa’s committee.
That’s the way it works in the upside down Alice in Wonderland USSA.


40 posted on 06/28/2013 2:17:05 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est.)
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To: tobyhill
This is great because they can call her back and hold her in contempt if she now refuses to testify.

If she continues with the 5th I don't believe Issa has the ba!! to hold her in contempt and charge her.

41 posted on 06/28/2013 2:31:41 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: george76

Congress needs to pass a law:

If you are a government employee and are called to testify before Congress about official government business, a invocation of your 5th Amendment rights automatically results in your being fired from your job.


42 posted on 06/28/2013 2:33:00 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: george76

No arrest powers for the Sgt. At Arms of the House:

wikipedia: “For daily sessions of the House, the Sergeant at Arms carries the silver and ebony Mace of the United States House of Representatives in front of the speaker in procession to the rostrum. When the House is in session, the mace stands on a pedestal to the speaker’s own right.

When the body resolves itself into a Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union, the Sergeant at Arms moves the mace to a lowered position, more or less out of sight. In accordance with the Rules of the House, on the rare occasions when a Member becomes unruly, the Sergeant at Arms, on order of the Speaker, lifts the mace from its pedestal and presents it before the offenders and restore order.”
There is, unbeknownst or spoken about a jail in the Congress building. Who has arrest powers?


43 posted on 06/28/2013 3:02:41 PM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: Terabitten
The only way to “waive” it is to answer a question. The 5th is also called “the right to be silent.” This means she could answer some questions but not all.

Sorry. But she was asked questions, after making her self-serving statement. She was asked to confirm whether certain documents were, indeed, what she had certified them to be.

She answered willingly.

She's SOL on the 5th Amendment.

44 posted on 06/28/2013 3:04:28 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01

The only time in that hearing Issa followed advice of counsel. That said... he should then have ruled she had waiver her 5th Amendment rights by so stating and answering. And the look of her attorney-— he knew it.

The next step, right then was to continue to ask questions, and then when she refused, cite her for contempt, actionable contempt. And.. firing. She must answer.


45 posted on 06/28/2013 3:10:35 PM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: John S Mosby

to wit... an article in NYTimes states there is a jail. excerpt from article re: Bolten and Harriett Meirs from GWB admin:
Washington lawyers are dusting off an old but apparently sturdy doctrine called “inherent contempt” that gives Congress the power to bring the recalcitrant witnesses in — by force, if necessary.

What we know that Congress has learned in its investigation of the purge of nine top federal prosecutors is disturbing. Cases appear to have been brought against Democrats and blocked against Republicans to help Republicans win elections. .......

This is where inherent contempt comes in. From the Republic’s earliest days, Congress has had the right to hold recalcitrant witnesses in contempt — and even imprison them — all by itself. In 1795, shortly after the Constitution was ratified, the House ordered its sergeant at arms to arrest and detain two men accused of trying to bribe members of Congress. The House held a trial and convicted one of them. “ All NYTimes article from Dec 4, 2007 Jail in Congress as search. enjoy. They would do it to us...


46 posted on 06/28/2013 3:18:22 PM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: John S Mosby
The next step, right then was to continue to ask questions, and then when she refused, cite her for contempt, actionable contempt. And.. firing. She must answer.

I tend to disagree. Solely because this was not a courtroom and it will inevitably be played out in the press.

Had Issa gone on to your "next step", asking further questions and then, "when she refused, citing her for contempt" -- nobody in the media audience (or in the media)would've understood.

Now, when Lerner is recalled...and refuses to testify...and is warned of contempt...the media audience will understand why.

Certainly, you can argue whether Issa and the Republicans have used this "pause for effect" to effectively establish the parameters of the 5th Amendment in the public mind. But I believe it was appropriate for them to defer the issue.

So very much of what the Republicans (and we) are fighting -- day in, day out -- is caused by a MSM that has degenerated into a Ministry of Propaganda and can no longer be relied upon to inform the public correctly.

For some years, I have asserted that the Unnited States of America faces three enemies:

1. Domestic radicals.

2. Islamic terrorists

3. The so-called Mainstream Media.

< And, of these three enemies, the most dangerous is the MSM. Because, were it not for the MSM, the other two enemies would've been defeated ten years ago.

47 posted on 06/28/2013 3:58:08 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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