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Ted Cruz: 'We need to padlock and shut down' the IRS
WASHINGTON EXAMINER ^ | JULY 1, 2013 - 6:10PM | STEVE CONTORNO

Posted on 07/02/2013 4:06:09 AM PDT by onyx

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To: DTogo

51 posted on 07/02/2013 6:50:49 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: onyx

I’m all for abolishing the IRS but if implementing a flat tax or fair tax includes deductions or allowances, we will still be in the same boat as we are in now. I’d prefer a national sales tax, collected at the retail point of sale and no exceptions. That would keep the percentage lower and would not require reporting any incomes and eliminate most record keeping. Also, the 16th Amendment would have to be repealed.


52 posted on 07/02/2013 6:57:04 AM PDT by upsdriver ( Palin/West '16)
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To: onyx

National sales tax in place of income tax widens the base by netting tax revenue from illegal aliens, off-the-books workers etc...

It makes sense so of course, the liberals are against it.


53 posted on 07/02/2013 7:04:37 AM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Government: Slimy used car salesmen writing laws forcing you to buy their cars)
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To: o2bfree

He gives me hope. It is time to bury this party and restart. He would be a great leader to get the ball rolling.


54 posted on 07/02/2013 7:34:01 AM PDT by Phillyred
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To: Hostage

I skimmed the info at the link.

They say the fair tax percentage can’t be changed.

Question:

but if the fair tax is a federal retail tax; how does it differ from a regular sales tax whose percentage can (and has) change?


55 posted on 07/02/2013 7:36:05 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: yldstrk
shut it down

These people targeted citizens based on their political beliefs... that's against the law. Shutting them down isn't enough....

56 posted on 07/02/2013 7:57:11 AM PDT by GOPJ (... liberal anger - - the privileged wheeze of entitled brats ... Greenfield)
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To: onyx

Cruz is the best bet for 2016, in my book.


57 posted on 07/02/2013 8:00:59 AM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Hey Cruz, get back to me when that windmill actually falls. ... Congress writes law(s) that benefits big business and then big business rewards them with contributions.

this. It's easy to talk and get people excited or angry. It's much, much harder to put forward a plan. I've seen a lot of talk out of Cruz but little action.
58 posted on 07/02/2013 8:25:06 AM PDT by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: onyx

Not to mention, prosecute the criminals working there.


59 posted on 07/02/2013 8:28:59 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: WildHighlander57

The Fairtax as a tax code has many components, from revenue collection to tax court to enforcement.

The revenue provision of the FairTax is called the National Retail Sales Tax (NRST). Note importantly that it is a ‘retail tax’ on retail goods and retail services.

Retail does not include used items or any services or goods that are sold by one business to another business. The NRST is levied on the consumer or end user. For example, Boeing can sell jets to United Airlines and United will never pay a tax. But the consumers or end-users of United’s services will pay the NRST.

The NRST rate will be voted every year when Congress convenes. Everyone will see how their member of Congress voted; it will be completely transparent. if any

So once the yearly change is made to the NRST, that will be the yearly rate for all retail goods and services within the United States and its territories.

There’s a lot more but that should answer your question.


60 posted on 07/02/2013 10:57:08 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: onyx

Bring up the bill to do just that.

Then hammer the piss outta those that let it languish in committee. If it gets to the floor, then we can see what needs to find a new job when they vote against the bill.


61 posted on 07/02/2013 12:10:34 PM PDT by i_robot73 (We hold that all individuals have the Right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives - LP.org)
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To: onyx
"Padlock and shut down," in that order. Oh, gee, thousands of IRS employees are trapped? What a shame.
62 posted on 07/02/2013 1:06:16 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina ("Better be wise by the misfortunes of others than by your own." -- Aesop)
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To: Redleg Duke
"You target one bloated agency, remove it and the legislation and EOs that enabled it, prove that the world didn't end. Then, you select the next bloated agency...repeat."

Al la sequestration. The world didn't end.

Allinsky rule #13 says "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." The IRS is against producers of all stripes. This can unite a cross section of very influential people and entities - not withstanding the fear of reprisal.

Producers can either initiate change through the various sources of their power (Legitimate e.g. resources, positive Purse String, Bureaucratic, Referent, Technical, or Charismatic), or they can withdraw from production and become a consumer of resources (pure negative Purse String power). Either path will diminish the power of "takers" over "producers".

It seems that lately on FR, pragmatism of the sort that you proposed will earn slings and arrows. Cruz, Paul and a few others are solid conservatives, but whenever they intimate any pragmatic solution to the manifold problems, each of which can tank our republic, so called "conservatives" howl that drugs, abortion, homosexuality, and anarchy will explode - never mind that Cruz and Paul are on record espousing traditional marriage, right to life, strong national defense, and the rule of law.

63 posted on 07/02/2013 1:08:49 PM PDT by uncommonsense (Liberals see what they believe; Conservatives believe what they see.)
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To: Viennacon

BTTT


64 posted on 07/02/2013 1:10:26 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: uncommonsense

Yes, they want instant solutions and gratification. We got into this mess incrementally and that is how we will get out of it.


65 posted on 07/02/2013 3:17:13 PM PDT by Redleg Duke ("Madison, Wisconsin is 30 square miles surrounded by reality.", L. S. Dryfus)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks onyx.
...the IRS targeted the nonprofit applications of conservative-leaning political groups... "After these revelations of political targeting by the IRS, we need to padlock and shut down the building, abolish the IRS, and move to a flat tax or the FAIR Tax."

66 posted on 07/02/2013 4:31:35 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thank you so much, SunkenCiv!


67 posted on 07/02/2013 4:33:38 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: onyx; All

Has their been any Bill introduced in the House to shutdown any Federal Government Department?


68 posted on 07/02/2013 5:38:48 PM PDT by mdittmar
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To: rawcatslyentist
Why stop at just one of the UnConstitutional alphabet agencies of tyranny?

How about we start with what gives the Government it's power, and kill that beast and then tackle one after another?
69 posted on 07/02/2013 10:25:59 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: onyx
Ted Cruz is the ONLY politician making sense.

LEAD Mr. Cruz the followers will appear.

70 posted on 07/02/2013 10:33:48 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: SoConPubbie
>"How about we start with what gives the Government it's power, and kill that beast and then tackle one after another?"

Now that's a plan!

71 posted on 07/02/2013 10:34:07 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: onyx

Yes, Ted, that would be a great start!

Next closure: Department of Education...

Then: EPA...

“Hey, hey NSA has to go!”

And so forth...

This closure thingy would be great fun, but afraid we’d have to have first the Second American Revolution and a Second Revolutionary War, as ruling classes seldom go quietly into the night.


72 posted on 07/03/2013 4:40:00 AM PDT by Darin1948
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To: WildHighlander57; Hostage
They say the fair tax percentage can’t be changed.
I'm not new to the Fairtax as Hostage is. I've been posting information that Fairtaxers like Hostage don't want you to know and in fact will lie through their teeth about since 1998.

The fact is regarding the rate(s), after the first year of implentation the Fairtax as it is written today allows unelected bureaucrats at Social Security to determine the Fairtax rate every year without a vote or oversight from any elected officials.

See HR25 Sect. 904 paragraphs (d) and (e).

73 posted on 07/04/2013 12:00:45 AM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: lewislynn; WildHighlander57

lewislynn is an anti-FairTax troll who disrupts every FairTax discussion on freerepublic.com.

He fails to understand that determining a rate and voting on a rate are two different activities.

For example, DHHS and the Census Bureau ‘determine’ the federal poverty line and poverty rate. These are determined by well worn formulae that have been means tested and are considered reliable estimates that have been used for decades. The estimates and determination are used by various branches and agencies of government including Congress for crafting legislation to be voted on.

What the FairTax is saying in Section 904 is the the Social Security Administration will ‘determine’ meaning calculate the rate for Social Security benefits and medicare services. The resultant estimates are then used by Congress when voting on a NRST rate every year.

The FairTax fully intends to preserve Social Security and Medicare because people have paid into these trusts and insurance programs and the government needs to keep their promises to those that have paid in.

Social Security and Medicare reform can still occur but when the FairTax is enacted it will stand alone and not attempt to change all of government except in the way taxes are levied, collected and enforced.

Of course as the FairTax is transparent to everyone, it will make more consumers aware of the cost of government in the everyday things they buy. So it will wake up the electorate to the cost of government and this will foment spending reforms.

*************************************************
H.R.25

Fair Tax Act of 2013 (Introduced in House - IH)
`SEC. 904. TRUST FUND REVENUE.

`(a) Secretary To Make Allocation of Sales Tax Revenue- The Secretary shall allocate the revenue received by virtue of the tax imposed by section 101 in accordance with this section. The revenue shall be allocated among—
`(1) the general revenue,
`(2) the old-age and survivors insurance trust fund,
`(3) the disability insurance trust fund,
`(4) the hospital insurance trust fund, and
`(5) the Federal supplementary medical insurance trust fund.
`(b) General Rule-
`(1) GENERAL REVENUE- The proportion of total revenue allocated to the general revenue shall be the same proportion as the rate in section 101(b)(4) bears to the combined Federal tax rate percentage (as defined in section 101(b)(3)).
`(2) The amount of revenue allocated to the old-age and survivors insurance and disability insurance trust funds shall be the same proportion as the old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate (as defined in subsection (d)) bears to the combined Federal tax rate percentage (as defined in section 101(b)(3)).
`(3) The amount of revenue allocated to the hospital insurance and Federal supplementary medical insurance trust funds shall be the same proportion as the hospital insurance rate (as defined in subsection (e)) bears to the combined Federal tax rate percentage (as defined in section 101(b)(3)).
`(c) Calendar Year 2015- Notwithstanding subsection (b), the revenue allocation pursuant to subsection (a) for calendar year 2015 shall be as follows:
`(1) 64.83 percent of total revenue to general revenue,
`(2) 27.43 percent of total revenue to the old-age and survivors insurance and disability insurance trust funds, and
`(3) 7.74 percent of total revenue to the hospital insurance and Federal supplementary medical insurance trust funds.
`(d) Old-Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance Rate- The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 12.4 percent tax on the Social Security wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the Calendar year for which it applies.
`(e) Hospital Insurance Rate- The hospital insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The hospital insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 2.9 percent tax on the Medicare wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the calendar year for which it applies.


74 posted on 07/04/2013 9:41:56 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Hostage; lewislynn

Flat tax, fair tax.... they both have in common the means to INCREASE the rates.

There once was a time in this country when there was no flat tax, fair tax, or income tax; what we had was PROTECTIVE TARIFFS on imports.

We ran just fine on that.


75 posted on 07/04/2013 11:29:09 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: Hostage
What the FairTax is saying in Section 904 is the the Social Security Administration will ‘determine’ meaning calculate the rate for Social Security benefits and medicare services
A quote from your copy and paste.
The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate
Ignorant?
Liar?
76 posted on 07/04/2013 12:29:36 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: onyx

I a tally saw an ad of his regarding the IRS on CNN! Floored the heck out of me. CNN!


77 posted on 07/04/2013 12:54:02 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Hostage
Since you brought it up for some unknown irrelevant reason:
For example, DHHS and the Census Bureau ‘determine’ the federal poverty line and poverty rate. These are determined by well worn formulae that have been means tested and are considered reliable estimates that have been used for decades. The estimates and determination are used by various branches and agencies of government including Congress for crafting legislation to be voted on.
To: taxcontrol

Why are you trying to pass yourself off as some kind of guru? Your knowledge is incomplete.

There are two versions of poverty calculations. The one used for the FairTax is not set by the Census Bureau.
Read: http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/07poverty.shtml

Paragraph 2. The FairTax uses the DHHS Poverty Guidelines, NOT the Census Bureau’s Poverty thresholds.

Got any more smart*ss remarks?

56 posted on 01/09/2008 3:45:20 PM PST by Hostage

Smart*ss indeed

78 posted on 07/04/2013 2:22:57 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: lewislynn

No disagreement. These are calculations resulting in estimates. They are provided to Congress who ‘votes’ on the overall NRST rate.

So what is your problem? You have a problem with government actuaries or contractors crunching numbers? Gee, don’t they do that now under the Internal Revenue Code? Ans: Yes.

Just admit it, you hate the FairTax and you will take any morsel that you can twist out of context to make it look sinister.

In other words, you’re a troll!


79 posted on 07/04/2013 2:46:34 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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