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Unclean at Any Speed, Electric cars don’t solve the automobile’s environmental problems
IEEE Spectrum ^ | 30 Jun 2013 | Ozzie Zehner

Posted on 07/02/2013 12:10:48 PM PDT by thackney

Last summer, California highway police pulled over pop star Justin Bieber as he sped through Los Angeles in an attempt to shake the paparazzi. He was driving a hybrid electric car—not just any hybrid, mind you, but a chrome-plated Fisker Karma, a US $100 000 plug-in hybrid sports sedan he’d received as an 18th-birthday gift from his manager, Scooter Braun, and fellow singer Usher. During an on-camera surprise presentation, Braun remarked, “We wanted to make sure, since you love cars, that when you are on the road you are always looking environmentally friendly, and we decided to get you a car that would make you stand out a little bit.” Mission accomplished.

Bieber joins a growing list of celebrities, environmentalists, and politicians who are leveraging electric cars into green credentials. President Obama once dared to envision 1 million electric cars plying U.S. roads by 2015. London’s mayor, Boris Johnson, vibrated to the press over his born-again electric conversion after driving a Tesla Roadster, marveling how the American sports coupe produced “no more noxious vapours than a dandelion in an alpine meadow.” Meanwhile, environmentalists who once stood entirely against the proliferation of automobiles now champion subsidies for companies selling electric cars and tax credits for people buying them.

Two dozen governments around the world subsidize the purchase of electric vehicles. In Canada, for example, the governments of Ontario and Quebec pay drivers up to C $8500 to drive an electric car. The United Kingdom offers a £5000 Plug-in Car Grant. And the U.S. federal government provides up to $7500 in tax credits for people who buy plug-in electric vehicles, even though many of them are affluent enough not to need such help. (The average Chevy Volt owner, for example, has an income of $170 000 per year.)

Some states offer additional tax incentives. California brings the total credit up to $10 000, and Colorado to $13 500—more than the base price of a brand new Ford Fiesta. West Virginia offers the sweetest deal. The state’s mining interests are salivating at the possibility of shifting automotive transportation from petroleum over to coal. Residents can receive a total credit of up to $15 000 for an electric-car purchase and up to $10 000 toward the cost of a personal charging station.

There are other perks. Ten U.S. states open the high-occupancy lanes of their highways to electric cars, even if the car carries a lone driver. Numerous stores offer VIP parking for electric vehicles—and sometimes a free fill-up of electrons. Mayor Johnson even moved to relieve electric-car owners of the burden of London’s famed congestion fee.

Alas, these carrots can’t overcome the reality that the prices of electric cars are still very high—a reflection of the substantial material and fossil-fuel costs that accrue to the companies constructing them. And some taxpayers understandably feel cheated that these subsidies tend to go to the very rich. Amid all the hype and hyperbole, it’s time to look behind the curtain. Are electric cars really so green?

The idea of electrifying automobiles to get around their environmental shortcomings isn’t new. Twenty years ago, I myself built a hybrid electric car that could be plugged in or run on natural gas. It wasn’t very fast, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t safe. But I was convinced that cars like mine would help reduce both pollution and fossil-fuel dependence.

I was wrong.

I’ve come to this conclusion after many years of studying environmental issues more deeply and taking note of some important questions we need to ask ourselves as concerned citizens. Mine is an unpopular stance, to be sure. The suggestive power of electric cars is a persuasive force—so persuasive that answering the seemingly simple question “Are electric cars indeed green?” quickly gets complicated.

As with most anything else, the answer depends on whom you ask. Dozens of think tanks and scientific organizations have ventured conclusions about the environmental friendliness of electric vehicles. Most are supportive, but a few are critical. For instance, Richard Pike of the Royal Society of Chemistry provocatively determined that electric cars, if widely adopted, stood to lower Britain’s carbon dioxide emissions by just 2 percent, given the U.K.’s electricity sources. Last year, a U.S. Congressional Budget Office study found that electric car subsidies “will result in little or no reduction in the total gasoline use and greenhouse-gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.”

Others are more supportive, including the Union of Concerned Scientists. Its 2012 report [PDF] on the issue, titled “State of Charge,” notes that charging electric cars yields less CO2 than even the most efficient gasoline vehicles. The report’s senior editor, engineer Don Anair, concludes: “We are at a good point to clean up the grid and move to electric vehicles.”

Why is the assessment so mixed? Ultimately, it’s because this is not just about science. It’s about values, which inevitably shape what questions the researchers ask as well as what they choose to count and what they don’t. That’s true for many kinds of research, of course, but for electric cars, bias abounds, although it’s often not obvious to the casual observer.

To get a sense of how biases creep in, first follow the money. Most academic programs carrying out electric-car research receive funding from the auto industry. For instance, the Plug-in Hybrid and Electric Vehicle Research Center at the University of California, Davis, which describes itself as the “hub of collaboration and research on plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles for the State of California,” acknowledges on its website partnerships with BMW, Chrysler-Fiat, and Nissan, all of which are selling or developing electric and hybrid models. Stanford’s Global Climate & Energy Project, which publishes research on electric vehicles, has received more than $113 million from four firms: ExxonMobil, General Electric, Schlumberger, and Toyota. Georgetown University, MIT, the universities of Colorado, Delaware, and Michigan, and numerous other schools also accept corporate sponsorship for their electric-vehicle research.

I’m not suggesting that corporate sponsorship automatically leads people to massage their research data. But it can shape findings in more subtle ways. For one, it influences which studies get done and therefore which ones eventually receive media attention. After all, companies direct money to researchers who are asking the kinds of questions that stand to benefit their industry. An academic who is studying, say, car-free communities is less likely to receive corporate funding than a colleague who is engineering vehicle-charging stations.

Many of the researchers crafting electric-vehicle studies are eager proponents of the technology. An electric-vehicle report from Indiana University’s School of Environmental Affairs, for instance, was led by a former vice president of Ford. It reads like a set of public relations talking points and contains advertising recommendations for the electric-car industry (that it should manage customers’ expectations, to avoid a backlash from excessive claims). Even the esteemed Union of Concerned Scientists clad its electric-car report in romantic marketing imagery courtesy of Ford, General Motors, and Nissan, companies whose products it evaluates. Indeed, it’s very difficult to find researchers who are looking at the environmental merits of electric cars with a disinterested eye.

So how do you gauge the environmental effects of electric cars when the experts writing about them all seem to be unquestioned car enthusiasts? It’s tough. Another impediment to evaluating electric cars is that it’s difficult to compare the various vehicle-fueling options. It’s relatively easy to calculate the amount of energy required to charge a vehicle’s battery. It isn’t so straightforward, however, to compare a battery that’s been charged by electricity from a natural-gas-fired power plant with one that’s been charged using nuclear power. Natural gas requires burning, it produces CO2, and it often demands environmentally problematic methods to release it from the ground. Nuclear power yields hard-to-store wastes as well as proliferation and fallout risks. There’s no clear-cut way to compare those impacts. Focusing only on greenhouse gases, however important, misses much of the picture.

Manufacturers and marketing agencies exploit the fact that every power source carries its own unique portfolio of side effects to create the terms of discussion that best suit their needs. Electric-car makers like to point out, for instance, that their vehicles can be charged from renewable sources, such as solar energy. Even if that were possible to do on a large scale, manufacturing the vast number of photovoltaic cells required would have venomous side effects. Solar cells contain heavy metals, and their manufacturing releases greenhouse gases such as sulfur hexafluoride, which has 23 000 times as much global warming potential as CO2, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What’s more, fossil fuels are burned in the extraction of the raw materials needed to make solar cells and wind turbines—and for their fabrication, assembly, and maintenance. The same is true for the redundant backup power plants they require. And even more fossil fuel is burned when all this equipment is decommissioned. Electric-car proponents eagerly embrace renewable energy as a scheme to power their machines, but they conveniently ignore the associated environmental repercussions.

Finally, most electric-car assessments analyze only the charging of the car. This is an important factor indeed. But a more rigorous analysis would consider the environmental impacts over the vehicle’s entire life cycle, from its construction through its operation and on to its eventual retirement at the junkyard.

One study attempted to paint a complete picture. Published by the National Academies in 2010 and overseen by two dozen of the United States’ leading scientists, it is perhaps the most comprehensive account of electric-car effects to date. Its findings are sobering.

It’s worth noting that this investigation was commissioned by the U.S. Congress and therefore funded entirely with public, not corporate, money. As with many earlier studies, it found that operating an electric car was less damaging than refueling a gasoline-powered one. It isn’t that simple, however, according to Maureen Cropper, the report committee’s vice chair and a professor of economics at the University of Maryland. “Whether we are talking about a conventional gasoline-powered automobile, an electric vehicle, or a hybrid, most of the damages are actually coming from stages other than just the driving of the vehicle,” she points out.

Part of the impact arises from manufacturing. Because battery packs are heavy (the battery accounts for more than a third of the weight of the Tesla Roadster, for example), manufacturers work to lighten the rest of the vehicle. As a result, electric car components contain many lightweight materials that are energy intensive to produce and process—carbon composites and aluminum in particular. Electric motors and batteries add to the energy of electric-car manufacture.

In addition, the magnets in the motors of some electric vehicles contain rare earth metals. Curiously, these metals are not as rare as their name might suggest. They are, however, sprinkled thinly across the globe, making their extraction uneconomical in most places. In a study released last year, a group of MIT researchers calculated that global mining of two rare earth metals, neodymium and dysprosium, would need to increase 700 percent and 2600 percent, respectively, over the next 25 years to keep pace with various green-tech plans. Complicating matters is the fact that China, the world’s leading producer of rare earths, has been attempting to restrict its exports of late. Substitute strategies exist, but deploying them introduces trade-offs in efficiency or cost.

The materials used in batteries are no less burdensome to the environment, the MIT study noted. Compounds such as lithium, copper, and nickel must be coaxed from the earth and processed in ways that demand energy and can release toxic wastes. And in regions with poor regulations, mineral extraction can extend risks beyond just the workers directly involved. Surrounding populations may be exposed to toxic substances through air and groundwater contamination.

At the end of their useful lives, batteries can also pose a problem. If recycled properly, the compounds are rather benign—although not something you’d want to spread on a bagel. But handled improperly, disposed batteries can release toxic chemicals. Such factors are difficult to measure, though, which is why they are often left out of studies on electric-car impacts.

The National Academies’ assessment didn’t ignore those difficult-to-measure realities. It drew together the effects of vehicle construction, fuel extraction, refining, emissions, and other factors. In a gut punch to electric-car advocates, it concluded that the vehicles’ lifetime health and environmental damages (excluding long-term climatic effects) are actually greater than those of gasoline-powered cars. Indeed, the study found that an electric car is likely worse than a car fueled exclusively by gasoline derived from Canadian tar sands!

As for greenhouse-gas emissions and their influence on future climate, the researchers didn’t ignore those either. The investigators, like many others who have probed this issue, found that electric vehicles generally produce fewer of these emissions than their gasoline- or diesel-fueled counterparts—but only marginally so when full life-cycle effects are accounted for. The lifetime difference in greenhouse-gas emissions between vehicles powered by batteries and those powered by low-sulfur diesel, for example, was hardly discernible.

The National Academies’ study stood out for its comprehensiveness, but it’s not the only one to make such grim assessments. A Norwegian study published last October in the Journal of Industrial Ecology compared life-cycle impacts of electric vehicles. The researchers considered acid rain, airborne particulates, water pollution, smog, and toxicity to humans, as well as depletion of fossil fuel and mineral resources. According to coauthor Anders Stromman, “electric vehicles consistently perform worse or on par with modern internal combustion engine vehicles, despite virtually zero direct emissions during operation.”

Earlier last year, investigators from the University of Tennessee studied five vehicle types in 34 Chinese cities and came to a similar conclusion. These researchers focused on health impacts from emissions and particulate matter such as airborne acids, organic chemicals, metals, and dust particles. For a conventional vehicle, these are worst in urban areas, whereas the emissions associated with electric vehicles are concentrated in the less populated regions surrounding China’s mostly coal-fired power stations. Even when this difference of exposure was taken into account, however, the total negative health consequences of electric vehicles in China exceeded those of conventional vehicles.

North American power station emissions also largely occur outside of urban areas, as do the damaging consequences of nuclear- and fossil-fuel extraction. And that leads to some critical questions. Do electric cars simply move pollution from upper-middle-class communities in Beverly Hills and Virginia Beach to poor communities in the backwaters of West Virginia and the nation’s industrial exurbs? Are electric cars a sleight of hand that allows peace of mind for those who are already comfortable at the expense of intensifying asthma, heart problems, and radiation risks among the poor and politically disconnected?

The hope, of course, is that electric-car technology and power grids will improve and become cleaner over time. Modern electric-car technology is still quite young, so it should get much better. But don’t expect batteries, solar cells, and other clean-energy technologies to ride a Moore’s Law–like curve of exponential development. Rather, they’ll experience asymptotic growth toward some ultimate efficiency ceiling. When the National Academies researchers projected technology advancements and improvement to the U.S. electrical grid out to 2030, they still found no benefit to driving an electric vehicle.

If those estimates are correct, the sorcery surrounding electric cars stands to worsen public health and the environment rather than the intended opposite. But even if the researchers are wrong, there is a more fundamental illusion at work on the electric-car stage.

All of the aforementioned studies compare electric vehicles with petroleum-powered ones. In doing so, their findings draw attention away from the broad array of transportation options available—such as walking, bicycling, and using mass transit.

There’s no doubt that gasoline- and diesel-fueled cars are expensive and dirty. Road accidents kill tens of thousands of people annually in the United States alone and injure countless more. Using these kinds of vehicles as a standard against which to judge another technology sets a remarkably low bar. Even if electric cars someday clear that bar, how will they stack up against other alternatives?

For instance, if policymakers wish to reduce urban smog, they might note that vehicle pollution follows the Pareto principle, or 80-20 rule. Some 80 percent of tailpipe pollutants flow from just 20 percent of vehicles on the road—those with incomplete combustion. Using engineering and remote monitoring stations, communities could identify those cars and force them into the shop. That would be far less expensive and more effective than subsidizing a fleet of electric cars.

If legislators truly wish to reduce fossil-fuel dependence, they could prioritize the transition to pedestrian- and bike-friendly neighborhoods. That won’t be easy everywhere—even less so where the focus is on electric cars. Studies from the National Academies point to better land-use planning to reduce suburban sprawl and, most important, fuel taxes to reduce petroleum dependence. Following that prescription would solve many problems that a proliferation of electric cars could not begin to address—including automotive injuries, deaths, and the frustrations of being stuck in traffic.

Upon closer consideration, moving from petroleum-fueled vehicles to electric cars begins to look more and more like shifting from one brand of cigarettes to another. We wouldn’t expect doctors to endorse such a thing. Should environmentally minded people really revere electric cars? Perhaps we should look beyond the shiny gadgets now being offered and revisit some less sexy but potent options—smog reduction, bike lanes, energy taxes, and land-use changes to start. Let’s not be seduced by high-tech illusions.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: brilliant; carbontax; cars; efv; electric; electriccars; energy; environment; environmentalism; green; greenillusions; greens; illusion; kenyanbornmuzzie; opec; ozziezehner; pages; waroncarbon; zehner

1 posted on 07/02/2013 12:10:48 PM PDT by thackney
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To: thackney

Duh. Thinking people have known this for a long time. Cradle to grave, electric cars are NOT more environmentally friendly than internal combustion cars.


2 posted on 07/02/2013 12:21:51 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: HerrBlucher

Plus, if only one third of the people in your neighborhood/my neighborhood suddenly bought an electric vehicle, the current infrastructure for charging these things would be woefully inadequate.


3 posted on 07/02/2013 12:29:58 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Tactical Awareness. Use your brain. Then bring the pain.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

How do you get to post more than three hundred words??????


4 posted on 07/02/2013 12:39:16 PM PDT by Hojczyk
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To: HerrBlucher

HerrBlucher ~:” Duh. Thinking people have known this for a long time. Cradle to grave, electric cars are NOT more environmentally friendly than internal combustion cars.”

Most people’s simplistic thoughts about electric cars; sorta like thinking that all “ milk comes from a milk jug “.
They never think about it logicaly.
My understanding is that current batteries are woefully inefficient as ‘power storage units’.
I recall a statement that it takes 16 -18 times the power in order to load electrical power into a battery ,
and that electric generation has to come from some source (natural gas , coal , hydro, wind, solar ).


5 posted on 07/02/2013 12:47:43 PM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt (“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” - Ronald Reagan)
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To: thackney

There is no free ride. The energy to push a car must come from somewhere. In an electric car, it comes from the batteries. The batteries get their energy from electricity. The electricity gets its energy from a generating station, which gets its energy from coal/oil or some other fossil fuel.
Every conversion of energy involves a loss of energy, in the form of heat.
This is obvious to someone who last took physics in high school.

Making the batteries involves an energy cost. Disposing of them when they fail (inevitable) involves a cost.


6 posted on 07/02/2013 12:48:28 PM PDT by I want the USA back (If I Pi$$ed off just one liberal today my mission has been accomplished.)
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To: Hojczyk

IEEE Spetrum, and many other sources, do not require excerpting.


7 posted on 07/02/2013 12:48:36 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Hojczyk

or rather IEEE “Spectrum”, when spelled correctly...


8 posted on 07/02/2013 12:50:14 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
Compounds such as lithium, copper, and nickel

These are, of course, elements not compounds.

9 posted on 07/02/2013 12:50:50 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: thackney

It’s not about efficiency, saving fuel, cleaning the air or saving the planet. It’s about feeling morally superior while driving around in an electric vehicle.


10 posted on 07/02/2013 12:51:08 PM PDT by I want the USA back (If I Pi$$ed off just one liberal today my mission has been accomplished.)
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To: thackney
Studies from the National Academies point to better land-use planning to reduce suburban sprawl and, most important, fuel taxes to reduce petroleum dependence. Following that prescription would solve many problems that a proliferation of electric cars could not begin to address—including automotive injuries, deaths, and the frustrations of being stuck in traffic.

Even when they are telling you that the Electric Car’s greenness is mythical they can’t help but tell you that some other nanny state restrictions on freedom will make everything all better.

11 posted on 07/02/2013 12:51:35 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Should have “Compounds made from”...


12 posted on 07/02/2013 12:52:51 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: I want the USA back

I ran all the numbers once, and if I remember aright the electric cars were something like 20% more efficient just going down the road.


13 posted on 07/02/2013 12:52:56 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: thackney

Yup. Though copper is often used as an element.


14 posted on 07/02/2013 12:53:40 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

Their wind/rolling resistance may be 20% less than that of vehicles not specifically-designed for peak performace in those areas, but they also have a lot of losses in getting the electrical energy from where it’s generated to where it ultimately goes into the battery.


15 posted on 07/02/2013 1:05:09 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: I want the USA back

That, and wanting everyone who sees you to know you’re morally superior.


16 posted on 07/02/2013 1:05:56 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Tilted Irish Kilt

“I recall a statement that it takes 16 -18 times the power in order to load electrical power into a battery”

No, it’s nowhere near that bad. There are losses in the generating, transmission, and charging stages, but as the article states, even with those the electric cars are still about on par, or slightly better than gasoline powered cars. Most modern gasoline powered cars manage only about 25% thermal efficiency (diesels are quite a bit better). Thermal generating stations (coal, oil, natural gas) can manage close to 50% thermal efficiency in generating electricity, although most of that advantage is subsequently lost in (as mentioned) transmission and charging losses. Plus electricity can be generated from relatively non-polluting and/or renewable resources, such as wind, solar, nuclear, etc (although the latter 2 of those typically have some major issues as grid electricity sources).

The major problem with electric cars, as I see it, is that they just aren’t as practical or flexible as internal-combustion powered cars. Heavy, limited storage space (as the battery packs take up quite a bit a room) and limited range (that’s the big one, and not close to being economically solved, yet). Plus there’s little environmental benefit in them, and they cost more - so what’s the point?


17 posted on 07/02/2013 1:08:07 PM PDT by -YYZ- (Strong like bull, smart like tractor.)
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The good old days


help support the most conservative online site
donate today!

18 posted on 07/02/2013 1:10:06 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: All


Join a growing number of FReepers
and become a monthly donor!
please click the pic and sign up today
Sponsors will contribute $10 for each new monthly sign-up

19 posted on 07/02/2013 1:11:25 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: All
My apologies to you all for that last post. I'm a bit tired and thought this was the FReepathon thread.

Ack.

20 posted on 07/02/2013 1:12:57 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: -YYZ-

I think another big disadvantage of electrics, beyond mere range, is the time it takes to recharge a battery vs the time needed to fill a gas tank. I think people would be willing to stop every 50 miles or so to recharge the battery if such recharging took about the same time as a current fill up does. However, if I am not mistaken, doesn’t it take several hours to recharge a battery in an electric car? If so, I think that’s likely a deal breaker. Certainly, some might use electrics for their daily commutes if the economics worked out, but for a long-distance trip, that’s certainly impractical.


21 posted on 07/02/2013 1:19:02 PM PDT by stremba
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To: stremba

stremba :” .. big disadvantage of electrics, beyond mere range, is the time it takes to recharge a battery vs the time needed to fill a gas tank..”

Right ! You hit the main reason : INCONVENIENCE !
We have been conditioned to the ‘quick fill up “


22 posted on 07/02/2013 1:26:55 PM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt (“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” - Ronald Reagan)
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To: thackney

Electric cars make no sense at all, unless you’re obsenely wealthy, and have numerous vehicles to play with.

An electric car will cost you your life in a real emergency.


23 posted on 07/02/2013 1:29:00 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Tilted Irish Kilt

No, the main reason is practical safety for your family.


24 posted on 07/02/2013 1:31:17 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: stremba

I wouldn’t want to drive any significant distance in a car if I had to stop and fill the tank every 50 miles, even if it only took 5 minutes. Every 200 miles might be OK, and the best electric cars currently on the market (Tesla) can manage about that, apparently, in ideal circumstances.

There are technologies in the works which may allow charging in significantly less time (i.e. 10-15 minutes), although the mind boggles at the type of electrical infrastructure necessary to support that - we’re talking some very large current flows. Another possibility would be a system of interchangeable batteries.

I still think that, even with all those technological improvements, the net benefit would be very small if not non-existent.


25 posted on 07/02/2013 1:37:00 PM PDT by -YYZ- (Strong like bull, smart like tractor.)
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To: thackney
CleanCar photo IDriveACleanCar.jpg
26 posted on 07/02/2013 2:40:14 PM PDT by preacher (Communism has only killed 100 million people: Let's give it another chance!)
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To: thackney


27 posted on 07/02/2013 2:56:18 PM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To the left the truth looks like Right-Wing extremism.)
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To: thackney
Coal powered cars since they plug in.

Therefore Obama’s War on Coal is also a war on electric cars.

28 posted on 07/02/2013 3:22:21 PM PDT by PATRIOT1876 (The only crimes that are 100% preventable are crimes committed by illegal aliens)
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To: thackney
I suspect that if we had a really comprehensive study, like some of these are attempting, we may find that the most environmentally efficient car would be something like this: a 1925 Doble Series E Steam Car.
29 posted on 07/02/2013 3:59:01 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Pontiac
Studies from the National Academies point to better land-use planning to reduce suburban sprawl and, most important, fuel taxes to reduce petroleum dependence. Following that prescription would solve many problems that a proliferation of electric cars could not begin to address — including automotive injuries, deaths, and the frustrations of being stuck in traffic.

Yes. But look at the bright side. This bias - along with his unquestionable experience in the technology, economics and politics of electric cars - pretty much confirms the undeniable cred of the author as the "green" environmentalist, yet...

Yet he condemns the electric car as an unacceptable "dirtier" alternative to the internal combustion engine cars on the purely environmental basis.

I don't think you can find many people who the "greenies" would find so difficult to argue with as this author. I'd rather have him acknowledging and proving his bias / "green cred" right in the article that annihilates the "green electric car" myth than 10 equally qualified conservatives or libertarians.

30 posted on 07/02/2013 8:18:20 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: -YYZ-

Oh, I personally wouldn’t want to drive such a car either. That would be a huge PITA. I just think there are enough “greenie weinies” out there who might drive the electric cars if it didn’t take hours to recharge, especially the ones who aren’t really doing it to help the environment, but rather to feel morally superior to the rest of us.


31 posted on 07/03/2013 6:06:41 AM PDT by stremba
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To: stremba

I should amend that: I wouldn’t want to drive such a vehicle, unless that vehicle cost half as much as standard car, and was cheaper to maintain and fuel, and this is accomplished without artificial government subsidies. I’d put up with some inconvenience if it saved me enough money. I’m sure there are many others who feel the same way; the free market works.


32 posted on 07/03/2013 6:09:47 AM PDT by stremba
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Nobody can afford it.

Charging Station $1400
Extended DistSys in the house say $800
New Panelboard & breakers, for add’l 40A circuit say $2000
Upgrade from 100/125Amp panel to say 200/250Amp panel
Go to a 400A switchgear center and add $7.5k
Possibly upgrade Xformer, say $30k
x2 for labor
About $20k-80k depending on situation.

That assumes the infrastructure can handle it.

Now add a 10k PV power source,..about another $120k +$5-$20k battery maint/annum

Now add the cost of power.
Most players have their usage rate increased, not decreased when they begin to charge the vehicles. Your existing power costs will on average increase between 20% to 120% monthly, plus the new power load of charging the battery.

You might save $300/year in fuel costs, for the initial capital outlay of $20k-$200k.


33 posted on 07/03/2013 7:00:44 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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