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Late Pope John Paul II to get sainthood, Vatican says
CNN ^ | Hada Messia

Posted on 07/05/2013 12:23:49 PM PDT by Morgana

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To: SoCalTransplant; NYer
Thank you for yuour sincee and refreshing comments.

We all know there are lots of people in heaven who are not pew-sitting, dues-paying Catholics. But canonization basically means you're an exemplary Catholic now in heaven with Jesus or Lord ---so actually, we can't canonize non-Cathoics, but we expect to see y'all hereafter.

In the Love of God forever!

I think--- NYer, listen up -- I think the Eastern Catholics --- or some of them -- have the holy OT Jews on their liturgical calendar, like St. Moses and so forth. Is this true?

We have the Holy Innocents, who were, after all, Jewish Babies in Bethlehem, not baptized Catholics.

101 posted on 07/20/2013 6:45:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my all.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“Canonization just means a formal recognition of that fact,”

Then be Biblical, Canonize every Christian.


102 posted on 07/20/2013 6:58:40 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacituss)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Couldn’t fit all their names on the Calendar :o)


103 posted on 07/20/2013 7:05:02 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my all.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“Couldn’t fit all their names on the Calendar :o)”

:-)


104 posted on 07/20/2013 7:11:11 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacituss)
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To: wideawake
"It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another."

- Pope John Paul II, Inaestimabile Donum (April, 1980) -

Put that in your pompous pipe and smoke it.

Note that the future saint said "consecrated bread", not the "Body of Christ"!

No wonder he changed his mind later and started dishing out in the paw.


105 posted on 07/20/2013 7:22:23 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Mrs. Don-o; SoCalTransplant; Heart-Rest
I think--- NYer, listen up -- I think the Eastern Catholics --- or some of them -- have the holy OT Jews on their liturgical calendar, like St. Moses and so forth. Is this true?

Indeed, we do. Here are some of the Jewish saints on our calendar:

April 3 - Isaiah and Ezekiel, the Prophets
May 1 - Jeremiah the Prophet
May 23 - Tobias the Prophet
June 14 - Elisha the Prophet

One of the more interesting ones is

St. Shmouni and her 7 sons (Jewish martyrs) whose feast day is August 1. Their martyrdom took place around the year 170 before the birth of Christ, under the reign of the Syrian king, Antiochus Epiphanes. This king attempted to impose the pagan cult of Jupiter upon the Jewish people and even desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem. Under the threat of persecution and even death many Jews abandoned their religion.

According to an ancient tradition, it is said that the death of Shmooni and her sons took place in Antioch, and from there the relics of these martyrs were brought to Constantinople and finally Rome where they rest in the Church of Saint Peter in Chains.

Although her name is not mentioned, tradition gives the mother the name of Shmooni or Salome. The account of the death of the mother and sons is found in chapter 7 of the Second Book of Maccabees. The story of their martyrdom teaches us of their fidelity to the Jewish traditions, the great mercy of God for his people, their hope in the resurrection of the body, of God's reward to those who are faithful to him and of his judgement on those who turn away. Shmooni's example of faith as she saw her sons slowly put to death should be a sign to us when our faith is tested. May the prayers of Shomooni and her seven sons be with us. Amen.

106 posted on 07/20/2013 7:29:48 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: ebb tide

Well with WYD starting next week in Rio, it should be a healing balm which is so much needed.


107 posted on 07/20/2013 7:38:29 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: wideawake

The Holy Spirit, not any human, delivers the authentic interpretation. Because people are imperfect, they do not always get it completely right. That is understood. Perfection is not needed for usefulness. However when any one group of men stands up and says they are the Authorized Christian Club, then God will swiftly break outside of the artificial bounds they set.


108 posted on 07/20/2013 8:33:03 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Well it isn’t yet on the order of magnitude of the Jewish Talmud and what they did to the Old Testament... but give it time


109 posted on 07/20/2013 8:35:58 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: Biggirl

You’re talking about the planned world’s biggest flash mob at the World Yutes Day, with the approval of Rome?

That’s healing balm? That’s more like salt in the wounds of the Crucified Christ.


110 posted on 07/20/2013 8:39:56 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Mrs. Don-o; NYer

One of the things that I look forward to most is God sitting us down and going “OK, well, now, lets see, the Baptists had this part right, the Catholics had this part right, the Presbyterians had this part right” and so on...

I’m of the firm conviction that as Christians come more and more under attack nationally and internationally, its becoming more and more critical that we stand together and set down differences that aren’t essential, rather than trying to go for the long knives over sprinkling vs. total immersion or such things. Not that you or I in our respective denominations have to change our views on any given thing, but the standard for unity needs to be if someone believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. If you are trusting in Him to get you to heaven, the details don’t need to matter when it comes to recognizing brethren in Christ.

We might as well start getting along now, we’re going to be together for a very, very long time!


111 posted on 07/20/2013 8:52:07 PM PDT by SoCalTransplant (Wake me when we get to the part where we alter or abolish it.)
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To: wideawake

Vagueness is this one’s stock in trade.


112 posted on 07/20/2013 9:04:52 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: NYer

This is wonderful. I had never heard of Shmooni (Salome). The reading about the heroic mother and her seven martyred sons is one of the most solemn and tragic in the Bible. And yet hopeful, as they believed with all their hearts in the coming of the Messiah and the Resurrection of the Body. It impresses me so much, every time.

Thank you.


113 posted on 07/21/2013 4:18:08 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my all.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Either Christ founded a Church, or He didn't. If He did, it has authority from Him to make judgments --- as He told us.

"Authorized Christian Club"? What a derisive term for this Church for whom He laid down His life. It is His Body; it is the Bride of Christ.

114 posted on 07/21/2013 4:24:14 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("If they refuse to listen even to the Church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.")
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To: ebb tide; Biggirl

flash mob? There will be hundreds of priests there to hear Confessions. There will be a whole week of catechising. Flash mobs don’t do that.


115 posted on 07/21/2013 4:26:53 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("If they refuse to listen even to the Church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Bless you PaleobBob!

May you be blessed here and hereafter!


Well thank you, Mrs. D.

My people came to the USA from Russia on my father’s side and Poland on my mother’s side. Those who did NOT come here perished under Stalin, best we can tell. But how many families were finally SAVED by the work of John Paul II and the others who courageously took down the evil empire? Millions upon millions, that’s how many.

While there might be some technical, theological definition of the word “saint” and sainthood, to me, those who save millions ARE saints and will always BE saints—and they don’t even have to be Christians much less Catholics for a place in my personal pantheon.

The man used his standing in the world to save millions. End of story.


116 posted on 07/21/2013 4:42:08 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: Sirius Lee

Sedevacantist.


117 posted on 07/21/2013 4:44:07 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: SoCalTransplant; NYer
SoCal, thanks again for the good comments.

If you take a good look at history, you will see that the Muslims invaders swarmed into Christendom repeatedly, at exactly the times when the Christians were disunited. They invaded and conquered the Middle East and SW Asia with lightning speed because of the various Christians there (Nestorians, Jacobites, non-Calcedonian Orthodox, etc.) not being able to get it together. In around 710 AD or thereabouts, they crossed Gibraltar and invaded Spain because the Christians were fighting each other. In that case, I think it was Catholic Christians vs the Visigothic lords, who were Arian Christians.

Not always doctrinal splits. Probably not hardly doctrine at all. Just bellicose, personally ambitious, corrupt Christian princes and dukes and such, fighting each other for lands, power.

When the Muslims again hit the eastern and southern borders of Europe ---Vienna, Prague, Malta, Otranto --- they were exploiting the chaos of the wars of religion in Europe, Catholic vs Protestant vs Anabaptist. It was very hard to scrape together a tattered Catholic army to fight the Muslims, though fight we did --- and prevailed by God's mercy.

Read Chesterton's "Lepanto." Fine, fine poem, in my opinion; and what a miracle that the 23-year-old commander Don John of Austria and his patched-together coalition could beat back the most powerful fleet ever assembled on the seas--- the galleys of the Ottoman Empire, rowed by shackled Christian slaves! If the Muslims prevail, it will because Christians have already surrendered everything to secularism --- which is to say, to money, genitals and the belly --- and that we are fighting each other rather than carrying the Gospel to the all nations.

118 posted on 07/21/2013 6:30:58 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." - Jesus Christ - Matthew 19:17)
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To: ebb tide

NO.

Besides a FIRM NO, a gentle correction is in order.

First of all, it gives the RISEN KING OF KINGS Jesus GLORY when young people make a special holy pilgrimage to cites such as Rio, Madrid, Sidney, etc., to not only not be able to get closer to God but also be witnesses for the good news of the Gospel of Jesus.

Second because of WYD in years past, there has been an increase in vocations to the priesthood and religous life as well. So WYD has in that comment has produce good fruit.

Third, the young people ARE the future of the RC Church and gatherings such as WYD MUST be considered like a BIG spiritual retreat.

Any questions?


119 posted on 07/21/2013 6:52:38 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

It was that battle that saved the west from falling to Islam.


120 posted on 07/21/2013 6:54:58 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

When I saw the posting, I was taken a bit back. I have from my parish alone, 3 young persons who during the past year had done a number of fundraisers to help with the costs of going to Rio. They left yesterday and joined with young people from 3 other parishes to go to Rio. God Bless them.


121 posted on 07/21/2013 6:58:48 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

Well said, Biggirl, well said!!


122 posted on 07/21/2013 7:04:42 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my all.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I’m saying the church is believer-wide. And that it’s an error for the Roman Catholic Church to say the church founded by Christ — which He did so through the keys of faith — is restricted to it. You can only take offense by begging the question. The believer-wide church gets authority to make judgments inasmuch as it will faithfully obey the Holy Spirit. I am saying that it appears that no earthly Christian congregation is completely faithfully obeying the Holy Spirit. And this would be an issue except that complete faithful obedience is not possible until salvation is complete and Christ already allows for that.

In a nutshell: I am one of those crazy evangelicals. But not so crazy as to say there is not a valid (if imperfect) practice of Christianity within the present day Roman Catholic Church.


123 posted on 07/21/2013 12:02:56 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank-you!


124 posted on 07/21/2013 12:07:07 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: SoCalTransplant

How true and it a special way at a time when Christians in the Middle East are suffering and dying for their faith in Jesus.

The focus should be on Jesus and the Gospel.


125 posted on 07/21/2013 12:11:35 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

By the way, please try not to feel too bad about what I’m saying even if (as you probably do) you beg most strongly to disagree. The problem of “church tainted by man” is pan-Christian, I am not tarring the Roman Catholics alone. It’s all too obvious in some of the more self-arrogant branches of evangelicaldom and I see it very frequently. But I try not to get brittle over it, because it won’t go away until all Christians’ salvation is complete.

I agree very much with all the good things you said about the church of Christ. I disagree with you about its scope and foundational nature. I hope if you at least see my point of view you will not be quite so scandalized over the terms I am using.


126 posted on 07/21/2013 12:11:48 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Plus Rio is the home of that famous statue on that mountain showing what looks like the risen Jesus.


127 posted on 07/21/2013 12:12:47 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“Christ The Redeemer” statue.


128 posted on 07/21/2013 12:17:20 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"I’m saying the church is believer-wide. And that it’s an error for the Roman Catholic Church to say the church founded by Christ — which He did so through the keys of faith — is restricted to it."

We (Catholics) agree with you on this: we DO accept that the Church is believer-wide; and we DO NOT say that the Church is restricted to the members of Roman Catholicism. If you thought our doctrine of "Church" excluded any believer in Christ -- well, that's a mistake. That's not what we believe.

" it appears that no earthly Christian congregation is completely faithfully obeying the Holy Spirit."

Right again. The Church is full of sinners. A category which includes all of us in fact. None of us have been completely faithful.

Now, this is the best part of all:

"In a nutshell: I am one of those crazy evangelicals. But not so crazy as to say there is not a valid (if imperfect) practice of Christianity within the present day Roman Catholic Church."

This is like in a poker game: "I'll see your "valid if imperfect" and raise you (from the Catechism): that you, brother crazy evangelical, are "certainly, but imperfectly" Catholic!"

(Quickly putting on the Helmet of Salvation and expecting some kind of incoming, there...)

Catechism, check thou it out (Link)

So there thou goest! That's enough commonality for a drink and a do-si-do, I sincerely hope?

129 posted on 07/21/2013 1:44:43 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Biggirl

Yes, most impressive -— with the mountains all around and the huge river and the sea -— Jesus blesses the world!


130 posted on 07/21/2013 1:46:19 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Christus vincit! Christus regnat! Christus imperat!)
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To: ebb tide

An it is his fault, how?

Just behind there is correlation, doesn’t mean there is causation.

People enjoy having their ears tickled. They also enjoy being freed of responsibility. Each person who has defected from the Church, has done so of their own will.


131 posted on 07/21/2013 7:41:36 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: ebb tide

He was speaking about self-communicating, which is only allowed to a priest.

Nice misrepresentation.


132 posted on 07/21/2013 7:48:11 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: SpirituTuo

Anybody who receives Holy Communion in the hand self communicates.

What part of that do you not understand? Do you self communicate?


133 posted on 07/26/2013 3:53:03 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: SpirituTuo

“People enjoy having their ears tickled.”

Sorry, I’m not into that. Was that mentioned in JP II’s “Theology of the Body”?


134 posted on 07/26/2013 3:56:36 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Biggirl
And there's probably a whole lot of confessing to do! What happened to "avoid the near occasion of sin"?
135 posted on 07/26/2013 4:04:10 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: SpirituTuo

“They also enjoy being freed of responsibility.”

Speak for yourself. I enjoy carrying my cross.


136 posted on 07/26/2013 4:06:11 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

You forget that we are weak, sinful humans.


137 posted on 07/26/2013 5:25:08 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl
I haven't forgotten anything. Although, I wish I could.


138 posted on 07/26/2013 5:39:15 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

WRONG!!

One RECEIVES Holy Communion either on the tongue or in the hand, as provided by rules written by BISHOPS, and signed by the Pope himself.

Who are you to demand otherwise?

Put away your pride and demonstrate some obedience.


139 posted on 07/28/2013 11:38:06 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: ebb tide

You may not be, but consider all of the Oprah and Joel Osteen fans out there.


140 posted on 07/28/2013 11:38:44 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: ebb tide

Thank you for ringing your bell on the street corner. You have already been rewarded.


141 posted on 07/28/2013 11:39:22 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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