Skip to comments.In Secret, Court Vastly Broadens Powers of N.S.A. (almost a parallel Supreme Court)
Posted on 07/06/2013 9:00:30 PM PDT by chessplayer
click here to read article
The 11 hacks on this court are the most dangerous terrorists in america. Remember when we would hear of secret courts in other countries and shudder. The 11 with box cutters spawned these 11 that can cut the constitution to shreds.
Spot on. It’s too big, too invasive to pretend it still represents a republic. Sorry Dick, you’re wrong. I don’t want to trade liberty for ‘security’ and a security state.
“He said Snowdens a traitor, but...”
Ask your buddy if he thinks the politicians demanding we support amnesty for millions of invaders are traitors.
Let’s have the emails, phone records, Income Tax records, etc., of ALL Labor Union Leaders, George Soros, Rockefellers, Kennedys, Schumer, Durbin, Reid, Pelosi, Michelle Obama, etc. made PUBLIC, since We The People pay their Salaries directly and indirectly.<PThe American Taxpayers would like to see how our “Employees” have been doing....and don’t gimme that “National Security” excuse for why we can’t see them.......
“I perceive no difference between FISA and any other Secret, Unilateral “Court,” whether denominated as FISA, Star Chamber, Inquisition, or Tribunal Révolutionnaire.”......
Ya left off the “KGB” and probably a few others.
You've made a cogent and important points. But don't go wobbly on your principle.
Ask your bud if exposing treason is "treasonous." Ask him if he believes his Traitor-in-Chief is a Traitor. Ask him if if he took an oath to the US Constitution. And ask him if it's the right of his government to routinely violate the Constitution. Ask him if he believes the 15,000 Russian troops recently negotiated to provide security as part of FEMA operations is "Treason."
Frankly, your "bud" is beyond clueless at this point. Either mentor him, quick, or...WATCH. YOUR. BACK.
Well, perhaps as powerful as a circuit court.
Wait; I thought that was the NSA? OR the IRS? OR DHS? OR the CIA? Or the FBI? Or the Supreme Court? Or Der Fuhrer? OR *cough* Snowden and his surveillance subcontractor?
The echo of that cacophony of wailing laughter we hear is coming from the halls and chambers of Congress and the WH. The murmurs of *quiet, please* and *ssssssshhhhhhh* come from the media and the "Most transparent American Dictator and Politiburo in history."
Yeah -- Thanks to his Big Mouth our government will become a Banana Republic hijacked by subversives and the US Constitution will line the bird cage of a pterodactyl.
Honestly, no. But how did the Father of the Patriot Act -- George W. Bush -- react? Did he bend over or give them the keys to the car?
Advice: FIND NEW FRIENDS.
Snowden single-handedly "Saw something and said something -- JUST like their "concerned" Constitution-Abusing .guv recommended. Snowden is unique in that HE did what we've expected rest of the Patriots to do: EXPOSE those who are secretly destroying America brick by brick.
Meanwhile, Statist cowards and enablers are banking their respective 30 pieces of silver in exchange for zipping their mouths as the Founders' Republic dies without a fight.
This is why we are not a dictatorship. We have openness and accountability.
You forgot the sarc tag.
Knew what? That there are now a dozen .guv agencies that can now abuse your Constitutional Rights under the guise of "national security"?
I find it odd that both a "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court" (FISA) and the "Council on Foreign Relations" (CFR) both contain the word "foreign," as both conspire against national security while superseding oversight of We The People.
decided that their jurisdiction is a wee bit larger.A wee bit of an understatement, there.
Freedom of speech or religion? Weve a secret court for that.
Second Amendment? Weve a secret court for that.
All your rights have been revoked. Dont like it? Theres a secret court for that.
But...but....then all your suggestions of "secret," smokey backroom/basement arrangements wouldn't be "transparent," would they? And as we know, this .guv operates above board and wouldn't tolerate that kind of subterfuge or unconstitutionality.
Rumor is they even swear oaths on a Bible or Koran. And anyway, a gravely concerned John McCain and the rest of our "Representatives" would lodge "strong objections" on the floor of the Senate over any of that kind of thing.
Have you the latest memo on the extent of implanting bugs up our azz? And number, size, and reason?
Inform us, oh Great Oz. Thanks.
Your "perception" is Reality. And we all know it. Swowden merely dropped the dime on not what not one single "Patriot" was willing to do.
I don't buy that one must acquiesce in the erosion of one's God-given rights to maintain "security." In my long lifetime, we have never had "security" - but in my youth we had Freedom. Freedom is all that matters - without it, there is no life, at least for me!
Tis 100% true. Doesn't seem to bother many, does it?
But here's the disgrace: Another reality is that the .guv is the largest employer in the nation. Any sworn oath (the violation of which is no longer taken seriously from the Top on Down) is a mere formality, superseded by...next week's paycheck and tonight's pizza, beer, and episode of 'Dancing With Stars.'
Ye Olde English Star Chamber Court we have now in contemporary America that does not call witnesses or allows defense arguments that meets in secret, hears only the government side and makes decisions that are stamped “Top Secret” and not shared with the citizens.
America: A free country?
I think not.
Semi-free country with the “semi” part disappearing daily.
ImJustAnotherOkie: I catch hell from my friends for not condemning Snowden.What makes you think there is no local commissar?
chessplayer: Those patriots would be all too happy to report you to the nearest commissar if we had them.
Let’s see, Snowden could instead have gone to a member of Congress with his concerns. Oopsy, no, that wouldn’t work, since most of them think the FISA court is A-OK.
OK, then, he could have filed a lawsuit in Federal court. No, no, not that either since they would have deferred to the FISA court.
What we have with the FISA court’s expansion into domestic affairs is nothing short of a coup. Politicians know another major attack would reflect badly on themselves, so they conspire with judges to keep unconstitutional executive actions secret. What that does is cancel out any political accountability.
So, not only are you deprived of your rights as to government intrusion without a warrant, but you can’t make an informed decision on who to vote for since any inquiry is screechingly responded to with “do you want another attack?”
I have known of the existence since about 1983. The power and scope of the court got a big boost under W and has exploded under 0. Tin foil guys have been on to it since the beginning.
>>Hang that traitor Snowden! sarc/
Comrade Snowden, like Bwadley Manning, is a reflection of the self-serving inbred TSSCI-LIFER bureaucracy that created, and failed to vet them.
When you mention this to folks, they look at you like your nuts.
For years I'd hear of this sort of stuff. Surveillance this, FEMA that. All kinds of left field stories.
It appears that it's really not so nut Jobi's sorta stuff any longer.
Surveillance drones being deployed throughout America (we have one right here in Montgomery co. Texas. Cameras being installed everywhere. Militarization of local law enforcement, secret courts, law abiding citizens being spied on, credit card / phone records seized w/o a warrant.
DHS, Patriot Act, NDAA, TSA shaking folks down. Law enforcement pulling folks out of their homes and frisking them at gun point during the whole Boston fiasco.
King street patriots, a tea party group in the Houston area had their private business scrutinized by the IRS, FBI, EPA and OSHA.
I dunno...seems like more of a police state to me. Maybe not full blown yet, but it appears to be heading this way.
Yeah! I have attracted the attention of one of Feinstein’s disciples by stating was a hero. I explained the reason that I said that was because Feinstein called him a traitor, and knowing what I knew about Feinstein, if she thought he was a traitor, he must be o.k.
Government overreach / post-911 overreaction bump for later...
“Remember how the Democrats in congress were constantly making an issue of the FISA court back during the Bush administration?”
Yes, and before that, I remember Republicans and conservatives (including many Freepers) making an issue of the FISA court back during the Clinton administration. One sign of a crumbling state is people willing to support or tolerate abuses of power when “their side” is in charge.
Very good point, and thank you.
Why, the NYT sounds like wacko-bird Tea Party paranoids.
This court isn’t that secret. Its members, offices and meeting sites have been published for decades.
The United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) is a U.S. federal court established and authorized under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) (50 U.S.C. § 1803, Pub.L. 95511, 92 Stat. 1788, enacted October 25, 1978). The court oversees requests for surveillance warrants against suspected foreign intelligence agents inside the United States by federal law enforcement agencies (primarily National Security Agency and the F.B.I.). Congress created FISA and its court (also called the FISA Court) as a result of the Church Committee recommendations.
Since 2009, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has been located in the E. Barrett Prettyman United States Courthouse in Washington, D.C. For roughly thirty years of its history, it was housed on the sixth floor of the Robert F. Kennedy Department of Justice Building.
In 2013, a top secret warrant issued by this Court was leaked to the media. That warrant, which ordered Verizon to provide a daily feed of all call detail records including those for domestic calls to the National Security Agency, sparked a public outcry of criticism and controversy.
For some interesting specifics of current members and past members got to the site and check out the other data:
thank you for your posts- I find it a strength when one can admit to a lack of knowledge on any given subject and the resulting snarkisms are completely useless...been here a while and learn something new every single day and wouldn’t have it any other way!
I'm perplexed; is there some court rule that invalidates the 1st amendment? I certainly respect the attorney / client privilege. After all, that really is but an extension of the 5th. But the rules of conduct would prevent you from commenting in a forum on events and decisions that happened in open court?
January 12, 2006
Under Clinton, NY Times called surveillance “a necessity”
By William Tate
The controversy following revelations that U.S. intelligence agencies have monitored suspected terrorist related communications since 9/11 reflects a severe case of selective amnesia by the New York Times and other media opponents of President Bush. They certainly didn’t show the same outrage when a much more invasive and indiscriminate domestic surveillance program came to light during the Clinton administration in the 1990’s. At that time, the Times called the surveillance ‘a necessity.’
‘If you made a phone call today or sent an email to a friend, there’s a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country’s largest intelligence agency.’ (Steve Kroft, CBS’ 60 Minutes)
Those words were aired on February 27, 2000 to describe the National Security Agency and an electronic surveillance program called Echelon whose mission, according to Kroft,
‘is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon’s computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world.’
Echelon was, or is (its existence has been underreported in the American media), an electronic eavesdropping program conducted by the United States and a few select allies such as the United Kingdom.
Tellingly, the existence of the program was confirmed not by the New York Times or the Washington Post or by any other American media outlet these were the Clinton years, after all, and the American media generally treats Democrat administrations far more gently than Republican administrations but by an Australian government official in a statement made to an Australian television news show.
The Times actually defended the existence of Echelon when it reported on the program following the Australians’ revelations.
‘Few dispute the necessity of a system like Echelon to apprehend foreign spies, drug traffickers and terrorists....’
And the Times article quoted an N.S.A. official in assuring readers
‘...that all Agency activities are conducted in accordance with the highest constitutional, legal and ethical standards.’
Of course, that was on May 27, 1999 and Bill Clinton, not George W. Bush, was president.
Even so, the article did admit that
‘...many are concerned that the system could be abused to collect economic and political information.’
Despite the Times’ reluctance to emphasize those concerns, one of the sources used in that same article, Patrick Poole, a lecturer in government and economics at Bannock Burn College in Franklin, Tenn., had already concluded in a study cited by the Times story that the program had been abused in both ways.
‘ECHELON is also being used for purposes well outside its original mission. The regular discovery of domestic surveillance targeted at American civilians for reasons of ‘unpopular’ political affiliation or for no probable cause at all... What was once designed to target a select list of communist countries and terrorist states is now indiscriminately directed against virtually every citizen in the world,’ Poole concluded.
The Times article also referenced a European Union report on Echelon. The report was conducted after E.U. members became concerned that their citizens’ rights may have been violated. One of the revelations of that study was that the N.S.A. used partner countries’ intelligence agencies to routinely circumvent legal restrictions against domestic spying.
‘For example, [author Nicky] Hager has described how New Zealand officials were instructed to remove the names of identifiable UKUSA citizens or companies from their reports, inserting instead words such as ‘a Canadian citizen’ or ‘a US company’. British Comint [Communications intelligence] staff have described following similar procedures in respect of US citizens following the introduction of legislation to limit NSA’s domestic intelligence activities in 1978.’
Further, the E.U. report concluded that intelligence agencies did not feel particularly constrained by legal restrictions requiring search warrants.
‘Comint agencies conduct broad international communications ‘trawling’ activities, and operate under general warrants. Such operations do not require or even suppose that the parties they intercept are criminals.’
The current controversy follows a Times report that, since 9/11, U.S.
intelligence agencies are eavesdropping at any time on up to 500 people in the U.S. suspected of conducting international communications with terrorists. Under Echelon, the Clinton administration was spying on just about everyone.
‘The US National Security Agency (NSA) has created a global spy system, codename ECHELON, which captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, fax, email and telex message sent anywhere in the world,’
I think there might have been others, but they were destroyed first. I'm shocked he was able to speak. (Suicide twice to the back of the head, the usual...) Remember the information that leaked out about 600 future leaders (all pro-Constitution) were going to be taken out? For awhile, I was keeping track of how many were mysteriously/tragically dying in their 30s and 40s.
<< ) Remember the information that leaked out about 600 future leaders (all pro-Constitution) were going to be taken out? For awhile, I was keeping track of how many were mysteriously/tragically dying in their 30s and 40s. >>
When/what was this? Do you mind giving a few details so i can look it up?
There will come a day when the military is made up of mind numb robots and retards. And when they’re told to “fire”, they’ll pull the trigger no matter who or what is in the sights.
No, of course not — but aghhh — I just can’t find anything online about the “600” right now. I’m looking through my own records, so might FM you in a bit.
It was after Breitbart and the coroner died, so within the last year or so. There was a leak about 600 future leaders (not of anything bad).
I remember at least three very strong marksmen/pro-2nd Amendment guys dying in rapid succession. One was cornered in his house in the Phoenix area by SWAT and gunned down. One was found murdered by the side of the road. Another took a PTSD vet out to the gun range and was shot and killed.
Now... this could all just be coincidence, but I’m a “smoke-and-fire” type of person.
OK, thx. I’m with you on the 3 marksmen. What about the producer for the Russian gun guy and his YouTube videos? And the helicopter carrying some exmilitary guy and they were filming a new show or something? (I’m obviously vague on details).
I’m. STILL intrigued by the mysterious deaths a few yrs ago of all those biologists and infection control/biochem doctors & researchers.
I’ll keep looking. I throw so much stuff in my files and I’m trying to find the original story (not sure if I kept it — or that it’s from a “legit” source). Yes about the helicopter guy and the producer! And, that’s not even talking about all the Navy Seals who kept mysteriously dying, ugh.
That microbiologist thing was super scary — and is — since Plum Island is being moved to the smack dab middle of the country (Manhattan, Kansas). I have seen lists of their mysterious deaths that is only barely topped by all the suspicious deaths under the Bubbas! (I do have the Clinton list in my records, just found that one...)
...the (FISA) court has taken on a much more expansive role by regularly assessing broad constitutional questions and establishing important judicial precedents, with almost no public scrutiny, according to current and former officials familiar with the courts classified decisions.
The 11-member Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, known as the FISA court, was once mostly focused on approving case-by-case wiretapping orders. But since major changes in legislation and greater judicial oversight of intelligence operations were instituted six years ago, it has quietly become almost a parallel Supreme Court, serving as the ultimate arbiter on surveillance issues and delivering opinions that will most likely shape intelligence practices for years to come, the officials said.
More than a Supreme court...more powerful, more sinister
This article highlights the problem.
There is no provision for a FISA court at all, and particular not with these powers in the US Constitution.
There is a provision where a case by case basis for probable cause could be determined against specific US citizens to see if they were about to commit a crime, and then a judge approving a warrant regarding that specific case...all of which would come out in open court at a trial and be able to be contested. Each and every time.
Here, you have a secret court, in the name of "national security," stepping far outside its constitutional bounds and amassing data on all people. With no conceivable probable cause whatsoever. And then approving en masse collection of data clearly against the 4th amendment...and approving it themselves. So, a secret court, outside of being contested or scrutinized, which was never called for in the constitution, approving unconstitutional actions.
Such power is the very basis and foundation for corruption and ultimately for despotism. Such a horrible precedent establishes a temptation to use that data for much, much more than any terror related plot on an individual basis. To use it to silence, intimidate, blackmail, or influence purely political considerations. And we are seeing an administration succumb to that temptation almost on a daily basis.
And now even higher level whistle blowers have come forward, detailing and punctuating what Snowden revealed.
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