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Hope fading for 40 missing in Quebec train disaster, officials confirm five dead
National Post ^ | July 7, 2013 | Graeme Hamilton

Posted on 07/07/2013 3:19:54 PM PDT by Squawk 8888

LAC-MEGANTIC, Que. — About 40 people are considered missing after the spectacular blaze and explosions that razed much of Lac-Megantic, increasing the likelihood that the number of fatalities could soar from the current official death toll of five.

“I can tell you that we have met a lot of people….and what I can tell you is that about 40 people are considered missing,” Quebec provincial police Lt. Michel Brunet told a news conference.

“We have to be careful with that number because it could go up or down.”

It is the first time police have gone public with an estimate since the derailment of a train carrying crude oil triggered Saturday morning’s fatal events.

Brunet said two bodies were found overnight and another two on Sunday morning. The first body was discovered Saturday.

Police say a higher death toll is inevitable.

About 30 buildings were destroyed after tanker cars laden with oil caught fire shortly after 1 a.m. One of them is the Musi-Cafe bar where dozens of people were enjoying themselves in the wee hours of a glorious summer night. Most of the missing are believed to have been at the bar.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalpost.com ...


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: lacmegantic; quebec; train
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1 posted on 07/07/2013 3:19:54 PM PDT by Squawk 8888
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To: Clive; exg; Alberta's Child; albertabound; AntiKev; backhoe; Byron_the_Aussie; Cannoneer No. 4; ...
To all- please ping me to Canadian topics.

Canada Ping!

2 posted on 07/07/2013 3:22:45 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter)
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To: Squawk 8888

But ... moving crude by train is much more enviornmentaly friendly and safer than pipeline .. odumbo says so.


3 posted on 07/07/2013 3:24:06 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: Squawk 8888

Musi-Cafe Bar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU_cJV4xj9k


4 posted on 07/07/2013 3:24:17 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Squawk 8888

what a mess

prayers up


5 posted on 07/07/2013 3:29:58 PM PDT by bigheadfred (barry your mouth is writing checks your ass cant cash)
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To: Squawk 8888
Couple of large pics.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
6 posted on 07/07/2013 3:31:16 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
Oh Lord .. I hadn't realized how close to a living community that is.

Father, I don't know how to pray ... bless o Lord the survivors and have mercy on those that may get angry at You.

7 posted on 07/07/2013 3:33:51 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: cripplecreek

Looks kind of like Philly after the MOVE massacre.


8 posted on 07/07/2013 3:34:08 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Squawk 8888

PRAYERS UP.


9 posted on 07/07/2013 3:34:20 PM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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To: cripplecreek
It looks like the bar was about where the middle of the bottom picture.
10 posted on 07/07/2013 3:35:09 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin

All day Sunday, not a mention in the MSM.

2 people die in SF plane crash and wall to wall coverage.

60 people die in oil train explosion and MSM silence.

We can’t report on any story that makes the king obama look bad. i.e. oil pipeline avoidance


11 posted on 07/07/2013 3:42:33 PM PDT by George from New England (escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: cripplecreek

Damn. Looks like photos of Berlin at the end of WW2. From what I’ve read in Canadian media, the bar, the ‘Musi-Café’, was pretty much right at the hypocenter of the explosion.


12 posted on 07/07/2013 3:42:38 PM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: knarf
Lots of small communities are built right up against the tracks all across the country. Here is Grass lake just north of me. The dashed line is a working rail line and virtually every town along it is the same way all the way across the state.

Folks need to think long and hard about moving oil and gas by rail through populated areas.

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13 posted on 07/07/2013 3:44:55 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: George from New England

I’m amazed they haven’t had more coverage of this for the purposes of advocating “green” energy such as wind mills.


14 posted on 07/07/2013 3:50:43 PM PDT by matt04
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To: Squawk 8888

Just horrible. Prayers for our friends up North.


15 posted on 07/07/2013 3:50:53 PM PDT by SueRae (It isn't over. In God We Trust.)
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To: Squawk 8888

prayers


16 posted on 07/07/2013 4:03:55 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: Squawk 8888

Prayers.


17 posted on 07/07/2013 4:09:17 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Squawk 8888

Leaving a train of estimated $8,000,000 value unattended seems like a poor carriage of fiduciary responsibility.


18 posted on 07/07/2013 4:13:36 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: George from New England
60 people die in oil train explosion and MSM silence.

Well, it was in Canada. We Americans are famously immune to news of the rest of the world -- even when it's about 10 miles from the border.

We should really get over that. This was horrible.

19 posted on 07/07/2013 4:50:10 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The imposition of a duty on the importation of a commodity burdens the consumers. --Ludwig Von Mises)
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To: BfloGuy

I read in the WSJ that the oil was from North Dakota and the RR was headquartered in Illinois. The refinery to which the oil was headed was Irving Oil of Canada, in St John New Brunswick.

If this was anything other than an oil train, this would be top headlines across the USA and Canada.


20 posted on 07/07/2013 4:53:52 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Squawk 8888
Are you the unidentified engineer of that crazy 8 CSX runaway back in the day?


21 posted on 07/07/2013 5:08:08 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

“Leaving a train of estimated $8,000,000 value unattended seems like a poor carriage of fiduciary responsibility”

From what I read the train was “supposedly” tied down while they were waiting for another crew to take over. Obviously the train got loose and rolled down hill into the community where the derailment and disaster took place.


22 posted on 07/07/2013 5:20:12 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: Parley Baer
So was the train left with the locomotives on the front and the cars in the back? Or were the locos pulled and run off to somewhere where they weren't blocking the path of the cars? (The train was east bound and left off toteh west of town.

Were the train brakes used to the point of getting quite hot just before having the manual brakes put on at least some of the cars at the tie down location? If so, do cooling manual brakes on rail cars have a reduced braking force as all of the components cool down over the next hour or two?

How much did the Nantes FD screw with the locomotive that was on fire? The others? The rest of the train? The Nantes FD were the last authority at the top of the hill.

23 posted on 07/07/2013 5:45:13 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Parley Baer

I am not seeing anything as to cause... was the power still coupled to the unit train? If not, the cut of cars would have had to have had the air bottled up before the cut... not likely.

I do recall seeing a video of the inferno... and in the foreground was the end on the unit train with End of Train device blinking away.

So... where was the power. I could dig around on the railfan boards, but would rather not. I have enough crude oil unit train derailments to contend with at the moment.


24 posted on 07/07/2013 5:50:04 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: Rodamala
"According to the railway, the train’s locomotive was “shut down subsequent to the departure of the engineer,” depriving the train’s air brakes of the power needed to keep the load from careening downhill."

It's got to be either the Nantes FD or some saboteur.

Though I still can't comprehend how the tank cars got to town before the locomotives (which apparently never arrived) since that was the direction of travel of the train.

25 posted on 07/07/2013 6:20:02 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Rodamala

Though I supposed the locomotive that was supplying air ran out of fuel or stalled from some other reason. Locomotive control positions will be interesting.


26 posted on 07/07/2013 6:22:39 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Rodamala

The only thing I can imagine is that someone cut off the locos from the head of the train and parked them on a parallel track (There is a long siding just out of Nantes according to aerial photos) and then the tank car consist took off. Then the locos could have been moved part way to Lac Megantic behind the explosive materials.


27 posted on 07/07/2013 6:28:20 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Rodamala

Well, there was one mention of the locomotives being a few miles out of town. I had assumed that they were west of town, but it likely seems they are east of town and led the whole train through town where wile going at a higher speed than normal the tank cars started to derail while going over the switches located in town.


28 posted on 07/07/2013 6:56:47 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

It’s likely uphill in both directions from the lake.


29 posted on 07/07/2013 6:57:42 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Rodamala
"Ed Burkhardt, chairman of the Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway, said Sunday night that the train’s sole engineer shut down four of the five locomotive units on the train, as is standard procedure, in the neighbouring community of Nantes before heading to Lac Mégantic to sleep. Burkhardt said the next engineer was probably due to arrive at daybreak.

But someone managed to shut down the fifth locomotive unit, he said. That’s the one that maintained brake pressure to keep the train in place.

“If the operating locomotive is shut down, there’s nothing left to keep the brakes charged up, and the brake pressure will drop finally to the point where they can’t be held in place any longer,” Burkhardt said.

There are two ways to shut down the fifth unit: There’s an emergency lever on the outside of the locomotive that anyone wandering by could access. Or, there are a number of levers and buttons inside the unlocked cabin.

Both means were used, said Burkhardt."

Sounds like someone should have set the manual brakes on some of the tanker cars. Or leave the train in some low spot where it's uphill in both directions.

It'd be better to just keep the train going 24/7.

30 posted on 07/07/2013 7:11:20 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

“According to the railway, the train’s locomotive was “shut down subsequent to the departure of the engineer,” depriving the train’s air brakes of the power needed to keep the load from careening downhill.”

I’m surprised these brake systems aren’t designed like trucks where the air keeps the brakes OFF. Failure of an air line or compressor would mean the brakes lock up.


31 posted on 07/07/2013 7:13:30 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: Paladin2

“There are two ways to shut down the fifth unit: There’s an emergency lever on the outside of the locomotive that anyone wandering by could access. Or, there are a number of levers and buttons inside the unlocked cabin.”

This is crazy to have something like that with no security. How about if the diesel just stalls?

This company had better get out their checkbook.


32 posted on 07/07/2013 7:17:08 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: headstamp 2
The rail cars apparently have the equivalent of a manually operated park brake. The air in their reservoir eventually leaks out and they don't have the spring brakes like trail trucks (springs can break too).

" Joe McGonigle, a vice president at Montreal, Maine & Atlantic, said the train “came loose” in the early morning hours Saturday and “started rolling down the tracks.”

He said the train’s engine was found about one kilometre from where the explosions took place."

It would make sense that all 5 locomotives came through town before the tank cars and with their lower center of gravity(?) and higher weight were able to make it through the switches with out derailing.

Once thederailled cars stopped pushing them, whatever brakes they may have had set could stop them from going uphill.

33 posted on 07/07/2013 7:20:43 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: headstamp 2
I’m surprised these brake systems aren’t designed like trucks where the air keeps the brakes OFF. Failure of an air line or compressor would mean the brakes lock up.

They are.

34 posted on 07/07/2013 7:23:57 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Paladin2
"Both means were used, said Burkhardt."

Which makes this sabotage / terrorism.

35 posted on 07/07/2013 7:28:42 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: Squawk 8888

Yikes,very ugly indeed.


36 posted on 07/07/2013 7:37:57 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: BenLurkin
Musi-Cafe Bar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU_cJV4xj9k

Wow. The "Street Survivors" of youtube videos.
37 posted on 07/07/2013 7:38:05 PM PDT by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since '91.)
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To: okie01

Not from what I’ve read. It’s the opposite. see post 33.

At any rate they should have been secured far better than they were including cranking down the manual breaks on the cars.

The rail line is going to lose their ass over this.


38 posted on 07/07/2013 7:38:16 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: NonValueAdded

Start with the greenies.


39 posted on 07/07/2013 7:39:21 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: Squawk 8888

Is there any suspicion that this is terrorism?


40 posted on 07/07/2013 7:39:33 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: okie01

They do lock up initially (like when a coupling fails or opens on a moving train), but not forever.


41 posted on 07/07/2013 7:40:31 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: headstamp 2
Just a week or two ago:


42 posted on 07/07/2013 7:41:58 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: headstamp 2; Paladin2
They do lock up initially (like when a coupling fails or opens on a moving train), but not forever.

I stand corrected.

43 posted on 07/07/2013 7:45:56 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Paladin2

When I see stupid people standing across a railroad track, I hope that the train comes through really fast. They look like miniature bowling pins.


44 posted on 07/07/2013 7:46:05 PM PDT by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Nothing so far. Mind you, if it was terrorism or vandalism they’d keep quiet to avoid letting on how easy it would be.


45 posted on 07/07/2013 7:49:17 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter)
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To: Paladin2
According to the railway, the train’s locomotive was “shut down subsequent to the departure of the engineer,” depriving the train’s air brakes of the power needed to keep the load from careening downhill."

While I confess that I don't know the mechanics of train air brakes, I thought that a positive pressure released the brakes and that if there were no pressure (as would be the case if the engine's compressor was NOT running), the brakes would be locked.

I'm assuming that this was a fail-safe system designed to stop cars from rolling if they got disconnected from the rest of the train.

46 posted on 07/07/2013 7:50:17 PM PDT by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: Paladin2
"On Thursday June 27th, 350 Maine and Earth First members blocked a train carrying 70,000 barrels of "fracked" crude oil. Dozens of people joined the action, and six people were arrested. The action was under the umbrella of Fearless Summer, a series of direct actions around the nation aimed at highlighting extreme energy extraction. "

FEARLESS SUMMER:

"Over the past few years we’ve witnessed a rising tide of courage from the frontlines; communities from the pinewoods of East Texas to the hollers of West Virginia have come together to defend the land and the people from the ravages of extreme energy. Yet with every new frack-well drilled, pipeline laid, and mountain blasted, the extraction industry pushes our planet closer to irreversible tipping points.

But now we are coming together as a movement to push back.

For too long we have struggled separately and we are running out of time. If we are going to reclaim our future, we must begin to speak with one voice. That’s why we are calling for the national movement against extreme energy to join in a summer of coordinated action.

As this industry continues to escalate its attack of life on earth, we must respond by asserting our dignity and escalating our action for a livable future. In the face of unfathomable ecological destruction and looming runaway climate change, we must take the kind of bold action that is necessary to save the planet. We must all draw our lines in the sand. We must face our fears together. We must take our future fearlessly into our hands and change business as usual."

47 posted on 07/07/2013 7:51:02 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: meyer

It’ll be interesting to see where the locomotive train air/brake brake lever allegedly was set after the locos went through town and stopped.


48 posted on 07/07/2013 7:53:53 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2
"As this industry continues to escalate its attack of life on earth, we must respond by asserting our dignity and escalating our action for a livable future. In the face of unfathomable ecological destruction and looming runaway climate change, we must take the kind of bold action that is necessary to save the planet. We must all draw our lines in the sand. We must face our fears together. We must take our future fearlessly into our hands and change business as usual."

Translation: We must all be dumb asses. We must face our idiocy together. We must take the world's future fearlessly into our own hands and turn it FUBAR.

49 posted on 07/07/2013 7:58:49 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: meyer
I suppose that all of the train's equipment will have to be somehow evaluated for brake system condition.

I still think it's questionable to leave ~$8,000,000 of hazardous material next to the side of a road without adult supervision. It should be in a more secure place when parked at night.

50 posted on 07/07/2013 7:59:27 PM PDT by Paladin2
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