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The Science Behind Late-Term Abortion Bans
Townhall.com ^ | July 8, 2013 | Katie Pavlich

Posted on 07/09/2013 3:59:31 AM PDT by Kaslin

As the debate about late-term abortion continues in Texas, it is important to point out why lawmakers want to approve legislation that bans abortions after five months. The key is in the science.

Texas Right to Life released a video yesterday featuring Dr. Ingrid Skop, Dr. Greg Bonnen and Dr. Paul Liu. All three doctors confirmed babies do in fact feel pain as early as five months inside the womb.

The Science Behind Preborn Pain

Meanwhile, a new study backs up these doctors and the science they discuss in the video above. LifeNews has more:

A newly-published research study shows unborn children are capable of feeling pain in the womb, as evidenced by the grimaces they show in their facial expressions.

The study will soon be published in the academic journal PLOS ONE.

Researchers from Durham and Lancaster Universities in England say unborn babies learn to show pain in their facial expressions as part of the process of fetal development. They took 15 scans of healthy unborn children and found that, when responding to painful stimuli, the babies were capable of one-dimensional expressions of pain in their faces at 24 weeks — such as moving their lips in a negative fashion.

At the 36th week of pregnancy, the researchers found unborn children can perform complex multi-dimensional facial expressions similar to what children make after birth.

Lead researcher Dr Nadja Reissland, of Durham University’s Department of Psychology told Sky News, “It is vital for infants to be able to show pain as soon as they are born so that they can communicate any distress or pain they might feel to their carers.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionclinic; prochoice; prolife; science

1 posted on 07/09/2013 3:59:31 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

The “key” has nothing whatsoever to do with science.

It has to do with murder.


2 posted on 07/09/2013 4:01:12 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
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To: Jack Hammer

What it has to do with is the responsibility a mother has for her unborn child. If she has none the child’s pain is irrelevant. The ability to feel pain is a red herring. An amoeba moves away from pain. Every living organism feels pain at every stage of its life. The state has determined that a mother cannot be required to sustain a pregnancy. That is the central issue.


3 posted on 07/09/2013 4:35:40 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

As long as the mother doesn’t feel the pain she could not be bothered with the child she does not want.

How many of these mothers are multiple murderers?

Abortion is used instead of Birth Control. Give a free sterilization to all who abort.


4 posted on 07/09/2013 4:40:04 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Jack Hammer; Kaslin; onyx
The “key” has nothing whatsoever to do with science.

Possibly, but it appears that the laws on abortion in the US (federal or state laws??) do not take into account the state of the medical science. Compare and contrast to the situation in Sweden:

Abortions are legal up until the 18th week of pregnancy. The decision is resting solely with the pregnant woman.

Abortions later than week 18 are only legal if the health or life of the woman is threatened. These later abortions (relatively unusual) have to be approved by the National Board of Health. Only in certain acute situations (when the mother is dying and the fetus as well) may a late abortion be carried out without an approval by the NBH.

In Sweden an abortion (spontaneous or induced) is defined as a pregnancy that is terminated before the end of week 22 and the fetus was stillborn. As a consequence of this law, any fetus born alive after this period is considered legally a person. The late abortions discussed (and performed!!!) in the US would be considered murder in Sweden.

In Sweden premature babies born in week 22 have been saved, though the prognosis is still not very good. From week 28 and onwards, however, the chances of survival (with intensive care) are relatively good.

In the US Sweden is considered the epitome of liberalism (at least in the socio.medical sphere) but in actual fact our abortion laws are much more conservative than in the US.

Likewise, in Sweden conservative Americans protesting against late-term abortions are considered Neanderthals by the commentariat in the politico-media sphere. These, oh so well-educated and properly informed persons, obviously have no idea that the type of late abortions allowed in the US would be considered a criminal act here.

(PS: I did not discuss early abortions here, because the article was about late-term abortions. Suffice to say that it is a sad paradox that at the time when prophylactic methods are available in an abundance the number of induced abortions never has been as high.)

5 posted on 07/09/2013 4:43:45 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: ScaniaBoy

How long does a woman need to decide if she wants to kill her baby? Will it be at 5 yrs after birth some day?

In addition, what happens to the soul of the baby that never even had a chance to be baptized?


6 posted on 07/09/2013 4:49:08 AM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of "gun free zones"?)
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To: logic101.net
Will it be at 5 yrs after birth some day?

I remember a short story about pre-humans by a science-fiction writer (could have been Roald Dahl). In that story children before the age of 12 was considered pre-humans, and their parents (or the authorities?) had the possibility to decide if they wanted them "terminated" until the day the were 12 years old.

Unfortunately, some sci-fi writers have an uncanny knack of predicting the future (at least sometimes). Shudder....

7 posted on 07/09/2013 4:59:27 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Sounds like Norstrilia (also known as The Planet Buyer) by Cordwainer Smith. The parents didn’t decide, it was a committee. It was a minor plot point. Well worth reading for anyone who’s not experienced CS, an author who manages to be unique in a genre where uniqueness can be a difficult feat.


8 posted on 07/09/2013 5:11:15 AM PDT by Eepsy
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To: Kaslin

I think using pain as the criteria for protection is sick, frankly. Absolutely disgusting, in fact.


9 posted on 07/09/2013 5:13:05 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (America's Party - 'We're partisans only for principle.' www.SelfGovernment.US)
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To: Kaslin
Even though the media refuses to run the ad, the voices of the babies still cry out ....

Conception to Birth .... Visualized

10 posted on 07/09/2013 5:24:25 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Kaslin
I'd like to thank the United States Government for protecting me and my kind.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
You see, 40 years ago, my odds of making it out of the egg, alive, were very poor; about 80% of us died. 
 (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=rachel-carson-silent-spring-1972-ddt-ban-birds-thrive)
 
 
But a lady discovered our plight and wrote a book that addressed our problem,
and, in 1972, a law was ammended protecting us even further. (http://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/protect/laws.html)
 
 
 
 
 
 
What I find strange is that the same government passed a law the very next year that allowed for killing
of unborn, and apparently unwanted, humans.  Little ones still nestled safely in their Mother's womb.
Around 25% of them are dying before birth - on average nearly 3,300 - every day of the year.
 
 
I hear that by now, somewhere around 55 MILLION of them have perished.
Wouldn't that kind of mess up the humans plans for growth, and welfare, and
retirement?
 
 
 
 
 
Strange birds; these Homo Sapiens.  Perhaps they'll come to their senses
before they are ALL dead!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

11 posted on 07/09/2013 5:44:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Venturer
Give a free sterilization to all who abort.

You've read my mind!

12 posted on 07/09/2013 5:45:28 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: logic101.net
In addition, what happens to the soul of the baby that never even had a chance to be baptized?

Probably about the same as a babie's that HAD been 'baptised'.

13 posted on 07/09/2013 5:47:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Even blind squirrels...


14 posted on 07/09/2013 5:47:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Eagles are big news locally. They have nested for years on the river within the protected confines of the Holston Army Ammunition Plant.

They have broken out. There are young, new eagles in nests under observation up stream on Boone lake. There is a lone eagle that is seen patrolling Fort Patrick Henry Lake back down stream from Boone.

Alas, the Ospreys seem to have fled. They apparently can’t tolerate or are intimidated by the eagles.


15 posted on 07/09/2013 5:50:08 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Who will shoot Liberty Valence?)
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To: logic101.net

You actually think God in his infinite mercy cares whether a aborted baby was baptised....?

Are you serious or just that dense?


16 posted on 07/09/2013 5:55:23 AM PDT by Popman
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To: Popman
I think you missed my point:

You actually think God in his infinite mercy cares whether a NON-aborted baby was baptised....?


17 posted on 07/09/2013 6:20:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jack Hammer
The “key” has nothing whatsoever to do with science. It has to do with murder.

Really?

How do you know it's murder? What evidence do you bring, to show that the entity which is removed in an abortion is human (and therefore killing it unjustly is murder)?

Show me that abortion is murder.

Just don't use science. Or superstition.

Good luck.

18 posted on 07/09/2013 6:25:11 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Yes, it is always interesting to me how some European countries, including the Scandinavians, are more restrictive when it comes to abortion. Partly, I think, because they base their policy on science, not on beliefs (feminist ideology on the left and religious beliefs on the right).


19 posted on 07/09/2013 6:49:39 AM PDT by paudio
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To: ArrogantBustard

please: comment on reply #11

(remember: the LAW has something called FETICIDE)


20 posted on 07/09/2013 9:05:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: paudio
... on science, not on beliefs ...

yet so MUCH of 'science' is mere belief.

21 posted on 07/09/2013 9:06:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
The laws of these United States banning "feticide" specifically exempt destruction of "fetuses" during the legally protected act of procured abortion. Therefore, the "LAW (sic)" does not apply.

The other fellow claims that opposition to procured abortion has nothing to do with science. I challenged him to demonstrate, without reference to science (or superstition), that procured abortion is in any way reprehensible.

He has not responded.

You have failed. Post #11 definitely references science.

BTW, if my tagline does not make it clear, my posting history on this forum can leave no possible shred of doubt as to my position on this matter.

22 posted on 07/09/2013 9:13:41 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Elsie
yet so MUCH of 'science' is mere belief.

Your comment indicates an understanding of science which has not progressed much beyond early elementary school ... and is quite ironic in a post transmitted to the world via a computer network.

23 posted on 07/09/2013 9:15:55 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Your comment indicates an understanding of science which has not progressed much beyond early elementary school

Oh?

Then why do so many PhDs in so many fields disagree with one another?

24 posted on 07/09/2013 12:36:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ArrogantBustard
...disagree with one another?

They look at the SAME data, and come up with different 'theories'.

That ain't science; Buster; that's BELIEF!

25 posted on 07/09/2013 12:38:21 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Thank you for reinforcing my point.

Blind, unsupported "belief" doesn't make the computer network ... or the multiple layers of tools and tools to build tools ... function according to design. That was all done by engineers and scientists; their theories and designs aren't "faith based". Their theories and designs either work, or they don't work. They're reality based.

You don't show much evidence of understanding that.

Buster.

26 posted on 07/09/2013 12:54:34 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Elsie
Oh, yes. You don't even understand logic.

Then why do so many PhDs in so many fields disagree with one another?

That's what we call "begging the question". Who says "so many" (how many?) people with advanced degrees in the natural sciences, but in "so many" (how many?) different disciplines mutually disagree? You assume, without evidence, that this is the case. Define your terms (How many is "so many"? Is that number significant? Why?) and then prove your assertion. Provide evidence.

Or just admit that you're blowing smoke.

BTW, the controversies over "global warming" and "evolution" show what happens when politicians and philosophers (I'm being generous) attempt to draw conclusions which exceed the scope of available evidence, and in fields beyond their expertise.

27 posted on 07/09/2013 1:02:37 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
and then prove your assertion. Provide evidence.

Now why you bein' dis way?

I did not bombard YOU with questions to prove your assertions.

Let'st say we're both right in these matters and quit this nitpicking before we REALLY aggravate one another; ok?

28 posted on 07/09/2013 5:24:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Popman

You actually think God in his infinite mercy cares whether a aborted baby was baptised....?

Are you serious or just that dense?

You don’t know much about the Christian faith, do you?


29 posted on 07/09/2013 7:33:23 PM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of "gun free zones"?)
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To: logic101.net

Actually I know quite about the christain faith....

Are you implying that baby whether in the womb or breathing Gods fresh air if not baptised is not going to heaven. ..?


30 posted on 07/10/2013 6:45:47 AM PDT by Popman
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To: Elsie
Now why you bein' dis way?

Cuz yoo axed fer it.

And I'm really tired of a reflexive and ignorant anti-science attitude I see too often on this forum.

How often is "too often"?

Often enough to seriously annoy me.

Yes, it's a completely subjective measure, but I never claimed otherwise.

31 posted on 07/10/2013 6:51:21 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
<> And I'm really tired of a reflexive and ignorant anti-science attitude I see too often on this forum.

I made my living from 'science'.

I, for one, really like to see FACTS to back up one's pet 'theories'.

32 posted on 07/10/2013 9:40:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Popman

That isn’t what I’m implying, that is what I am saying. Does the phrase conceived in sin, born into sin ring a bell?

This is the reason children are baptized, to be forgiven for original sin.

If a newborn is in dire straits it will be baptized ASAP for this reason.

Maybe God makes a distinction between in the womb and out; don’t know he hasn’t told me. But my understanding is that anyone who has not been forgiven spends eternity in hell.


33 posted on 07/11/2013 5:05:16 AM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of "gun free zones"?)
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To: logic101.net

You do understand “baptism” is a symbolic act...of repentance of your sins when you are of age to recognize your sin nature ?

It has nothing to do with your salvation. ..for by grace you are saved though faith and..not by works.

Baptism is an outward act when you became saved as a show of repentance...

You guestion my knowledge...?


34 posted on 07/11/2013 6:35:18 AM PDT by Popman
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To: logic101.net

-——This is the reason children are baptized, to be forgiven for original sin.-——

I also might add that baptism does not erase your sin...the precious blood of Christ does...

Again you question my knowlegde when you seem to be unaware of basic christian doctrines...

I await your response.....


35 posted on 07/11/2013 10:18:09 AM PDT by Popman
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To: Popman

Ever hear the phrase:

“one baptism for the remission of sins”?


36 posted on 07/12/2013 4:50:38 AM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of "gun free zones"?)
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To: logic101.net

I was unaware the Nicene Creed was the Word of God...

Who knew...!


37 posted on 07/12/2013 5:20:00 AM PDT by Popman
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To: Elsie
yet so MUCH of 'science' is mere belief.

It is true, but it doesn't mean all of them.

38 posted on 07/12/2013 11:35:51 PM PDT by paudio
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To: Louis Foxwell

Tortuous Pain.

Drawing and Quartering behind closed doors, nothing more, nothing less.


39 posted on 07/12/2013 11:38:43 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (They can follow the Communist, I'll follow the Constitution...)
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