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GOP still struggling on gay marriage messaging (how to flipflop without losing the base)
The Washington Times ^ | 7/9/2013 | Seth McLaughlin

Posted on 07/10/2013 2:55:36 AM PDT by markomalley

Virginia Attorney General Kenneth T. Cuccinelli II used to be on record supporting a federal constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage, but now that he is running for governor, he refuses to take a stand.

“You want to drag me out of Virginia,” Mr. Cuccinelli recently told editors and reporters of The Washington Times when asked to weigh in on the thorny issue.

Indeed, Republicans across the country are trying to confine the marriage issue to the states, as the tide appears to be going against the Republican Party and its lawmakers try to calculate how to best limit the damage, policywise and politically.

Last month’s Supreme Court rulings, which struck down the Defense of Marriage Act and cleared the way for same-sex marriages in California, left Democrats celebrating, but Republicans struggled to figure out how to respond.

While some conservatives panned the ruling, most Republican leaders tried to keep their heads down — and all sides are still trying to grapple with whether to aggressively push a federal marriage amendment.

“The GOP is in no position at the moment to be turning away voters,” said former Virginia Republican Party Chairman Jeff Frederick, who himself is a supporter of the constitutional amendment but who said the electoral calculations are more complex. “Elections are a game of addition, not subtraction, and we can’t afford to subtract anyone else. And like it or not, there are a lot of gay Republicans out there” whose support the party needs.

Polls show more Americans support same-sex marriage and approve of the recent Supreme Court rulings. But advocates of traditional marriage say Republicans should keep fighting for an amendment or risk cutting “off their nose to spite their face.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Politics/Elections; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; moralabsolutes; randsconcerntrolls; romneyagenda; romneymarriage; romneyvsclerks; va2013; virginia
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So the GOP is trying to figure out a way to become more **fabulous** without losing those nasty, hateful Christians from their base.

To h311 with them.

1 posted on 07/10/2013 2:55:36 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

The GOP has pretty much lost me already. They should just go ahead and embrace homosexuality already if that makes them feel better about themselves. Don’t let my beliefs stand in their way.


2 posted on 07/10/2013 3:09:39 AM PDT by bayliving
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To: markomalley

I have held my nose for the very LAST time. I suspect many others have also. GOPe is making a deadly fatal error if it thinks they can bullshit us any more.


3 posted on 07/10/2013 3:09:56 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: markomalley

I think the Republicans know a constitutional amendment won’t pass. However, they can still express their displeasure with the outcome of the Supreme Court destroying marriage and making it a state’s issue when it should be a federal issue.


4 posted on 07/10/2013 3:12:59 AM PDT by napscoordinator (Santorum-Bachmann 2016 for the future of the Country!)
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To: markomalley

The perversion of the culture is NOT an excuse to embrace the perversion.

You had better realize that, GOP.

BY the way, there are PLENTY of Democrats who oppose sodomy. Look at the state of Illinois, where BLACK men who lead churches are at the forefront of opposing perversion. They put white church leaders to shame, in my opinion.


5 posted on 07/10/2013 3:30:44 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: markomalley; P-Marlowe; onyx; Alamo-Girl; narses; little jeremiah; Girlene; jazusamo; ...
Republicans across the country are trying to confine the marriage issue to the states, as the tide appears to be going against the Republican Party and its lawmakers try to calculate how to best limit the damage, policywise and politically

The problem is that the GOP can't run from reality.

1. God is real, and God has pre-informed us that homosexuality is a behavior with results that make it an abominable practice. IOW, it is an abomination, such deeply destructive sin, that God acts against it for our preservation.

2. The reality is that homosexuality does indeed wreak absolute havoc with the health and lives of its practitioners, BOTH male and female, and with the cultures that embrace it.

3. The political reality is that the GOP will not get its religious conservative base to agree to supporting same sex marriage, homosexuality, gay adoption, and all LGBT initiatives.

4. Also, one no longer is a religious conservative if one supports the homosexual agenda. Likewise, a party that supports the homosexual agenda IS no longer a conservative party and certainly is no home for conservatives.

5. Finally, the damage caused by homosexuality will eventually force itself to be recognized, and the culture will eventually swing back. God will rule and God will be found right. Those who stay the course will be proved right.

6 posted on 07/10/2013 3:58:53 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: markomalley

This is getting tiresome. The GOP rank and file went all-in with Big Brother and invited him into their marriages in return for favors. The result was all to predictable. When you lay down with dogs, don’t bitch when you wake up with fleas. Conservatives love of big goverment has once again been proven costly and once again they are missing the point of this harsh lesson.


7 posted on 07/10/2013 4:10:34 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: markomalley

Unwilling to stand on principles and provide clarity to an issue, decides his position based upon what will increase his likelihood of success at the polls....this guy has future GOP leadership written all over him!!!!


8 posted on 07/10/2013 4:12:46 AM PDT by vmivol00 (I won't be reconstructed.)
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To: bayliving
Yeah, today after a silence that would make JD Salinger proud, GWBush will make a stand for Mexico. Silent on the casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq, silent about Benghazi, his heart us moved over the plight if Barbara, Laura and the Ditzy Twins having to clean their own houses.

He's going to break his golden silence for cheap maids for the shiftless Bush womenfolk.

9 posted on 07/10/2013 4:13:25 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: markomalley

MAMMA GRIZ AND THE FREEDOM PARTY!


10 posted on 07/10/2013 4:14:54 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: markomalley

The GOP is struggling on many fronts to abandon conservative principles and still have a party. Epic fail so far..


11 posted on 07/10/2013 4:15:52 AM PDT by IamConservative (The soul of my lifes journey is Liberty!)
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To: xzins

The CDC says HIV is growing and at epidemic levels... 45% of all gay men have had sex with more than 500 other men. Death will take care of this problem... we will pay for all of it with future tax money borrowed from the air.

LLS


12 posted on 07/10/2013 4:17:40 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Mamzelle

I spit on the Bush family... They represent everything that is wrong with America and the republican party. I wish I could get back the thousands upon thousands of dollars that I poured into that jerks elections.

LLS


13 posted on 07/10/2013 4:20:04 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: markomalley

The GOP has already lost its base. It is not called the Stupid Party for no reason.


14 posted on 07/10/2013 4:22:01 AM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: markomalley
The GOP is in no position at the moment to be turning away voters


So tell that to Governor McDonnell-Blagojevich.

Sources: Additional $120,000 given to McDonnells



McDonnell son charged with public drunkenness in Charlottesville



That's the same Charlottesville where McDonnell's thugs arrested the college student for buying bottled water and cookie dough,
with one guy jumping on the hood of her car like Inspector Callahan taking down Frank Palancio, what the hell is up with that.

ABC draws rare scrutiny as questions in UVa student case linger
15 posted on 07/10/2013 4:24:26 AM PDT by greedo
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To: markomalley

How about this: marriage is a private matter and government should get out of the business of saying who can get married and who cannot.

This is a liberty issue because people like myself who know that God defines marriage and not government find that advocates of same-sex marriage want to use government to force me to approve of their perversions.

Because of incidents that have happened in Kalifornia, New Mexico and Oregon we find that people who refuse to recognize this “marriage” now face fines, loss of business and even potential jail time for peacefully and politely declining to cater to gays. Marriage can exist without government. But government is now being used as a tool by homosexuals to destroy godly marriage. Because of this fact, it is time to remove from government its power over marriage entirely.

If this leaves any issues with respect to medical decisions or inheritance, then we can repair those and indeed they are minor in comparison. For example, we don’t fret over any inheritance issues that arise from the fact that 74% of black children are born to a mother who is not married to the father of the child.


16 posted on 07/10/2013 4:28:20 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: markomalley

My understanding was that Cuccinelli was already moving left before he made this foolish remark. I suspect VA is lost forever to conservatives.


17 posted on 07/10/2013 4:28:28 AM PDT by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: theBuckwheat

If a State decides that two (or more) people can marry, if that is all that happened, I could live with that because I don’t have to approve, change my beliefs or what beliefs I pass on to my children.

Once gays and their supporters have sufficient influence with a State to redefine marriage, they don’t stop there. They use the State to forbid me from acting on my morality and beliefs. In fact, the State in some cases forces me to accommodation in their practices.

If I have children in public school, the State will insist on teaching them that gay marriage is just as normal as God’s definition of marriage. You will be sanctioned as a parent if you attempt to remove your children from such indoctrination. As long as they are enrolled in government-controlled schools, they will be graded on how well they accept the State’s idea of normal, or refuse to reject God’s idea of normal.

If you run a business that could provide services to the public, you will be sanctioned if you decline to treat gays as non-gays. For example, if you run a wedding photography business, you will be sanctioned if you decline to photograph a gay wedding. This has already happened in California and New Mexico [1].

You may lose control of your own property. [2]

You might have to go out of business to stay true to your principles, so as to avoid being fined or sued into bankruptcy. [3,4,6]

From an article:

“Wedding vendors elsewhere who refused to accommodate same-sex couples have faced discrimination lawsuits — and lost. Legal experts said Discover Annapolis Tours sidesteps legal trouble by avoiding all weddings.

“If they’re providing services to the public, they can’t discriminate who they provide their services to,” said Glendora Hughes, general counsel for the Maryland Commission on Civil Rights. The commission enforces public accommodation laws that prohibit businesses from discriminating on the basis of race, sexual orientation and other characteristics.”

To advance the legal case that a marriage between two people of the same sex is no different than a marriage as God defines it, the US Justice Department will base their arguments before the Supreme Court that a child does not need, nor have a right to a mother. [5]

In short, gays will demand that non-gays accept them as moral equals, which they are not and cannot be. When the State says they are equal it is forbidden for a private citizen to dissent from that status. In doing so, they seek to force me to give them approval for something that I will never approve of. It is that last point that galls gays the most.

Curiously, when advocates of gay marriage are asked if their policy also would allow polygamy or polyandry, they recoil in horror and insist that it does not. However, logic demands that it does. I would ask how same-sex parents are going to react in the future when, for example, Utah public schools officials require that teachers instruct the children that LDS-related polygamy is just as “normal” as same-sex “marriage”. The fact that this will be an issue will show yet again that gay “marriage” is not about marriage at all it is about forcing the rest of us to approve of repugnant sexual immorality, something that LDS polygamists never demanded.

After same-sex marriage causes polygamy to be recognized polyandry won’t be far behind. Brave new world!

[1] Refusing To Shoot Gay Marriage Is Discrimination, Says New Mexico Appeals Court
http://tinyurl.com/covv9by

[2] Judge Rules Christian facility cannot ban same-sex civil union ceremony on its own premises
http://tinyurl.com/7gcpeh9

[3] Opposed to same-sex marriage, company ends wedding business
Trolley owner says move made to avoid potential lawsuit
http://tinyurl.com/bwp2bvj

[4] Baker refuses to make wedding cake for lesbian couple and ‘calls them abominations unto the Lord’

Aaron Klein, owner of Sweet Cakes in Gresham, Oregon is the subject of a state investigation after one of the brides-to-be filed a complaint

link:
http://tinyurl.com/a482bpf

[5] DOJ: Children Do Not Need—and Have No Right to—Mothers March 3, 2013 By Terence P. Jeffrey
http://tinyurl.com/blcyj9u

[6] [Washington State] AG sues florist who refused flowers to gay wedding
http://tinyurl.com/bv25bjw


18 posted on 07/10/2013 4:30:20 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: markomalley

It’s a states rights issue not a national one. Blankley is no longer with the publication There are some who seem to feel the Time’s is hanging its Wash on the left clothesline out to dry.


19 posted on 07/10/2013 4:36:55 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
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To: markomalley

Cucinelli, a tough guy, a strong AG.......until there’s heat in the kitchen and he turns into a pussy, just another spineless gutless RINO.


20 posted on 07/10/2013 4:40:54 AM PDT by kenmcg (scapegoat)
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To: markomalley

The answer is simple. Take all references of/to marriage out of the tax code.


21 posted on 07/10/2013 4:41:43 AM PDT by PLM
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To: LibLieSlayer

And based on an article on FR a few months ago, there is a statistically significant cluster of gays ~near~ New York who are succumbing to some strain of meningitis. There are so many illness, biological/mental/social, that result from homosexuality that an impartial observer could only conclude that the behavior is dangerous.

It is dangerous to individuals.

It is dangerous to cultures.

It is dangerous to communities, churches, schools, neighborhoods, kids, adults, and even facilities.


22 posted on 07/10/2013 4:44:07 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins; markomalley; P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl; narses; little jeremiah; Girlene; jazusamo
Amen, xzins.

I marvel in disgust, at the so-called studies that claim children raised in loving, same-sex families are well-adjusted, happy and care-free.

RLY? How is that, given that those studies are small in scope, short in time and almost always conducted by homosexual psychologists?

Our misguided, "anything goes," younger generations may be all for homosexual marriage, but we know better and they will come to realize the errors of their youth, later on, and then what?

God help us.
23 posted on 07/10/2013 4:44:45 AM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: markomalley

Politics above principle. Typical.


24 posted on 07/10/2013 4:46:48 AM PDT by Viennacon
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To: PLM

Sorry, but that doesn’t maintain or increase the power of government in everyone’s lives. And think of the children. They would all starve and become miscreants with tattoos, blue hair and nose rings if the institution of marriage wasn’t menage a trois with Big Brother.


25 posted on 07/10/2013 4:52:20 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: onyx
Thank you, onyx. You speak truth.

First, these studies get to define “well-adjusted”, so the only results will be an obfuscation based on language.

Next, it is a maxim of research that an effect is either easily detectable by research or detectable only by extensive, large, extended inquiries into the topic.

For example, when researching a political race, it is relatively easy to determine results because one has 2 basic candidates and a limited number of options: support, non-support, undecided. Even then, though, for a national race over a thousand respondents are necessary to get a reasonable prediction.

Something like “well-adjusted kids raised by homosexual parents” is not easily defined in the first place. Then one has the issue of sample size. There aren't that many included in this type of research. Finally, there's simply the fact that fitting a teen to a “well-adjusted” profile doesn't mean anything at all about when that teen is 40 years old.

This is all propaganda from the advocates of homosexuality, to include the media, and to include Fox.

26 posted on 07/10/2013 4:57:45 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: markomalley

(how to flipflop without losing the base)


That’s funny. I was part of their base. They already screwed the pooch with me back around 2007.

Of course, I dumped TV in 97 and see much more clearly how we have changed. This frog jumped out while he could before they turned up the heat too much, and realized, once out, just how hot it had already gotten.


27 posted on 07/10/2013 5:03:03 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

I’ve been steeped in the Old Testament on my 2.5 hour round trip commute lately. There are all sorts of stories of Israel blowing it by depending on their own power and failing to invoke the power of God.

The GOP is quite guilty of that now.


28 posted on 07/10/2013 5:04:26 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: xzins

Amen.

LLS


29 posted on 07/10/2013 5:11:41 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Gaffer

I haven’t called myself a republican in a long time. I am a Christian conservative. Embrace perversion - won’t get my vote.


30 posted on 07/10/2013 5:16:57 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: theBuckwheat

Nice synopsis.

Now, apparently, the Colorado baker is facing up to a year in jail: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/07/baker-refuses-to-make-gay-cake-jail-for-the-baker/


31 posted on 07/10/2013 5:31:52 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Viennacon

” Politics above principle.”

Yup.

Or as I like to say, principally political.


32 posted on 07/10/2013 5:35:15 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: PLM

“The answer is simple. Take all references of/to marriage out of the tax code.”

Sadly, some jurisdictions also have “human rights” regulations that are outside of taxes and more in the realm of “discrimination”.


33 posted on 07/10/2013 5:53:17 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: cuban leaf
I’ve been steeped in the Old Testament on my 2.5 hour round trip commute lately.

I have been doing the same. This jumped off the page at me. Change the word widow to single mother an it sounds like a congresscritter is being warned.

Isaiah 10 New International Version (NIV) 10 Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, 2 to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless.

3 What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches? 4 Nothing will remain but to cringe among the captives or fall among the slain. Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised.

34 posted on 07/10/2013 6:06:34 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: SoFloFreeper
Look at the state of Illinois, where BLACK men who lead churches are at the forefront of opposing perversion.

Unless they VOTE the way they TALK, it's all so much noise.

35 posted on 07/10/2013 6:10:18 AM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: xzins

I agree with your analysis, xzins.

The gay “rights” movement and the left have done a remarkable job selling the gay agenda. Hollywood had a key role in making homosexuals part of what is considered “normal”. They have made religious, conservative, formally normal families and individuals, the laughing stock of their sitcoms/shows.

Their influence on what folks consider “normal”, especially younger people has been huge. Add to this, educating our youth on the wonders and goodness of accepting gay lifestyles in our schools, and a lot of natural opposition to such a lifestyle is removed.

Maybe the Republicans should focus on how the “tolerant” gay agenda is not quite so tolerant. They are in fact forcing their agenda on the rest of this country.....whether it’s law suits as noted in this thread, or school programs which are ridiculous in their seemingly promotion of the gay lifestyle, etc.

Their is a lot of reeducation that needs to be done at this point. Gays with the help of the left have done a great job of painting their lifestyle as normal when in fact it is anything but that.

The natural inclination to disapprove of such behavior is being removed from our society. We, especially the younger generation, are being reprogrammed to think there is no difference between a homosexual and a heterosexual lifestyle. It is not true.


36 posted on 07/10/2013 6:46:13 AM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: cuban leaf

Jeremiah 7.


37 posted on 07/10/2013 6:52:57 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: theBuckwheat

The problem of course is that you probably have a better chance of passing a national marriage amendment as ridding the institution of the state’s involvement at this point. And there is very, very little chance a constitutional amendment would ever pass on this issue now in my opinion.

The statists and homosexualists need the state involved because they need a way to punish those who won’t agree with them about marriage, that way is the state. So they would never agree with that. In addition, there are many conservatives and republicans who do not agree with the premise. So you would have basically all of one side and maybe most of the other who wouldn’t go for it.

What’s probably going to happen is that the faiths that won’t change on ‘gay marriage’ will stop being involved in civil marriage at all, either as a choice or as a punishment from the state for not buying into whatever impossibility it is calling marriage at the time.

Freegards


38 posted on 07/10/2013 7:14:41 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: markomalley

GOP struggling = death throes.


39 posted on 07/10/2013 7:18:46 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

I think, beginning at verse 16, it may be applied to the non-believers just before the rapture, which is after the tribulation but before the wrath of God begins. Just before the rapture as described in Rev. 7.


40 posted on 07/10/2013 7:18:55 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: xzins; onyx
Very well said by the both of you and absolutely true.
41 posted on 07/10/2013 8:29:06 AM PDT by jazusamo ("I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white." T. Sowell)
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To: Gaffer
"I have held my nose for the very LAST time. I suspect many others have also. GOPe is making a deadly fatal error if it thinks they can bullshit us any more."

I'm with you. This is very troubling to me, coming from Cuccinelli. If he isn't going to offer Virginia a clear alternative to that carpetbagging crook, McAuliffe, then McAuliffe is who we will end up with.

42 posted on 07/10/2013 8:51:06 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization).)
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To: theBuckwheat

Agreed. Government can issue everyone a “civil union”. Marriage can be performed by the church. It was a mistake to ever integrate government into marriage to begin with.


43 posted on 07/10/2013 12:51:01 PM PDT by RB156
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To: xzins; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AFA-Michigan; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Abathar; Absolutely Nobama; ...
Homosexual Agenda and Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda or moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search
[ Add keyword homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

Just read xzin's comments - he says it all.

Anyone wanting on/off any of my ping lists, freepmail me.

44 posted on 07/10/2013 12:52:57 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: RB156; theBuckwheat

The reason this “get the gov out of marriage” is a bogus argument is because marriage has been recognized for thousands of years as a legal status. It’s that simple. It’s not about “getting permission” from the gov, it’s about legal status, which means “gov” of some kind even if local. If the gov does not recognize marriage as a legal state, then anarchy ensues.


45 posted on 07/10/2013 12:55:04 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: xzins

Sorry for the brevity earlier but work was unreal. You are dead on as usual!

LLS


46 posted on 07/10/2013 3:26:31 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: markomalley
And like it or not, there are a lot of gay Republicans out there

There ARE? Like, how many is "many"?

47 posted on 07/10/2013 3:32:49 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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48 posted on 07/10/2013 3:49:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: IamConservative

As it should. There really is no need for a 2nd Democratic party.


49 posted on 07/10/2013 7:38:06 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: RB156

I’ve read that argument but let’s face facts. The pro-homonazi “marriage” crowd won’t settle for that. They want it enforced with the full force of the state on everyone now.


50 posted on 07/10/2013 7:58:25 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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