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Would George Zimmerman have been acquitted in every state?
American Thinker ^ | July 14,2013 | Rick Moran

Posted on 07/14/2013 6:34:00 PM PDT by Hojczyk

One of the great strengths of our federal system is that individual states are allowed to define things like self-defense according to local community standards. In a continental country, a one size fits all legal code couldn't possibly work. People, to state the obvious, are different.Your average Floridian has a far different opinion about guns in society than your average New Yorker. Even issues like personal safety might vary from state to state,

I'm pretty sure if the Zimmerman-Martin incident had occurred in Illinois, a good prosecutor would have convicted George Zimmerman of manslaughter. My understanding is that self defense in Illinois is predicated on the level of force necessary to protect oneself. Since Trayvon Martin did not have a gun, the prosector's argument would be that Zimmerman used an unacceptable level of force to protect himself. And an Illinois jury could easily have seen it that way.

Similarly, I imagine in Texas, or Louisiana, or some other Southern state, Zimmerman would have had a better chance of being acquitted. That's the point that Cohen misses. Florida's self defense statute may be "outlandishly broad" to him but I would imagine to most people in Florida, it sounds about right.

Cohen's rather dramatic interpretation of the facts as we know them - that Zimmerman went "looking for trouble" and that neighborhood watch participants are "vigilantes" - is more evidence of a regional bias at work in the author's writing. Perhaps citizens in New York are more comfortable waiting for police to show up and save their property - or their lives - than in empowering their neighbors to proactively prevent crime. Given the draconian restrictions on guns in New York, that attitude would seem to work for local residents and is an acceptable, if incomprehensible to many, opinion to hold.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blackkk; florida; georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin

1 posted on 07/14/2013 6:34:00 PM PDT by Hojczyk
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To: Hojczyk

Does it matter?


2 posted on 07/14/2013 6:36:46 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,)
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To: Hojczyk

3 posted on 07/14/2013 6:37:24 PM PDT by JoeProBono (Mille vocibus imago valet;-{)
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To: Hojczyk
Or for that matter
What difference, at this point, does it make?
4 posted on 07/14/2013 6:38:27 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,)
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To: Hojczyk

5 posted on 07/14/2013 6:39:34 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's next run. What'll you do?)
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To: Hojczyk

In a lot of states Zimmerman would never had been charged.


6 posted on 07/14/2013 6:40:18 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: Hojczyk

In Texas, he never would have even been arrested.


7 posted on 07/14/2013 6:40:23 PM PDT by Licensed-To-Carry (Hey Obama! It's all your fault now, you own it.)
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To: gov_bean_ counter
Exactly.

So much time and verbage (brain energy) is wasted by trying to determine if X=Y and why or why not.

We have a nation to reclaim and NOW is the time to strike.

8 posted on 07/14/2013 6:41:44 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
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To: Hojczyk

up most of the north hell no, he;d be gone but thankfully we have gun carry, stand your ground and self defence


9 posted on 07/14/2013 6:42:57 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Hojczyk

Probably California, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Michigan, and New Jersey.


10 posted on 07/14/2013 6:45:45 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Hojczyk

In illinois he would be dead. Like in Chicago.


11 posted on 07/14/2013 6:46:16 PM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: Hojczyk
It always depends on the jury.

Get six Melissa Harris-Perrys on the jury and he's toast, even if you have video of Trayvon bashing Zimmerman's skull into the concrete.

12 posted on 07/14/2013 6:47:40 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Who knew that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional journalism?)
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To: buffaloguy

Forgot about Illinois, oh and also Hawaii.

Actually Southern Illinois is pretty conservative but is so outvoted by Chicago etc.


13 posted on 07/14/2013 6:49:57 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Hojczyk
"Zimmerman-Martin incident had occurred in Illinois, a good prosecutor would have convicted George Zimmerman of manslaughter."

In Illinois, GZ would not have even been armed, and the Martin goon would certainly would have worked him over pretty good, if not worse. And Trayvon, the poor little dear, would have gotten of easy, if not just plain walked.

More "Just-Us."

14 posted on 07/14/2013 6:52:18 PM PDT by YHAOS
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To: Hojczyk
Not here in the Gay State.A jury of 12 times 12 would have voted,unanimously,to convict on all counts within an hour.
15 posted on 07/14/2013 6:52:31 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: Hojczyk
I'm pretty sure if the Zimmerman-Martin incident had occurred in Illinois, a good prosecutor would have convicted George Zimmerman of manslaughter.

That's pure BS. The facts were all on Zimmerman's side.

Zimmerman lost track of TM who then jumped him and proceeded to beat him. Unless "thuggery from the bushes" is legal in other states, then there's no negligence of any kind here on Zimmerman's part.

Zero

16 posted on 07/14/2013 6:56:24 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Hojczyk

Would TM have been convicted in every state of aggravated assault?


17 posted on 07/14/2013 6:57:09 PM PDT by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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18 posted on 07/14/2013 7:01:25 PM PDT by RedMDer (When immigrants cannot or will not assimilate, its really just an invasion. Throw them out!)
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To: Hojczyk

Well just last night NY proved the state gestapo cannot be trusted to respond to a situation in a timely manner and at the same time restrict our rights to self defense.

We had the occasion to call the NY Storm Troopers at 3:30am this morning about a situation in the neighborhood. We live in a small town SE of Buffalo and the doughnut muncher on the phone said no car was available for an hour or so.

So the same communists who would restrict our right to self defense cannot provide police response in under an hour.

Fortunately this was not a situation requiring more than 7 bullets.


19 posted on 07/14/2013 7:08:57 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam! 969)
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To: Hojczyk

Would he have ever been charged anywhere but Florida?


20 posted on 07/14/2013 7:16:10 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Licensed-To-Carry

>> In Texas, he never would have even been arrested.

YEP — and that is the *real* purpose of self defense/stand-your-ground/castle doctrine laws.

Not so you can use them to beat a rap in court — but so you never END UP in court because you are never charged with a crime.

Now, to be fair to Florida — Local law enforcement didn’t charge Zimmerman initially because in their (proven correct) judgment he was acting in self defense. And — if Corey or anyone else had convened a grand jury, IMO they would have no-billed the case. It’s only because that satan’s spawn Corey sidestepped grand jury and ginned up a charging document that poor Zimmerman ended up fighting for his life in court. Even liberal Dershowitz realized that Corey’s charging document was a fiction.


21 posted on 07/14/2013 7:16:27 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: yarddog
Probably California, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Michigan, and New Jersey.

Sorry, but regardless of the opinion most people on FR have of California, Zimmerman would probably not have been arrested at all. CA law allows for size differential, experience in fighting and age differences when it comes to self defense. Zimmerman, at the time of the fight, was a lot smaller than Martin and had less experience in fighting(this evidence would have been allowed in CA)than Martin.

I am of an age, 71, where if any person who is significantly younger than I am attacks me(in CA) I can use a gun to defend myself regardless of how the other person is armed.

A lot of our laws were made before the idiotic lefties took over and they still stand.

A few years ago, not many, in Salinas, CA a guy defended himself by shooting someone, the news media picked it up and started the same BS that Zimmerman faced, the local sheriff got on the air and in the new papers and read the riot act to people about self defense and how this was a perfectly legal shooting.

Depends on the county also, many counties, including mine, are bright red, we are just out numbered population wise by the left in the cities.

22 posted on 07/14/2013 7:18:41 PM PDT by calex59
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To: Hojczyk

What an F’ing waste of band width, he should be addressing the criminal behavior of the ObamaFascists, the list is very long and long getting longer.


23 posted on 07/14/2013 7:19:19 PM PDT by stockpirate (Rule number one: NEVER BRING SKITTLES TO A GUN FIGHT!)
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To: calex59

Hopefully you are right but the whole OJ fiasco left a bad taste in my mouth for California justice.


24 posted on 07/14/2013 7:21:44 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Hojczyk

Beating a head on a sidewalk is assault with a deadly weapon.


25 posted on 07/14/2013 7:25:00 PM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: Hojczyk

I was just reading that in 49 states once a person makes a claim of self defense the prosecution has to disprove the claim “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

The ‘oddball’ state?
Ohio, Which reqauires the self defense claim be proved by “a preponderance of the evidence”.

Of course that’s just ‘the law’ and doesn’t account for local prejudice and superstition or, of course, politics and money.


26 posted on 07/14/2013 7:33:57 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: Hojczyk

How many states would have violated his 5th Amendment right to a grand jury? Is there a grand jury in any of the fifty states that would have charge him? When you find that state, district, city, you will possibly find where GZ might have been convicted.


27 posted on 07/14/2013 7:39:33 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Hojczyk

Every state but the Media State.


28 posted on 07/14/2013 7:53:06 PM PDT by tennmountainman
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To: Hojczyk
...and you can find that trouble, and you can act upon that trouble in a way that leaves a young man dead, and none of it guarantees that you will be convicted of a crime.

The trouble with limited intellects with a word processor is that these delusional morons deal in absolutes, based entirely on unsupported assumptions and inferences.

It totally escapes this intellectually handicapped doofus, that in a complex set of circumstances, there can NEVER be a guarantee that there can be a conviction.

That's why our system relies on juries to make that decision, instead of moron columnists.

29 posted on 07/14/2013 8:10:25 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
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To: Hojczyk

Hypothetical, thy name is Irrelevant.

But for your fun, I would GUESS no. But I’d preface the guess by saying MOST would except a small few.


30 posted on 07/14/2013 8:10:36 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Hojczyk

Zimmerman would have been convicted in EVERY traditionally blue state, IMHO.


31 posted on 07/14/2013 8:19:22 PM PDT by Rembrandt (Part of the 51% who pay Federal taxes)
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To: Hojczyk

What a load of crap....self defense is exactly that,
SELF DEFENSE. Where you are on some map with arbitrarily
drawn lines has absolutely NOTHING to do with the right
to protect life and limb from violence and criminal action.

Just as the right to infringe on other rights is assumed
to be a geographical variable based on arbitrary factors
this is merely more of the “we will decide what is or is
not a right” bullsh*t.


32 posted on 07/14/2013 8:23:54 PM PDT by nvscanman
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To: Hojczyk
Zimmerman would have been acquitted 9 out of 10 times, regardless of the state.

It was very straightforward self defense. For thousands of years, deadly force has been justified to prevent great bodily injury to oneself or another.

Left wing authoritarians are trying to destroy Freedom itself, and the right to use deadly force in lawful self-defense is a foundational pillar of human Freedom.

Furthermore, when someone is making an argument for self-defense, what is relevant is if they reasonably felt threatened as to loss of life or limb. In other words, if other reasonable people could reach the same conclusion.

Establishing the reasonableness of that state of mind, whether there has been injury sustained by the victim or not, is critical to determining when legitimate exercise of self defense has occurred.

The Zimmerman case easily established the reasonableness of his fear for loss of life or limb. It was 100% legitimate, and, barring judicial misbehavior, that is why GZ would walk away from this charge in almost any venue in America.

At least that's my understanding of self-defense theory and jurisprudence. I know these notions didn't originate in Florida.

33 posted on 07/14/2013 8:38:55 PM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these here Boncentration Bamps!)
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To: Hojczyk

Not in crapholes like all of Kali or any city area.


34 posted on 07/14/2013 8:48:00 PM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: Hojczyk
PA has the "Castle doctrine" in effect which simply means that when you go any where, the same rights that you have in your home, {for self protection} travel with you...no retreat required.

It is very much the same as stand your ground, which means you don't have to wait to be beaten to a pulp or stabbed or shot, before you blow your attacker to kingdom come.

I never leave home unarmed and I always have at least one extra speed loader or ammo clip.

35 posted on 07/14/2013 8:52:25 PM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, start today.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
lmao
36 posted on 07/14/2013 8:53:35 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party, advancing indentured constituency for 150 years.)
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To: Hojczyk

If he were a billionaire.


37 posted on 07/14/2013 8:57:42 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Hojczyk

Yeah pretty much.
I think people in every State are smart enough to know when they are being used buy the Government and will do the right thing and vote the evidence and not the spin........


38 posted on 07/14/2013 9:07:25 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I go to sign up for the American Revolution 2013 and the Crusades 2013?)
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To: Hojczyk

Not in DC....


39 posted on 07/14/2013 9:08:31 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Howdy to all you government agents spying on me.)
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To: OrangeHoof
Not in DC....

Right on. I remember about ten years ago, I went to a call for a robbery in DC - we call it "Robbery-Holdup (Gun)". When we got there, the victim (an Asian guy) was holding the suspect (a black guy) at gunpoint.

It emerged that while the black guy was holding up the Asian guy, the Asian guy grabbed the gun and held the suspect until police arrived. I was there as backup only (it wasn't my "sector"), so I watched in horror as they arrested the Asian guy for Carrying a Pistol Without a License.

Man I hate that city.

40 posted on 07/14/2013 9:13:45 PM PDT by 101stAirborneVet
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To: Hojczyk

I don’t think Nancy Grace could handle 57 TrayTrials.


41 posted on 07/14/2013 9:14:33 PM PDT by moovova
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The Martin race hustling lawyers told them that Zimmerman stalked Trayvon and started the fight. Therefore Trayvon had a right to “stand his ground” and could have legally killed Zimmerman. Then the press was told. Then the prosecutors ran with it. Sadly, most blacks and many whites believe the story. Give them the facts and it won’t matter. The same as giving them facts about obama.


42 posted on 07/14/2013 9:25:29 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (If you vote for evil because you can't see evil, you ARE evil!)
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To: Hojczyk

A better question to ask is in which states would the prosecutors have been prosecuted. North Carolina, for one.


43 posted on 07/14/2013 9:41:53 PM PDT by Defiant (In the next rebellion, the rebels will be the ones carrying the American flag.)
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To: Licensed-To-Carry
In Texas, he never would have even been arrested.

He most likely would have been. The usual practice in Texas is to refer all claims of self defense to a Grand Jury. It would be politically foolish for a DA to decide on his own authority that it was OK to kill someone.

44 posted on 07/14/2013 9:58:05 PM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: Hojczyk
Re: “In Illinois, since Trayvon Martin did not have a gun, the prosecutor’s argument would be that Zimmerman used an unacceptable level of force to protect himself.”

Then, the Illinois prosecutor needs an education in murder statistics.

In 2012, from memory.....

740 people were murdered by punches and kicks.

360 people were murdered by shotguns and rifles.

45 posted on 07/14/2013 10:00:45 PM PDT by zeestephen
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To: Hojczyk

Don’t be distracted. The Federal government is going to use sleight of hand, to keep our attention focussed on riots and demonstrations like the ones in Oakland, San Francisco and elsewhere, to try and give Boehner and Cantor breathing room to force amnesty for illegal aliens down our throats. DON’T LET THEM DO THIS!!


46 posted on 07/14/2013 10:14:57 PM PDT by Piranha (We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.)
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To: Hojczyk

By not going after the true culprit or the methods implemented Moran of American Thinker illustrates my point
If racial unrest follows Zimmerman jury decision, blame it on Activist Obama
Saturday, July 13, 2013 12:08:14 PM · 18 of 26
mosesdapoet to rktman
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3042477/posts
This is reference to an editorial run in Canada Free Press. The Canadians got it right.! Too bad half of the so called conservatives talk show hosts I’ve been listening to can’t seem to be willing to connect the dots to what a heavy hand his imperious highness played in this example of socialist justice meted out to serve the policies of the state . Turning this into a show trial replete with wall to wall tv coverage.

.For certain since the not guilty verdict has been rendered the facts of this case are still being concealed by the media such as pictures of both side by side they look like cousins. The mixed area that Zimmerman was a “watch captain” in was struggling with single and groups of young blacks on the prowl.,In some instances armed, preying on homeowners.in his area..That area wasn’t even examinined because it wouldn’t fit their agenda.. Which if done ,if true journalisim existed, because that might explain his action of surveilance . In many watch areas that’s done frequently when the subject disappears from view.

Even after learning the shooter was not Jewish and a very dark skinned “hispanic” Obama did nothing to curtail the hyperbole or tone down his edict creating this as a racist episode. The socialists controlling the media propaganda machine oblidged.. They began claiming the neighborhood watch captain was a “white hispanic” .or used a picture of a 12 year old Martin instead of the 6 foot 165 pound person he was vs the smaller 140 pound neighborhood watch captain. Worse yet allowed his US Attorney General to use questionable activities to promote a show trial and ignored using a threat of prosecution to black militant groups threatening the watch captain’s life.

Meanwhile attacks by black groups on selected happless white victims which wind in their death get ignored by the mainline socialist messengers MSM service and black on black killings many of the age of the so called victim is likewise same-o same-o.


47 posted on 07/15/2013 1:34:46 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
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