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We Have to Step In and Save Detroit
New York Times ^ | July 19, 2013 | STEVEN RATTNER

Posted on 07/20/2013 12:46:04 PM PDT by reaganaut1

...

But while Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder has capably overseen Detroit’s march to Chapter 9, neither the state nor the federal government has evinced any inclination to provide meaningful financial assistance.

That’s a mistake. No one likes bailouts or the prospect of rewarding Detroit’s historic fiscal mismanagement. But apart from voting in elections, the 700,000 remaining residents of the Motor City are no more responsible for Detroit’s problems than were the victims of Hurricane Sandy for theirs, and eventually Congress decided to help them.

America is just as much about aiding those less fortunate as it is about personal responsibility. Government does this in so many ways; why shouldn’t it help Detroit rebuild itself?

Many call for scaling back the city to fit realistic population projections. While logical, the potential for downsizing Detroit is limited because the city’s population didn’t flee from just one neighborhood; the departures were scattered, requiring Detroit to deliver services across a geographic area the size of Philadelphia, with less than half the population. Further cuts will surely come, but in some key areas, like public safety and blight removal, Detroit needs to spend more, not less.

That necessitates large-scale reductions in its liabilities, which total as much as $18 billion. By comparison, the country’s second largest municipal bankruptcy — that of Jefferson County, Ala., which is slightly smaller than Detroit in population — involves $4 billion of liabilities.

Detroit faces greater challenges than the automakers because the structure of its obligations is quite different from those of General Motors and Chrysler.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: chapter9; detroit; michigan; rattner; rosemaryaquillina
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No! But watch out, I would not be surprised if the Rats in the White House and elsewhere try to pull something. Other Rat-run cities such as Los Angeles and Chicago are also headed for bankruptcy.
1 posted on 07/20/2013 12:46:04 PM PDT by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1

I’m OK with NYC bailing out Destroit.

Just don’t come begging money from the rest of America. We’ve got enough of our own problems.


2 posted on 07/20/2013 12:47:50 PM PDT by EricT. (This post has been recorded and cataloged for your security.)
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To: reaganaut1

We don’t have to save Detroit, that is what elections are for. The only problem in Detroit is too much RAT poison.


3 posted on 07/20/2013 12:47:56 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: reaganaut1
"We Have to Step In and Save Detroit"

BOHICA!

4 posted on 07/20/2013 12:48:16 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Toddsterpatriot; Mase; expat_panama; 1010RD

Thank you Mr. Rattner, but we’ll try to handle this on our own. No, really.


5 posted on 07/20/2013 12:48:28 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: American in Israel

Throwing money at Detroit is like trying to cure a RAT problem by over feeding them.


6 posted on 07/20/2013 12:48:37 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: reaganaut1
No, you don't. You only want to make the leach healthy again so it can drag us down further. Please go away and let the people of Michigan deal with this leach on our state.
7 posted on 07/20/2013 12:48:43 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Revenge is a dish best served with pinto beans and muffins)
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To: reaganaut1

The comments at the link are great. The vast majority are staunchly against any kind of bailout. Even the ones who are for a bailout are very halfhearted about it.

When you’ve lost the comment section of the New York Times ...


8 posted on 07/20/2013 12:49:08 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: cripplecreek

fyi, an Obama minion speaks


9 posted on 07/20/2013 12:51:49 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: reaganaut1

F FUBO NO!


10 posted on 07/20/2013 12:52:10 PM PDT by max americana (fired liberals in our company after the election, & laughed while they cried (true story))
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To: reaganaut1

the first question should be why the nyt lets a criminal lke rattner write a column anyway.


11 posted on 07/20/2013 12:52:26 PM PDT by willywill
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To: reaganaut1

No, we don’t.


12 posted on 07/20/2013 12:53:37 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: reaganaut1; mickie; flaglady47
Only Detroit voters can save Detroit. But they'll still vote for 'Rats next election even though their world is caving in around them.

I'll bet even a Republican city election slate would be made up of 'Rats masquerading as GOP.

In short, any effort, even by the Feds, is going to be throwing money down a 'Rat hole.

These Obama voters are so smart...smarter than everyone else......let's see them get out of this by themselves.

Leni

13 posted on 07/20/2013 12:54:26 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: reaganaut1
The only things that would "save" Detroit would be for incentives to be put in place to entice about 500,000 taxpayers to move back while getting the city pensioners to move to DC.

And, for only conservative Republicans to be allowed to run for office for the next 20 years.

14 posted on 07/20/2013 12:54:35 PM PDT by Slyfox (Without the Right to Life, all other rights are meaningless.)
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To: reaganaut1

Somebody should tell the writter that the residents of NY didn’t vote to have have a Hurricane hit them.

So Yes, the folks in Detroit deserve what they get.


15 posted on 07/20/2013 12:54:46 PM PDT by PeteB570 ( Islam is the sea in which the Terrorist Shark swims. The deeper the sea the larger the shark.)
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To: reaganaut1

Hail no!


16 posted on 07/20/2013 12:54:52 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: reaganaut1

Detroit, one of our HMCs. (Historically Mismanaged City)

Why not, if we can have historically black colleges???


17 posted on 07/20/2013 12:56:09 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: reaganaut1

there will be a long list of cities ans states demanding bailouts - and getting them


18 posted on 07/20/2013 12:56:52 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: reaganaut1

Millions if not billions of taxpayer dollars would do nothing to help Detroit in the long term. Like all of the other bailouts and stimulus dollars forked over by Obama, the money would be funneled into the pockets of unions and cronies and generally wasted.


19 posted on 07/20/2013 12:56:54 PM PDT by The Great RJ (construction)
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To: reaganaut1

Have a tv reality show where monster trucks and other gear tear down the old buildings. Have Carzilla take apart buildings.

20 posted on 07/20/2013 12:56:54 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: reaganaut1

apart from voting in elections, the 700,000 remaining residents of the Motor City are no more responsible for Detroit’s problems

Why “apart from voting”?

Seems to me that’s how they got IN this mess.


21 posted on 07/20/2013 12:57:52 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Revolting cat!

I saw that Detroit, with a population of 700,000, has 10,000 city workers on the payroll. I ain’t no genius but I bet you could trim just a few of them.


22 posted on 07/20/2013 12:58:05 PM PDT by shelterguy
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To: reaganaut1

23 posted on 07/20/2013 12:58:19 PM PDT by 4Liberty (Some on our "Roads & Bridges" head to the beach. Others head to their offices, farms, libraries....)
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To: willywill
Absolutely not, if we help that flea bitter Rat infested hell hole of Detroit, then every other Rat infested Union nest, will be at the door with their hat in in their hand. Let the people that caused the problem deal with it.
24 posted on 07/20/2013 12:58:33 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 (Behind every successful man is and amazed Mother In Law.)
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To: reaganaut1

We have two choices.

Either we let democrats “fix” it or conservatives come up with real free market solutions.

Those are the only legitimate choices because Detroit is barely a pimple compared to what lies just over the horizon and we better have workable solutions when it comes.


25 posted on 07/20/2013 12:59:21 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: reaganaut1

No Mr. Rattner, we need to step in and save our country from the liberal policies that are ruining us.


26 posted on 07/20/2013 12:59:24 PM PDT by dowcaet
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To: reaganaut1
the 700,000 remaining residents of the Motor City are no more responsible for Detroit’s problems than were the victims of Hurricane Sandy for theirs,

Really? Detroit's politicians are appointed and not elected?

(Detroit's final Republican mayor left office 51 years ago, when Detroit was still a great place to live and work. Then, after just 5 years with Dems in control, the Race Riots took place. Since then, the white population of the city went from 1.1 million to 55,000 today. Purely coincidental, and has NOTHING to do with voting, political choices, city laws, city taxes or anything else. It was an act of God, like Hurricane Sandy, and you can NOT blame anyone, especially anyone with a slightly higher melanin content in their skin. Heaven forfend!!)

27 posted on 07/20/2013 12:59:26 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: reaganaut1

No we don’t Steve. Detroit is a rat-infested hell-hole.

Your very own NYC is due soon. CWII couldn’t happen soon enough. It seems that all the rat infested hell-holes of the north have messed their bed and must now lie in it.


28 posted on 07/20/2013 1:00:11 PM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: reaganaut1

Don’t worry Detroit, the Congress will add a earmark to the amnesty bill giving you all the money you need to pay those union pensions.


29 posted on 07/20/2013 1:00:44 PM PDT by AmusedBystander (The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next)
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To: eyedigress

Count me (and my money) out. I don’t want to give these feral lawless losers in detroit any help or any thing.


30 posted on 07/20/2013 1:01:16 PM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: reaganaut1

“But apart from voting in elections” is like asking Molly Todd Lincoln “Other than that, how was the play?”. The voters and unions got what they wanted and killed the golden goose. Detroit can always be useful, as an example of how NOT to manage a city.


31 posted on 07/20/2013 1:02:30 PM PDT by Temujinshordes
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To: reaganaut1

I have one simple reason the NYTimes writer is wrong - the people of Detroit elected the governments that got them where they are today. The people that tried to elect different government in Detroit, and failed, left in frustration. Indirectly, the people left in Detroit ARE responsible - they got the governments they asked for. That’s why everyone else left.

The only way to help them now would be to ask them nothing and impose some solutions on them. Oh gee; that’s what a bankruptcy court is going to do for us. There - mission accomplished.


32 posted on 07/20/2013 1:03:02 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: reaganaut1

Saving Detroit sets the precedent for saving California and Illinois.


33 posted on 07/20/2013 1:04:06 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (http://jonah2eight.blogspot.com/)
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To: reaganaut1

Why is it every time I hear a liberal say “we have to...” I can feel a hand in my wallet?


34 posted on 07/20/2013 1:06:07 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Justice for Trayvon: Dig up his body and shoot him again.)
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To: reaganaut1

They can just use some of Obama’s money. What would Rattner think if I bought a car and made him pay for it? Why should the rest of the country bail out people who knowingly and consistently voted for crooks? Try to get your neighbors to pay your mortgage. See what they say.


35 posted on 07/20/2013 1:06:08 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: reaganaut1

After reading Rattner’s bio. and since he so firmly believes that Detroit should be bailed out, my suggestion is that Rattner use his millions to bail Detroit out.

Detroit is what happens when you run out of other people’s money to spend, Mr. Rattner! Spend some of yours and save Detroit!


36 posted on 07/20/2013 1:06:26 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: reaganaut1
But apart from voting in elections, the 700,000 remaining residents of the Motor City are no more responsible for Detroit’s problems than were the victims of Hurricane Sandy for theirs, and eventually Congress decided to help them.

STOP RIGHT THERE. "Apart from voting in elections." That is the difference and you CANNOT make an equivalence with hurricane relief by dismissing that pesky little fact.

Furthermore, if you ignore that abysmal electoral choices played a major role in causing the problem, you also miss the fact that abysmal electoral choices will follow during the "recovery."

Does the phrase "throwing good money after bad" ring any bells, Rattner?

37 posted on 07/20/2013 1:06:26 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: Slyfox
The only things that would "save" Detroit would be for incentives to be put in place to entice about 500,000 taxpayers to move back...

That's what I was going to say, but I was going to call for forced relocation.

The only thing left to save Detroit is for Obama's domestic army to round up people and forcibly relocate them to Detroit. Nobody's going to willingly move there now.

The state should just demolish the empty sections and resize the city boundaries.

-PJ

38 posted on 07/20/2013 1:07:20 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: reaganaut1

Let Detroit return to the earth and name it Liberal National Monument.


39 posted on 07/20/2013 1:07:40 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: reaganaut1
America is just as much about aiding those less fortunate as it is about personal responsibility

What sort of feeble-minded scumbag would write something like this?

40 posted on 07/20/2013 1:08:21 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

I think the city has already been doing that... Operation Move the deck chairs


41 posted on 07/20/2013 1:09:17 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: reaganaut1

Too late to save the historic parts of Detroit, they were raised in the 80s to make room for the parking lot of a Cadillac plant, remember?


42 posted on 07/20/2013 1:09:55 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: reaganaut1

Cities come, cities go....Adapt or die.


43 posted on 07/20/2013 1:10:19 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: reaganaut1
This is when we should have a discussion about Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest.

Darwin didn't create it, he just discovered it.
It is nature's way of strengthening the population by rewarding the most successful.

By rewarding the corruption and recklessness of cities like Detroit at he expense of prudent cities, you take away the incentive for cities to live within their means. You incentivize cities go hog wild, secure in the knowledge that somebody else will have to pick up the tab.

44 posted on 07/20/2013 1:10:38 PM PDT by oldbrowser (We have a rogue government in Washington)
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To: American in Israel
Throwing money at Detroit is like trying to cure a RAT problem by over feeding them.

The analogy I think of is trying to drown an eel in the town pond.

45 posted on 07/20/2013 1:10:40 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Justice for Trayvon: Dig up his body and shoot him again.)
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To: reaganaut1

Whenever Detroit falls off another cliff I feel compelled to repeat this excellent article originally posted in 2009.

http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=10743

Posted: July 6, 2009
Detroit: The Triumph of Progressive Public Policy
By Jarrett Skorup

Imagine a city where all the major economic planks of the statist or “progressive” platform have been enacted:

•A “living wage” ordinance, far above the federal minimum wage, for all public employees and private contractors.
•A school system that spends significantly more per pupil than the national average.
•A powerful school employee union that militantly defends the exceptional pay, benefits and job security it has won for its members.
•A powerful government employee union that does the same for its members.
•A tax system that aggressively redistributes income from businesses and the wealthy to the poor and to government bureaucracies.

Would this be a shining city on a hill, exciting the admiration of all? We don’t have to guess, because there is such a city right here in our state: Detroit

Detroit has been dubbed “the most liberal city in America” and each of these “progressive” policies is alive and well there. How have they worked out?

In 1950, Detroit was the wealthiest city in America on a per capita income basis. Today, the Census Bureau reports that it is the nation’s 2nd poorest major city, just “edging out” Cleveland.

Could it be pure coincidence that the decline occurred over the same period in which union power, the city government bureaucracy, taxes and business regulations all multiplied? While correlation is not causation, it is striking that the decline in per capita income is exactly what classical economists predict would occur when wage controls are imposed and taxes are increased.

Specifically, “price theory” predicts that artificially high business costs caused by excessive regulation and above-market labor compensation rates imposed by so-called “living wages” will lead to an increase in unemployment. Detroit’s minimum wage is a whopping $7.40 an hour, more than $2 above the federal minimum wage when it was enacted; and pressure groups are pushing for more. Additionally, any company contracting with the city must pay its employees $8.23 an hour if they offer benefits or $10.28 an hour if they do not offer benefits.

Such high wage mandates are especially hard on individuals with a poor education and low skills. If struggling and heavily taxed businesses cannot pay such high wages, then they are more selective about the few workers they do hire or go out of business altogether. Those who have promulgated these polices may be well intentioned, but mainstream economists have warned for decades that such policies were very likely to bring about the abject poverty and unemployment that characterize Detroit today. The city has the highest unemployment rate among all large U.S. cities. (On a side note, Michigan is home to eight of the 20 cities overall with the highest unemployment and has the highest state unemployment in the country.)

A similar pattern has played out in public education. It is now conventional wisdom among the political class that higher pay for teachers and increased spending per student lead to improvements in teacher quality and student performance. Again, correlation is not causation, but Detroit Public Schools strongly suggests that this theory must be rejected. It has chronically underperformed state averages, yet reforms are vehemently opposed by the system’s powerful school employee union.

At the same time that union, the Detroit Federation of Teachers, has won rich salary and benefits packages for its members. Median compensation for a DPS teacher is $76,000 and Detroit spends the third highest amount of money per student among 76 large cities nationwide. Statewide, Detroit’s spending per pupil is in the 91st percentile and DPS teachers are paid at the 96th percentile. For all that, by almost any measure Detroit schools have for decades failed their students: test scores, safety, drop out rates, etc. For example, Detroit’s public school students perform at the 3rd percentile in the state - that is, they are in the lowest 3 percent, and the district is in its second state takeover in a decade.

In the private sector such failure would result in mass firings for unsatisfactory performance. No doubt such a response would be condemned by the progressives who support the school employee unions that have made similar actions impossible in their institutions, and have opposed major transformation at every turn.

For example, in 2003 philanthropist Bob Thompson offered $200 million to build 15 charter public schools in the city in which he would guarantee a 90 percent graduation rate. In response, the DFT balked because charter schools are not unionized. The outcome was that the union jobs trumped better outcomes for children.

People vote with their feet, and all the above suggests why, over the past decade, DPS has lost about 10,000 students each year to charter, independent and suburban schools.

Of course it would be unfair to place all the blame for the city’s decline on public employee unions. Detroit is home to the Big Three, whose contracts with their own powerful unions provided the model for those public employee arrangements. The UAW successfully extracted wages and benefits estimated at $71 per hour before the recent shake-ups began.

This is about $25 more per hour than the amount foreign-owned U.S. auto manufacturing plants pay their non-unionized American workers. Due to this disparity, Japanese car companies earn some $1,000 to $2,000 more on each car sold than their American counterparts. The outcome has been a relentless loss of market share that, among other things, has devastated the economic engine that once powered Motor City prosperity.

In addition to being a model of progressive economic, labor and education policy, Detroit is also a case study in welfare statism. Tom Bray, former editorial page editor for The Detroit News, has made the following observation:

“Detroit, remember, was going to be the ‘Model City’ of Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society, the shining example of what the ‘fairness’ of the welfare state can produce. Billions of dollars later, Detroit instead has become the model of everything that can go wrong when you hook people on the idea of something for nothing - a once-middle class city of nearly 2 million that is now a poverty-stricken city of less than 900,000.”

Progressives will complain that this portrait oversimplifies the factors involved in a great city’s decline. Perhaps it does, but with this question in mind: At what point does the weight of evidence and logic make it impossible to avoid concluding that in the case of Detroit, correlation is causation?


Jarrett Skorup is a 2009 graduate of Grove City College with a dual major in history and political science. He is a research intern at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a research and educational institute headquartered in Midland, Mich. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is hereby granted, provided that the author and the Center are properly cited.


46 posted on 07/20/2013 1:10:45 PM PDT by Rockitz (This is NOT rocket science - Follow the money and you'll find the truth.)
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To: reaganaut1

Screw Detroit. Let it stand as a glittering example of democrat mismanagement.


47 posted on 07/20/2013 1:12:08 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: reaganaut1

Too late. I remember reading decades ago about Detroit’s “Witches Night”. People burning down abandoned houses for entertainment. I thought to myself, how stupid and dangerous is it to set fire to your own neighborhood. Where have the Steven Rattners of the World been these years?


48 posted on 07/20/2013 1:12:56 PM PDT by popdonnelly (The right to self-defense is older than the Constitution.)
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To: reaganaut1

Thanks for posting this. Rattner is a moron, but the comments over at the Times site were pretty good. Either they’ve been invaded by a horde of right wingers or even their liberal readers are in no mood to bail out Detroit.


49 posted on 07/20/2013 1:18:32 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: GeronL
Imagine...

Obama cites the school busing program (used to integrate schools by rezoning white students to black schools and vice versa) to declare that cities must integrate the same way.

Obama then directs the IRS to only accept tax forms from people if they contain the government-assigned zip code for the household. Otherwise, the tax form is rejected and the family is fined or jailed for not filing income taxes.

Move or go to prison.

-PJ

50 posted on 07/20/2013 1:19:15 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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