Posted on 07/24/2013 5:25:51 PM PDT by SMGFan
WASHINGTON, July 24 (UPI) -- The U.S. House Wednesday narrowly defeated Rep. Justin Amash's attempt to severely restrict the National Security Agency's telephone data mining.
The Michigan Republican's measure, opposed by the White House and congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle, was voted down 205-217, Roll Call reported.
(Excerpt) Read more at upi.com ...
I am in favor of the NSA doing what it is and has been doing since 2001..
I haven’t seen any report that the metadata has been used for more than checking if numbers, email adds or whatever are connected to foreign surveilance targets.
If there are credible reports of other use, without warrant, I have not seen them. That would be a very ‘big deal’ and I think widely reported.
You sure are trusting mrsmith.
Typically the govt. has all of our best interests at heart, and rarely deviates from their operating procedures.
That's the biggest problem: if it's collected at all it will be accessed, regardless of warrant.
You sound a lot more trusting than me. I hope you were using sarcasm to avoid my point.
I’m a hardcore “persons, houses, papers, and effects” Fourth Amendment guy. Though the metadata collecting smacks of “general warrant” I can not consider that data “persons, houses, papers, and effects”.
Convenience nor technological advances neccessarily increase people’s freedoms.
“if it’s collected at all it will be accessed”
I would assume so through error or malice, but I’ve seen no reports of it happening. Snowden didn’t present any evidence of it. There are claims the courts issue warrants too easily. That should be looked into.
But ‘metadata’ doesn’t have any Fouth Amendment cache anyway, and shouldn’t IMO.
Metadata is the characteristics of the communication: who to, how long, etc.
One big problem is that the message content is being harvested as well. It is not just meta-data.
Another problem is that even the meta-data can be used to implicate someone who is innocent: just look at the number of hops they're using in their observations: 3 hops (perhaps more). This is particularly disturbing when you consider that on average you can get from any person to any other person in an average of 4.7 hops.
There's no way that this can qualify for even probable cause (which is what is supposed to be grounds for getting a warrant, not bypassing the requirement thereof), much less the requirement that a warrant particularly describe
what is to be searched.
I'm sorry, but even mere meta-data (which is not all that is being collected) qualifies as unreasonable search
and therefore is a fourth amendment issue.
My wonderful, fantastic, quiet as a church mouse on any subject, (except when he feels like mailing one of those how goes it cards, that I pay for), so-called Republican, so-called conservative, Congressman Rodney Alexander, just slipped his voting constiuents, in the Central Louisiana area, another dry plastic banana suppository!
This mongrel dog voted NO on the bill.
He has been in office for three terms now.
I am not voting for the SCHTUPP.
Not every... 205 voted to curtail the spying.
You do remember the Death Star’s fate?
That way some senators can tell their constituents that they voted against a, b and c.
Some tell their constituents they voted against l, m and n.
Some that they voted against x, y and z.
Yet a, b, c...l, m, n...x, y and z all pass.
In that case you are in favor of ignoring the Constitutionally protected right to privacy.
Your Congress member may have commented during this debate
28:42 Minutes
Congress Votes To Continue NSA Spying On “EVERY PHONE CALL OF EVERY AMERICAN EVERYDAY!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KElJSklSIBM
Another thread
House votes to continue NSA surveillance program (217-205)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3046938/posts
The collection of content was banned by an amendment that did pass yesterday:
““SEC. XX. None of funds made available by this Act may be used by the National Security Agency to—
(1) conduct an acquisition pursuant to section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 for the purpose of targeting a United States person; or
(2) acquire, monitor, or store the contents (as such term is defined in section 2510(8) of title 18, United States Code) of any electronic communication of a United States person from a provider of electronic communication services to the public pursuant to section 501 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978.””
Now, instead of getting warrants to search the content in their own files, they must get warrants to search the providers’ files to see content.
So now someone outside of the NSA and FISA will know it’s being done.
That’s a great improvement (Assuming the amendment survives through passage).
Counting “Hops” is irrelevent. Buying a few “repeater” phones or email accounts will defeat any program limited by “hops”. It’s the efficiency of the algorithm used that determines how intrusive the program is. That should be monitored.
Just say, "We are terrorized!" Give the psychos their due. They won. They'd rather have this than a parade.
WHO installed these two Trojan Horse Dem puppets as GOP "leaders"?? ANYONE??
“There are legal constraints for how you can spy on Americans,” Greenwald said. “You can’t target them without going to the FISA court. But these systems allow analysts to listen to whatever emails they want, whatever telephone calls, browsing histories, Microsoft Word documents.”
“And it’s all done with no need to go to a court, with no need to even get supervisor approval on the part of the analyst,” he added.
The denials, such as this one from Sen. Chambliss seem rather tepid:
“In fact, we don’t monitor emails. That’s what kind of assures me is that what the reporting is is not correct. Because no emails are monitored now,” Chambliss said. “They used to be, but that stopped two or three years ago. So I feel confident that there may have been some abuse, but if it was it was pure accidental.”
I doubt the NSA is about to admit exactly what they are doing, as is to be expected for any intelligence agency. But Sen. Chambliss seems to be already laying down the "there may have been some abuse but it was accidental" card. Kind of like the "rogue IRS agents" we heard about earlier this year. I doubt anything "accidental" happens at an agency like the NSA.
Whenifhow wrote:
“Your Congress member may have commented during this debate.”
No, the esteemed Southern gentleman, (harumph), Congressman Rodney Alexander, 3rd term in office, spineless dolt that he is, did not!
He was to appear on the local (970am Alexandria LA) radio station, as is his custom on Thursday mornings, but even HIS STAFF, whom I had called, were unaware that he did NOT show on that program, the morning AFTER voting AGAINST defunding the NSA.
“I yield my time.”
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