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Pope Francis in Brazil: don't legalise drugs. Trendy politicians won't like this at all
The Telegraph ^ | 7/25/2013 | Colin Freeman

Posted on 07/25/2013 3:03:09 AM PDT by markomalley

A papal visit is usually a good thing for Latin American leaders, a chance to bask in the Pontiff's halo a bit and distract their largely Catholic voters from their usual woes of poverty, debt, and lousy government. The latest visit by Pope Francis to Brazil is no exception in that regard, although he chucked a bit of a spanner in the works last night with his comments on drug legalisation.

A growing chorus of Latin American leaders have been calling for the decriminalisation of drugs in the last couple of years, arguing that it is the only way to end the drug wars that are now claiming thousands of lives a year in Mexico and central America. Among those who back some kind of rethink is the Pope's fellow Argentinian, President Cristina Kirchner, who says that addicts shouldn't be treated as criminals. And while the argument has support among some on the political Right too, it has a particular appeal among "Chavista" types, who point out the drug wars are ultimately the fault of those greedy, coke-snorting gringos further north.

(snip)

However, in his comments yesterday while visiting a crack cocaine clinic in Rio, Pope Francis made it clear that he didn't agree. “A reduction in the spread and influence of drug addiction will not be achieved by a liberalisation of drug use, as is currently being proposed in various parts of Latin America,” he said. Instead, he said, it was necessary to confront the underlying problems of drug use, “educating young people in the values that build up life in society”.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 07/25/2013 3:03:09 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

God Bless Pope Francis!


2 posted on 07/25/2013 3:09:14 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: markomalley

Yes! He’s absolutely right. But one of the reasons the politicians like drugs is that a stoned or drugged people is a compliant and easily dominated people.

As long as the drugs keep flowing (also giving substantial amounts of money to the politicians and the already wealthy) the people stay in their stupor. People (men, at least) are stoned all the time in most Muslim countries, and I think that is one of the things that makes it possible for them to tolerate such dysfunctional societies.


3 posted on 07/25/2013 3:10:58 AM PDT by livius
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To: Biggirl
“A reduction in the spread and influence of drug addiction will not be achieved by a liberalisation of drug use, as is currently being proposed in various parts of Latin America,”

Thats not the goal of the re-legalization movement - its to prevent the black market armies from devastating the neighborhoods. Let those who do not exercise responsibility suffer and let those who do live without fear of armed thug gangs.

But seeing as how the bloodshed and corruption of cops and politicians is still preferred by certain folks then the let the blood flow.

Pain is a gift from God - its all about how much of it one must suffer until learning comes.

4 posted on 07/25/2013 3:29:56 AM PDT by corkoman
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To: corkoman

At least Pope Francis is taking a tough stand.


5 posted on 07/25/2013 3:40:13 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

I’m not quite sure it’s a tough stand. Sounds more like going with the flow to me.

I’ll bet politicians get quite some money from gangsters to keep drugs illegal. So going against that would be the tough stand, in Latin America or the US.


6 posted on 07/25/2013 4:06:59 AM PDT by MetaThought
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To: markomalley
Why not force people to attend church at gunpoint? You choose for them under the same penalty for other things.

When you deny anyone their freedom, you become their jailer/slave owner.

You have much in common with islam, when you own slaves / imprison people that disagree, and do not follow your directives.

7 posted on 07/25/2013 4:22:09 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: markomalley

Perhaps this Pope can enforce some church discipline for the faithful who will not adhere to Catholic doctrine and teachings, Expell anyone who publicly supports abortion.

once he does that I may staft to listen to him lecture the rest of us on how to write governemnt enforced laws.

it sounds to me like a man he who cannot persuade you to follow his morality so he will have the governemt, at the point of a gun, enforce it for you him. There is no courage or toughness in this proclamation.


8 posted on 07/25/2013 4:35:41 AM PDT by FreedomNotSafety
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To: Biggirl

Amen.


9 posted on 07/25/2013 4:57:05 AM PDT by FES0844
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To: markomalley
The idea is not to “liberalise drug use” but instead to fight the problem on the demand side by educating people and treating addicts.

Right now we basically have addicts roaming the streets, causing thousands of dollars in damage to buy a few dollars worth of product from violent gangsters. Even giving them free drugs and cot for life would be a better policy than what we have now. It would eliminate theft by addicts and stop giving money to gangs/cartels. The WOD only creates an army of addict thieves who steal for the dealers.

The product costs pennies to make in the jungle or any private room and sells for more than gold in the streets. The chance of getting caught is extremely low since there are no victims to report a crime. Even in countries that have death penalty for dealers, there is no shortage of poor people risking their lives to get very rich. For that reason, it can NEVER be stopped.

All attempts at ramping up the WOD on the supply side will simply result in more profits for bootleggers, more government corruption and less rights for us. But hey, maybe that was the plan all along...

10 posted on 07/25/2013 5:19:54 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: Biggirl
At least Pope Francis is taking a tough stand.

How is that tough? To support corruption and violence? How about holding people to their individual responsibility?

That's a tougher road - the weak look for Government to protect them "from themselves".

11 posted on 07/25/2013 5:57:24 AM PDT by corkoman
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To: markomalley
There are two ways to alter a person's behavior. Persuasion or force. The Pope supposedly represents the way of Jesus. Did Jesus use force, or persuasion?

40 years of the war on drugs has shown how ineffective force is at modifying behavior. Drugs are cheaper, more potent and more widely available than before Nixon declared war.

Pope Francis should teach morals. Force of arms is not the way.

12 posted on 07/25/2013 6:07:42 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: markomalley

The anti-God/anti-Christian libertarians seem to have shown up on this thread to fight their war for the left.

Unfortunately the Catholic church seems to agree with immigration, which of course for Americans, leads to the rest of the libertarian agenda being voted on and passed.

The agenda:
Throw open the borders completely; only a rare individual (terrorist, disease carrier etc.) can be kept from freedom of movement through “political boundaries”, eliminate the Border Patrol and INS.

Homosexuals; total freedom in the military, gay marriage, adoption, child custody and everything else.

Abortion; zero restrictions or impediments full 9 months.

Pornography; no restraint, no restrictions.

Drugs; Meth, Heroin, Crack, and anything new that science and marketers can come up with, zero restrictions.

Advertising those drugs, prostitution, and pornography; zero restrictions.


13 posted on 07/25/2013 8:35:44 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12
Read my post 10 and explain how you would fight a WOD. The policy today is not doing much except making dope kings some of the richest men on the planet. Perhaps unofficially even THE richest men on the planet.

Until we have a complete police state and 24/7 surveillance of everyone, fighting drugs on the supply side will do nothing but increase profits for violent bootleggers and take our freedom away.

Even with that police state I don't think it will do anything. Governments are always corrupt so drug sales will continue under that police state with even greater profits for their dope runner buddies.

The amount of money made from bootlegging is so incredible that it controls entire nations and probably has a great influence on ours! (See Fast&Furious, Mena Arkansas, Greg Bell, Nicaragua Contras, the CIA-linked jet that crashed with $billions of cocaine in Mexico, etc, etc, etc). It's obvious that our government is involved with the drug market at high levels.

Do you really want to continue this charade?

14 posted on 07/25/2013 12:24:25 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: ansel12
>"The anti-God/anti-Christian libertarians seem to have shown up on this thread to fight their war for the left."

Read your Bible. Do you understand what God means when he says "Behold"?

Does it mean, ignore, rationalize away, or Pay attention this is IMPORTANT?

The Creator gave mankind a gift. You can choose NOT to accept this gift. That is up to YOU. Please do NOT CHOOSE FOR ME.


http://biblehub.com/genesis/1-29.htm
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed,

You take away what God himself has given, and YOU call others anti-God?

If people were free again to grow their own, there would be no black market. The Police State would not be throwing grenades at children in their beds in the middle of the night!

15 posted on 07/25/2013 12:28:05 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: rawcatslyentist

You write like you are high right now, and trying to tell us that God wants us to get stoned on hashish and pot, the drug of the Arabs and Muslims, is laughable.


16 posted on 07/25/2013 12:31:14 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12

The Pope is correct on this issue


17 posted on 07/25/2013 12:32:04 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: varyouga

Incredible, this thread about the Pope really is just another pro-crack thread to the dopers.


18 posted on 07/25/2013 12:33:13 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: rawcatslyentist
Here ... enjoy this nice salad ...

Those lovely greens are the leaves of the rhubarb, belladonna, and diffenbachia. Those lovely red berries come from the Jack-in-the-Pulpit ... I made sure to include some hyacinth bulbs, too.

Jus' sayin ...

19 posted on 07/25/2013 12:41:47 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ansel12
To you, apparently, it's a thread about the Pope.

To the libertines, apparently, it's a thread about legalizing drugs (or not).

Let's see, here ...

What was ol' Franky talking about, again?

20 posted on 07/25/2013 12:43:30 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
If you have not the skill to differentiate the uses of herbs, You should leave salad making up to professionals!

Take away what God himself has given. Do you not fear nor respect him?

21 posted on 07/25/2013 12:55:20 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: ansel12

Apparently you will not read nor comprehend the Word of God.


22 posted on 07/25/2013 12:56:24 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: rawcatslyentist

So ... you eatin’ that salad or not?


23 posted on 07/25/2013 12:59:54 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
>"So ... you eatin’ that salad or not?"

You made it YOU EAT IT!

I on the other hand do know the difference between toxic and NON TOXIC plants!

Do you not know? He made all things with a purpose.

I'd rather trust his medicine than the rat poisons the FDA offers!

24 posted on 07/25/2013 1:06:09 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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Did I say offers??

Silly me. I meant leaves you no choice at the point of a gun!

25 posted on 07/25/2013 1:07:17 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: rawcatslyentist
You made it YOU EAT IT!

ROFL!!!

I'm not the one who thinks every 'herb that bears seeds' is edible.

I'd rather trust his medicine than the rat poisons the FDA offers!

Have fun storming the castle.

26 posted on 07/25/2013 1:16:48 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ansel12
This is a thread about the Pope discussing drugs. I'm NOT “pro-crack” or “pro-drug” or for “liberlizing drug use”.

I'm simply stating the facts of how pointless and corrupting a supply-side drug war is and how it ROBS ALL OF OUR FREEDOMS. And even if we handed away all of our freedoms, drug abuse would STILL continue.

ALL it does is increase profits for violent criminals, increase corruption and enlists an army of addicts to steal from us.

Now, dont call me a doper and explain what should be done. Even the death penalty doesnt work for reasons I explained in post 10. I'm all ears, FRiend...

27 posted on 07/25/2013 1:19:45 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga

Yeah, Ted Kennedy was personally opposed to abortion, he just wanted it legal, and he argued for legalization of the thing that he was opposed to.


28 posted on 07/25/2013 3:08:13 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12
What are you talking about?

IF it was possible to reduce drug abuse without sacrificing our God-given rights, I would be for prohibition. But it's NOT possible and prohibition has done NOTHING but make certain people rich at the expense of ALL our property and rights.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean there needs to be a law against it. ALL laws have unintended consequences and the WOD probably came with the worst.

Again, entire nations are under the control of the illegal drug industry because prohibition makes these otherwise worthless chemicals more valuable than gold.

29 posted on 07/25/2013 4:04:37 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga

I think that we can find a way to enforce laws against child porn, drugs, counterfeiting, sex trafficking, child sex, and so on.


30 posted on 07/25/2013 4:13:56 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ArrogantBustard
>"I'm not the one who thinks every 'herb that bears seeds' is edible.

Yet you "ASS u Me" I do?

There are more forms of slavery than openly meet the eye.

Unjust incarceration is a BIG ONE! How do you justify enslaving your brother for a flower?

31 posted on 07/25/2013 5:26:54 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: ansel12
Drugs are a unique case due to complete lack of a victim to report the crime. Less than 1% of drug sales are impacted by law enforcement. A far smaller percentage of drug use is detected by law enforcement.

Many drugs can be made by one person and sold for more than their weight in gold. Online sales of drugs are skyrocketing due to encryption. There is absolutely NO WAY you can put a dent in a market so easy, so secret and so profitable without creating a police state with no privacy rights.

Even then, the market price will go high enough to simply pay off law enforcement and politicians. It is literally more profitable than growing money on trees. If you've been paying attention, you'd see some of the highest levels of our government have been obviously bought by the Sinaloa cartel. There is so much money involved that it is more difficult for dealers to hide the money than the drugs.

The end result of any attempts to increase this war will be a police state with absolutely no reduction in drug use and more profit for dealers. Is that what you want?

32 posted on 07/25/2013 9:31:33 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga

LOL, you pro-dope guys can go on forever with the nonsense, in your drive to remove the obstacles to drugs overwhelming America.


33 posted on 07/25/2013 9:41:22 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12
I'm simply explaining the uncontrollable market forces and futility of drug enforcement as we know it. You also obviously cannot comprehend the quantity and power of the money involved.

With a supply side WOD, drugs WILL overwhelm America. You really think the purpose of this “war” is to actually reduce drug use?

The true purpose is to control the market by being able to destroy competitors at will. The “right” people will ALWAYS continue to sell drugs unimpeded.

Not only that. The money is also used to promote drug use through media. Why do you think we have nonsense “antidrug” campaigns that are stupid and subconsciously encourage drug use? These campaigns are no different from “sex ed”- a way to get kids interested early.

The entire WOD is a lie and a complete failure at everything it was “supposed” to do. But it was a complete success at increasing drug profits and sales to the point where cartels have global power. We spent $1 Trillion of taxpayer money and drugs are now more available and more pure than ever.

Don't believe me? Dress up and walk into a nice club in a major city. The dealers will be wearing $5000 suits and will hand you their business card. Any drug you want will be delivered to your door faster than pizza. All of these drug rings give kickbacks to police and have their own “territory” that they bid for. Police take care of the competition to keep profit sky high.

The cartels do the exact same thing but on a global level with billions of dollars.

Wake up and look at the big picture, FRiend

34 posted on 07/25/2013 10:26:58 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: ansel12
>"in your drive to remove the obstacles to drugs overwhelming America."

Your WOD sure worked pretty well with Trademark and Rochell.

The do gooder FASCISTS claim it's all the herbs fault. Well it's NOT. If tradymark could have been allowed to have a flower garden, he would have developed an interest in AGRICULTURE! (just horrible.... shudder....) Go ahead and tell me he wouldn't have!

He would not have turned to LEGAL DRUG USE! His drug of choice was a LEGAL ONE!

Legal drugs have created a DEADLY NEW ENTERPRISE to skirt prohibition laws.

LEGAL DRUGS Zombie drugs! Every day a new powder/incense/bath salt with a different formula comes out JUST BECAUSE OF PROHIBITION! Cough medicine abuse. Tylenol POISONING!

You blame the flower, but it was the individual! It's ALWAYS up to the INDIVIDUAL. Declaring WAR against your brother does NOT CHANGE THE FACT "It's ALWAYS up to the INDIVIDUAL.". Even limiting his choices to POISON do not change that fact!

Cannabis is NOT A VIOLENT DRUG! It is more of a sedative relaxant pain reliever. It cost almost nothing to produce, and just about everyone can produce it. Yet the POISON PILL PRODUCERS have jinked your brain into trusting them instead of our Father in Heaven.

God gives freedom! Man gives death and slavery.

Choose wisely, choose life!

35 posted on 07/25/2013 11:10:29 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: rawcatslyentist

pot is just as bad as any of them, mainly because they get convinced its harmless by liberaltopian freaks


36 posted on 07/25/2013 11:14:57 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: varyouga

You really do sound like a stoner with all your made up gibberish.


37 posted on 07/25/2013 11:52:02 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: rawcatslyentist

I’m convinced that you do some LSD as well, judging from that post.


38 posted on 07/25/2013 11:53:30 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12
ohn 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

What, or Who's in your heart? Brother.

39 posted on 07/26/2013 12:29:28 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: GeronL
>pot is just as bad "

Really? How do you know? Are you ...... one of them??????

Either you speak out of the knowledge of experience, or .....you don't really know. Just what you've been told.

God doesn't really mean what he said. Does he?

Whom do you trust?

40 posted on 07/26/2013 12:37:24 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: rawcatslyentist

If you think God told us to smoke pot, you need to be in an asylum


41 posted on 07/26/2013 12:39:02 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: rawcatslyentist

I definitely do not trust potheads and those who want our kids using drugs, those people should be shot


42 posted on 07/26/2013 12:39:50 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

If you think he just dumped us here with no relief from the miseries of this world you don’t think much of him.


43 posted on 07/26/2013 1:50:10 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: ansel12
Feel free to dispute a single thing I said without calling me a “stoner”. I've done 10+ years of research on government drug policy and can help you connect the dots too.

You can see for yourself if you want. Dress up. Go to a nice club. You'll see what a laughable farce the WOD is.

And there's not a damn thing that can be done through brute force because the money is so easy that people gamble their lives for it.

You are the fool for accepting our corrupt government's BS and handing over your rights for the illusion of safety. The WOD is nothing but a system to transfer incredible amounts of wealth from ALL of us into the hands of dealers and corrupt cops.

44 posted on 07/26/2013 5:02:57 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: GeronL; rawcatslyentist

God gave us ALL plants. It is our job to study and figure out their purpose.

I don’t think God intended for us to close the book on any plants just because certain idiots use them to get high.

Even opium, one of the most addictive and toxic pants on this planet is allowed to be researched. Why not “pot”?

There is more and more evidence that compounds found in “pot” can actually inhibit the growth of cancer, provide pain relief without toxic opiates and stimulate the appetite better than any other drug. If it was actually legal for study in the US(worlds #1 drug researcher), there is no telling how many other purposes would be discovered.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22776349

http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2013/06/in-case-you-missed-it-government-confirms-and-reports-that-marijuana-prevents-or-cures-certain-cancers.html?m=1

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm


45 posted on 07/26/2013 5:30:01 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: rawcatslyentist

I can honestly say that I have never seen your approach to pushing drug use, people must be really surprised to hear your street preaching of I order you to use drugs in the name of Christ.


46 posted on 07/26/2013 8:06:02 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: varyouga

Like many drug people, you threw out a mass of everything from conspiracies to your belief of a tree that grows money.

No one wants to waste time with some hyped up scatter brained druggie who makes no sense and who lives for a chance to make his goofy ramblings.


47 posted on 07/26/2013 8:10:17 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12

“Like many drug people, you threw out a mass of everything from conspiracies to your belief of a tree that grows money.”

Again, give me some facts to counter my arguments. So far you haven’t done a single thing beyond name calling or generalizations.

-You haven’t heard of Fast & Furious?

-You really think the open border to Mexico is an accident, incompetence, or simply to get cheap labor?

-Look at the “dark alliance” between the CIA and drug traffickers. The journalist that exposed this was found dead of a “suicide” with 2 gunshots to the head - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb

-A Gulfstream III private jet with tail number N987SA crashed in Mexico with several TONS of cocaine. The same jet was exposed by European journalists as an aircraft used by the CIA for flights to Guantanamo. FAA records were quickly scrubbed and no longer match European flight data. WHY? http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20070924-0

-US government is involved with and “manages” drug trafficking: http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/12247-cia-%E2%80%9Cmanages%E2%80%9D-drug-trade-mexican-official-says

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/high-ranking-mexican-drug-cartel-member-makes-explosive-allegation-fast-and-furious-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/cia.html

-Again, there is so much profit that you literally have money trees. Good pot is cheaper to grow than basil yet it is worth more than its weight in $20 bills! Other drugs are FAR more expensive and some even exceed the price of gold. Some drugs don’t even need plants and can be synthesized by any decent chemist for pennies. You can literaly create a product more valuable than gold in your bedroom!


48 posted on 07/26/2013 9:02:55 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: ansel12
Brother, like all gifts of God. You don't have to accept it.

I would plea to your Christian side for forgiveness,and to stop persecuting your brother into slavery.

49 posted on 07/26/2013 9:43:49 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: markomalley

Gotta ping placemark.


50 posted on 07/27/2013 1:09:28 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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